Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 1

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Who is Rey related to?

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Post by IoJovi on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:45 pm

Yeah I'm not really married to any one parentage theory, but I think that her being a Kenobi descendent is the most likely option. I'm thinking one or more of her direct parents is dark side, however. And I love @Gemini 's lineage theory, and how it runs opposite to Kylo's.

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Post by Birdwoman on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:47 pm

I like the idea of her being descended from the Kenobi line because it is poetic.

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Post by Rogue Rey on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:40 pm

Not sure if this article has been posted on this forum before but it makes for a good and convincing read for Rey Kenobi + kinda mentions Rey saving Ben Wink

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-ostrower/rey-is-obi-wan-kenobis-granddaughter_b_8911656.html
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 5:59 pm

@Rogue Rey wrote:Not sure if this article has been posted on this forum before but it makes for a good and convincing read for Rey Kenobi + kinda mentions Rey saving Ben Wink

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-ostrower/rey-is-obi-wan-kenobis-granddaughter_b_8911656.html
@Rogue Rey

Even in the comments below they're in denialville lol!
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Post by Rogue Rey on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 6:13 pm

@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@Rogue Rey wrote:Not sure if this article has been posted on this forum before but it makes for a good and convincing read for Rey Kenobi + kinda mentions Rey saving Ben Wink

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-ostrower/rey-is-obi-wan-kenobis-granddaughter_b_8911656.html
@Rogue Rey

Even in the comments below they're in denialville lol!
@Maria Antonietta

I didn't read the comments they only make my blood boil.
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Post by IoJovi on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 6:57 pm

Unfortunately with articles shown for the general audience, there's usually nothing but negativity in the comments, and it's not usually directed at Reylo, but at the film itself.

I gotta say though I am liking the Kenobi theory more and more...
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Post by snufkin on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:40 pm

If you're gonna be related to anybody significant, Hell yes my vote would be for Obi-Wan, or the combined awesomeness of Ewan McGregor and Sir Alec Guiness. But even more awesome would be nobody well known. Nobody talks about Han's lineage because he's so awesome and self possessed, he's totally his own person and came from completely humble origins. I would love to see it be the same case with Rey. Obviously there is a mystery about who her biological family is and how she ended up fending for herself on Jakku (ideally I'd say it ties in with Snoke's creeper plans to snatch up kids like Ben and Finn as part of building the First Order), but please something new and more than just "I am your father" part two.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 8:18 am

One small thing about King Prana - I was reminded of it by @vaderito's excellent posts in another thread. If we think about the way the Force seems to guide Rey towards meeting Kylo and how "the belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead"...

If it does turn out that King Prana is related to Rey, it's very interesting in retrospect because the moment that King Prana is mentioned in TFA is a crossroads for the entire story. Han is on his way to King Prana; Rey wants to go back to Jakku, but if Prana is the family she's been waiting for, she is now suddenly closer to finding her family than she ever was on Jakku.

But right afterwards, the events take them to Takodana instead. The Force directs her "ahead"; not "behind".
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Post by Darth Dementor on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:32 pm

Well looks like science, itself, is backing up Rey isn't Luke's kid.
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-04-18/this-star-wars-fan-just-used-genetics-to-debunk-a-major-the-force-awakens-fan-theory

The EYES have it. Now repeat after me Reywalkers: it's just a movie; relax.

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Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 6:13 pm

A small parallel

In AOTC , Obi Wan on Kamino battles Jango Fett ( armed masked fighter) in the darkness, rain & lightning. This mirrors part of Rey's vision. She is standing in the rain, darkness & lightening against armed masked fighters.

I think Rey & Obi Wan are the only main characters to appear in rain this way. Of course now Kylo since he was in the vision.



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Post by Little_Boots on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 5:10 am

When the droid is showing the map, anyone notice BB8 looks at Rey for approval and she is like "go ahead".....So maybe Rey saw the map before Han and Finn.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 5:20 am

Just noticed something incredible about the Rey kenobi theory


Sit tight guys and gals

Going to post it later
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Post by Gemini on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 5:30 am

Think about this.

With Luke her journey is mirroring obi WANs going forward in ANH

With ren, it is mirroring obi WANs journey with anakin going backwards, bringing boy Ben back boy anakin is who obi wan first meets
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 5:37 am

I only say they could have taken some inspiration from the idea of a reversal of Anakin/Padme because of the music (backwards Across the Stars in their themes). I have yet to find any Obi-Wan connection in the music.

I also agree with what others have said over the past few weeks. Trevorrow's "deeply satisfying" comment could mean a lot of things. I now see that it very well just might be saying that her backstory is going to be fleshed out in a satisfying way, not necessarily that it will give her a connection to any other character. I really just find the whole legacy thing so convoluted. It doesn't have a place in the story to me. I'm not against Rey Kenobi, but I would take Rey Random over it any day just because it leaves more valuable screentime open for other developments. Rey Kenobi would take too much to explain in my opinion. That's just me though.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 5:56 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I only say they could have taken some inspiration from the idea of a reversal of Anakin/Padme because of the music (backwards Across the Stars in their themes). I have yet to find any Obi-Wan connection in the music.

I also agree with what others have said over the past few weeks. Trevorrow's "deeply satisfying" comment could mean a lot of things. I now see that it very well just might be saying that her backstory is going to be fleshed out in a satisfying way, not necessarily that it will give her a connection to any other character. I really just find the whole legacy thing so convoluted. It doesn't have a place in the story to me. I'm not against Rey Kenobi, but I would take Rey Random over it any day just because it leaves more valuable screentime open for other developments. Rey Kenobi would take too much to explain in my opinion. That's just me though.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes - speaking in terms of narrative, it would be more satisfying if the mystery of Rey's origins is tied to this story that is unfolding right now.

So, either way - legacy character or not - I hope the mystery actually ties to what is going on in the current timeline. And if she just happens to be a legacy character... well, so be it - but I hope that's not the most important thing about her origins. It was set up as a mystery so I hope the mystery actually has a good plot of some kind.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 6:05 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I only say they could have taken some inspiration from the idea of a reversal of Anakin/Padme because of the music (backwards Across the Stars in their themes). I have yet to find any Obi-Wan connection in the music.

I also agree with what others have said over the past few weeks. Trevorrow's "deeply satisfying" comment could mean a lot of things. I now see that it very well just might be saying that her backstory is going to be fleshed out in a satisfying way, not necessarily that it will give her a connection to any other character. I really just find the whole legacy thing so convoluted. It doesn't have a place in the story to me. I'm not against Rey Kenobi, but I would take Rey Random over it any day just because it leaves more valuable screentime open for other developments. Rey Kenobi would take too much to explain in my opinion. That's just me though.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes - speaking in terms of narrative, it would be more satisfying if the mystery of Rey's origins is tied to this story that is unfolding right now.

So, either way - legacy character or not - I hope the mystery actually ties to what is going on in the current timeline. And if she just happens to be a legacy character... well, so be it - but I hope that's not the most important thing about her origins. It was set up as a mystery so I hope the mystery actually has a good plot of some kind.
@Darth Dingbat
Trevorrow's interview made me doubt myself for a long time, which is why I never chimed in really about her origins. Above all I just want this to be Rey's story, not her parents' story or her grandparents' story. Connecting Rey (and the story) to something that happened that long ago seems so random... especially because it doesn't seem like it'll have any impact on the plot. It's just an unnecessary complication that will use valuable screentime in-place of better developments that would be relevant to the current era. And it feels "too perfect", like the writers would be following Ring Composition to a T without faltering in the least bit.
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Post by vaderito on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 6:11 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I only say they could have taken some inspiration from the idea of a reversal of Anakin/Padme because of the music (backwards Across the Stars in their themes). I have yet to find any Obi-Wan connection in the music.

I also agree with what others have said over the past few weeks. Trevorrow's "deeply satisfying" comment could mean a lot of things. I now see that it very well just might be saying that her backstory is going to be fleshed out in a satisfying way, not necessarily that it will give her a connection to any other character. I really just find the whole legacy thing so convoluted. It doesn't have a place in the story to me. I'm not against Rey Kenobi, but I would take Rey Random over it any day just because it leaves more valuable screentime open for other developments. Rey Kenobi would take too much to explain in my opinion. That's just me though.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Everything that isn't Rey Random takes too much explanation because of the way things are set up. We have abandoned child, which is a huge deal because nobody can come out of that unscratched. Moreover, she keeps talking about "her family" as in plural, while TP and OT were very precise in setting up the mysterious "father". For example:

Ben Kenobi:I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did.
Luke Skywalker: What is it?
Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: Your father's light saber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age. For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire.

Luke Skywalker:How did my father die?
Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

Luke Skywalker: No, my father didn't fight in the Clone Wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.
Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals; he felt he should've stayed here and not gotten involved.
Luke Skywalker: You fought in the Clone Wars?
Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: Yes. I was once a Jedi knight, the same as your father.
Luke Skywalker: I wish I'd known him.
Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand that you've become quite a good pilot yourself.
[sorrowfully]
Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: And he was a good friend.


This is a great set up about Luke father's identity. It gives you everything except actual name. OTOH, nothing about "I'm waiting for my totally non-descript family" implies that she is the daughter of solitary Luke. cause movie drops ZERO hints that Luke had a family. In fact, we are straight up told that Luke is a Jedi:

"Luke was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible and just walked out of everything...those who know him best think that he's looking for the First Jedi Temple."

"Luke is a Jedi, you are his father."

Does anything in these conversations about Luke suggest that he has a family? That he's a family man? No. They state 100% that he's a Jedi who screwed up as a Jedi not as a family man.

Moreover:

Maz:"Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku are never coming back. But someone still could."

Rey is waiting for her family. Plural. Nobody ever talks about Luke in plural. And rocks are just rocks, not deceased wife/daughter's grave.

Likewise, nobody talks about lost little girl in the family. It's all "our son this, our son that."

TP did a good job in setting up Anakin's origin too:

Shmi:  "There was no father. I carried him, I gave birth, I raised him. I can't explain what happened."

Obi Wan: "...count of midichlorians higher than even master Yoda"

Palpatine:"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life."

So all that set up that Anakin was created by pure Force. And that went over his head cause he only thought about saving Padme. But it didn't go over audience' s head because the intention was that we, not him, understand what happened, how he came to be.

Again, no "Classified? Me too. Big secret" bull that doesn't tell you anything. Could be sarcasm could be real secret as in "someone important". But if second option is the correct option, set up for Reywalker is epic fail.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 6:22 am

The way TFA ends with ren and Rey  is how ROTS ends between the two except it seems to reverse because of the regret in her face and rather than screaming I hate you! Ren is in love.

If it was to reverse from that point on then it would be redemption arc leading back to how we meet anakin, the return of Ben solo who was truly Ben solo when he was a child

Is there a reason Ben turned as a boy and not a young man? That could be it

Her meeting him to fight is much like obi WANs end in ANH but she has her near death and resurrection moment and the tables turn and then it starts to be the end of ROTS going backwards


Last edited by Gemini on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 6:40 am; edited 5 times in total
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Post by panki on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 6:25 am

I read through the Star Wars Annual comics (canon)...one of the story lines is Luke reading through Ben Kenobi's diaries.....the diary mentions that he lived alone, was a hermit, he still saw himself as a jedi and his whole focus was on keeping Luke safe. Even other characters who discuss him talk of him as a wizard who lived alone and there is no mention of any one else in his life. So I don't think he had any relationships during his stay on Tatooine....but he could have a grandchild if Korkie Kryze is his child with Satine and Korkie survived after Darth Maul killed Satine.

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Post by Maria Antonietta on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 7:17 am

@panki wrote:I read through the Star Wars Annual comics (canon)...one of the story lines is Luke reading through Ben Kenobi's diaries.....the diary mentions that he lived alone, was a hermit, he still saw himself as a jedi and his whole focus was on keeping Luke safe. Even other characters who discuss him talk of him as a wizard who lived alone and there is no mention of any one else in his life. So I don't think he had any relationships during his stay on Tatooine....but he could have a grandchild if Korkie Kryze is his child with Satine and Korkie survived after Darth Maul killed Satine.
@panki

Yes, the diary is mentioned in that youtube video (over 1 million views) about rey Kenobi theory. Who knows what happened. I think that with Ewan willing to do some movie about Obi Wan, maybe they already planned everything
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 7:20 am

WELL. I came across some very interesting name symbolism.

First of all, sun is the source of prana. Rays of light = prana. Prana = "the sun of a thousand rays".

But this? This floored me:

Prana and Rayi are the two poles of manifesting energy–positive and negative, male and female. This duality is at the heart of all that presently exists, and without it everything dissolves. Prana and Rayi are the “parents” of all things. Creation is their perpetual interaction. As Yogananda wrote in one of his chants: “Spirit and Nature dancing together!” All “creatures”–all that exist in relativity–have sprung from Prana and Rayi. This is why all religions have intuited the existence of a primeval Father and Mother of All.

From: http://ocoy.org/dharma-for-christians/upanishads-for-awakening/the-prashna-upanishad/the-father-and-mother-of-all/

Yin-yang symbolism again, male-female, sun-moon polarities. But this:

Prana and Rayi.

Prana the Father.
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Post by panki on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 7:22 am

@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@panki wrote:I read through the Star Wars Annual comics (canon)...one of the story lines is Luke reading through Ben Kenobi's diaries.....the diary mentions that he lived alone, was a hermit, he still saw himself as a jedi and his whole focus was on keeping Luke safe. Even other characters who discuss him talk of him as a wizard who lived alone and there is no mention of any one else in his life. So I don't think he had any relationships during his stay on Tatooine....but he could have a grandchild if Korkie Kryze is his child with Satine and Korkie survived after Darth Maul killed Satine.
@panki

Yes, the diary is mentioned in that youtube video (over 1 million views) about rey Kenobi theory. Who knows what happened. I think that with Ewan willing to do some movie about Obi Wan, maybe they already planned everything
@Maria Antonietta

I like the rey Kenobi theory....my only issue might be if they show him having a child from a one night stand at the cantina or a meaningless fling....I'd rather it were a child with someone loved like satine.

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Post by Nyx on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 8:05 am

Based totally on looks only, it would kinda be cool if it turned out that her grandparents were Kenobi and Sabé, Padmé's handmaiden/decoy. Especially since one of the arguments about Rey being a Skywalker was that Daisy looks like Natalie Portman but so does Keira Knightley who played Sabé in the prequel. Searching around, I was actually surprised to find that there are Kenobi/Sabe shippers way before the current trilogy was even announced. There's even a youtube video from 2009 of scenes with them. https://youtu.be/NJxx_0BYMwc

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Post by Guest on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 8:48 am

She looks more like Keira than she does Natalie, IMO.

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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 19 Apr 2016, 8:50 am

@Nyx wrote:Based totally on looks only, it would kinda be cool if it turned out that her grandparents were Kenobi and Sabé, Padmé's handmaiden/decoy. Especially since one of the arguments about Rey being a Skywalker was that Daisy looks like Natalie Portman but so does Keira Knightley who played Sabé in the prequel. Searching around, I was actually surprised to find that there are Kenobi/Sabe shippers way before the current trilogy was even announced. There's even a youtube video from 2009 of scenes with them. https://youtu.be/NJxx_0BYMwc
@Nyx

I actually find that Daisy looks a lot more like Keira than Natalie. I've often wondered about Sabé as Rey's grandmother - the looks, the accent, and Keira turned into a star so you could make a commercially viable origin story for Rey with her. She was part of the PT, which is neat, but such a tiny part that she'd basically be an original character with an original story. Even without the Kenobi angle, Sabé was presumably Naboo nobility, so there are many different scenarios you could spin from that.

But I admit that an Obi-Wan spinoff with Ewan and Keira would be a lot of fun to watch!
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