ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 6

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Post by BastilaBey on Sat 14 May 2016, 12:37 am

@vaderito isn't that @meadowofashes meta?
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Post by vaderito on Sat 14 May 2016, 4:48 am

@BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito isn't that @meadowofashes meta?
@BastilaBey

Definitely sounds like it! cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers
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The author of this message was banned from the forum - See the message

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Post by vaderito on Sat 14 May 2016, 10:01 am

Good job TV Tropes:

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 6 - Page 4 6uCdNTg

Corresponds with this chart of SW Fandoms:

http://notcaycepollard.tumblr.com/post/143366798111/destinationtoast-bigger-bigger
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Post by Socialnole on Sun 15 May 2016, 9:36 am

Just got banned from EDIT because I asked why they can't handle members talking about Kylo and Reys relationship. Another member pointed me here ...apparently adult conversations happen here.

Anyways, do you think Kylo has had the same force vision that Rey had with the lightsaber?
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Last edited by IoJovi on Sun 15 May 2016, 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Reference to other forums)
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Post by Xylo Ren on Sun 15 May 2016, 9:41 am

Welcome @Socialnole! Any chance the "nole" means you went to FSU? Very Happy

You have just taken a bigger step into a larger, more intellectual world. "These are your first steps".

The conversations that go on here are absolutely light years ahead of anywhere else.

And yes, many of us (including me) believe Kylo has had visions of Rey before! It would explain his strange over-reaction to "WhAT GIRL?!" where he chokes Mitaka.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 15 May 2016, 9:46 am

@Socialnole wrote:Just got banned from EDIT because I asked why they can't handle members talking about Kylo and Reys relationship. Another member pointed me here ...apparently adult conversations happen here.

Anyways, do you think Kylo has had the same force vision that Rey had with the lightsaber?
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@Socialnole
Welcome to the realm of adult conversation where you won't be stifled for attempting to theorize about the heroine and villain forging a relationship beyond visceral hatred/murder attempts for two more movies! And no worries, a lot of stuff went down there back in the day. You should edit your post and remove the name of the forum because we do our best not to call the place out by name here. Respect and all that. We can't ask for it to be mutual, but maintaining that front is better.

As for your question, I definitely think it's a possibility. He recognized the saber, Han and Luke both had a pretty emotional reaction to seeing it again and he also strangely seemed to see Rey as familiar in some regard. Pablo Hidalgo clarified that he recognized her as the "Awakening" he and Snoke felt in the Force, but all of this could have a secondary explanation for sure. If Rey received a vision about the Skywalkers and Kylo from touching the saber, I don't think it's illogical to speculate that Kylo may have experienced something similar when he was much younger.
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Post by vaderito on Sun 15 May 2016, 9:54 am

This is from Spoilers forum but could be posted here too cause it's on topic:



Unless proven otherwise, I think it's the vision thing. he had the vision of a girl, like she had a vision of him. Whether touching Anakin's saber had anything to do with his vision ("That lightsaber. It belongs to me"...yes, Maz, there's always another Skywalker...who owns/owned the saber) or not I cannot say but it seems to me vision is the reason for being startled. After all, Vision!Kylo breaks the fourth wall which could mean:

a) since his and Rey's future are shared, he "sees" her cause she will be in the future event that Force is showing to Rey

b) he sees her because a) and because he had the same visions himself

"there's been an awakening, have you felt it?" "Yes" is another possibility. he's felt the awakening how? Has he felt a person? That awakening was in a woman (Eve to his Adam)? In this case, there may not have been a vision but overall feeling that awakened person is a young woman.

@panki

Another way he could have had visions was when he visited some jedi temple with Luke when he was his student.

We know Luke and his students traveled around the galaxy and it would be similar to the way Ezra and Kanan (and later Ahsoka)had visions in Rebels....they also traveled a lot but would sometimes stop at a particular jedi temple to meditate and find answers. During this time, each of them would get individual interactive visions of their possible future which the others would not see....maybe Kylo saw a masked girl with the legacy lightsaber?




The panki's quote ties in with what we learned from Bloodline book, that Luke + students traveled.


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Post by IoJovi on Sun 15 May 2016, 10:02 am

Done. Thanks guys!
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Post by Socialnole on Sun 15 May 2016, 10:05 am

Yes I am proud Seminole here! Thanks for the welcome

@Xylo Ren wrote:Welcome @Socialnole! Any chance the "nole" means you went to FSU? Very Happy

You have just taken a bigger step into a larger, more intellectual world. "These are your first steps".

The conversations that go on here are absolutely light years ahead of anywhere else.

And yes, many of us (including me) believe Kylo has had visions of Rey before! It would explain his strange over-reaction to "WhAT GIRL?!" where he chokes Mitaka.
@Xylo Ren
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 15 May 2016, 10:08 am

@Socialnole wrote:Yes I am proud Seminole here! Thanks for the welcome

@Xylo Ren wrote:Welcome @Socialnole! Any chance the "nole" means you went to FSU? Very Happy

You have just taken a bigger step into a larger, more intellectual world. "These are your first steps".

The conversations that go on here are absolutely light years ahead of anywhere else.

And yes, many of us (including me) believe Kylo has had visions of Rey before! It would explain his strange over-reaction to "WhAT GIRL?!" where he chokes Mitaka.
@Xylo Ren
@Socialnole

Welcome! Enjoy your time here!
We share the same profile pic cheers
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Post by Xylo Ren on Sun 15 May 2016, 10:18 am

@Socialnole wrote:Yes I am proud Seminole here! Thanks for the welcome

@Xylo Ren wrote:Welcome @Socialnole! Any chance the "nole" means you went to FSU? Very Happy

You have just taken a bigger step into a larger, more intellectual world. "These are your first steps".

The conversations that go on here are absolutely light years ahead of anywhere else.

And yes, many of us (including me) believe Kylo has had visions of Rey before! It would explain his strange over-reaction to "WhAT GIRL?!" where he chokes Mitaka.
@Xylo Ren
@Socialnole

Class of '13 here! I was also a proud member of the FSU Marching Chiefs  Jumping Make sure you post on the "Introduce Yourself" Board. Glad someone referred you here. Us 'Noles belong among the elite, and that's what this forum is. Enjoy, and if you have any questions about how to navigate through the site, let me know!

F-L-O-R-I-D-A S-T-A-T-E
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Post by Guest on Sun 15 May 2016, 10:57 am

@Socialnole Welcome to the forum! I'm glad you decided to join - there's much to read and discuss. Very Happy

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 15 May 2016, 11:14 am

WhatGirl wrote:@Socialnole Welcome to the forum! I'm glad you decided to join - there's much to read and discuss. Very Happy
@WhatGirl
One of things I really enjoy about the forum we've built here is that it isn't "shippy". It probably appears to be from the outside perspective because of the title and images and whatnot, but most of us don't consider ourselves shippers. There is a judgmental light cast upon "shipping" that really has nothing to do with the franchise or the characters, but because the ST appears as though it will focus on a transformational redemption story, it's difficult to discuss the future of the narrative without delving into the potential of two unrelated characters forging a bond that will take simple redemption into compelling and unexplored territories. It's not about "romance", and that's the thing that I think most people (and indeed, most who are against the notion) simply do not understand. It's about balance, and we're all just SW fans who happen to understand storytelling and can't help but see where the writers are going with this. It was very strange to be ostracized by other fans claiming our interpretations were all "fanfiction". Since then all the interpretations they claimed were oh-so obvious have been debunked by Word of God, yet this one remains untouched. Rey Solo? Gone. Rey Skywalker? Gone. Finn/Rey romantic? Gone. Snoke/Plagieus? Gone. Jyn Skymom? Gone.


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Post by vaderito on Sun 15 May 2016, 11:20 am

Rey and Ren will be Luke's spiritual children, so those proposing Rey Skywalker will get her in a spiritual way. All lines up perfectly for that. Snoke fears "new Jedi" that will sprout from "Skywalker return". Luke is on the First Jedi Temple planet, where all began, probably when Light and Dark were in balance, before the split into Jedi and Sith. He himself may be both or Grey as some say. he'll be accompanied by a young, Light woman and a young, Dark man. Those 2 are yet to find the balance and it's beautiful that we are getting a woman and a man as opposed to Chosen One. Companionship, sharing, balance instead of One. I think that's where they are going with this.
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Post by BastilaBey on Sun 15 May 2016, 11:31 am

'Chosen one' always put too much pressure on that person, and you can see that in Kylo as the legacy child. Yes he is supposed to have perfect balance of light and dark but with conflicting lineage of Vader, Luke and Leia along with feelings of betrayal and abandonment you can see how easy it would be to manipulate one person. But with two to balance each other out and support each other, Rey and Kylo can reset the force together - and the force wants them to. LST's lines right at the beginning of TFA set the tone moving forward: "This will begin to make things right".
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Post by Guest on Sun 15 May 2016, 11:36 am

@BastilaBey wrote:'Chosen one' always put too much pressure on that person, and you can see that in Kylo as the legacy child. Yes he is supposed to have perfect balance of light and dark but with conflicting lineage of Vader, Luke and Leia along with feelings of betrayal and abandonment you can see how easy it would be to manipulate one person. But with two to balance each other out and support each other, Rey and Kylo can reset the force together - and the force wants them to. LST's lines right at the beginning of TFA set the tone moving forward: "This will begin to make things right".
@BastilaBey
Exactly! Chosen two Smile
@Socialnole Welcome, enjoy your time here! Don't be shy to post any opinion here, you'll see we are all very friendly. I'm looking forward to your posts Wink

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Post by vaderito on Sun 15 May 2016, 11:45 am

@BastilaBey wrote:'Chosen one' always put too much pressure on that person, and you can see that in Kylo as the legacy child. Yes he is supposed to have perfect balance of light and dark but with conflicting lineage of Vader, Luke and Leia along with feelings of betrayal and abandonment you can see how easy it would be to manipulate one person. But with two to balance each other out and support each other, Rey and Kylo can reset the force together - and the force wants them to. LST's lines right at the beginning of TFA set the tone moving forward: "This will begin to make things right".
@BastilaBey

My thoughts exactly. Plus, if we are right and ST is indeed moving towards balance rather than one side destroying another, Chosen One concept doesn't work. It must be 2 and it's beautiful that they are a woman and a man, spiritual children of the former Chosen One.
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Post by snufkin on Sun 15 May 2016, 12:26 pm

In regards to the Chosen Two, maybe that was the original reason Luke and Leia were twins? But she went a different route of taking up military/political leadership because that was the immediate need and ultimately that led to things getting a little crazy? Just thinking off the top of my head after reading the past page.
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Post by Socialnole on Sun 15 May 2016, 12:29 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:@Socialnole Welcome to the forum! I'm glad you decided to join - there's much to read and discuss. Very Happy
@WhatGirl
One of things I really enjoy about the forum we've built here is that it isn't "shippy". It probably appears to be from the outside perspective because of the title and images and whatnot, but most of us don't consider ourselves shippers. There is a judgmental light cast upon "shipping" that really has nothing to do with the franchise or the characters, but because the ST appears as though it will focus on a transformational redemption story, it's difficult to discuss the future of the narrative without delving into the potential of two unrelated characters forging a bond that will take simple redemption into compelling and unexplored territories. It's not about "romance", and that's the thing that I think most people (and indeed, most who are against the notion) simply do not understand. It's about balance, and we're all just SW fans who happen to understand storytelling and can't help but see where the writers are going with this. It was very strange to be ostracized by other fans claiming our interpretations were all "fanfiction". Since then all the interpretations they claimed were oh-so obvious have been debunked by Word of God, yet this one remains untouched. Rey Solo? Gone. Rey Skywalker? Gone. Finn/Rey romantic? Gone. Snoke/Plagieus? Gone. Jyn Skymom? Gone.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Exactly I'm not completely sold on the romance part yet, but there is no denying that a greater type of relationship between the two will develop. I'm more on the Claudia Grey side that I'm for a romantic relationship but Kylo has ALOT of atoning to do in the next two movies.
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Post by Armadeus on Sun 15 May 2016, 12:33 pm

@snufkin wrote:In regards to the Chosen Two, maybe that was the original reason Luke and Leia were twins? But she went a different route of taking up military/political leadership because that was the immediate need and ultimately that led to things getting a little crazy? Just thinking off the top of my head after reading the past page.
@snufkin

I think you might be on to something there...
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Post by Kessel on Sun 15 May 2016, 12:37 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:@Socialnole Welcome to the forum! I'm glad you decided to join - there's much to read and discuss. Very Happy
@WhatGirl
One of things I really enjoy about the forum we've built here is that it isn't "shippy". It probably appears to be from the outside perspective because of the title and images and whatnot, but most of us don't consider ourselves shippers. There is a judgmental light cast upon "shipping" that really has nothing to do with the franchise or the characters, but because the ST appears as though it will focus on a transformational redemption story, it's difficult to discuss the future of the narrative without delving into the potential of two unrelated characters forging a bond that will take simple redemption into compelling and unexplored territories. It's not about "romance", and that's the thing that I think most people (and indeed, most who are against the notion) simply do not understand. It's about balance, and we're all just SW fans who happen to understand storytelling and can't help but see where the writers are going with this. It was very strange to be ostracized by other fans claiming our interpretations were all "fanfiction". Since then all the interpretations they claimed were oh-so obvious have been debunked by Word of God, yet this one remains untouched. Rey Solo? Gone. Rey Skywalker? Gone. Finn/Rey romantic? Gone. Snoke/Plagieus? Gone. Jyn Skymom? Gone.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I agree, the reason I am interested in the future dynamic surrounding Rey and Kylo is because of the potential I saw in TFA. IMO, Rey and Kylo are going to be key to each other's development and their dynamic is going to be central to the main story going forward. It was obvious to me that their relationship will not be an ordinary hero-villain one, but something more complicated and special than that. The possibilities for that seem to transcend a "typical romance."

TFA was very derivative of ANH in many ways, but the Rey and Kylo dynamic was something completely new. That dynamic provides the ST an opportunity to present a new and unique story based on SW themes like, personal discovery, family, love, friendship, and redemption. That's why I was surprised and a little disappointed by the prevalence of all those "predictable" theories you mentioned. Those theories don't offer many narrative possibilities and lead to a very basic story with minimal developmental potential.

I'm very excited about the news we're hearing about Episode VII. It looks like it's going to be a very unique story. Also with Rian Johnson at the helm, I am even more excited.
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Post by vaderito on Sun 15 May 2016, 2:32 pm

@Armadeus wrote:
@snufkin wrote:In regards to the Chosen Two, maybe that was the original reason Luke and Leia were twins? But she went a different route of taking up military/political leadership because that was the immediate need and ultimately that led to things getting a little crazy? Just thinking off the top of my head after reading the past page.
@snufkin

I think you might be on to something there...
@Armadeus

It's hard to know because GL had different vision when he made ANH and than he made changes. Luke was supposed to have a twin sister who was not Leia. So we don't know if twin sister was meant to be Chosen Two or not, but once that role was given to Leia, we got Chosen One (Luke).

Now, Lucas could have been inspired by Frank Herbert's Dune, among other stuff that we know of - Kurosawa, LOTR, pulp fiction, and third book in the series, Children of Dune (1976), has boy/girl twins Leto and Ghanima. But in the end, Leto becomes the Chosen One because the series is about Chosen One or Kwisatz Haderach.

But anyway, it seems to us, and we could be wrong, that they are taking different direction, in that there are Chosen Two so to speak and they are male/female dynamics and not familial.

I agree with @Kessel89 that as derivative as TFA was, Rey and Kylo stuff was unique so continuing in the direction of balance, Two instead of One, Dark/Light co-existence, etc would be groundbreaking for the series.

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Post by snufkin on Sun 15 May 2016, 3:29 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:
@snufkin wrote:In regards to the Chosen Two, maybe that was the original reason Luke and Leia were twins? But she went a different route of taking up military/political leadership because that was the immediate need and ultimately that led to things getting a little crazy? Just thinking off the top of my head after reading the past page.
@snufkin

I think you might be on to something there...
@Armadeus

It's hard to know because GL had different vision when he made ANH and than he made changes. Luke was supposed to have a twin sister who was not Leia. So we don't know if twin sister was meant to be Chosen Two or not, but once that role was given to Leia, we got Chosen One (Luke).

Now, Lucas could have been inspired by Frank Herbert's Dune, among other stuff that we know of - Kurosawa, LOTR, pulp fiction, and third book in the series, Children of Dune (1976), has boy/girl twins Leto and Ghanima. But in the end, Leto becomes the Chosen One because the series is about Chosen One or Kwisatz Haderach.

But anyway, it seems to us, and we could be wrong, that they are taking different direction, in that there are Chosen Two so to speak and they are male/female dynamics and not familial.

I agree with @Kessel89 that as derivative as TFA was, Rey and Kylo stuff was unique so continuing in the direction of balance, Two instead of One, Dark/Light co-existence, etc would be groundbreaking for the series.

@vaderito

Definitely inspired by Dune (one of my favorites), to the point that David Lynch said it was hard to make it a movie and not look like a rip off of Star Wars. I'm just conjecturing that if they're now emphasizing that Leia was really an equal and not the lesser twin (and Hell, she's the mother of the legacy child) that it might be a detail thrown in that there was a specific reason that the two were twins. But yeah, that was never the original plan, including that Luke's twin would be another character.
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Post by SanghaRen on Sun 15 May 2016, 4:11 pm

I don't know if that was already discussed somewhere, but I just suddenly wondered how much does Rey know about Ben, Luke, Leia and all the events that led to Luke's self-exile and Ben becoming Kylo when she meets Luke. Does she know who Darth Vader is? She mentions his name when she reads Kylo's mind, but does she really know who he is? She thought Luke was a myth so we can assume that she thought Darth Vader was a myth too. Does she know Darth Vader was Luke and Leia's father and Kylo's grandfather?

Leia might have decided (once again) to not tell the whole truth and leave it up to her brother to tell it all. Although I would rather assume that Leia chose to tell it all this time. But then we don't really know if Leia knows the whole truth about the events that led to the destruction of the Jedi non-academy and Ben turning. And what would she tell about Kylo? That there's still good in him? Last time she told someone this, it did not end well  Crying or Very sad The novelization did make it sound like the 2 girls talked.

I just wonder what Rey's state of mind is when she meets Luke : she knows the whole story and is ready to take part in the greater battle or will she later on realize she just got herself in a family drama and it's too big for her. I guess I am still confused as to why she goes to Luke in the first place. To be trained? Don't know why, but it still sounds weird to me that she would want to become a Jedi.
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