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Post by BastilaBey on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 3:31 pm

@applecrumble122 I think they may have done on earlier episodes, but this one's mostly about rey. One of them was a hardcore luke and leia shipper back in the ANH era, and I think she still low-key ships it now hahaha.
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Post by vaderito on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 3:35 pm

Queen of the Knights wrote:
bela.mesecina wrote:I'm back, I missed you guys :*
Irrelevant to what you're currently talking about..but do you think we'll ever hear Kylo laugh?
@bela.mesecina

I don't know, but I want to see him smile so much. A real smile. With those gorgeous dimples. A smile of happiness after all the suffering. Embarassed H-beating
@Queen of the Knights

I also want him to tuck his hair behind his ears:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 1 - Page 39 Tumblr_o2outjWKuq1rszoo3o1_r1_250

he's too adorable when he does that.

@Darth Dingbat I'm listening LOTR soundtrack post-TFA a lot too.
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Post by Guest on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 3:38 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:@applecrumble122 I think they may have done on earlier episodes, but this one's mostly about rey. One of them was a hardcore luke and leia shipper back in the ANH era, and I think she still low-key ships it now hahaha.
@BastilaBey

Hahaha! Still, I'm glad there's people out there who are just as baffled as us at some of the reception Reylo has received, since there are plenty of hero/villain romances in the universe.

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Post by vaderito on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 3:41 pm

AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@applecrumble122 I think they may have done on earlier episodes, but this one's mostly about rey. One of them was a hardcore luke and leia shipper back in the ANH era, and I think she still low-key ships it now hahaha.
@BastilaBey

Hahaha! Still, I'm glad there's people out there who are just as baffled as us at some of the reception Reylo has received, since there are plenty of hero/villain romances in the universe.
@AppleCrumble122

Yeha, I'm surprised too because hero/villain pairings are common in EU yet quite a few EU fans seems to be hardcore antis, maybe because they want Reywalker to be Luke/Mara kid? or want Jacen/Jaina sibling rivalry?
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 3:44 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:One more thing: I think most of us agree that Kylo has been coded as mentally ill in TFA. What we differ on, I think, is what that coding actually means in terms of the story, and the extent to which "Snoke" and the darkness represent mental illness.

In large part I wouldn't mind mind control, I think, if it went hand in hand with that coding. If Kylo's darkness is less in terms of traditional sin/temptation/fall, and more in terms of a broken mind, then it would make sense to me if darkness isn't something that he actively chose for himself. If it were more traditional temptation and fall, then of course being forced by some outside influence to fall into temptation wouldn't make much sense.

I've read many posts written by people who identify with Kylo precisely because he was coded as mentally ill in some way, and redemption feels so important, and so personal, to them not only because it represents hope of recovery, but because it's important to get even symbolic reassurance that having a broken mind doesn't make you a bad person deep down. That it's not your choice to have become "bad".
@Darth Dingbat

I agree with bolded. However it is more likely that such person (mentally ill or during some unstable period in life) do commit the bad things, without being born bad so to say. I am pretty positive that Kylo is not a psycho in terms most of antis want him to be.
He does not enjoy torturing people - if anything it was obviously presented in the movie. He kills Lors out of rage, he does not seem to enjoy torturing Poe (no evil laugh or similar sort of things typical for psychos). Not to mention the  interrogation of Rey.
Han is another case - it is the most important conflict to Kylo. (a typical father -son - oedipus complex archetype). The most tragic and the most hard task for Kylo. He killed him out of desperation - given his inner struggle and pain - and then that was also very obviously presented in the movie (torn apart).
@Darth_Awakened

Oh, absolutely. But symbolically, the circumstances of his fall will make a huge difference.

Becoming dark because Snoke tempted him with power, and then his mind breaking because the darkness tears him apart;

vs.

Becoming dark because something broke his mind.

These two different versions of Kylo with different backstories would be, I think, completely different beasts (pun intended) even if they were both completely consistent with the character we saw in TFA.

(ETA: Not that these are the only possible versions; this was just an example.)
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Post by Guest on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 3:50 pm

@vaderito wrote:
AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@applecrumble122 I think they may have done on earlier episodes, but this one's mostly about rey. One of them was a hardcore luke and leia shipper back in the ANH era, and I think she still low-key ships it now hahaha.
@BastilaBey

Hahaha! Still, I'm glad there's people out there who are just as baffled as us at some of the reception Reylo has received, since there are plenty of hero/villain romances in the universe.
@AppleCrumble122

Yeha, I'm surprised too because hero/villain pairings are common in EU yet quite a few EU fans seems to be hardcore antis, maybe because they want Reywalker to be Luke/Mara kid? or want Jacen/Jaina sibling rivalry?
@vaderito

Yeah I reckon that does have something to do with it. Back before JJ let slip that Rey wasn't a Skywalker, the only way I wanted Luke to be Rey's father was if Mara was also her mother - because I loved her character so much that I was desperate for her to become canon in any way possible. I imagine it must be the same for other EU fans - they love those characters and are sad they've been pushed aside after growing up with them and being invested in over thirty years of work (so was I). That's part of the reason why some want Rey and Kylo to be cousins and have a showdown, so Jaina and Jacen can live through them so to speak.

That being said, there are quite a few EU fans who are not hardcore antis (myself and @panki included lol Wink ). I've seen some EU fans open to the idea of Reylo because of the whole hero/villain romance thing. I had a conversation with a workmate the other day who is a HUGE SW fan, and when I said I thought Reylo might happen he was unsure about it, but when I brought up the previous villan/hero romances, it suddenly clicked and he went "Ah! Of course! The whole redeemed by love and forgiveness thing! I see it now".

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Post by SanghaRen on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:00 pm

@snufkin wrote:Ha, the Bachelorette! Carrie has gone on record about how Rey is getting a Space Kiss at some point in the trilogy. Nice to see Chewie included in the picture, although we all know who his girlfriend really is.

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 1 - Page 39 EpisodeIV
@snufkin

First where does this come from? Secondly, maybe it's because I am tired but who is the pilot lady? Is that Poe with a pony tail?
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Post by BastilaBey on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:02 pm

@sangharen this podcast http://www.trashcompactorpodcast.com/2016/09/05/episode-iv/

the shipping discussion starts around 24 minutes in if you want to listen!

also the lady is jessika pava, people ship rey with her

they even talk about Ruke because rey is his type, 'petite, brunette and possibly related to him' Laughing
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Post by Guest on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:04 pm

@SanghaRen It's Jess Pava, one the pilots from Poe's squadron who helps against blowing up SKB.

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 1 - Page 39 Tumblr_inline_o0mu12A0w21ttcxch_500

The F/F pairing between her and Rey is pretty popular.


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Post by snufkin on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:19 pm

AppleCrumble122 wrote:@SanghaRen It's Jess Pava, one the pilots from Poe's squadron who helps against blowing up SKB.

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 1 - Page 39 Tumblr_inline_o0mu12A0w21ttcxch_500

The F/F pairing between her and Rey is pretty popular.

@AppleCrumble122

The actress who was originally supposed to play Rey. So uh, that would be a super awkward relationship to say the least! Although what's more weird to me is that one of the other pilots is Ben's goofy roommate from Felicity and also appeared on a super cheesy TV show here in the States claiming to have made contact with ghosts at the Winchester Mystery House . At least Rey's potential girlfriend comes across as a competent pilot, versus that guy, who tends to play characters are complete goofballs.
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Post by Guest on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:24 pm

@snufkin wrote:The actress who was originally supposed to play Rey. So uh, that would be a super awkward relationship to say the least! Although what's more weird to me is that one of the other pilots is Ben's goofy roommate from Felicity and also appeared on a super cheesy TV show here in the States claiming to have made contact with ghosts at the Winchester Mystery House . At least Rey's potential girlfriend comes across as a competent pilot, versus that guy, who tends to play characters are complete goofballs.
@snufkin

Haha what makes it better is that the actress, Jess Henwick likes it! She's tweeted fanart on her twitter account!

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Post by SanghaRen on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:30 pm

Thanks. I remember the lady now. People are really shipping left and right. This is really too flowers and bees. Why not go all the way if Rey ends up with a woman? Let's ship her with that lady who gave them up at Maz Castle - seems like her name is Bazine Netal. That would be a more interesting ship. Two opposite sides. And it started with one selling the other out...

http://www.starwars.com/databank/bazine-netal
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:37 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:Thanks. I remember the lady now. People are really shipping left and right. This is really too flowers and bees. Why not go all the way if Rey ends up with a woman? Let's ship her with that lady who gave them up at Maz Castle - seems like her name is Bazine Netal. That would be a more interesting ship. Two opposite sides. And it started with one selling the other out...

http://www.starwars.com/databank/bazine-netal
@SanghaRen

If you read fanfiction, you can meet there Bazine very often.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:41 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:Thanks. I remember the lady now. People are really shipping left and right. This is really too flowers and bees. Why not go all the way if Rey ends up with a woman? Let's ship her with that lady who gave them up at Maz Castle - seems like her name is Bazine Netal. That would be a more interesting ship. Two opposite sides. And it started with one selling the other out...

http://www.starwars.com/databank/bazine-netal
@SanghaRen

Bazine is pretty great character in the novella about her, titled "The Perfect Weapon". I recommend it - it's very entertaining for such a short story, and it's interesting to ponder whether it actually ties in to the main story because... well... I won't spoil it but it's interesting.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:42 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:Thanks. I remember the lady now. People are really shipping left and right. This is really too flowers and bees. Why not go all the way if Rey ends up with a woman? Let's ship her with that lady who gave them up at Maz Castle - seems like her name is Bazine Netal. That would be a more interesting ship. Two opposite sides. And it started with one selling the other out...

http://www.starwars.com/databank/bazine-netal
@SanghaRen

Bazine is pretty great character in the novella about her, titled "The Perfect Weapon". I recommend it - it's very entertaining for such a short story, and it's interesting to ponder whether it actually ties in to the main story because... well... I won't spoil it but it's interesting.
@Darth Dingbat

Here's the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Weapon-Star-Short-Story-ebook/dp/B016GRO8R6#nav-subnav
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Post by snufkin on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:50 pm

AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@snufkin wrote:The actress who was originally supposed to play Rey. So uh, that would be a super awkward relationship to say the least! Although what's more weird to me is that one of the other pilots is Ben's goofy roommate from Felicity and also appeared on a super cheesy TV show here in the States claiming to have made contact with ghosts at the Winchester Mystery House . At least Rey's potential girlfriend comes across as a competent pilot, versus that guy, who tends to play characters are complete goofballs.
@snufkin

Haha what makes it better is that the actress, Jess Henwick likes it! She's tweeted fanart on her twitter account!
@AppleCrumble122

That's hilarious. Glad at least people think to put Rey together with her because she seems like the most competent one out of that group.
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Post by Kessel on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:52 pm

@vaderito wrote:
AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@applecrumble122 I think they may have done on earlier episodes, but this one's mostly about rey. One of them was a hardcore luke and leia shipper back in the ANH era, and I think she still low-key ships it now hahaha.
@BastilaBey

Hahaha! Still, I'm glad there's people out there who are just as baffled as us at some of the reception Reylo has received, since there are plenty of hero/villain romances in the universe.
@AppleCrumble122

Yeha, I'm surprised too because hero/villain pairings are common in EU yet quite a few EU fans seems to be hardcore antis, maybe because they want Reywalker to be Luke/Mara kid? or want Jacen/Jaina sibling rivalry?
@vaderito
Yes, I think there are definitely some EU fans who are antis because they miss Luke and Mara Jade and desperately want Rey to be Luke's kid. Some of them were really upset when the EU was thrown out and they still see Luke as the main hero of SW, so they don't want Reylo to destroy Luke's chance to be a father in the new canon. I do wonder what many of them would think of Reylo if we knew Luke had other kids, or Kylo was his son because as you said, hero/villain romantic pairings were not uncommon in the EU (Luke and Mara were very popular).

I think the reason for the Jacen and Jaina comparisons (a storyline I thought was awful way before TFA), is that TFA was so derivative of the OT, some fans thought LF/Disney must have also borrowed from the EU with Jacen and Jaina.

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Post by SanghaRen on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:54 pm

@Darth Dingbat Is there any character that was not turned into a novel, a comic or whatever? D*** Disney. And I wanted to take a break from SW after finishing Life Debt. Well, guess not because I am intrigued by the character, but then I have a book on a more serious topic to finish too. I really need to be more disciplined with my time. I'll buy it and put it aside.

@Darth_Awakened I am not into fan fiction at all. But I am not surprised that she inspires people. She is striking.
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Post by reenydet on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 5:05 pm

I try to check this site everyday, but I apologize if I bring up something that's been previously mentioned that I missed. It's the podcasts done by Star Wars Connection.  They've had about 13 so far and I've watched them all--very well researched and thought provoking. I think my favorite has been Rey and Kylo as Adam and Eve. I can't understand how some folks who are so totally against Reylo and will not even entertain the slightest possibility of it could fail to be swayed by the points put forth by these podcasts.
The podcasts are also very entertaining and I suspect some of the members might be contributors here. Anyway, if these have already been discussed--my apologies. If not, check them out.  They're fun and make my Reylo shipper heart happy.

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Post by Kessel on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 5:06 pm

@snufkin wrote:Ha, the Bachelorette! Carrie has gone on record about how Rey is getting a Space Kiss at some point in the trilogy. Nice to see Chewie included in the picture, although we all know who his girlfriend really is.

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 1 - Page 39 EpisodeIV
@snufkin

Poe, Luke, Hux and Phasma, etc...should be included in that pic too...make it a total mess like the actual Bachelorette.

However, I think Chewy is already married (with a kid) so he should probably sit this one out.

Btw- I wonder if Maz knows Chewy is married? She should know, with her powers of insight, right? Maybe she doesn't care? Shocked
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Post by snufkin on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 6:13 pm

Kessel89 wrote:

@snufkin

Poe, Luke, Hux and Phasma, etc...should be included in that pic too...make it a total mess like the actual Bachelorette.

However, I think Chewy is already married (with a kid) so he should probably sit this one out.

Btw- I wonder if Maz knows Chewy is married? She should know, with her powers of insight, right? Maybe she doesn't care? Shocked

@Kessel89

You gotta wonder how Mrs. Chewy knows that her husband is not only getting hit on by Maz but traveling around the galaxy with a pretty young woman, but that there's a high profile public figure going around calling herself "Chewy's Girlfriend." Could spell trouble in Episode VIII!



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Post by vaderito on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 7:30 pm

@reenydet wrote:I try to check this site everyday, but I apologize if I bring up something that's been previously mentioned that I missed. It's the podcasts done by Star Wars Connection.  They've had about 13 so far and I've watched them all--very well researched and thought provoking. I think my favorite has been Rey and Kylo as Adam and Eve. I can't understand how some folks who are so totally against Reylo and will not even entertain the slightest possibility of it could fail to be swayed by the points put forth by these podcasts.
The podcasts are also very entertaining and I suspect some of the members might be contributors here. Anyway, if these have already been discussed--my apologies. If not, check them out.  They're fun and make my Reylo shipper heart happy.
@reenydet

No apology needed. We discuss many things, go back to old discussions, than discuss something new, so you can always bring up whatever you like.  Very Happy Those are our favorite podcasts too. Fro those who don't know what we are talking about:


https://www.mixcloud.com/sw_connection/

I prefer podcasts to videos because I can listen at work. Most podcasts that I follow (various MSW, SWC, awards podcasts) drop while I'm working so that's a great way to go through tedious tasks at hand.  Laughing
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Post by CienaRee on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 7:50 pm

AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@applecrumble122 I think they may have done on earlier episodes, but this one's mostly about rey. One of them was a hardcore luke and leia shipper back in the ANH era, and I think she still low-key ships it now hahaha.
@BastilaBey

Hahaha! Still, I'm glad there's people out there who are just as baffled as us at some of the reception Reylo has received, since there are plenty of hero/villain romances in the universe.
@AppleCrumble122

Yeha, I'm surprised too because hero/villain pairings are common in EU yet quite a few EU fans seems to be hardcore antis, maybe because they want Reywalker to be Luke/Mara kid? or want Jacen/Jaina sibling rivalry?
@vaderito

Yeah I reckon that does have something to do with it. Back before JJ let slip that Rey wasn't a Skywalker, the only way I wanted Luke to be Rey's father was if Mara was also her mother - because I loved her character so much that I was desperate for her to become canon in any way possible. I imagine it must be the same for other EU fans - they love those characters and are sad they've been pushed aside after growing up with them and being invested in over thirty years of work (so was I). That's part of the reason why some want Rey and Kylo to be cousins and have a showdown, so Jaina and Jacen can live through them so to speak.

That being said, there are quite a few EU fans who are not hardcore antis (myself and @panki included lol Wink ). I've seen some EU fans open to the idea of Reylo because of the whole hero/villain romance thing. I had a conversation with a workmate the other day who is a HUGE SW fan, and when I said I thought Reylo might happen he was unsure about it, but when I brought up the previous villan/hero romances, it suddenly clicked and he went "Ah! Of course! The whole redeemed by love and forgiveness thing! I see it now".
@AppleCrumble122

You know what's confusing to me is that from the responces I read online many people hated Jacon turning to the DS and getting killed of by his own twin while his family turned on him without even trying reach out to him so why they want that same storyline they hated so much happen in the new canon is beyond me.

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Post by Guest on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 7:55 pm

@CienaRee wrote:
@AppleCrumble122

You know what's confusing to me is that from the responces I read online many people hated Jacon turning to the DS and getting killed of by his own twin while his family turned on him without even trying reach out to him so why they want that same storyline they hated so much happen in the new canon is beyond me.

@CienaRee Yes that storyline was terrible and many fans hated it including myself. But as I said, many people were attached to these characters and loved them, so in many ways, maybe Cousin vs cousin with Rey and Kylo would've been Jaina vs Jacen done right. There's also the fact that Luke was happily married with a kid in the EU, whereas in the ST, he has nothing... Sad


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Post by vaderito on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 8:08 pm

@Applecrumble122 "He has nothing" say fans who want Rey to be a Reywalker and unattached loner Jedi Goddess. Double standard if there was ever one. Luke's life isn't satisfying as a Jedi God without wife and little daughter Rey but Rey's life as just a Jedi Goddess w/o romance and family is totally awesome, progressive and perfect for a character who was dumped as a child and dreamed of having a family all her life.  Rolling Eyes

I just want to refer to Heroine Journey podcast from the link I provided in previous post. Monomyth for heroes and heroines has some significant differences. One of them is Wedding the Animus phase that doesn't exist in Hero Monomyth. @reenydet mentioned Adam&Eve podcast also from the same link where it's explained that TFA showed this phase as metaphysical marriage and consummation of the marriage. So Jedi Goddess who doesn't need love is not gonna happen.
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