JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII"

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Post by MeadowofAshes on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 11:40 pm

I get the impression the collective "I don't understand shipping" in regards to Rey/Kylo is largely deflection by playing dumb because it's not just Reylation theories they've pooped on. Kylux and Stormpilot took hits pretty early on. Essentially, we've got...

Rey Solo: Daisy already handled that (with "obviously I wasn't).
Reywalker: Lulz to the no, rinse and repeat.
Kylux: It's work conflict.
Stormpilot: Wishful thinking.
Kylo's sexuality: Go with what the movie tells you.
Kylo's virginity: None of our business.
FinnRey: We played it as friends.
Reylo: Silence on the line... which has transformed into "I don't get shipping."

And it's a pretty easy go-to for Pablo. Shippers really did start fights on his feed early on, when he was completely silent about it. I got hounded by an Anti for pointing out the villainous crush in relation to why, lulz, Reywalker is obviously not a thing.

The thing is, even if it remains one-sided (I don't feel like it will, but just for argument's sake), Kylo is plainly infatuated with Rey, and it ain't just her power that does it for him. His redemption is tied to his feelings for her, and those feelings transforming from selfish, unhealthy obsession to selfless love. And that is not something any of them are at liberty to talk about because that is a primary part of the story arc. As soon as you put Kylo saying he will not be seduced by the light together with his villainous crush, you realize Snoke's grand plan is utterly screwed and exactly why.
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Post by IoJovi on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 11:49 pm

Interesting enough, Matt and Pablo have had different styles of addressing that topic in the early days. Now it seems both have the same identical answer lately - I don't understand shipping. Like, what is there not to understand about it? It's pretty simple.

Something tells me they've both been coached.
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Post by Helix on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 11:59 pm

LF to Matt and Pablo:

JJ Abrams: "Rey's parents are not in Episode VII" - Page 17 Tumblr13
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Post by CienaRee on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 3:59 am

@IoJovi wrote:Interesting enough, Matt and Pablo have had different styles of addressing that topic in the early days.  Now it seems both have the same identical answer lately - I don't understand shipping.  Like, what is there not to understand about it?  It's pretty simple.

Something tells me they've both been coached.
@IoJovi
Honestly Pablo's answer is such a BS(if he really does mean it).It's one thinh if he dislikes Reylo but the purpose of love stories is usually to make people invested and root for the characters to get together and be happy.Him saying he doesn't like shipping makes him come off as lacking imagination or really any knewdge of how storytelling works.

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Post by Acritiqua on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 4:43 pm

There really are a lot of people who don't understand shipping, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone who models transformers (sci-fi tech geek?) doesn't understand shipping. Shipping is romantic and a lot of people are not romantics (even though almost everyone has a romantic side to them). Shipping also seems to have some sort of feminine root. I don't know what I mean by "feminine." Watching/reading stuff and going gaga over all the relationships seems like kind of a girl thing? (I don't want to pass over the guys who are shippers though in saying that.)
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Post by panki on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 5:00 pm

@Acritiqua wrote:There really are a lot of people who don't understand shipping, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone who models transformers (sci-fi tech geek?) doesn't understand shipping. Shipping is romantic and a lot of people are not romantics (even though almost everyone has a romantic side to them). Shipping also seems to have some sort of feminine root. I don't know what I mean by "feminine." Watching/reading stuff and going gaga over all the relationships seems like kind of a girl thing? (I don't want to pass over the guys who are shippers though in saying that.)
@Acritiqua

I work on model transformers among other kits and yet am into shipping as well Razz ....I dont think one can group all shippers under one umbrella and tech loving geeks under another...the groups do intersect. Also, there are rotten eggs in every group.... I remember how some so-called 'feminists' used to make fun of my 'nerd' interests because I was a tomboy and wasn't into Harlequin romances like they were and one even seized and broke a model I was working on back in college just for a laugh...of course she got punched in the face for her trouble and never tried it again...lol.

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Post by Acritiqua on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 5:22 pm

@panki wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:There really are a lot of people who don't understand shipping, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone who models transformers (sci-fi tech geek?) doesn't understand shipping. Shipping is romantic and a lot of people are not romantics (even though almost everyone has a romantic side to them). Shipping also seems to have some sort of feminine root. I don't know what I mean by "feminine." Watching/reading stuff and going gaga over all the relationships seems like kind of a girl thing? (I don't want to pass over the guys who are shippers though in saying that.)
@Acritiqua

I work on model transformers among other kits and yet am into shipping as well Razz ....I dont think one can group all shippers under one umbrella and tech loving geeks under another...the groups do intersect. Also, there are rotten eggs in every group.... I remember how some so-called 'feminists' used to make fun of my 'nerd' interests because I wasn't into Harlequin romances like they were and one even seized and broke a model I was working on back in college just for a laugh...of course she got punched in the face for her trouble and never tried it again...lol.
@panki Yeah I was trying to avoid grouping people into categories like that, but I think there are patterns here, even if I cannot find a good way to say it. That something may come from "the feminine" is different than it being "feminist" I'd point out as well. Shipping is not "feminist." Think "the sacred feminine" or something along those lines. The reason why it can't easily be defined is that there is no clear cut biological difference between female and male minds (no all women are X way and all men are Y way) and the traits society has associated with femininity and masculinity are culturally defined (so there is an echo chamber in place) . Not a single one of them can be clearly matched. For instance, being "nurturing" is often associated as "feminine," but is it really? But I still think there is a pattern beyond these false/far too simple categories.

Although I don't consider myself a very feminine female, the part of me that ships and goes gaga over fictional relationships seems to me to be the most girly part of me. And it is linked to romanticism, idealism, fascination with relationships and longing to see certain emotions come out between characters, fantasy... it is *emotional* and not logical. I can't believe there is nothing at all to this.

You could potentially say that in some personality theories NFs are the most romantic and STs the least in terms of spinning up imagination and feeling in one's mind regarding fictional characters such that they become "real" and one lives in the feelings between them (again, this wording is trying to get an idea across, not to be the most precise best way to say this as I can't find the best way to say it). This wouldn't be saying that all NFs are romantic and no STs are, by the way. But you can take this forum as an example, it is full of intuition and feeling.

And whether people were coached to say they don't understand shipping or not, I have met people who just don't understand it. Some people don't focus so much on relationships in fiction, not in any sort of romantic way, because they are just not so inclined.
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Post by Saracene on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 6:26 pm

I've read an interesting perspective (from a guy) on why men don't get the same thrill out of a fictional romance as women do. It naturally makes very broad generalisations, but I think there's some kernel of truth in it:

"To generalize for the purpose of an easy answer, let's think in stereotypically gendered terms. When it comes to love, men have an active role while women have a passive one.

What are the implications of this? It means that what a woman feels as the ups and downs, the mystery, the unknown, the excitement, etc., all things that define "blossoming" love, are things that happen to her. She is passive, she is the recipient. Her agency is contained in her response to these things.

But for a man, anything that makes "love" progress (or regress) pretty much directly stems from one of his actions. He does something or initiates and a woman responds/reciprocates. Because he does not have the gendered luxury of taking a backseat or passive role and watching things happen (if he does, nothing will; the woman will lose interest), he begins, by necessity, to view love as the cause and effect relationship that it more accurately is in reality (he does something, woman responds).

Seeing something like this takes a ton of the "magic" out of it. Compare it to seeing the sun rise every day. It becomes a lot less mystical, exciting, and dramatic when you know exactly why it happens and can simply see it for the cause and effect relationship that it truly is... you may even begin to take it for granted.

This is why romance eventually becomes well... unromantic for men. Romance is not a phenomenon, but instead a verb; it's a series of actions carried out by a man to earn a woman's affections... it's labor.
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Post by Acritiqua on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 8:58 pm

@Saracene that would make sense to me in that society is patriarchal (or the one I live in is) and so all of the messages we pick up ever since we are small children differ. The "feminine" is always more mysterious or whatever with hidden wonders/magic whereas the "masculine" is more practical and down-to-earth and more action-based. From a really early age, children may identify with one or the other. Even though I consider myself fairly "masculine," because I am female my little child brain could match up with the "feminine" as defined by society. I wish I knew if this were simply a false dichotomy. Society makes it difficult to see. One thing I do believe is that gender is more complex than a dichotomy.

Also, if you see me thinking in boxes with this, know that it's because I don't yet know how to transcend them. I visit topics like this because I'm confused and seeking resolution. I know that I can't resolve everything before I die, but I try as much as I can to understand.
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Post by Helix on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 9:20 pm

@panki wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:There really are a lot of people who don't understand shipping, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone who models transformers (sci-fi tech geek?) doesn't understand shipping. Shipping is romantic and a lot of people are not romantics (even though almost everyone has a romantic side to them). Shipping also seems to have some sort of feminine root. I don't know what I mean by "feminine." Watching/reading stuff and going gaga over all the relationships seems like kind of a girl thing? (I don't want to pass over the guys who are shippers though in saying that.)
@Acritiqua

I work on model transformers among other kits and yet am into shipping as well Razz ....I dont think one can group all shippers under one umbrella and tech loving geeks under another...the groups do intersect. Also, there are rotten eggs in every group.... I remember how some so-called 'feminists' used to make fun of my 'nerd' interests because I was a tomboy and wasn't into Harlequin romances like they were and one even seized and broke a model I was working on back in college just for a laugh...of course she got punched in the face for her trouble and never tried it again...lol.
@panki

I'm a guy and am fine with embracing feminine things and don't see it as a problem. Like my main 'fandoms' and interests are monster movies and horror, but I do like shipping, but I can't really say why. I just kinda like it? I do really digging in to fictional characters and their relationships ( not just romantic ) in-general, though.
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Post by Acritiqua on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 9:54 pm

Just so you all know, I'm a girl and I'm fine with embracing masculine things. I often relate to male characters over female ones and I've never only been into "girl things" etc.

If there is a divide here, it's in my language more than anything else.

@Helix wrote:I do really digging in to fictional characters and their relationships ( not just romantic ) in-general, though.
@Helix Also BTW this is also what I love. <3
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 6:26 pm

Still funny. #ReyGate 2016.
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Post by snufkin on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 6:34 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig gosh and with Rian's comments on the Empire podcast, all of this was discussed/decided before TFA even came out. Then JJ blurted it all out because a kid asked him and he couldn't lie in that situation. But there are some diehards who are going on about how it could all get changed by JJ for IX (bless their hearts).
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Post by IoJovi on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 6:48 pm

@snufkin wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig gosh and with Rian's comments on the Empire podcast, all of this was discussed/decided before TFA even came out. Then JJ blurted it all out because a kid asked him and he couldn't lie in that situation. But there are some diehards who are going on about how it could all get changed by JJ for IX (bless their hearts).
@snufkin

This is still one of THE best, most fun days I’ve had in the fandom, to date.

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Post by snufkin on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 6:56 pm

@IoJovi See I missed out on both that and the initial debates/arguments because I saw TFA 2.5 months after it release. So it was funny because first JJ sticks his foot in his mouth with Ashgate (though I'd swear there were hilarious comments from either the AV Club or EW's article about "Mmm, that just makes him hotter.") and that pops up on my Google News feed. And then there was this comment also popping up on my Google News feed because I hadn't found this place yet. Which did make me laugh because I never for a second in my first viewing got the idea that she was 'supposed' to be Luke's kid.  Or that she and Finn were meant to be a romantic couple versus her and Kylo.
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Post by Darth Dementor on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 6:58 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig gosh and with Rian's comments on the Empire podcast, all of this was discussed/decided before TFA even came out. Then JJ blurted it all out because a kid asked him and he couldn't lie in that situation. But there are some diehards who are going on about how it could all get changed by JJ for IX (bless their hearts).
@snufkin

This is still one of THE best, most fun days I’ve had in the fandom, to date.

@IoJovi

Oh it'll get even better when, Rey and Ben passionately kiss and declare their undying love for one another, and Rey Walkers will still try to spin it that their cousins and a secret tenth episode is coming out to debunk the entire Sequel trilogy.

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Post by snufkin on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 7:08 pm

@Darth Dementor @IoJovi - "It's like Downtown Abbey!"
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Post by IoJovi on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 7:09 pm

@snufkin wrote:@IoJovi See I missed out on both that and the initial debates/arguments because I saw TFA 2.5 months after it release. So it was funny because first JJ sticks his foot in his mouth with Ashgate (though I'd swear there were hilarious comments from either the AV Club or EW's article about "Mmm, that just makes him hotter.") and that pops up on my Google News feed. And then there was this comment also popping up on my Google News feed because I hadn't found this place yet. Which did make me laugh because I never for a second in my first viewing got the idea that she was 'supposed' to be Luke's kid.  Or that she and Finn were meant to be a romantic couple versus her and Kylo.
@snufkin

Haha I loved this so much I remember the day it happened - April 25, 2016. After your join date. Smile Still, to get the full effect of the awesomeness, you had to be around to watch it unfold. It started with JJs quote to that kid, and then went on to Pablo’s half panicked, half amused tweet with “Kylo IS the Skywalker of this trilogy. We know that, right?” Then cue Daisy going into the Reylo tag on IG with cat emojis asking what it all means.

Fun night indeed. I was squealing like a little girl.

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Post by snufkin on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 7:23 pm

@IoJovi You remember the date like it was a holiday! The whole business of "Rey is Luke's daughter" was just one of the dumbest things ever I read after I saw TFA for the first time because I never had that impression. Like I've said, the film reviewer on Vox had that in his review and his review for TLJ is about how you can't trust that Kylo and that means Rey might still be 'somebody.' Which is pure "JJ will fix it." Which duh, JJ blurted this out 2 years ago, he's coming back, and Rian Johnson just said QED that it would be bad writing/boring to make Rey reylated. But some folks are gonna hold on to that idea until they do something like showing a DNA test and then those two screwing each other's brains out.
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Post by Darth Dementor on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:45 pm

Great video explaining why Rey not being related to any past characters is the true essence of the original trilogy.

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