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Post by guardienne on Tue 26 Jul 2016, 10:26 am

@motherofpearl1 i have heard fo the padded room as well...

the character is very well characterised, in broad strokes as well as a lot of filigree. it does remind me of reading hamlet and trying to figure out whether he was depressed.. well, yeah, sort of, but in a fictional way. with a plot doing things. with fate intervening.

if kylo was 'real', he would be dead by now, no, killed himself with the sheer exhaustion of feeling so unloved and unwanted. of having the function of a very effective weapon. that'd drive everyone insane.

and the thing is, it sort of does.

so it's hard to tell.

and it's function of mythology to model narrative for readers and viewers. it isn't just there to entertain us, it's there to teach us. and star wars i think takes this serious.

so, recovery (i'm kinda avoiding 'redemption' because i'm not sure what it really means to me) is a way to honour the function of myth, to allow us to claim our history and our selves as our own and move on from there. idk, to me that's the best bit. (there's a whole bunch of things i and others have written for the trauma thread that goes into this with more detail.)

i continue to find it strange that i identify so greatly with a character who is nothing like me at all in many ways. i am not kylo at all, and yet i totally am. that really messes with my mind.

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 26 Jul 2016, 10:52 am

I think he resonates with all of us who've felt unloved or unwanted at some time in our lives, or who have gone through some experience that's made us hate ourselves.
I am probably wrong here, but I see him as a man hiding not just behind a literal mask, but hiding behind a false image of someone utterly confident, utterly without fear and full of himself - but inside he's frightened, lost and confused. Which is why he ran from Rey like a startled rabbit because she was the only person to see him as he truly was.

Back in the real world...I wonder if part of the reason Adam plays him so well is because he's had his own insecurities in regard with the nasty comments about his looks?
Or he's just good at being emotional? Very Happy
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Post by Macha Ren on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 7:30 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Macha Ren wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:There's quite a double standard at work with some hardcore fans who hate the idea of Kylo earning Rey's forgiveness, compassion or understanding of any kind. As others have said, Luke's compassion and Vader's sacrifice defined Star Wars. That Rey couldn't feel compassion - which is something that's central to Jedi teachings - does not seem at all in keeping with the genre and meaning of this saga. It's not Resident Evil or Kill Bill, and a heroine being able to forgive is a strength, not a weakness.

There are also fans who insist on Rey not being anything to do with Kylo's redemption, that it should only be Leia and Luke involved. To me, that undermines Rey's role as the protagonist. She wouldn't be a prop in Kylo's story - if anything, he's a prop in hers.
@BastilaBey Spot on. And not only is Rey not feeling compassion toward Kylo antithetical to the values of SW, it's completely out of character for her. This is Rey who, in spite of her tough exterior, saved BB-8 from the desert, chose not to sell him for more rations than she'd likely ever seen in her life, and chose to complete the mission rather than run away with Finn. Rey who, in spite of scarring a disarmed Kylo out of rage, looked back at him across the ravine and then back in his direction again before boarding the Falcon. She's like Han, all heart. Girl's a walking embodiment of compassion.
@MeadowofAshes

or we just call spade spade. They know their ship sunk and are now grasping at straws that could (in their wishful thinking) sink ours. No compassion, no romance. No redemption, no romance. It's "my ship sunk yours must too". That's the gist of "Rey should be unattached Jedi cause she needs no man if I can't get my ship to sail" and "Rey will lose her agency if she forgives/has compassion for Kylo cause the story leads to their romance and I support ship that Reylo sinks" It has nothing to do with "concern for young girls" "progress", etc. Classic ship war.

So they try to deny SW's essence which is love, compassion, hope, forgiveness, etc because they see where the story is going and that sinks their ships, headcanons and other castles in the clouds they built around things that aren't in the movie cause that's not the story (Ship, Ship Force Bond - they even have to copy Reylo cause they have no idea what to do with their ship since there's nothing in the movie that supports it or foreshadow future, Reywalker, Jedi!Finn). Shipper war.
@vaderito

It goes beyond just that, there are some that want him to suffer eternally--no love or compassion from anyone, restlessness, ostracized, labeled a criminal forever with the hopes that this version of mercy where he is denied death, he becomes so miserable that he kills himself.

Oh yes, those are the tenets of the Jedi, apparently. Torture someone mentally until they commit suicide.

That is how ugly this shipper war has become.
@Macha Ren

Particularly sad as the character is supposedly mentally ill.
Which leaves me wondering : what exactly is wrong with him? I've heard it said he has Borderline Personality Disorder, but I couldn't help notice that he seemed in control to a degree during his bouts of rage - when her first destroyed the computer in front of Mitaka he managed to get himself calmed down to a degree afterwards and I saw an interview with a Borderline sufferer who candidly said when he has a psychotic episode he has to be handcuffed.
He seems to have some kind of depressive disorder, definitely.
@motherofpearl1

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Macha Ren wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:There's quite a double standard at work with some hardcore fans who hate the idea of Kylo earning Rey's forgiveness, compassion or understanding of any kind. As others have said, Luke's compassion and Vader's sacrifice defined Star Wars. That Rey couldn't feel compassion - which is something that's central to Jedi teachings - does not seem at all in keeping with the genre and meaning of this saga. It's not Resident Evil or Kill Bill, and a heroine being able to forgive is a strength, not a weakness.

There are also fans who insist on Rey not being anything to do with Kylo's redemption, that it should only be Leia and Luke involved. To me, that undermines Rey's role as the protagonist. She wouldn't be a prop in Kylo's story - if anything, he's a prop in hers.
@BastilaBey Spot on. And not only is Rey not feeling compassion toward Kylo antithetical to the values of SW, it's completely out of character for her. This is Rey who, in spite of her tough exterior, saved BB-8 from the desert, chose not to sell him for more rations than she'd likely ever seen in her life, and chose to complete the mission rather than run away with Finn. Rey who, in spite of scarring a disarmed Kylo out of rage, looked back at him across the ravine and then back in his direction again before boarding the Falcon. She's like Han, all heart. Girl's a walking embodiment of compassion.
@MeadowofAshes

or we just call spade spade. They know their ship sunk and are now grasping at straws that could (in their wishful thinking) sink ours. No compassion, no romance. No redemption, no romance. It's "my ship sunk yours must too". That's the gist of "Rey should be unattached Jedi cause she needs no man if I can't get my ship to sail" and "Rey will lose her agency if she forgives/has compassion for Kylo cause the story leads to their romance and I support ship that Reylo sinks" It has nothing to do with "concern for young girls" "progress", etc. Classic ship war.

So they try to deny SW's essence which is love, compassion, hope, forgiveness, etc because they see where the story is going and that sinks their ships, headcanons and other castles in the clouds they built around things that aren't in the movie cause that's not the story (Ship, Ship Force Bond - they even have to copy Reylo cause they have no idea what to do with their ship since there's nothing in the movie that supports it or foreshadow future, Reywalker, Jedi!Finn). Shipper war.
@vaderito

It goes beyond just that, there are some that want him to suffer eternally--no love or compassion from anyone, restlessness, ostracized, labeled a criminal forever with the hopes that this version of mercy where he is denied death, he becomes so miserable that he kills himself.

Oh yes, those are the tenets of the Jedi, apparently. Torture someone mentally until they commit suicide.

That is how ugly this shipper war has become.
@Macha Ren

Particularly sad as the character is supposedly mentally ill.
Which leaves me wondering : what exactly is wrong with him? I've heard it said he has Borderline Personality Disorder, but I couldn't help notice that he seemed in control to a degree during his bouts of rage - when her first destroyed the computer in front of Mitaka he managed to get himself calmed down to a degree afterwards and I saw an interview with a Borderline sufferer who candidly said when he has a psychotic episode he has to be handcuffed.
He seems to have some kind of depressive disorder, definitely.
@motherofpearl1

Honestly I think the illness that will manifest most will be post traumatic stress. That said, would be surprised that he is the one to have a very disturbing flashback in the next film manifesting as just that, an unbidden flashback.

This is a character that was groomed and Force molested since childhood. Hell yeah he's going to be twitchy and have triggers. He lost any sense of safety decades ago. And whatever remains of Ben Solo hidden beneath those layers of black is in fight or flight mode. He needs to reclaim a sense of safety if there is to be redemption which is why an open hand will work better with him than a closed fist any day of the week. Han tried that route and failed, but now Kylo Ren is drowning even further in despair. I don't think he'll turn down that offer a second time. Han's death was a turning point for him. He will hit rock bottom in Ep VIII. After that, the only way out is up.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 7:42 am

Interesting you should mention this...
http://moviepilot.com/posts/3747146
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Post by Macha Ren on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 11:01 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Interesting you should mention this...
http://moviepilot.com/posts/3747146
@motherofpearl1

My point exactly.

So if we have this damaged, sympathetic character that wants to find his way back to the light and feels utter lost, he truly needs a guide. Someone that isn't going to seek vengeance over mercy.

I was watching the King's Speech last night with friend last night and it really dawned on me, this, to a certain extent is also Ben's story. A guide (his speech therapist Lionel Logue who understood speech therapy because he understood shell-shocked war veterans) helped Bertie, and Ben will need one to help him.

Quick summary: Bertie (future King George VI of Britain had a horrible stammer. He struggled with public speaking. His father thought he was weak because of it. He was ridiculed by both his father George V and his brother David (Edward VIII). Yet in an very intimate conversation with his therapist, he reveals his stammer didn't appear until he was 4 or 5 but he also discloses he was abused by a nanny that hated him.

When asked about nannies, Bertie says, "Not my first nanny, though… she loved David, hated me. When I was presented to my parents for the daily viewing, she'd...she pinched me so I'd cry and be sent away at once, then she wouldn't feed me. Took my parents three years to notice. As you can imagine, it caused some stomach problems. Still."

So here you have a heir (much like Ben Solo), crippled by fear his whole life, never quite healed from traumas in his childhood that is suddenly expected to be great. One (Ben) falters horribly as he comes of age because of his traumas. One (Bertie) would've crashed and burned but he had two lifelines: his wife who wouldn't give up on him, and his speech therapist that truly did pull him out of the pit of despair.

It's an odd parallel, but it seems to fit for each.

If Kylo is to embrace his inner Ben and head toward the light, he's going to need someone to reach out and stop him from drowning. It's amazing how powerful that open hand has over someone trapped by inertia.

I think his mother's fate in Ep VIII (will she survive her coma) may be a motivating factor in getting him to regain his own compassion, but he's going to need a guide to help him on that journey. Absolutely convinced that Rey will be that guide.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 11:21 am

I think that the big difference between Rey and Kylo's parents is:
Understanding.

Han was an orphan. Leia was adopted but her adoptive parents were kind and loving. So were Luke's for that matter. We know Han and Leia loved their boy, but because their backgrounds were so different they didn't understand.
Rey was abandoned. Kylo sees himself as abandoned. Rey was lonely all her life. So was Kylo, not because he wasn't loved, but because he wasn't understood. His family looked at him and saw Darth Vader.
The only person who can save him is someone who's walked in his skin.
I will say this - Rey will have to accept Kylo Ren before she can bring back Ben Solo. In other words find someone worth loving in the man he's become rather than constantly mourning the man he was.
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Post by Macha Ren on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 11:47 am

oh I agree. Rey has to help Kylo so that he, and he alone can shed that skin and find what it means to live his life as Ben Solo.
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Post by BastilaBey on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 11:54 am

I also see Rey as a critical factor in Kylo's redemption, and I facepalm so hard when I see fans protesting that this would somehow weaken her or turn her into a 'damsel'. She will never ever be a damsel, because she is the protagonist. She's the protagonist of the force plot, Finn is the protagonist of the resistance plot. She has agency, she's strong, she's smart and compassionate. Developing compassion and empathy for her adversary doesn't take any of that away, and if it ever did, it would be down to a failure in the execution, not the premise itself. We know already that compassion is essential for the Jedi, and as part of her journey as a heroine, she will need to learn more about the villain and how he came to be this way.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 11:58 am

I can't help but think that if people see Rey feeling compassion for Kylo is 'weakness', then they're acting like Snoke!!
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Post by CienaRee on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 12:15 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I can't help but think that if people see Rey feeling compassion for Kylo is 'weakness', then they're acting like Snoke!!
@motherofpearl1
Right?It just frustrates me to no end that it's most likley because idolzie her and think she's a little girl who needs protection frombad evil Kylo. the father-son relationship between Luke and Vader.I'm not even sure it's about sexism because I haven't seen anyone  questioning how Luke can love Vader agter all the atsrocaties he's commited and for that matter they're not really blaming Leia or calling her weak for loving and wnating her son back eventhough she's aware he's done horribale things.I certantly don't see anyone saying how loving your parent/child despite him being a killer sends an awful message to people so where is this crap coming from?
I also completly agree about Rey finding something of worth to love in Kylo as the man he is.I mean even if he redeems himself he'll never be the Ben Solo from before.Too much has happened and Kylo himself seems to believe it's too late for him to be that person again.Some people say that Kylo is delusional and while that is true to an extent I think deep down he knows fully well that what he's doing is wrong and that Snoke is evi(him telling Han it's too late for him is a goof example of it) but he chooses to ignore it because it's easier to live beliving you're doing a right thing than live in guilt.


Last edited by CienaRee on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 12:27 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by CienaRee on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 12:18 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:I also see Rey as a critical factor in Kylo's redemption, and I facepalm so hard when I see fans protesting that this would somehow weaken her or turn her into a 'damsel'. She will never ever be a damsel, because she is the protagonist. She's the protagonist of the force plot, Finn is the protagonist of the resistance plot. She has agency, she's strong, she's smart and compassionate. Developing compassion and empathy for her adversary doesn't take any of that away, and if it ever did, it would be down to a failure in the execution, not the premise itself. We know already that compassion is essential for the Jedi, and as part of her journey as a heroine, she will need to learn more about the villain and how he came to be this way.
@BastilaBey
Exactly.I'm seeing some antis saying how Kylo redeeming himself shouldn't involve Rey or rescuing her in any way and I'm like these two things can co-exist with each other.He can still feel inspired by Rey and end up helping her while realizing the mistakes he's made.Sometimes I don't really know why some people are so opposite this idea or find it cliche when it could be a pretty amazing storyline with some great character development with Kylo and rey's characters.

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Post by Kessel on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 12:26 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I can't help but think that if people see Rey feeling compassion for Kylo is 'weakness', then they're acting like Snoke!!
@motherofpearl1

Yes! That sounds exactly like one of the tenets of Snoke's "teachings." Ironic that so many antis' view of Rey exhibiting compassion (a weakness) would make the Supreme Leader very proud.

I have no doubt these antis are going to be sorely disappointed because I'm pretty sure we're not going to be seeing Snoke's philosophy winning the day...
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Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 12:33 pm

Kessel89 wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I can't help but think that if people see Rey feeling compassion for Kylo is 'weakness', then they're acting like Snoke!!
@motherofpearl1

Yes! That sounds exactly like one of the tenets of Snoke's "teachings." Ironic that so many antis' view of Rey exhibiting compassion (a weakness) would make the Supreme Leader very proud.

I have no doubt these antis are going to be sorely disappointed because I'm pretty sure we're not going to be seeing Snoke's philosophy winning the day...
@Kessel89

yeah, compassion was never a weakness in SW. Compassion is unconditional love and that's strength. In fairytales, love is the greatest strength. So I don't know what they think SW is, but it's a saga where unconditional love is the greatest strength. According to Pablo, Anakin's love for Padme was not unconditional hence cluster****.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 12:40 pm

@CienaRee wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I can't help but think that if people see Rey feeling compassion for Kylo is 'weakness', then they're acting like Snoke!!
@motherofpearl1
Right?It just frustrates me to no end that it's most likley because idolzie her and think she's a little girl who needs protection frombad evil Kylo. the father-son relationship between Luke and Vader.I'm not even sure it's about sexism because I haven't seen anyone  questioning how Luke can love Vader agter all the atsrocaties he's commited and for that matter they're not really blaming Leia or calling her weak for loving and wnating her son back eventhough she's aware he's done horribale things.I certantly don't see anyone saying how loving your parent/child despite him being a killer sends an awful message to people so where is this crap coming from?
I also completly agree about Rey finding something of worth to love in Kylo as the man he is.I mean even if he redeems himself he'll never be the Ben Solo from before.Too much has happened and Kylo himself seems to believe it's too late for him to be that person again.Some people say that Kylo is delusional and while that is true to an extent I think deep down he knows fully well that what he's doing is wrong and that Snoke is evi(him telling Han it's too late for him is a goof example of it) but he chooses to ignore it because it's easier to live beliving you're doing a right thing than live in guilt.
@CienaRee

I'm sure he does know.

I see him as someone who has been made to see compassion and kindness as 'weaknesses' and cruelty and callousness as 'strength'. I've said this before, but I think he is trying to copy Hux. Hux believes absolutely in the righteousness of his 'cause', Kylo keeps trying to convince himself of it, hence his comments about the 'pull to the light'. I think he sees himself as pathetic, foolish and weak. Just what made this man feel this way we don't know, but it's so heartbreaking because he's actually very strong. He's scared, scared of his own emotions, scared that he's a failure, but he hides his fear behind this arrogant, ruthless front. Courage is fear mastered, not being unafraid. He's clearly sick, but he fights it - he has meltdowns but he constantly battles them. Leia, when she was pregnant, sensed her son's inner strength.

I find it so sad that he's embraced the 'darkness' because it makes him feel strong, yet he's neevr been weak - he just doesn't realise that.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 12:50 pm

I don't know why people are concerned about whether Rey will find something to love about Kylo. Great romances are about beating the odds, going against the world, seeing something in someone that no one else does, etc. You can't have an epic cinematic or literary romance if everyone goes "oh, you should totally hook up him him/her, such a nice guy/girl". You know, when everyone sees the same, that someone is nice and therefore should hook up with another nice person. In Reylo case, nobody would approve, least of all Snoke. I mean, if Snoke heard Teacher!Kylo he would go into cardiac. So it's up to Rey and Kylo to fight for their love against everyone including the Force. That's what romance is about, not safe crap.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 12:58 pm

@vaderito wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I can't help but think that if people see Rey feeling compassion for Kylo is 'weakness', then they're acting like Snoke!!
@motherofpearl1

Yes! That sounds exactly like one of the tenets of Snoke's "teachings." Ironic that so many antis' view of Rey exhibiting compassion (a weakness) would make the Supreme Leader very proud.

I have no doubt these antis are going to be sorely disappointed because I'm pretty sure we're not going to be seeing Snoke's philosophy winning the day...
@Kessel89

yeah, compassion was never a weakness in SW. Compassion is unconditional love and that's strength. In fairytales, love is the greatest strength. So I don't know what they think SW is, but it's a saga where unconditional love is the greatest strength. According to Pablo, Anakin's love for Padme was not unconditional hence cluster****.
@vaderito
Pablo constantly says Luke "redeemed" Vader. That's how he describes it. Luke was the only one who could have driven Vader to see the light again after 20+ years of Force Sensitive child hunting and murder. That doesn't mean Vader had no free-will. Love for his son brought him to use that free-will to make the "right" decision. That's why the double-standard with Rey is absolutely astounding to me. It's imperative that she grow to understand her enemy's past and present so she can stop herself from going down the same path, and in the meantime, she can influence him to make the right choices just like Luke influenced Vader. Rey is the light that will break through the darkness that has overcome the last Skywalker, and that's an awesome story!

I don't understand why anybody would want to sit down and watch Kylo get "darker" for two movies. That kind of story only worked in the prequels because it was the tale of light to darkness. Darkness to... more darkness? Where's the story in that? He's already done the worst evil he could possibly do in the SW universe. Nothing can or will ever match killing Han. There's nowhere for his story as a villain to go from here, and that's one of a million reasons it's so clear he's been set up for unique development alongside the heroine. People can either hope for Kylo to be warped into a boring, one-dimensional villain who can only support so many scenes or actual character development, and I think it's damn obvious which one is going to come to fruition.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:04 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig According to antis:

SW Episode VII:Kylo's Denying the Truth About His family

SW Episode VIII: Totally denying

SW Episode IX: Still Totally Denying

.
.
.
SW Episode XII: Twelve Years a Denial
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:06 pm

They hate him because he killed Han.
I've loved Han Solo for decades, and that's why I want him to be redeemed. If these folks have any real affection for Han and Leia they'll want their broken, not 'evil' child to find some kind of happiness. Because if he doesn't Han and Leia's love will be pointless, and Han's death will mean nothing. how any fans of the OT cast can want this is beyond me. Mad
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:09 pm

@vaderito wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig According to antis:

SW Episode VII:Kylo's Denying the Truth About His family

SW Episode VIII: Totally denying

SW Episode IX: Still Totally Denying

.
.
.
SW Episode XII: Twelve Years a Denial
@vaderito
LOL THIS IS SO TRUE.

Also this:

Episode VII: Rey can't find her family.
Episode VIII: Rey faces no more challenges because she found Luke, her father.
Episode IX: ...
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Post by Macha Ren on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:10 pm

part of the reason the antis don't want Rey to be compassionate sounds a lot like the plot to Footloose

music leads to dancing leads to touching leads to feelings leads to ZOMG sex.

Seriously, that is their argument for why Rey cannot be a compassionate person to him. This is exactly what it boils down to.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:16 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig Ha,ha, exactly! Found her daddy, got a nice boyfriend that everyone approves of, so what's the drama again? We can just wrap up the second movie within first 3 minutes. Even antis wouldn't show up for that though they wrote the script.

@Macha Ren wrote:part of the reason the antis don't want Rey to be compassionate sounds a lot like the plot to Footloose

music leads to dancing leads to touching leads to feelings leads to ZOMG sex.

Seriously, that is their argument for why Rey cannot be a compassionate person to him. This is exactly what it boils down to.
@Macha Ren

Ha,ha, love your comparison! Yes, sexual aspect of Reylo is what bothers them but they don't want to admit it's there so they come up with code words such as mind rape, (sexual) abuse. Which only prove that they see sexual aspect.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:18 pm

@Macha Ren wrote:part of the reason the antis don't want Rey to be compassionate sounds a lot like the plot to Footloose

music leads to dancing leads to touching leads to feelings leads to ZOMG sex.

Seriously, that is their argument for why Rey cannot be a compassionate person to him. This is exactly what it boils down to.
@Macha Ren
My fav:

"I don't care if Kylo has to be redeemed or whatever as long as Rey has nothing to do with it. In fact, she deserves never to have to set eyes on that monster ever again."

The only reason they would want them to never see each other again is because their scenes always transpire into some form of heavy breathing and staring into each other's eyes. They are a hero and villain who have each witnessed the other's greatest fears. They know things about each other nobody else has ever known, and that's fascinating! I'm on the edge of my seat to see where the writers take that dynamic because it's unique, full of potential and very worthy of SW.

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Post by Macha Ren on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:21 pm

Right now, after winning the mind probe gymnastics, Rey is the only one that has seen his fears and insecurities laid bare. Oh yes, we'll just ignore that for the next two films so she can be the good guy that kills the bad guy.

Everything in a film occurs for a reason. It isn't conveniently forgotten to push a fannish agenda
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Post by Kessel on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:22 pm

There is so much foreshadowing showing that Rey will become a personification of the light to Kylo (along with Leia, Hans memory, etc.). It's important that Snoke wants to eradicate all compassion/sentiment from Kylo, yet Kylo still struggles with it. That struggle is there for a reason; it's part of the story. The writers didn't create that key conflict for Kylo's character to suddenly drop it in the upcoming episodes. Especially after he was weakened, not strengthened by killing one of his "pulls to the light" (Han).

And there's foreshadowing showing that Rey's perception of Kylo will undergo change/reassessment. There's a reason Kylo was presented as conflicted and his actions ambiguous toward Rey. That's not even factoring in the things we don't know about yet (and have been intentionally left mysterious) like Rey's past, Ben's fall, Snoke's influence and Luke's involvement.

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Post by Kessel on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 1:28 pm

@Macha Ren wrote:part of the reason the antis don't want Rey to be compassionate sounds a lot like the plot to Footloose

music leads to dancing leads to touching leads to feelings leads to ZOMG sex.

Seriously, that is their argument for why Rey cannot be a compassionate person to him. This is exactly what it boils down to.
@Macha Ren

You NAILED IT!

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