ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Page 37 of 40 Previous  1 ... 20 ... 36, 37, 38, 39, 40  Next

Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 18 Dec - 19:27

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:We shall see when it comes to the romance, though it would be such a wasted opportunity if they didn't go all the way (figuratively speaking) with these two characters. If the ST cast and writers had done the PT, it would've sold the central romance/tragedy far more convincingly.

In regards to VIII links, the big one for the Force plot has to be the relic hunting and whatever Luke was up to with Ben as his apprentice links back to the Empire stripping the Jedha temple of crystals and Chirrut belonging to the order responsible for guarding the temple:

How the Character Chirrut in ‘Rogue One’ May Have a Direct Connection to ‘The Force Awakens’

Jyn asks Cassian (Diego Luna) what the deal is with Churrut, and and Cassian says Chirrut is one of the “Guardians of the Whills” who was responsible for protecting the temple on Jedha. Except the Imperials have pillaged the temple and otherwise wrecked it, which is why Chirrut and his buddy Baze (Jiang Wen) are just kind of hanging out in the corner.

Why does that matter? This manner of pulling from old of ideas is exactly what’s happening with the Guardians of the Whills, a Force-devoted group that is responsible for protecting the Temple of the Whills, which is the now-pillaged temple Cassian was referring to. To that end, the Guardians created that incredible laser bowcaster (known as the lightbow) that Chirrut Imwe uses in “Rogue One.”

So the thing about the temple and the city, Jedha City, in which is resides, is that it’s considered to be a sort of holy place for Force users and others who held the Force in high regard. A Mecca, as it were (all the cosmetic similarities to the real Mecca are not coincidental). So it was important to the Jedi back when they were around, and they stored a whole bunch of Kyber crystals there. Which the Imperials are now taking to use to power the Death Star’s superlaser.

But the Jedi weren’t the only Force-revering group that held Jedha, and the Temple of the Whills, in high esteem. Many others did as well, including one called the Church of the Force. And in “Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” we met one very notable member of that church: Lor San Tekka. Now, that name may not mean much to you since it wasn’t spoken in the movie, but you’ll probably remember him he was the character played by Max von Sydow — he was the old man who gave Poe Dameron the map to Luke Skywalker’s hideout at the beginning of the movie. Remember this guy?

This is a key connection. It’s a safe bet that Lor San Tekka — who had been, according to the “Star Wars: The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary,” an adherent to the Church of the Force even back during the days of the Empire — had been to Jedha at some point before it was destroyed. He may have even known Chirrut personally.

We do know that San Tekka, who was a galactic explorer, met Luke not long after the events of “Return of the Jedi,” as the Star Wars Databank notes that he helped Luke recover old Jedi artifacts and lore. San Tekka did so because of his religious beliefs — he thought that the Jedi Order was necessary to keep the Force in balance. So he wanted to help Luke rebuild the Order.

It would seem as though these newly introduced Guardians of the Whills could turn out an important group of players at this point. Their Jedha temple and the city it stood in were both key locations in “Rogue One,” and with their actual abilities remaining up in the air (outside of making sick laser crossbows, of course), it’s going to be interesting to see how they play alongside other Force-fanatic factions with a much darker side, like the Knights of Ren from the new saga film trilogy and the Acolytes of the Beyond from Chuck Wendig’s “Star Wars: Aftermath” novel.
@snufkin

That's interesting about LST. I hadn't seen that anywhere else before--I wonder where the article got that bit from.

There was that comment from Pablo a while back about how re-starting the Jedi order wasn't necessarily Luke's plan, but someone else's plan. Perhaps it was LST's? And to take it one step further, maybe LST somehow (perhaps unwittingly) became the connection to Snoke?
@ISeeAnIsland

I had the same thought about LST upon reading this too ... Also, remember that bit in Bloodline where Leia couldn't reach Ben and Luke because of some kind of "radiation" interference.  Well think about it ... Tarkin wouldn't let Krennic blow up the whole planet/moon because he didn't want Krennic getting all that credit.  (Too bad that had Tarkin not interfered and Krennic had been able to the blow up the whole planet/moon, Jyn probably wouldn't have been able to get off with Galen's message and Tarkin would have lived because Luke never would have been there ... but what goes around comes around. Twisted Evil ).  But back to the partial destruction of the Jedha planet/moon.  Since it wasn't blown up at it's core, it's conceivable that there would be somewhere there for Ben and Luke to land there at a future date.  And would the Jedi and/or the Whills have had *everything* in the city? There seemed to be all those ruins ... like maybe there had been an older city ... So what if Luke and Ben were actually there?  What if kyber survives the Death Star and they were looking for kyber or something else? But what if the intense power residue of the kyber actually affects people mentally (Galen definitely had some issues in Catalyst) and this could have led to a mental deterioration of both Ben and Luke? This is totally speculation of course ... but they made the point that only the city was destroyed.
SoloSideCousin
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4735
Likes : 22918
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 18 Dec - 19:48

@Darth Dingbat wrote:I didn't remember how scared, though resigned, they actually looked in the end. *sobs loudly*
@Darth Dingbat

*Sobbing right with you!* OMG!  I need to see this movie again!!!  Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is still the best character SW ever created and is still my all-time favorite by far, but OMG, I love Cassian and Jyn!!! I *loved* everybody, even Krennic, because a slimy guy just like him would be in charge of the Death Star (also, Krennic was a total bait and switch from the marketing department IMO to distract everybody from the significant Vader and Tarkin appearances IMO).  But the whole "Cassian and Jyn" thing is killing me with the "what might have been".  Both were damaged and hurt by life and both had become hardened until this experience and commitment they made together brought them both to this incredible and heroic point where they both gave their whole heart and soul and vulnerability to this near impossible goal ... and all they get is a few stolen moments when they both deserved so much more.  They were so incredibly suited and so equal.  Both of them saved each other.  If we could get this kind of equal meeting of the minds/radical honesty ("Yes, I was going to kill your father, but I didn't did I?" and "I've done really disgusting things for this reason and if it's all meaningless now, I will be completely lost" (paraphrasing)) with Rey and Kylo, I would be so happy.  Sure Kylo might be misguided, but he might have a reasoning that Rey can understand.  Jyn could accept Cassian because she wasn't a cinnamon roll ... Rey will be able to "get" and maybe "accept" Kylo if some of her "cinnamon roll" aura with certain swathes of the audience could be put to rest.
SoloSideCousin
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4735
Likes : 22918
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 18 Dec - 20:17

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:I didn't remember how scared, though resigned, they actually looked in the end. *sobs loudly*
@Darth Dingbat

*Sobbing right with you!* OMG!  I need to see this movie again!!!  Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is still the best character SW ever created and is still my all-time favorite by far, but OMG, I love Cassian and Jyn!!! I *loved* everybody, even Krennic, because a slimy guy just like him would be in charge of the Death Star (also, Krennic was a total bait and switch from the marketing department IMO to distract everybody from the significant Vader and Tarkin appearances IMO).  But the whole "Cassian and Jyn" thing is killing me with the "what might have been".  Both were damaged and hurt by life and both had become hardened until this experience and commitment they made together brought them both to this incredible and heroic point where they both gave their whole heart and soul and vulnerability to this near impossible goal ... and all they get is a few stolen moments when they both deserved so much more.  They were so incredibly suited and so equal.  Both of them saved each other.  If we could get this kind of equal meeting of the minds/radical honesty ("Yes, I was going to kill your father, but I didn't did I?" and "I've done really disgusting things for this reason and if it's all meaningless now, I will be completely lost" (paraphrasing)) with Rey and Kylo, I would be so happy.  Sure Kylo might be misguided, but he might have a reasoning that Rey can understand.  Jyn could accept Cassian because she wasn't a cinnamon roll ... Rey will be able to "get" and maybe "accept" Kylo if some of her "cinnamon roll" aura with certain swathes of the audience could be put to rest.
@SoloSideCousin

Couldn't agree more on all of this. Cassian and Jyn... I love them, and I think I'm going to love them more and more on subsequent viewings.

Vader was awesome, but as a villain, Tarkin totally stole the film as far as I'm concerned. It helps, of course, that I wasn't distracted by the CGI at all Laughing It took me about five seconds to suspend disbelief, heh.

RO has definitely enriched the OT for me. Not only did it make the Rebellion seem more "real" and the stakes higher, it made the Death Star personal.

That approaching white light just stunned me in the cinema.
Darth Dingbat
Darth Dingbat
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4554
Likes : 30457
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by panki on Sun 18 Dec - 20:30

RO had only limited theatre release here in India and only in English (TFA had hindi releases too....which were horribly dubbed Evil or Very Mad ), possibly because they were worried about audience reaction...but they need not have worried...this sort of gritty emotional movie does really well here. I was so surprised to hear most of the audience applaud (normally happens only for really successful local movies or Hollywood movies like Iron Man, Star Trek)and quite a few even stood up cheering. SW might have actually made its first successful inroad here with the GA (not just crazy fans like me).

I might be in the minority here but I liked RO as much as I liked TFA.....there were things where RO fell short and there were things where TFA fell short as well.

For instance, I absolutely hate the number of mystery boxes TFA has left us with....all it has done is create bad blood among different factions of fans and at the end of the day, some group is going to be terribly unhappy since they have been holding on to a favourite theory/headcanon for nearly 2 years.

Similarly, my issue with RO is that I feel some of the characters would be better appreciated by people who read Catalyst before watching the movie...especially Krennic....a person who hadn't read the novel wouldn't appreciate the Tarkin-Krennic interactions or Krennic's desperation for approval ...and they wouldn't see the irony in Krennic getting killed by the DS on Scarif. I also felt especially bad for Saw who seems half crazy from the years of fighting and suffering...and has changed so much from the tough young rebel we saw on Onderon in the TCW arc. While reading or watching other media is not necessary, it definitely enhanced my viewing experience.

But this aside, I loved how they developed the RO characters and I felt sad when each of the characters died....which makes me feel that no character is safe, whether in the trilogy or the standalones.....maybe they wanted to test audience response to grittiness (which you normally find in SW comics and some novels) and the experiment was definitely a success...after seeing this movie, I'm actually comfortable with Rey spending some time on the dark side...and with a good story, might even be ready for character deaths.

I loved Jyn and Cassian's romance and felt so sad thinking of what could have been and I felt their chemistry was one of the best we've seen in SW to date and those looks they gave one another.... you'd keep hoping they'd do something- a hug or a kiss or even just hold hands....aaaargh Mad  (hopefully Rey-Kylo should be even more) .....Cassian also reminded me a little of Ventress....especially in the beginning when he kills the rebel informant (there is an identical scene in Dark Disciple) and the scene with the binoculars and sniper weapon on EADU (like scenes from her being a bounty hunter). However, my favourites in the movie were Chirrut and K2SO.....both their death scenes were really sad and heroic....I didn't get time to dwell on Bodhi's death scene and maybe even Baze's death since they happened so abruptly.

I asked my husband what he felt about RO vs. TFA and he had an interesting take on it....he felt it was unfair to compare the special effects because technology changes a lot in a year so his comparison was solely on the movie characters....going by that, he liked the characters in both movies but RO won out on story....he is not sure what to make of Kylo as yet though he was disappointed since he went to the theatre expecting Vader v.2 and it didn't happen...he liked the TFA story but none of the characters made a deep impact on him though he was upset by Han's death since he always liked Han in the OT (ESB is his favourite movie)...... and even the battle scenes themselves.....he felt they were a bit too kid friendly in older movies but this time they got it right. When you see the movie, you know there is a war going on. In the case of old SW movies, he felt that some characters and scenarios fell short.....for instance, Vader in the PT and OT is supposed to be this really powerful character that should inspire fear in the audience....or a man torn by power and love.....but Vader always came across as a little comical to him....until this time in RO when he showed how intimidating he could be (even in the Krennic scene).

On a completely separate note, wouldn't it be interesting if the kyber Jyn wore on her neck actually belongs to Rey? Scarif only had surface damage and Kybers survive explosions so it might still be there, waiting to be claimed.....maybe Rey will make her lightsaber using that crystal....it would be a nice way to connect RO to the ST.


Last edited by panki on Sun 18 Dec - 21:25; edited 1 time in total

panki
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3345
Likes : 12489
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 18 Dec - 20:44

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:I didn't remember how scared, though resigned, they actually looked in the end. *sobs loudly*
@Darth Dingbat

*Sobbing right with you!* OMG!  I need to see this movie again!!!  Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is still the best character SW ever created and is still my all-time favorite by far, but OMG, I love Cassian and Jyn!!! I *loved* everybody, even Krennic, because a slimy guy just like him would be in charge of the Death Star (also, Krennic was a total bait and switch from the marketing department IMO to distract everybody from the significant Vader and Tarkin appearances IMO).  But the whole "Cassian and Jyn" thing is killing me with the "what might have been".  Both were damaged and hurt by life and both had become hardened until this experience and commitment they made together brought them both to this incredible and heroic point where they both gave their whole heart and soul and vulnerability to this near impossible goal ... and all they get is a few stolen moments when they both deserved so much more.  They were so incredibly suited and so equal.  Both of them saved each other.  If we could get this kind of equal meeting of the minds/radical honesty ("Yes, I was going to kill your father, but I didn't did I?" and "I've done really disgusting things for this reason and if it's all meaningless now, I will be completely lost" (paraphrasing)) with Rey and Kylo, I would be so happy.  Sure Kylo might be misguided, but he might have a reasoning that Rey can understand.  Jyn could accept Cassian because she wasn't a cinnamon roll ... Rey will be able to "get" and maybe "accept" Kylo if some of her "cinnamon roll" aura with certain swathes of the audience could be put to rest.
@SoloSideCousin

Couldn't agree more on all of this. Cassian and Jyn... I love them, and I think I'm going to love them more and more on subsequent viewings.

Vader was awesome, but as a villain, Tarkin totally stole the film as far as I'm concerned. It helps, of course, that I wasn't distracted by the CGI at all  Laughing It took me about five seconds to suspend disbelief, heh.

RO has definitely enriched the OT for me. Not only did it make the Rebellion seem more "real" and the stakes higher, it made the Death Star personal.

That approaching white light just stunned me in the cinema.
@Darth Dingbat

I agree.
I'am still reluctant of rating the movie or characters inside SW unvierse.
I have been inside now for more than 30 years and it's really hard for me to place R1 in some sort of valuation. (For example if you asked me about my favorite character when I was nine - I would say Luke without hesitation).
I have like a ton of emotions towards SW.

However the grown up in me says something in a vein that both Jyn and Cassian as stand alone characters in a stand alone SW movie - are now ranked very, very high in my mind.

Also, I think that Rogue One is a sort of slow-burner. I have noticed interesting characters and the compelling story at my first few, however blue milk and Princess Leia made my heart jump. (Not to mention fan-orgasmic Darth Vader ultimate bada**ery).

As for Tarkin and Krennic and villain situation in the movie overall. Basically I think that the same thing happened as in TFA with Finn!Jedi hints in the marketing process.
They were probably afraid that promoting Vader and revolutionary CGI-ed Tarkin would be premature - they both were a sort of surprises.
As well, on the contrary to Krennic, who is definitely a part of R1 grey, very human, troubled characters - both Vader and Tarkin, no matter how cool they look - are old fashioned one-dimensional villains from 1977.


Last edited by Darth_Awakened on Mon 19 Dec - 18:24; edited 1 time in total
Darth_Awakened
Darth_Awakened
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4457
Likes : 22094
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 18 Dec - 21:05

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:I didn't remember how scared, though resigned, they actually looked in the end. *sobs loudly*
@Darth Dingbat

*Sobbing right with you!* OMG!  I need to see this movie again!!!  Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is still the best character SW ever created and is still my all-time favorite by far, but OMG, I love Cassian and Jyn!!! I *loved* everybody, even Krennic, because a slimy guy just like him would be in charge of the Death Star (also, Krennic was a total bait and switch from the marketing department IMO to distract everybody from the significant Vader and Tarkin appearances IMO).  But the whole "Cassian and Jyn" thing is killing me with the "what might have been".  Both were damaged and hurt by life and both had become hardened until this experience and commitment they made together brought them both to this incredible and heroic point where they both gave their whole heart and soul and vulnerability to this near impossible goal ... and all they get is a few stolen moments when they both deserved so much more.  They were so incredibly suited and so equal.  Both of them saved each other.  If we could get this kind of equal meeting of the minds/radical honesty ("Yes, I was going to kill your father, but I didn't did I?" and "I've done really disgusting things for this reason and if it's all meaningless now, I will be completely lost" (paraphrasing)) with Rey and Kylo, I would be so happy.  Sure Kylo might be misguided, but he might have a reasoning that Rey can understand.  Jyn could accept Cassian because she wasn't a cinnamon roll ... Rey will be able to "get" and maybe "accept" Kylo if some of her "cinnamon roll" aura with certain swathes of the audience could be put to rest.
@SoloSideCousin

Couldn't agree more on all of this. Cassian and Jyn... I love them, and I think I'm going to love them more and more on subsequent viewings.

Vader was awesome, but as a villain, Tarkin totally stole the film as far as I'm concerned. It helps, of course, that I wasn't distracted by the CGI at all  Laughing It took me about five seconds to suspend disbelief, heh.

RO has definitely enriched the OT for me. Not only did it make the Rebellion seem more "real" and the stakes higher, it made the Death Star personal.

That approaching white light just stunned me in the cinema.
@Darth Dingbat

I so agree with everything.  When I saw Tarkin, I literally said "Holy S***" aloud, lol. I didn't expect the CGI to be all that good, so when I was saw him and heard Peter Cushing's voice (or the most incredible mimic ever), I was just blown away.  If you watch ANH without thinking of the other movies, Tarkin is *the guy in charge*.  I remember my mother saying that in ANH Vader just seemed like a kind of "Lucca Brazzi"/enforcer type to her, like he was Tarkin's pit bull.  The movie even reinforces this with Leia saying "holding Vader's leash".  Further, I remember that back in 1980 my parents had the impression that Vader got a big boost in power in ESB because everyone else in the Empire power structure but the Emperor had died on the Death Star.  Vader comes across as more important in RO than he did in the original ANH, but Tarkin is *never* afraid of Vader ... not in the books, not in ANH, not in RO.  He is the big dog.

In addition, Tarkin's ambition and strategizing has no equal.  Krennic might be a slimy ambitious dude, but he is just completely outclassed and outfoxed by Tarkin.  (I don't know if you read Catalyst but his Tarkin/Krennic thing goes way back).  Vader, staying pretty true to ANH, seems pretty uninterested in the Death Star and seems happy to screw with Krennic a bit, but basically let the whole thing play out, because given the fact that Vader never choked Tarkin and Krennic seemed pretty unnerved by Vader, I'm sure Vader knew who was going to win out in the end.

And it has absolutely made the Rebellion and the Death Star so real to me as well.  The whole "only got the plans out by the skin of their teeth" thing really has stayed with me.  How many people had to work together, how many people had to die ... how the guy is passing the plans through a crack in a door while Vader is 3 feet away from him killing everyone!!! I like how the Rebellion is now not all sweetness and light. Sometimes really horrible things need to be done to fight an enemy at the level of the Empire.  It sometimes takes suffering and loss and scars to the soul.  That's one of the reasons I love Cassian so much.  Real people, decent people have to stomach and do some very terrible things that they would never do if the stakes were not so high.  I also was so impressed with how they portrayed Saw.  He is what happens when you have to do these things too long.  You become the monster you are fighting.  He has so many similarities to Vader, down to the breathing.  And speaking of the breathing, at first I thought he needed oxygen.  Now I think he was huffing some kind of narcotic-ish inhalant, probably originally for pain, and it made him mad and paranoid.  He tore that off at the end, so he faced the end, that white light, as himself.

And that white light ... holy sith ... there are no words ... in a way it was gorgeous, like some "go to the light"(think of Poltergeist, lol) kind of bright light of heaven, as it was coming towards Jyn and Cassian, but in reality it is pure death, incinerating you on impact.  And when you think about it, because it's from kyber, it's the force ... mangled and twisted, yet still a terrible beauty.  This makes me think of the whole yin and yang thing with Reylo and so much else.  I think that they packed a gold mine of force information into RO and we are just scratching the surface.  I mean Chirrut says the strongest stars have hearts of kyber ... what does that mean when you think of SKB turning into a new sun? What does that mean when that is a metaphor for Kylo/Ben? What are the Whills?  Why did Chirrut have such peace when the Jedi were always so pissy? What does Chirrut still know that they forgot? I just think that there is so much there ... and that I totally have to see it again, lol! Very Happy
SoloSideCousin
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4735
Likes : 22918
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 18 Dec - 21:42

@SoloSideCousin @panki and everybody else.

I have been noticing a huge amount of different opinions on Saw so far.

Actually I liked the character very much. He's the face of real madness provoked by a war. (Unfortunately I have that experience of war in my country). Whole Saw's guerrila squad seemed so real. It was actually the first in the movie when I realized that they are doing sort to say "a full frontal" with the Rogue One.
Darth_Awakened
Darth_Awakened
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4457
Likes : 22094
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 18 Dec - 21:49

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:I didn't remember how scared, though resigned, they actually looked in the end. *sobs loudly*
@Darth Dingbat

*Sobbing right with you!* OMG!  I need to see this movie again!!!  Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is still the best character SW ever created and is still my all-time favorite by far, but OMG, I love Cassian and Jyn!!! I *loved* everybody, even Krennic, because a slimy guy just like him would be in charge of the Death Star (also, Krennic was a total bait and switch from the marketing department IMO to distract everybody from the significant Vader and Tarkin appearances IMO).  But the whole "Cassian and Jyn" thing is killing me with the "what might have been".  Both were damaged and hurt by life and both had become hardened until this experience and commitment they made together brought them both to this incredible and heroic point where they both gave their whole heart and soul and vulnerability to this near impossible goal ... and all they get is a few stolen moments when they both deserved so much more.  They were so incredibly suited and so equal.  Both of them saved each other.  If we could get this kind of equal meeting of the minds/radical honesty ("Yes, I was going to kill your father, but I didn't did I?" and "I've done really disgusting things for this reason and if it's all meaningless now, I will be completely lost" (paraphrasing)) with Rey and Kylo, I would be so happy.  Sure Kylo might be misguided, but he might have a reasoning that Rey can understand.  Jyn could accept Cassian because she wasn't a cinnamon roll ... Rey will be able to "get" and maybe "accept" Kylo if some of her "cinnamon roll" aura with certain swathes of the audience could be put to rest.
@SoloSideCousin

Couldn't agree more on all of this. Cassian and Jyn... I love them, and I think I'm going to love them more and more on subsequent viewings.

Vader was awesome, but as a villain, Tarkin totally stole the film as far as I'm concerned. It helps, of course, that I wasn't distracted by the CGI at all  Laughing It took me about five seconds to suspend disbelief, heh.

RO has definitely enriched the OT for me. Not only did it make the Rebellion seem more "real" and the stakes higher, it made the Death Star personal.

That approaching white light just stunned me in the cinema.
@Darth Dingbat

I agree.
I'am still reluctant of rating the movie or characters inside SW unvierse.
I have been inside now for more than 30 years and it's really hard for me to place R1 in some sort of valuation. (For example if you asked me about my favorite character when I was nine - I would say Luke without hesitation).
I have like a ton of emotions towards SW.

However the grown up in me says something in a vein that both Jyn and Cassian as stand alone characters in a stand alone SW movie - are now ranked very, very high in my mind.

Also, I think that Rogue One is a sort of slow-burner. I have noticed interesting characters and the compelling story at my first few, however blue milk and Princess Leia made my heart jump. (Not to mention fan-orgasmic Darth Vader ultimate bada**ery).

As for Tarkin and Krennic and villain situation in the movie overall. Basically I think that the same thing happened as in TFA with Finn!Jedi hints in the marketing process.
They were probably afraid that promoting Vader and revolutionary CGI-ed Tarkin would be premature - they both were a sort of surprises.
As well, on the contrary to Krennic, who is definitely a part of R1 grey, very human, troubled characters - both Vader and Tarkin, no matter how cool they see - are old fashioned one-dimensional villains from 1977.
@Darth_Awakened

I agree a lot with both what you and @panki and @cienaree and @Darth Dingbat have been saying above.  I understand how you don't want to compare RO and TFA, because they are very different animals because one is saga, the other not.  One is only part one of the trilogy and the other could be straightforward and just tell a story. 

I will make something of a comparison though that just applies to me personally.  IMO, none of the RO characters reached Kylo Ren/Ben Solo level, despite the fact that I thought they were all very well realized. But the Kylo character and his performance by AD are the reason I have spent an inordinate amount of time talking about SW.  IMO, he is the best characterization of any SW movie.  His scenes and those pertaining to him were like an operatic aria to me.  They just hit me at the marrow.

When my husband argued over and over with me about how TFA should have been better, should have taken more risks outside of Kylo, I basically agreed with him, but I told him that with the Kylo subliminal messaging in the comfort food of nostalgia that bigger risks were coming, that they just needed to get the audience's trust back after the prequels.  To me, RO, with the risks it took, with the complications of morality that it introduced, confirmed to me that my suspicions were right.  After seeing RO, I think Episode VIII is going to be amazing.  I mean if  the standalone was this good, forget about the next saga entry!!!

But that being said, on a straight film-vs-film, immediate end of the movie reaction, RO was better IMO.  The pacing, the plotting, the diversity of character types, the complexity of the characters, the battle scenes, the fight scenes, the level of complication, the expectation of the audience to keep up, the acting of the entire ensemble, Jyn's motivation, the realism of behavior of *all* characters (unlike some of the Kylo heavy-lifting we saw in TFA), all better.  When the credits came up on RO, there was not a doubt in my mind that this was a good movie.

When the credits came up on TFA, I knew that I had seen absolute greatness with Kylo, with Kylo and Han, with the Reylo scenes, with AD's acting, with the music, with the expansion of the meaning of the Force ... but the movie as a whole did not reach that level and IMO was an uneven product, even from the very beginning.  I remember being so relieved because SW had been redeemed as TFA, flaws and all, better than all the prequels and ROTJ and maybe even ANH in some aspects.  The whole Kylo related storyline is definitely at a higher level than ANH.  But when I saw what they did with the battle scenes, with the realism in RO ... IMO, they really could have gone so much farther with TFA.

But again, as @"Darth Awakened'' smartly reminds us, these are two different animals.  TFA was extremely constrained by the prequel legacy of problems and distrust.  It also had to be more family-friendly.  (I don't know if the rest of the sagas will be quite so family friendly.  We'll have to see. I'm thinking they won't with the stabbing of Han and slicing Kylo's face, but on that first one, TFA, they couldn't go too far afield because it would be too jarring from the GL fare). Moreover, the scripting fell apart on TFA and JJ and Kasdan had to pull that thing together in like 3 months and Disney said "no" to the additional 6 months JJ wanted.  Further, if some of the early novelizations are any indication, Lucasfilm didn't quite have their footing just yet.  But most importantly, the "baby" of the TFA, where they spent most of their attention: Kylo/Reylo/Different POV on the Force/Skywalker family failings ... that was utter brilliance.  And that brilliance is the future of the sagas.  TFA brought people home again and opened the door for the risk-taking RO and set-up an incredible foundation for an utterly outstanding Episode VIII which may very well join the realism and complexity strengths of RO with the brilliance introduced in TFA.
SoloSideCousin
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4735
Likes : 22918
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 18 Dec - 22:21

@Darth_Awakened wrote:@SoloSideCousin @panki and everybody else.

I have been noticing a huge amount of  different opinions on Saw so far.

Actually I liked the character very much. He's the face of real madness provoked by  a war. (Unfortunately I have that experience of war in my country). Whole Saw's guerrila squad seemed so real. It was actually the first in the movie when I realized that they are doing sort to say "a full frontal" with the Rogue One.
@Darth_Awakened

I agree. And I really liked Forest Whitaker's performance. It was haunting and creepy. You know, it just occurred to me that the "If you continue to fight, what will you become?" line from the trailer was probably referring to Saw himself - this is what you become if you fight all your life, even if your cause is good.

Speaking of the trailers, I watched them again, and I can't get over how misleading they were! I swear the marketing of VIII is going to drive me insane, not knowing what's misdirection and what isn't Laughing But hey, at least Jyn/Cassian was in the marketing all along, so I have some glimmer of hope... (Though the dynamic seemed totally different.)
Darth Dingbat
Darth Dingbat
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4554
Likes : 30457
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 18 Dec - 22:22

@Darth_Awakened wrote:@SoloSideCousin @panki and everybody else.

I have been noticing a huge amount of  different opinions on Saw so far.

Actually I liked the character very much. He's the face of real madness provoked by  a war. (Unfortunately I have that experience of war in my country). Whole Saw's guerrila squad seemed so real. It was actually the first in the movie when I realized that they are doing sort to say "a full frontal" with the Rogue One.
@Darth_Awakened

I thought Saw was fantastic, and I thought FW played him brilliantly.  Having seen The Last King of Scotland, I know why KK picked him for this part.  In the trailers he came across as this sad, wistful, disabled veteran type.  When he had that particular voice, I was afraid that the scenes with him might tip over into sappy.  I couldn've been more wrong.  He is absolutely the haunted face of those destroyed by war.  The paranoia, the PTSD-like symptoms, the possible substance addiction, the pained, wrecked body, the utter distrust, the sometime cruelty. 

I have been very fortunate to live in a country that has not experienced all-out war on its soil for over 150 years, so I will absolutely trust your judgment.  I know from my place of relative ignorance that it seemed very "bin Laden and company hiding out in a cave" to me.  I do not wish to compare Saw to bin Laden in any way shape or form ... but the comparison can be pertinent if you think of the original fighters who fought against the occupation of Afghanistan.  Those people were "freedom fighters" and had a just fight in many people's minds, but obviously some extreme elements grew out of those groups. 

I don't know enough about guerrilla warfare, but I know enough that this seems to be the outcome in many "rebellions".  Various groups are willing to go to different limits.  From the rebellions of my own ancestral ethnic group, the Irish, Michael Collins used targeted assassinations to bring the change he wanted ... kind of like Cassian it seems.  But when there were lines he didn't want to cross and/or he wanted to stop the fighting, another more extreme faction killed him ...and we see this kind of evolution with Saw.  I really thought it was outstanding how the showed the differing factions within the Rebellion because that is extremely realistic as there are always factions within factions and a wide spectrum of views and limits within those factions.  Saw seemed basically willing to do anything for his goal ... but there is a terrible price to be paid for that.  That makes me think of Kylo.  Will his choice be to be Cassian or to completely, madly, double-down and be like Saw?  In fact, maybe Cassian might have eventually become Saw without meeting Jyn? (Just like where Kylo might have gone without meeting Rey?) It's very interesting to think about.
SoloSideCousin
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4735
Likes : 22918
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 18 Dec - 22:37

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:@SoloSideCousin @panki and everybody else.

I have been noticing a huge amount of  different opinions on Saw so far.

Actually I liked the character very much. He's the face of real madness provoked by  a war. (Unfortunately I have that experience of war in my country). Whole Saw's guerrila squad seemed so real. It was actually the first in the movie when I realized that they are doing sort to say "a full frontal" with the Rogue One.
@Darth_Awakened

I thought Saw was fantastic, and I thought FW played him brilliantly.  Having seen The Last King of Scotland, I know why KK picked him for this part.  In the trailers he came across as this sad, wistful, disabled veteran type.  When he had that particular voice, I was afraid that the scenes with him might tip over into sappy.  I couldn've been more wrong.  He is absolutely the haunted face of those destroyed by war.  The paranoia, the PTSD-like symptoms, the possible substance addiction, the pained, wrecked body, the utter distrust, the sometime cruelty. 

I have been very fortunate to live in a country that has not experienced all-out war on its soil for over 150 years, so I will absolutely trust your judgment.  I know from my place of relative ignorance that it seemed very "bin Laden and company hiding out in a cave" to me.  I do not wish to compare Saw to bin Laden in any way shape or form ... but the comparison can be pertinent if you think of the original fighters who fought against the occupation of Afghanistan.  Those people were "freedom fighters" and had a just fight in many people's minds, but obviously some extreme elements grew out of those groups. 

I don't know enough about guerrilla warfare, but I know enough that this seems to be the outcome in many "rebellions".  Various groups are willing to go to different limits.  From the rebellions of my own ancestral ethnic group, the Irish, Michael Collins used targeted assassinations to bring the change he wanted ... kind of like Cassian it seems.  But when there were lines he didn't want to cross and/or he wanted to stop the fighting, another more extreme faction killed him ...and we see this kind of evolution with Saw.  I really thought it was outstanding how the showed the differing factions within the Rebellion because that is extremely realistic as there are always factions within factions and a wide spectrum of views and limits within those factions.  Saw seemed basically willing to do anything for his goal ... but there is a terrible price to be paid for that.  That makes me think of Kylo.  Will his choice be to be Cassian or to completely, madly, double-down and be like Saw?  In fact, maybe Cassian might have eventually become Saw without meeting Jyn? (Just like where Kylo might have gone without meeting Rey?) It's very interesting to think about.
@SoloSideCousin

Nothing wrong with your compare with Bin Laden & co., Jedha has very obvious Middle East vibe, I was rather referring to the consequences of war not the literal similarity of guerilla fighting.
Darth_Awakened
Darth_Awakened
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4457
Likes : 22094
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 18 Dec - 22:42

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:@SoloSideCousin @panki and everybody else.

I have been noticing a huge amount of  different opinions on Saw so far.

Actually I liked the character very much. He's the face of real madness provoked by  a war. (Unfortunately I have that experience of war in my country). Whole Saw's guerrila squad seemed so real. It was actually the first in the movie when I realized that they are doing sort to say "a full frontal" with the Rogue One.
@Darth_Awakened

I agree. And I really liked Forest Whitaker's performance. It was haunting and creepy. You know, it just occurred to me that the "If you continue to fight, what will you become?" line from the trailer was probably referring to Saw himself - this is what you become if you fight all your life, even if your cause is good.

Speaking of the trailers, I watched them again, and I can't get over how misleading they were! I swear the marketing of VIII is going to drive me insane, not knowing what's misdirection and what isn't Laughing But hey, at least Jyn/Cassian was in the marketing all along, so I have some glimmer of hope... (Though the dynamic seemed totally different.)
@Darth Dingbat

I so agree with you about Saw. That line is kind of the question of the movie.  Will you become like Saw or will you become like Cassian and Jyn and the rest?  With the entire RO team each member gets a chance at redemption, at meaning in life, at feeling life fully once more instead of going through it hard and numb to the end ... and maybe in Saw's case, anesthetized.  Saw is the warning.  Saw is the Rebel Vader.  The RO retained some hope, and because of meeting Jyn again, even Saw regained some of his pride and vitality and "self" at the end. 

Also, in some ways, with lines like Saw's and Krennic with "the power is immeasurable", the marketing almost conveyed some things to us beforehand, almost like we could pre-integrate them and then they wouldn't have to be covered again in the movie.  I don't know if I have ever seen that done before, but I feel like something like that is happening here.

And OMG, the marketing was as misleading as anything ... and I don't think it was all reshoots because a lot of those recent trailers that were post reshoot were just as misleading.  I mean good grief, did they film extra footage for the sole purpose of distracting people ... because they practically couldn've done a better job at surprising people, especially with Vader and Tarkin and Leia ... and just frankly so much more.  Their strategy, in all its mysterious components, worked too ... because if I'm not mistaken, nobody really figured out much of anything spoiler-wise on RO, did they?

And if RO was that tight, forget about Episode VIII!!! The Episode VIII trailers are going to mislead like nothing else before it I think.  If RO is any indication, it won't just be Kylo being uber evil or whatever, everything will be turned upside down.  I mean what footage will be "real" or actually used? It's going to be insane and they will keep us on a wild good chase, probably distracting us completely.  Like you said, all we will have is if we see particular characters in scenes together.  And with Rey and Kylo we might not even get that.  We'll have to rely on backgrounds probably (i.e. "Well there is a patch of burnt grass near Kylo in his clip and there was some burnt grass near Rey in her clip ... they must be together" Laughing).  I'll trust you and your keen sense of observation when the times comes @Darth DingbatVery Happy
SoloSideCousin
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4735
Likes : 22918
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 18 Dec - 23:55

@SoloSideCousin, our Only Hope(tm) is that they need to prepare the audience for some crucial things because the mystery box went so overboard. Hence, I'm expecting heavy FinnTran hints at the very least because John already started that FinnRey-headcanon-smashing last spring. This is why I also have a glimmer of hope that we might get something that points to non-Reywalker and even something vaguely Reylo-ish that will be mysterious enough to drive everybody crazy.

But yeah, like you I get the feeling they must have filmed additional footage just for the RO trailer, and that might be the case with VIII as well... sigh.

(I almost addressed you as SoloSideHope, btw Laughing )

It will be interesting to read the RO novelisation, by the way - it would have been written from the earlier script, so it might show what changed in the reshoots. I did tell myself I wouldn't buy any other novelisations again, but, oh well. Looks like I'm going to. At least it's not written by Alan Dean "Kylo Ren, tortured of mien, murmured anew" Foster. Laughing
Darth Dingbat
Darth Dingbat
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4554
Likes : 30457
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by ReyofLightSide on Mon 19 Dec - 3:36

Yup the pre-TFA marketing gave nothing away on Reylo. Nothing.
Ep VIII may actually try to mislead to Reywalker initially and then drop a bomb on who her family really is. Cannot wait.
ReyofLightSide
ReyofLightSide
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1100
Likes : 5988
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-31
Localisation : US

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Xylo Ren on Mon 19 Dec - 3:54

Ep VIII marketing will make Luke say something like, "There's a reason you are here." or "You are here for a purpose". Something super Reywalkery. Maybe even an "I knew you would come." and then none of the lines will be in the movie, or they'll be in another completely different context Laughing

Then if they show Kylo at all, it'll be every and any snarl or frown or lightsaber slash he does in the movie. Heck, they might even film scenes just for the trailer and then cut em. I hope they make it haunting like a Kylo voiceover of "I'm coming for you Scavenger." or "You can't hide." Anything to up the cheese Very Happy
Xylo Ren
Xylo Ren
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2029
Likes : 18387
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 19 Dec - 4:04

@Xylo Ren wrote:Ep VIII marketing will make Luke say something like, "There's a reason you are here." or "You are here for a purpose". Something super Reywalkery. Maybe even an "I knew you would come." and then none of the lines will be in the movie, or they'll be in another completely different context Laughing

Then if they show Kylo at all, it'll be every and any snarl or frown or lightsaber slash he does in the movie. Heck, they might even film scenes just for the trailer and then cut em. I hope they make it haunting like a Kylo voiceover of "I'm coming for you Scavenger." or "You can't hide." Anything to up the cheese Very Happy
@Xylo Ren

Or even Kylo pulling a RogueOne!Granpa swinging his sword like a maniac.
We must be ready for all sort of misleading.
And try to stay sane until December.
Darth_Awakened
Darth_Awakened
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4457
Likes : 22094
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by panki on Mon 19 Dec - 4:53

@Xylo Ren wrote:Ep VIII marketing will make Luke say something like, "There's a reason you are here." or "You are here for a purpose". Something super Reywalkery. Maybe even an "I knew you would come." and then none of the lines will be in the movie, or they'll be in another completely different context Laughing


Then if they show Kylo at all, it'll be every and any snarl or frown or lightsaber slash he does in the movie. Heck, they might even film scenes just for the trailer and then cut em. I hope they make it haunting like a Kylo voiceover of "I'm coming for you Scavenger." or "You can't hide." Anything to up the cheese Very Happy
@Xylo Ren

After seeing how the RO trailers differed from the movie itself, I'm expecting something similar happening for episode VIII where Kylo appears to be eviler and eviler....and then it actually yurns out to be different.

I think we'll first get a glimpse of Kylo's feet walking on Ahch-to with Snoke's angry voice in the background....."the scavenger resisted you!" ....then Kylo's voice saying something about finishing what has started....then a flash of that red lightsaber in the dark......then Luke with a surprised expression....the KOR attacking someone in the darkness.....a muddy scared looking Rey.....followed by quick shots of Phasma pinning down Finn in a fight...Hux looking up at the FO flag, with its colours reflecting in his eyes.....a ragged and shaking Poe threatening someone with a blaster....someone being force pushed and a space car exploding.....then darkness and Snoke's voice saying- the new republic is dead....the resistance is gone...and laughing.

panki
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3345
Likes : 12489
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by MindAndMagic on Mon 19 Dec - 5:51

I saw it in IMAX 3D today and thought it was quite good. Not better than TFA, just different. I liked it. I ended up being surprisingly invested in the story, which gave a whole new perspective on the events leading up to ANH. It was refreshing to see a self-contained, smaller scale plot with new characters, which expand the universe. In many ways it was one of the saddest SW films I’ve watched. Haunting and tragic on so many levels, there was an acute sense of impending doom all the way through. I like watching gritty war films in general and this felt 100% like a war film, even documentary at times with all the labels for the different locations.

Pros:
-Fantastic visuals, lots of interesting new locations, brilliantly directed action sequences (arguably better than TFA)
-I normally don't like having too many references to the previous films, but the small scene with C3PO and R2 made me smile. It felt almost as if they were breaking the 4th wall and doing a play-by-play commentary for the audience ("Look, they're going to Scarif")
-The explanation for the Death Star fault: great use of irony (it was on purpose); it added a whole new layer to the overarching narrative; really liked that particular plot point.
-It was risky (despite some worries surrounding reshoots); I'm glad they didn't go for an unrelialistic happy ending.
-The acting was mostly pretty good, personal favorites were Mads Mikkelsen and K2, also Jyn and Cassian.  
-We finally got to explore a father-daughter relationship in SW, something that was missing with Leia and Anakin and that we'll probably never get to see with Rey even though Luke could still act as a father figure to her; I just loved Galen & Jyn's relationship even though we only had a few scenes devoted to it; one of my favourite parts was where Jyn identifies the folder with the plans because her dad named it after her childhood nickname; their final moment together was also really touching.
-The Jyn/Cassian interactions. While not exactly a romance, there was definitely something going on there. I agree with everyone above: I loved their relationship, the gradual build of trust and how by the end they really come to care deeply for one another. Certainly the most impactful dynamic in the film, apart from Galen/Gyn. So bittersweet, so filled with a sense of unfulfilled dreams and unspoken feelings, the perfect example of "what could've been". I adore the final scene where they embrace, it had a terryfying beauty to it, awfully tragic and oddly romantic at the same time. It stays in your mind. Together in death, they finally find peace after all they're suffered through. At least in those last few seconds they knew it was not in vain and what mattered was they found each other and had a chance to experience something meaningful together.
-The greatest highlight for me was the moral ambiguity, which Adam also commented on in one of his recent interviews. Neither side is perfect, they all do morally questionable or outright bad things so the lines between good and evil are always blurred. It seems to be a recurring modern theme in the new SW films, which is really compelling. You see it in TFA especially with Kylo and now also with Jyn, Cassian and the rebels in general, e.g. him shooting the spy and admitting to having done terrible things and trying to forget about them. And, of course, we can only imagine what's going on beneath the surface with Darth Vader. Especially since we know his tragic story. I might comment more on his castle and its significance later.

Cons:
-The CGI work for some of the characters didn't work out well IMO, it probably would've been more impactful using just glimpses/subtle nods to them or not include them at all.
-Even though they didn't affect major plot elements, the extensive reshoots do make the film feel rushed and overall less polished. It also impacts characterization. I agree with “@nonesuch”: we were introduced to lots of different characters within a short period of time and didn’t really had a chance to connect emotionally with any of them (Jyn and Cassian, to a certain extent, were the only exceptions). They were still likeable, but lacking in depth. I think this aspect (which is really the most important) suffered in favour of more action scenes/moving the plot further along.
-Krennic, who was supposed to be the main antagonist, is another example of a missed opportunity. He really did not do much in the film, it would’ve been nice to see him in action more often. Also, I would’ve liked to see more of an internal conflict in this case as the concept of a “false friend” is very interesting in itself. On the other hand, maybe that’s what the character was supposed to be like, in fact he reminded me of Hux a lot: an over-the-top, neurotic, selfish, boasting, self-important careerist with an inflated ego and a false sense of superiority who is actually quite pathetic underneath the surface (e.g. the way he wanted to make sure the Emperor would know of his “achievements” and grant him a promotion). Clearly had no brilliance or class of his own (especially compared to Tarkin or Vader). Such characters don’t get redeemed, and Krennic deserved the inglorious ending he got for sure.
-There was a certain level of repetitiveness, e.g. recycled TFA themes: imperials who defect (Finn, Rook, K2), dressing up as the enemy (the reverse of Finn posing as a Resistance fighter), the Rey/Jyn fight scenes where the guy standing by is observing and doesn't need to intervene, etc.
-There were also no real surprises in terms of plot save for the Death Star fault explanation. It was pretty much a case of a foregone conclusion.

Overall, it was a fun movie, imperfect for multiple reasons, but still highly enjoyable and, for its purpose, very well executed. It was worth it. That said, TFA remains an undisputed favourite.


Last edited by Queen of the Knights on Thu 12 Jan - 8:29; edited 3 times in total
MindAndMagic
MindAndMagic
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 506
Likes : 5213
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-23
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 19 Dec - 8:06

Hi there, just came back from R1 in 3D. I hate 3D. I felt a bit nauseous. I have to get something out of my system. The whole freaky consumerism society is really starting to spoil the cinema experience for me. I paid 15 EUR which is not cheap. Still I get treated with 35 minutes of commercials and trailers and even - first time I see this since ages - staff that comes in the room 10 minutes before the movie starts to still sell you stuff. Just in case you still need to consume something. Then people are there munching, slurping, knocking over food on the floor. I was so fed up by the time the movie started... At the end of the movie, the room looked like a popcorn bomb exploded, the cleaning staff kind of pushed us out because they had so much to clean and people were already waiting outside for the next show. What the f*** is wrong with our society? Respect, anyone?

Now to the movie. I have not read the last pages here. I will later. I did enjoy the movie, but I don't feel that enthusiastic about it. I will probably watch it a second time, maybe with my parents, but definitively not four times like TFA. I am very character oriented and I am missing a connection to the characters in Rogue One. I did feel sad when some died, but I cannot say that I came out of the movie feeling affected. I was much more affected coming out of Arrival the week before. I enjoyed Chirrut - the classic honorable samurai -, Cassian - the classic conman with a heart - and Bodhi - the slightly geeky guy who shows courage. The droid is nice too. Jyn is also a good character but it took me some time to warm up to her. I hated Saw Guerrera, I was happy when he died because he somehow does not fit and his relationship with Jyn just looked fake to me - nothing about Forest Whitaker, there might have been unfavorable rewriting and editing.

The different worlds looked really nice and I enjoyed the presence of non human characters. That Mon Calamari general is fantastic. I hope episode VIII shows us a bit more of other worlds and non humans.

I thought the introduction of the movie was lame. It was the classic case of showing how - sob - Jyn is a poor girl and we should feel for her. I think that the movie would have been much more powerful if the first images were Jyn in prison and we would have gotten just a flashback. I like it when things are not pre-chewed for me and this was too much pre-chewing to my taste.

I am not a Vader fan but I still had a huge grin on my face when he showed his dark side. Go Vader!

I don't want to sound critical. It is a good movie and I did cry when Jyn and Cassian died, but it did not have the grip TFA had on me. But then TFA had such a grip on me because of one character so it's difficult to compete.

That's all I can think of right now.
SanghaRen
SanghaRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1886
Likes : 9306
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-29
Localisation : French living in Germany

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by snufkin on Mon 19 Dec - 8:14

Thought this was interesting in terms of using one major detail in the story harvested from the original movie in a way that wasn't just a clever nod, but actually enhanced both R1 and the original backstory:

Rogue One Has the First Good Star Wars Retcon

Before we go any further, we have to establish the problem that the movie fixes here. In A New Hope, the Rebel Alliance is able to destroy the aforementioned planet-killing space station through a highly improbable David-and-Goliath maneuver. Despite the fact that this sucker is the size of a moon and the crown jewel of Imperial engineering, the secret schematics that the Rebels swipe reveal that the whole thing can be destroyed if you shoot a couple of small torpedoes into a tiny exhaust port that’s just sitting on the surface, unprotected. Aim your gun correctly and flick your thumb on the firing button and you’ll make this massive mechanical horror go kaboom. How could such a disproportionate chain reaction be possible? And why the hell would the Rebels even know such a tiny flaw exists, given that the schematics are likely to be insanely complex?
snufkin
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 8245
Likes : 38103
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-17
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by SanghaRen on Mon 19 Dec - 8:21

One more thing: I missed the Hera Syndulla Easter egg  Sad. I was keeping my ears on alert, but I still missed it.
SanghaRen
SanghaRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1886
Likes : 9306
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-29
Localisation : French living in Germany

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by CienaRee on Mon 19 Dec - 8:21

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:I didn't remember how scared, though resigned, they actually looked in the end. *sobs loudly*
@Darth Dingbat

*Sobbing right with you!* OMG!  I need to see this movie again!!!  Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is still the best character SW ever created and is still my all-time favorite by far, but OMG, I love Cassian and Jyn!!! I *loved* everybody, even Krennic, because a slimy guy just like him would be in charge of the Death Star (also, Krennic was a total bait and switch from the marketing department IMO to distract everybody from the significant Vader and Tarkin appearances IMO).  But the whole "Cassian and Jyn" thing is killing me with the "what might have been".  Both were damaged and hurt by life and both had become hardened until this experience and commitment they made together brought them both to this incredible and heroic point where they both gave their whole heart and soul and vulnerability to this near impossible goal ... and all they get is a few stolen moments when they both deserved so much more.  They were so incredibly suited and so equal.  Both of them saved each other.  If we could get this kind of equal meeting of the minds/radical honesty ("Yes, I was going to kill your father, but I didn't did I?" and "I've done really disgusting things for this reason and if it's all meaningless now, I will be completely lost" (paraphrasing)) with Rey and Kylo, I would be so happy.  Sure Kylo might be misguided, but he might have a reasoning that Rey can understand.  Jyn could accept Cassian because she wasn't a cinnamon roll ... Rey will be able to "get" and maybe "accept" Kylo if some of her "cinnamon roll" aura with certain swathes of the audience could be put to rest.
@SoloSideCousin

Couldn't agree more on all of this. Cassian and Jyn... I love them, and I think I'm going to love them more and more on subsequent viewings.

Vader was awesome, but as a villain, Tarkin totally stole the film as far as I'm concerned. It helps, of course, that I wasn't distracted by the CGI at all  Laughing It took me about five seconds to suspend disbelief, heh.

RO has definitely enriched the OT for me. Not only did it make the Rebellion seem more "real" and the stakes higher, it made the Death Star personal.

That approaching white light just stunned me in the cinema.
@Darth Dingbat@SoloSideCousin 
You should deffinatly buy the RO novalization if you love Jyn/Cassian(I love them too).I haven't bought it yet since it comes out next week on amazon but I've read some parts on tumblr and there are a lot of romantic Jyn/Cassian suggestions/undertones.You can read some of it here: 
https://bossard.tumblr.com/post/154641269917/best-parts-of-the-rogue-one-novelization
https://bossard.tumblr.com/tagged/rebelcaptain

This is probably one of my favourite quotes:
 
"Most of all, he listened for Jyn. He listened for her struggles. He listened for her voice. He tried to determine which steady tread on the sand was hers. For all Cassian heard, she might have vanished from the face of Jedha. 
Was it concern that made him fixate on her? His mission was to find Saw and, through Saw, find the pilot; find proof of an Imperial weapon that could mutilate the galaxy. If possible, he was also to find an eliminate Galen Erso – a man very likely culpable in that weapon’s creation. Jyn was first and foremost a means of finding Saw. She’d already served that purpose, which meant she was now expendable. 
She dominated his thinking nonetheless. Cassian believed pity nor pragmatism explained it. 
Maybe it was the need he’d seen in Jyn, the fire that had carried her through the fighting in the Holy Quarter. It seemed obscene to leave that need unanswered, abandoned to the dust."


I have to say Cassian's behaviour towards Jyn reminds me a lot of how Kylo behaves when it comes to Rey.I mean both of these man have missions who they put above everything else but when it comes to Jyn and Rey all reason flies out of the window.But what can you do love is blind after all. Laughing

CienaRee
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1154
Likes : 5684
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 19 Dec - 8:27

Husband was wondering whether Vader's castle was on Mustafar by his own choice, or whether the Emperor had chosen that location as a way of continuing to manipulate Vader. Thoughts?
ISeeAnIsland
ISeeAnIsland
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 5693
Likes : 29568
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26
Localisation : Seattle, WA

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by Sacrebleu on Mon 19 Dec - 8:31

I loved it.  Saw it in a strange 5 screen independent theater in the middle of nowhere in the mountains.  All employees were teenagers.  "Closed" sign on the ticket booth window but the door was open and we found somebody to sell us tickets.  Place was practically deserted.  We watched a new Star Wars movie on opening weekend in a virtually empty theater with ONE other patron.  But I digress.

It would take a long time to list all the things I loved.  The only major problem I had and would change is Tarkin.  I didn't find the CGI at all convincing and it jarred me out of the film every time he was on screen.  I could deal with the CGI Leia as it was one shot and one word.  I would have preferred less Tarkin and more Vader.  Vader was much more convincing since they still have James Earl Jones' voice and can put any tall man in that costume.

I see many people were disappointed in Krennic, but I loved him.  Loved the actor's portrayal, loved his cape.

I loved the subtlety of Jyn and Cassian.  Far more moving and erotic than most movie kisses I've seen.
Sacrebleu
Sacrebleu
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 378
Likes : 1401
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-31

Back to top Go down

ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Rogue One - first spinoff movie - 1

Post by panki on Mon 19 Dec - 8:32

@SanghaRen wrote:One more thing: I missed the Hera Syndulla Easter egg  Sad. I was keeping my ears on alert, but I still missed it.
@SanghaRen

Did you see Chopper? He appears very briefly...and so does the Ghost (twice). I love the movie...it has become my favourite SW movie (though Kylo still remains my favorite character by far)....and so far I like the book as well.

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:Husband was wondering whether Vader's castle was on Mustafar by his own choice, or whether the Emperor had chosen that location as a way of continuing to manipulate Vader. Thoughts?
@ISeeAnIsland

I think Vader would have chosen Mustafaar as the place for his castle since that is where he thinks he murdered his wife and child....and also the place he lost his limbs and got disfigured so he can no longer realise his full force potential and therefore fell int he eyes of Palpatine......the dark side requires a FS person to focus on their pain and anger....Mustafaar would be the ideal place for Vader to connect to his pain and rage....hence his dark side.

panki
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3345
Likes : 12489
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Page 37 of 40 Previous  1 ... 20 ... 36, 37, 38, 39, 40  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum