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Post by AnneNeville on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 10:49 pm

Remember when I argued that Kylo did not want to kill Finn in the snow fight, and pointed out that he turned and walked away beating his wounds after he knocked him down the first time? Some didn't think so, some thought his murderous intent and desire to kill was obvious.

But I think this gif of the scene being shot from a different angle really proves my point:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/6890ae0dfd27a1c895a931e38573b5a3/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao1_500.gif

Followed by this one, which shows that Kylo actually did a light saber spin to knock Finn's saber down, then shoved him on the back:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/30489b0d330ad11af0037364a734abdd/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao2_500.gif

Again: Kylo had three chances to kill Finn the Traitor, and he chose not to do it every time.


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Post by Little_Boots on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 10:52 pm

@AnneNeville wrote:Remember when I argued that Kylo did not want to kill Finn in the snow fight, and pointed out that he turned and walked away beating his wounds after he knocked him down the first time? Some didn't think so . . . but I think this gif of the scene being shot from a different angle really shows a lack of intent to kill:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/6890ae0dfd27a1c895a931e38573b5a3/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao1_500.gif

Followed by this one, which shows that Kylo actually did a light saber spin to knock Finn's saber down, then shoved him on the back:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/30489b0d330ad11af0037364a734abdd/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao2_500.gif

Again: Kylo had three chances to kill Finn the Traitor, and he chose not to do it every time.
Well I do agree and I also saw him walking away. Kylo never initiated the fight with Finn and he also didn't initiate it with Rey.
However, the spin slash, couldn't he have knocked Finn out another way?
I was wondering about the spinal slash and what will come of it in the next film. Will Finn be able to use his legs? When your spine is damaged you are basically a goner below the waist.


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Post by AnneNeville on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:06 pm

Just rewatched the scene as presented in the movie, and they shortened it. In the gif from filming, Kylo puts his hand on Finn's back and pushes him head first towards a tree. In the other, we don't see that bit, just the saber twirl and it looks like he continues to push Finn backwards, into a different tree. They shortened and simplified the fight (perhaps removing another attempt at knocking Finn out/down by shoving him into a tree).

For all that people say that punching Finn in the face and (perhaps now) shoving him handily into/towards a tree trunk) is evidence of his viciousness, I'm not sure. Better to be KO'd by a punch or a tree trunk.
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Post by MeadowofAshes on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:14 pm

@AnneNeville That poor tree just can't catch a break! Very Happy
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Post by vaderito on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:18 pm

@AnneNeville wrote:Remember when I argued that Kylo did not want to kill Finn in the snow fight, and pointed out that he turned and walked away beating his wounds after he knocked him down the first time? Some didn't think so, some thought his murderous intent and desire to kill was obvious.

But I think this gif of the scene being shot from a different angle really proves my point:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/6890ae0dfd27a1c895a931e38573b5a3/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao1_500.gif

Followed by this one, which shows that Kylo actually did a light saber spin to knock Finn's saber down, then shoved him on the back:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/30489b0d330ad11af0037364a734abdd/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao2_500.gif

Again: Kylo had three chances to kill Finn the Traitor, and he chose not to do it every time.

OMG, first gif is Kylo beating his wound only shot from the back. Second gif...AD swings his saber like a pro.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:23 pm

@Little_Boots wrote:
@AnneNeville wrote:Remember when I argued that Kylo did not want to kill Finn in the snow fight, and pointed out that he turned and walked away beating his wounds after he knocked him down the first time? Some didn't think so . . . but I think this gif of the scene being shot from a different angle really shows a lack of intent to kill:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/6890ae0dfd27a1c895a931e38573b5a3/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao1_500.gif

Followed by this one, which shows that Kylo actually did a light saber spin to knock Finn's saber down, then shoved him on the back:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/30489b0d330ad11af0037364a734abdd/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao2_500.gif

Again: Kylo had three chances to kill Finn the Traitor, and he chose not to do it every time.
Well I do agree and I also saw him walking away. Kylo never initiated the fight with Finn and he also didn't initiate it with Rey.
However, the spin slash, couldn't he have knocked Finn out another way?
I was wondering about the spinal slash and what will come of it in the next film. Will Finn be able to use his legs? When your spin is damaged you are basically a goner below the waist.
Those gifs are amazing! I'm in total agreement, @AnneNeville.

There's no doubt in my mind he felt compassion for Finn. He saw himself in Finn, just as he saw himself in Rey.

Ren hates the Storm Trooper program, and when he saw a Trooper disobeying his orders he made a conscious decision not to intervene. This was right after he murdered San Tekka. He went from "denying the truth that was his family" to letting a "brainwashed" soldier go against the First Order. It's fascinating and incredibly ironic.

Ren cared enough to look up the Trooper's code number, but he didn't tell Hux or Phasma until it was too late. The next time he saw Finn face-to-face he screamed at him. We've all talked a lot about how Ren is incapable of hiding his emotions, and it was just as true here. Yes, he's mainly referring to himself when he calls Finn a "TRAITOR", but we have to remember that Ren's decision to let Finn go was what started everything. It was this small act of defiance against Snoke and the First Order that resulted in the Droid landing in Han Solo's hands. His anger toward Finn in their final battle was fueled by many different elements—the saber and the "scavenger"—but I would say it mainly had to do with jealousy. Not over Rey, but over the fact that Finn made the choice Ren never could, the choice that haunts Ren, the result of the pull to the Light. And Finn got everything he ever could have dreamed of.

Compassion toward a fellow young man being used as a weapon started everything, and Ren only continued to "confirm" the truth that is his family throughout the film.

Finn is as much a foil to Ren as Rey is. They all contrast each other beautifully. You can see this in their fight, though I'm sure Finn has absolutely no idea just what Ren went through, who he really is or why he let him go. Those are Kylo's secrets, but as I've explained many times, Ren's anger just proves that he has an emotional investment of some kind. He is not indifferent to FN-2187.

Ren's sentiments toward Finn are actually very complex, and I'm really looking forward to their future interactions.

And yes, I'm 100% positive Finn will be able to use his legs. Fantasy =/= reality. I'm sure they have medical abilities in a galaxy far, far away that far exceed our own.


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Post by vaderito on Wed 30 Mar 2016, 11:27 pm

Yeah, Ren and Finn relationship (not in Kylux and Storm Pilot way) has great potential. Not sure they'll follow up but Ren's disagreement with child soldier program and Finn's possible character arc about liberating Storm troopers could put them on the common ground.
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Post by Rogue Rey on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 12:21 am

I seen the reason why there are people who don't think Kylo Ren can be redeemed, because (other than the whole whiny emo kid thing), a lot of them seem to think that Kylo Ren is responsible for the destruction of the Hosnian System. I've seen many comments all over the internet saying 'Kylo Ren murdered Han. He massacred a village. He slaughtered all of Luke's Jedi Padawans. He blew up 5 planets. He tried to kill Finn. He was going to kill Rey.' They're blame placing, and a lot of it seems to fall on this character's shoulders.

It does make you wonder if they watched a completely different film with regards to the destruction of the Hosnian System. I do wonder if they claim Hux is as evil (technically isn't he more evil due to the Hosnian System?)

So I guess when some people just burden all the bad things that happen in a film onto the shoulders of a single character (whether they did or didn't do it all), they're going to be less inclined to believe in a redemption for that character.

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Post by Reynak on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 3:47 am

I'm goint to paste her some musings I wrote for another thread, because they have to do with Kylo's potential redemption and the difficulties to make if palatable for the GA.

I know they won't kill Ren in episode VIII, of that I'm sure, but I have seen too many movies where a character has done something "unforgivable" and I can't remember even one where they stand a chance to survive the ending. There's an incredibly selfless act at the end, where the character dies to save others, and then he/she dies, everyone cries, or not, because with Snape we had that incredibly unticlimantic and boring epilogue but never read or saw the repercussions of that heart-wrenching sacrifice that lasted half of his life. I mean, did anybody cry for him, for judging him wrongly all the time and treating him like an outcast, or rather a "leper" while he buried himself in his youth and worked for the greater good in the shadows?

In the movie there wasn't even time to cry, for God's Sake. With The Prince's tale chapter in the book I must confess I cried a river, and I don't often do when reading. Well, I have seen and read too many stories about redeemed sinners and they always kill them off, because they don't dare defy conventions that have lasted too long. This is what happened with Vader, they thought of exile but in the end, what did they do? What they always do, killing him. No risks there. And then we got those ridiculous Force ghosts because people where OK with forgiving Vader as long as he payed with his life.

I won't say I don't get it because I do. Vader was a genocide and a mass murderer and although he repented, how can that be forgiven?

Also, when people say Vader was worse than Kylo, that's not exactly the case for the GA because Kylo killed his father, which resonates much more for most viewers. Stories are not about the actions themselves but about personalizing, so you may kill bunches of nameless innocents and the GA may forgive you (Many were willing to forgive Loki) but if you kill someone whith a name,an identity, someone people can identify with, that's unforgivable. And apart from killing a son/daughter, the worst thing imaginable is killing a parent. So forget about Alderaan with millions of nameless faces, the ultimante crime for the GA is killing one's father, and if this parent is Han Solo, much worse.

But the character is so tragic and so painful to watch dragging his feet in gloom and living death in the Darkness that thinking of an early death for him after sacrificing himself for the greater good or for someone he loves feels too much for me. I won't say it can't work on screen, people will cry and cry and then forgive him, because then it will feel morally safe to do so,but it will feel so bleak and depressing I won't like it one bit.

Unless they come up with a real ace up their sleeves, glorious self-sacrificing death and then forgiveness is the only thing he can hope for. This is what I thought when I saw the movie, later I thought he was the "prince" under a spell in a tale, and considering it like that, we could be more optimistic.

As for Reylo, that goes without saying, even if they put him down like a rabid dog Reylo will come to be, because nothing else makes sense. Rey's character would become dull without Kylo. Being perfectly pure and perfect, a model for litte girls but with no human flaws or convincing depth would be a disservice for Rey and for Daisy as an actress. Risk and courage, showing humanity and vulnerability,aslo flaws like anyone else, that would make her interesting. For that, the only option is loving Kylo against her own judgement,the whole world and the Force itself if necessary (although the Force approves, of that I am sure). That would be epic and I think it will happen. But if it does happen, the GA may still feel uncomfortable with letting Kylo get away with Killing Han. Many will want blood. Then, they will cry for him but for many his blood will be the price of forgiveness.

In my view, the extent, nature and magnitude of the abuse Ren suffered and how it affected his developing personality and perception of the world (galaxy, LOL) is crucial to find a way to make a redemption arc with a second chance for him work for the GA. The more damaged he was, the more fair and justified it will seem to give him a chance. If what Snoke did was not so terrible, they there's no way the writers can make it palatable for the GA that he should find redemption.
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Post by vaderito on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 4:02 am

I have a question - what does Ring Composition mean for Kylo's Redemption? This is how previous trilogies ended, each with the cycle of life and death:

ROTS aka end of TP

Funeral/Death - Padme
Birth/Life - Luke and Leia
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Anakin "dies" and is "born" as Vader
Bonus point: Brobi1 is watching over new generation

ROTJ aka end of OT

Funeral/Death - Vader
Birth/Life - no real birth but grown up babies from TP are celebrating and Leia has found a mate implying children (birth) in the future
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Vader dies while Anakin emerges as a Force Ghost
Bonus point: Brobi1 continues to watch over

Episode IX aka end of ST

Death/Funeral - smart money's on an OT character (likely Browalker)
Birth/Life - unless the last Brolo-Browalker bites it (and moves into Death/Funeral) and his children have to be born as a hope for the future and completing the cycle of life and death, Ben Brolo and other ST characters will live, maybe even celebrating, implying that there will be birth in the future. They continue Life.
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Someone dies and becomes Force Ghost (Luke?) or symbolically dies as one person and is symbolically re-born as another (Kylo dies, rebirth of Ben?)
Bonus point: Where's Brobi1 to watch over new generation?

Any thoughts?
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Post by MeadowofAshes on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 4:26 am

@vaderito wrote:I have a question - what does Ring Composition mean for Kylo's Redemption? This is how previous trilogies ended, each with the cycle of life and death:

ROTS aka end of TP

Funeral/Death - Padme
Birth/Life - Luke and Leia
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Anakin "dies" and is "born" as Vader
Bonus point: Brobi1 is watching over new generation

ROTJ aka end of OT

Funeral/Death - Vader
Birth/Life - no real birth but grown up babies from TP are celebrating and Leia has found a mate implying children (birth) in the future
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Vader dies while Anakin emerges as a Force Ghost
Bonus point: Brobi1 continues to watch over

Episode IX aka end of ST

Death/Funeral - smart money's on an OT character (likely Browalker)
Birth/Life - unless the last Brolo-Browalker bites it (and moves into Death/Funeral) and his children have to be born as a hope for the future and completing the cycle of life and death, Ben Brolo and other ST characters will live, maybe even celebrating, implying that there will be birth in the future. They continue Life.
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Someone dies and becomes Force Ghost (Luke?) or symbolically dies as one person and is symbolically re-born as another (Kylo dies, rebirth of Ben?)
Bonus point: Where's Brobi1 to watch over new generation?

Any thoughts?

For sure Kylo dies and is reborn as Ben. Now whether this is symbolic or literal is another story, but my head canon has Kylo at the brink of death to save Rey's life, so she uses their force bond to retrieve his soul and heal him enough to fight.
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Post by MoonFyre on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 4:47 am

More hints of redemption from the blu ray:

"It was an interesting process that I had never done before, to be able to tell a lot of story without actually being seen. And then what is the difference when he takes off his mask? What do you find?

Instead of this menacing figure that you're used to someone that's kind of more mustache-twirly and obvious, you find that it was actually someone more human."


- Adam Driver

http://adamdouglasdriver.tumblr.com/post/141978585802
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Post by vaderito on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 4:52 am

Does anyone have a link to actual video? I'm dying. There's partial video on Yahoo mostly fight.
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Post by MoonFyre on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 5:36 am

This is what I've found so far:

Kylo vs Finn

http://gwencocos.tumblr.com/post/141979667296/john-on-adams-enthusiasmbeing-scared-shitless-of

Like @AnneNeville has stated, Kylo chose not to kill Finn despite of many chances.
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Post by Search Your Feelings on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 8:19 am

Some of my reasons for a Kylo Redemption (I'm sure I'll forget some):

1. Han's sacrifice will mean something.  It will help save Kylo's soul and the galaxy from Snoke and the FO.  Otherwise Han just died with no consequence.  He tried but died anyway <--  That's not a satisfying ending for such a beloved character.
2. For Leia, I mean c'mon.
3. For Luke.
4. For Ben Solo.  Kylo needs to ask forgiveness from Ben Solo.
5. For Rey because they have that connection and tptb aren't just going to waste this opportunity for two OP Force Users to just fight each other to the death every time. Boring.
6. To introduce the new Force powers we've never seen before.  The Force Bond between something other than Master/Apprentice.
7. They shouldn't waste the opportunity for a UST FS pairing like Revan/Bastila.
8. They wouldn't have cast a great character actor like Adam Driver.  His eyes just don't look like a 100% evil villain.
9. Ben Solo's backstory.  The fact that he was preyed on since he was a child is huge.  He was an abused child.  There has to be a message of hope somewhere about that.  SW is about hope not be depressing as f***. The fact that we're going to get to see more of Ben's backstory is a huge tell).
10. All his actions in the movie/script/novel points to a conflicted villain on a redemption path. (The way he treated and acted around and about Rey, the way he felt after killing Han, the way he feels about Snoke, the way he feels about Hux and the FO, the way he saved Rey and was in her Forcebacks, the way he trashes inanimate objects)
11. For the OT.  Why p** all over it and the Trio?  Watching the OT won't ever be the same again.  The very relationships between the Trio will be tarnished forever.
12. The photoshoots/talk about Adam before and after the movie (tptb loved him, KK's interview about SW context and real life)
13. The way tptb let Adam Driver do the SNL skit and Matt the Radar Technician, basically endearing him to the public.
14. All that self hatred, angst and confusion.  He's not cut out for a 100% villain.  He's a big wannabe. Dangerous, powerful, and makes bad and evil decisions, but not 100% soulless. (I can show you the ways of the "Force" rather than the Darkside).
15. All the holes in the character arc/backstory we haven't seen yet that could be further proof of Redemption.

Hm that's all I can think of to list for now.
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Post by AnneNeville on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 1:00 pm

@MoonFyre wrote:This is what I've found so far:

Kylo vs Finn

http://gwencocos.tumblr.com/post/141979667296/john-on-adams-enthusiasmbeing-scared-shitless-of

Like @AnneNeville has stated, Kylo chose not to kill Finn despite of many chances.

If only John Boyega had said as much in the interview, it would be case-closed. But the visuals IMHO support my point. It isn't just an actor doing a staged fight (IE, on stage you use illusion to make it look like a hit has landed when it has not). Kylo is trying to down Finn without killing.

Maybe he did kind of enjoy the arm-burn thing (fight=adreniline) but again, it was done to disarm Finn by taking out his sword arm. Finn swipes Kylo's sword-shoulder right before Kylo decides to put an end to the tussle.

I feel so vindicated.
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Post by vaderito on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 5:56 pm

From Blue Ray documentary



He was by far the most difficult character to nail down. J.J. was our barometer. He looked at hundreds of sketches, and the design that we had in the helmet, suddenly we thought of it as being chromed. I like the idea of light being reflected.” || Kylo Ren’s character design process

http://gwencocos.tumblr.com/post/141978633466/he-was-by-far-the-most-difficult-character-to

Hmmmmm.
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Post by Darth Dementor on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 7:00 am

@Little_Boots wrote:
@AnneNeville wrote:Remember when I argued that Kylo did not want to kill Finn in the snow fight, and pointed out that he turned and walked away beating his wounds after he knocked him down the first time? Some didn't think so . . . but I think this gif of the scene being shot from a different angle really shows a lack of intent to kill:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/6890ae0dfd27a1c895a931e38573b5a3/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao1_500.gif

Followed by this one, which shows that Kylo actually did a light saber spin to knock Finn's saber down, then shoved him on the back:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/30489b0d330ad11af0037364a734abdd/tumblr_o4v9korOr81qaa3xao2_500.gif

Again: Kylo had three chances to kill Finn the Traitor, and he chose not to do it every time.
Well I do agree and I also saw him walking away. Kylo never initiated the fight with Finn and he also didn't initiate it with Rey.
However, the spin slash, couldn't he have knocked Finn out another way?
I was wondering about the spinal slash and what will come of it in the next film. Will Finn be able to use his legs? When your spine is damaged you are basically a goner below the waist.

Kylo did goud Finn into fighting him by yelling traitor at him.

And this is Star Wars, where people lose limbs and go on without skipping a beat. Given the fact his character is horseback riding with someone (who I'm sure is Tran's character) I'm sure he will make a full recovery. Most importantly I don't think the franchise wants their dueteragonist as a paraplegic.

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Post by Reynak on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 8:46 am

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@vaderito wrote:I have a question - what does Ring Composition mean for Kylo's Redemption? This is how previous trilogies ended, each with the cycle of life and death:

ROTS aka end of TP

Funeral/Death - Padme
Birth/Life - Luke and Leia
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Anakin "dies" and is "born" as Vader
Bonus point: Brobi1 is watching over new generation

ROTJ aka end of OT

Funeral/Death - Vader
Birth/Life - no real birth but grown up babies from TP are celebrating and Leia has found a mate implying children (birth) in the future
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Vader dies while Anakin emerges as a Force Ghost
Bonus point: Brobi1 continues to watch over

Episode IX aka end of ST

Death/Funeral - smart money's on an OT character (likely Browalker)
Birth/Life - unless the last Brolo-Browalker bites it (and moves into Death/Funeral) and his children have to be born as a hope for the future and completing the cycle of life and death, Ben Brolo and other ST characters will live, maybe even celebrating, implying that there will be birth in the future. They continue Life.
Death/Birth aka 2 in 1 - Someone dies and becomes Force Ghost (Luke?) or symbolically dies as one person and is symbolically re-born as another (Kylo dies, rebirth of Ben?)
Bonus point: Where's Brobi1 to watch over new generation?

Any thoughts?

For sure Kylo dies and is reborn as Ben. Now whether this is symbolic or literal is another story, but my head canon has Kylo at the brink of death to save Rey's life, so she uses their force bond to retrieve his soul and heal him enough to fight.

@vaderito,
What if the Death/Funeral is Han Solo's (OT too) and Luke stays alive to play Obi Wan's role in the previous trilogies watching the next generation?

For me the problem with Ben's redemption is what Kylo has done, not only killing Han but also San Tekka and ordering the villagers' execution. Patricide is the most dramatic point in his villainy, because of the emotional weight it carries for the adience, not only because Han is one of the dearest OT characters but because he was Ben's father, so other than killing a son (or daughter), which not even Vader could do, that's the worst and most dehumanizing action a character/person can do. That's where the barrier stands but I'm convinced they have thought of a way to get over this somehow.

Some people prefer Kylo to have killed all those people, including Han,because at some point her really was evil, but for me, unless there was some reason like a greater good , for instance, to do that, it won't work, I'm afraid. If he doesn't have some reason that pushed him to do that, and power or ruling the galaxy himself to bring order won't do it for me either, his redemption won't be satisfactory to me. I won't be able to care for the character the way I do now no matter what he does to compensate, however grand it is, unless he dies in the process.

That's how my mind works and many other people's too. This doesn't mean I think death is the prize anyone has to pay to atone if they have taken other people's lives because that would be an incredibly harmful message which implies that once a criminal or murderer it isn't worth to repent and redeem oneself. If the best you can expect is forgiveness after death many would conclude it is better to continue being a "villain" and survive. Wrong message, absolutely rotten.

People need reasons to change their ways and this would mean doing just the opposite. So I could "forgive" Ben but not love him as a character the way I want to do. I need for Rey to love someone I could love myself and I wouldn't be able to do that unless he was forced to do it to some extent. This doesn't mean he isn't responsible for his actions, it is about being able to allow myself to love the character and thus accept Rey loving him.

If this was another sort of story, a grittier one, I could manage to come to terms with the implications of rooting for a character who's done such things. I can even digest you can love a person who has done things that you could never forgive completely because love is someonetimes unconditional and organic to that extent but this is not what I need to continue emotionally invested with this character the way I do now. The actor has made me feel the character may be placed in the villain's role but he is in fact a tragic figure and a lost child trapped in a web of monstrous Darkness. Once he was an abused child, groomed into a sort of zombie that has never lived since Snoke sank his claws into his flesh (in a figurative sense), so I need a way to recover that kid he was to some extent, that kid still you can still see when you look into Kylo/Ben's eyes. I think that child will definitely die inside him if there is nothing to cling to and this can't be Leia's and Rey's love, there must be something else.

I know others don't see it this way but I need to allow myself to love this character. Emotionally he has already managed this but I need the story to give me reasons that let me go on loving him that work from an intellectual point of view. This is not the kind of movie where I have to feel unesy for empathising with a murderer and, which is how I felt after watching it at the theatre. Han wants us to forgive his son like he did but I am not his parent, I need resons to not just forgive him but contienue loving this character without feeling tainted for doing so.


Last edited by Reynak on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 9:58 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Search Your Feelings on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 9:07 am

Just look at Harrison Ford's words, taken from another post.

"His (Han Solo) destiny is resolved in a powerful and effective way … I wanted Han Solo to be able to lend some significant emotional weight to the story. I was resolved to be useful, to pass on responsibility to others and then get out of the way. We’re not kidding here, this is serious stuff – and we wanted it to be right.

The unique and very deeply emotional and troubling way in which Han Solo meets his fate, I thought, gives an incredible opportunity and helps realize the full potential of the character that Adam Driver plays" - Harrison Ford.

Incredible opportunity for the Full Potential of Kylo Ren. Doesn't sound like Kylo's full potential will be just to become darker and then be put down like a dog by Leia. Rolling Eyes
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Post by Little_Boots on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 9:15 am

@Search Your Feelings wrote:Just look at Harrison Ford's words, taken from another post.

"His (Han Solo) destiny is resolved in a powerful and effective way … I wanted Han Solo to be able to lend some significant emotional weight to the story. I was resolved to be useful, to pass on responsibility to others and then get out of the way. We’re not kidding here, this is serious stuff – and we wanted it to be right.

The unique and very deeply emotional and troubling way in which Han Solo meets his fate, I thought, gives an incredible opportunity and helps realize the full potential of the character that Adam Driver plays" - Harrison Ford.

Incredible opportunity for the Full Potential of Kylo Ren. Doesn't sound like Kylo's full potential will be just to become darker and then be put down like a dog by Leia. Rolling Eyes

And yet Evil council folks think "nonsense, Adam Driver doesn't know what he is talking about" which also must mean that Harrison Ford has no clue what he is talking about. Ugh
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Post by vaderito on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 3:03 pm

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced @FrolickingFizzgig gave the best explanation. When the SUN is drained of the light, weapon is charged, darkness falls and, at that moment, the SON charges his weapon and kills his father. That's the infamous Manchurian!Kylo look that we got after he was genuinely ready to go with Han. But the SUN was born again, foreshadowing re-birth of the SON (whose real name Ben means Son).

Also:

ARCHIVE: Can Kylo Be Redeemed? - 1 - Page 5 Tumblr_o4xgoe5yhz1qkbiaio1_400

"the Force awakens in a young woman and DS in the villain"

Yin and Yang, they need each other to create balance. "the villain" instead of "a young man" means "Kylo not Finn or Poe for those who like to over-speculate". The "journey of 2 people" is about them.
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Post by rey09 on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 6:03 pm

Probably not anything huge but just realized that Solo has sol. Sol = sun. Ben = son in hebrew.

Though etymologically speaking sol for sun and solitary from which solo comes from are not linked from what I could find.

Ben is the sun, Rey shines forth from it, and they illuminate the galaxy together Smile
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Post by Sylvia Snow on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 7:34 pm

I've been waiting for this ever since the released of the cut scene
ARCHIVE: Can Kylo Be Redeemed? - 1 - Page 5 650x366

ARCHIVE: Can Kylo Be Redeemed? - 1 - Page 5 Han10

No matter how much Vader in him, Kylo could never deny that there also a Solo in him  Zen
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Post by vaderito on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 7:41 pm

@rey09 wrote:Probably not anything huge but just realized that Solo has sol. Sol = sun. Ben = son in hebrew.

Though etymologically speaking sol for sun and solitary from which solo comes from are not linked from what I could find.

Ben is the sun, Rey shines forth from it, and they illuminate the galaxy together Smile

It's quite possible where they got the idea for sun/son. Rey of Sunlight, Rey of Sol-light. or this ship and Kylo's redemption write themselves instinctively.

@Sylvia Snow Totally. he cannot deny the truth that is his family - both Skywalker and Solo. I'm so pumped to see Ben fly MF, hopefully not a suicide flight where he crashes it into Star Killer 2.0 or something to save the day.

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