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Post by Irina de France on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:28 pm

@Armadeus wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

Agreed, Wuthering Heights is certainly not my idea of canon Reylo, as much as I love the story. But I think they can allude to the imagery, just as they did with the monster bridal carry, a nod to different genres as they subvert the tropes. We know Kylo isn't really a 'creature in a mask', just as Rey does now so the horror comparison is more of a visual play.
@BastilaBey

I suppose one thing they could pull from WH is the concept of a 'connection' between two people that transcends most other types of connection.
@Armadeus

Agreed with the above. Honestly, if I had to compare a gothic novel to Reylo, it'd be Jane Eyre.
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Post by Armadeus on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:29 pm

@Irina de France wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

Agreed, Wuthering Heights is certainly not my idea of canon Reylo, as much as I love the story. But I think they can allude to the imagery, just as they did with the monster bridal carry, a nod to different genres as they subvert the tropes. We know Kylo isn't really a 'creature in a mask', just as Rey does now so the horror comparison is more of a visual play.
@BastilaBey

I suppose one thing they could pull from WH is the concept of a 'connection' between two people that transcends most other types of connection.
@Armadeus

Agreed with the above. Honestly, if I had to compare a gothic novel to Reylo, it'd be Jane Eyre.
@Irina de France

I hear that. Except there's no mysterious, deranged wife in Kylo's attic... I hope.
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Post by ZenBrainJam on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:31 pm

@Armadeus wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

Agreed, Wuthering Heights is certainly not my idea of canon Reylo, as much as I love the story. But I think they can allude to the imagery, just as they did with the monster bridal carry, a nod to different genres as they subvert the tropes. We know Kylo isn't really a 'creature in a mask', just as Rey does now so the horror comparison is more of a visual play.
@BastilaBey

I suppose one thing they could pull from WH is the concept of a 'connection' between two people that transcends most other types of connection.
@Armadeus

Agreed with the above. Honestly, if I had to compare a gothic novel to Reylo, it'd be Jane Eyre.
@Irina de France

I hear that. Except there's no mysterious, deranged wife in Kylo's attic... I hope.
@Armadeus

Maybe there is one and it's called the "jedi not-academy incident", I think...
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Post by Irina de France on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:34 pm

@Armadeus wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

Agreed, Wuthering Heights is certainly not my idea of canon Reylo, as much as I love the story. But I think they can allude to the imagery, just as they did with the monster bridal carry, a nod to different genres as they subvert the tropes. We know Kylo isn't really a 'creature in a mask', just as Rey does now so the horror comparison is more of a visual play.
@BastilaBey

I suppose one thing they could pull from WH is the concept of a 'connection' between two people that transcends most other types of connection.
@Armadeus

Agreed with the above. Honestly, if I had to compare a gothic novel to Reylo, it'd be Jane Eyre.
@Irina de France

I hear that. Except there's no mysterious, deranged wife in Kylo's attic... I hope.
@Armadeus

LOL! Of course there isn't, haha. But I always have that scene where Jane hears Rochester call her in despair (after getting disfigured in a fire and losing everything *wink wink*) even though they're miles away (Force Bond!), and she starts running in the moors while yelling she's going to come back to him... and eventually, she did.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:34 pm

Guys I'm joking with the WH comparison, although 'He's more myself than I am. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same.' seems to work a little with Yin and Yang. Otherwise I tend to agree with Kate Beaton's take on the Bronte heroes, ok only you're into alcholic d***bags

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Post by Birdwoman on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:35 pm

I admit, I read Fifty Shades of Grey after reading all these essays about how abusive the relationship was between Christian and Ana.  I won't digress in my opinion on that....
Rey and Kylo's relationship is nothing like the relationship in Fifty Shades.  It is not.  First of all they are not in a romantic relationship, nor does Kylo like S&M as far as I know.... Smile
The only thing that might closely resemble fifty shades is the interrogation chair.  But it wasn't like she was naked and he was slapping her with a whip.

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Post by Guest on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:38 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

Agreed, Wuthering Heights is certainly not my idea of canon Reylo, as much as I love the story. But I think they can allude to the imagery, just as they did with the monster bridal carry, a nod to different genres as they subvert the tropes. We know Kylo isn't really a 'creature in a mask', just as Rey does now so the horror comparison is more of a visual play.
@BastilaBey

If any Star Wars romance has slight shades of Wuthering Heights it's Padme and Anakin. I think Reylo, if it does become canon, will be more hopeful with Rey embodying Kylo's pull to the light. That's what I'm hoping for, anyway. Anakin and Padme were always destined to be tragic because his fall to the Dark Side was already written. Kylo started out in a bad place but he doesn't have to stay there or get worse.

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Post by Armadeus on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:40 pm

@snufkin

Hey, Hark a Vagrant is still going? Been a while since I checked up on it. Thanks for the reminder.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:44 pm

@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

Hey, Hark a Vagrant is still going? Been a while since I checked up on it. Thanks for the reminder.
@Armadeus

She posted awhile back that she's got so many different irons in the fire, like writing two books and a potential TV pitch, that it'll be awhile before she has the free time to do something HaV.  I kind of hope the TV thing has to do with Guillermo del Toro being a fan/supporter and having her come as his guest to one of the screenings of Crimson Peak. Just imagining the two of them teaming up together on something would be pretty amazing.

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Post by EchoBase on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:28 pm

Soooooo, concerning the recent "leak" (you know, the one about the reincarnation relatives), Pablo tweeted this (someone's asked him about KY10REY):

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Post by Guest on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:32 pm

KY10REY has made his Twitter account private (don't know about Facebook). I hope he's not been getting hate. Calling people out for pretending to be something they're not is one thing, but I don't support online (or any other kind) of abuse.

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Post by EchoBase on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:46 pm

FB is not private so far.

Maybe it's because of this: https://twitter.com/starwarsnewsnet/status/743541754884853762

There seems to be a private war between SWNN and him.

This is the link to the metro article which is mentioned in the tweets: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/16/star-wars-episode-8-leak-reveals-reys-origins-and-connection-to-the-jedi-5947639/?ito=twitter

Interesting, they reached out for Disney for comments.

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Post by AnneNeville on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 8:49 pm

@Irina de France wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

Agreed, Wuthering Heights is certainly not my idea of canon Reylo, as much as I love the story. But I think they can allude to the imagery, just as they did with the monster bridal carry, a nod to different genres as they subvert the tropes. We know Kylo isn't really a 'creature in a mask', just as Rey does now so the horror comparison is more of a visual play.
@BastilaBey

I suppose one thing they could pull from WH is the concept of a 'connection' between two people that transcends most other types of connection.
@Armadeus

Agreed with the above. Honestly, if I had to compare a gothic novel to Reylo, it'd be Jane Eyre.
@Irina de France

Anne Bronte was the most realistic one. Read Tenant of Wildfell Hall for a true exploration of what marrying a dark dangerous man would be like. It's a groundbreaking book. I think even revolutionary.

Reylo will not be that way.... (dark/abusive).
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Post by Armadeus on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 9:14 pm

@AnneNeville wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

Agreed, Wuthering Heights is certainly not my idea of canon Reylo, as much as I love the story. But I think they can allude to the imagery, just as they did with the monster bridal carry, a nod to different genres as they subvert the tropes. We know Kylo isn't really a 'creature in a mask', just as Rey does now so the horror comparison is more of a visual play.
@BastilaBey

I suppose one thing they could pull from WH is the concept of a 'connection' between two people that transcends most other types of connection.
@Armadeus

Agreed with the above. Honestly, if I had to compare a gothic novel to Reylo, it'd be Jane Eyre.
@Irina de France

Anne Bronte was the most realistic one. Read Tenant of Wildfell Hall for a true exploration of what marrying a dark dangerous man would be like. It's a groundbreaking book. I think even revolutionary.

Reylo will not be that way.... (dark/abusive).
@AnneNeville

Tenant is one of those books that stays with you for days... weeks... Heck, it's years later and I still haven't quite gotten over it. I was more prepared for it than I was for WH, though. I went into WH thinking it was going to be like Jane Eyre... Boy, was I wrong.
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Post by BenRey on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 9:21 pm

Now I'm going to have to read Tenant of Wildfell Hall. These comments have piqued my interest.
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Post by Armadeus on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 9:33 pm

@BenRey wrote:Now I'm going to have to read Tenant of Wildfell Hall. These comments have piqued my interest.
@BenRey

It's a fantastic book. Dark AF. As far a cry from the comparative cuteness of Dickens as it is humanly possible to achieve. It's almost modern in its treatment of the Gothic.
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Post by AnneNeville on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 10:14 pm

@BenRey wrote:Now I'm going to have to read Tenant of Wildfell Hall. These comments have piqued my interest.
@BenRey

Be prepared for Anne to take her sisters down by exposing the dark side of relationships and
Spoiler:
addiction
.
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Post by Saracene on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:25 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I really hate generalizing, but I get the feeling a lot of the hardcore antis aren't very well read. They claim not to want "that kind of story", but the only comparisons they can ever come up with are Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey. Meanwhile "transformational" dynamics have been at the forefront of fiction, mythology and philosophy for literally thousands of years. I've never even seen a Romeo & Juliet comparison from an anti, nor Pride and Prejudice, despite both being extremely famous love stories between rivals or rival families! At least say you don't want "Romeo & Juliet" in space. I'll accept that! It's downright embarrassing to only be able to connect such an ancient narrative trope to a cheesy YA series and creepy published fanfiction.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I actually don't think it's the lack of reading, I think it's more about trying to make your argument valid by drawing comparisons between Reylo and a much-despised book/film. It's like, if you said, I don't want Beauty and the Beast or Romeo & Juliet it's like saying, I don't want Star Wars to have a story like those other great, universally loved stories. If you want to make Reylo sound like a bad idea, you instead compare it to something like Twilight.
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Post by Slade on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:32 am

@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

I must know: why did Wuthering Heights frighten you? And how creepy IS Haunting/Hill House?! Best opening paragraph I think I have ever read.
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Post by Slade on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:42 am

@Armadeus wrote:
@BenRey wrote:Now I'm going to have to read Tenant of Wildfell Hall. These comments have piqued my interest.
@BenRey

It's a fantastic book. Dark AF. As far a cry from the comparative cuteness of Dickens as it is humanly possible to achieve. It's almost modern in its treatment of the Gothic.
@Armadeus

Tenant /wildfell hall is not read in America as much as JE and WH. I wonder why?
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Post by Armadeus on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 4:01 am

@Slade wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

I don't want to tread on any toes, but I really hope it doesn't turn out like Wuthering Heights. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the greatest books ever written, but that book frightens me to my very core. Makes The Haunting of Hill House read like Enid Blyton.
@Armadeus

I must know: why did Wuthering Heights frighten you? And how creepy IS Haunting/Hill House?! Best opening paragraph I think I have ever read.
@Slade

What I personally found spooky about Haunting of Hill House was the notion that the reader is never quite sure how much of the the terror is real and how much of it exists solely in the mind of Eleanor Vance, whose state of mind (never healthy to begin with) is deteriorating over the course of the novel. Although Shirley Jackson has gone on record saying the house really is haunted, the way she wrote it leaves a LOT open to interpretation.

She also did this brilliant thing where she turns the house itself into a character. It's described as 'holding darkness' inside itself (a line Stephen King appropriated word for word when he wrote The Shining).

As to WH, I can't quite put it into words. I suppose because, like Haunting, there's this uncertainty as to the state of mind of the characters, particularly Cathy and most especially Heathcliff (who I do believe to be deranged, at least by the later stages of tale being told to Lockwood - think of the lengths he goes to to destroy the people he feels wronged him). Then there are scenes like the one where Cathy's ghost (her hand, at least) smashes the window and clutches at Lockwood; again it has that uncertainty: is there really a ghost? For me, that scene loomed like a spectre over the rest of the book. Again, uncertainy; which is more terrifying than certainty: is there a ghost? How sane are the characters? How reliable are all these narrators? Whatever the answer, there's an element running through WH that something is not quite right ('something is rotten in the state of Denmark', if you will); something that defies explanation. I think that's what I find terrifying, personally. YMMV.

Another scene that stunned me (again I can't articulate why I had this reaction) is the scene wherein Heathcliff tries desperately to claw the lid off Cathy's coffin. I mean... that's... that's quite something.

By that point (and after experiencing all the other dark, depressing stuff that has happened over the course of this story), I was willing to pull a Lockwood and:

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I don't know if I've made myself clear. Hope I did Razz Again, I think WH is one of the greatest novels ever written. The atmosphere is unparalleled and the characters feel real.


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Post by Slade on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 4:13 am

Lockwood is interesting in how he nonchalantly describes pulling the child/ghost Cathy's wrist across that broken glass pane.

Hill House--it is also creepy how Eleanor will see a thing (a cup of stars, oleander) and immediately incorporate it into her fantasy life. Yes, I wish the Marsden house had figured more prominently in Salem's Lot; the notion of the Bad Place is chilling and fascinating.
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Post by Reynak on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 8:24 am

@Saracene wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I really hate generalizing, but I get the feeling a lot of the hardcore antis aren't very well read. They claim not to want "that kind of story", but the only comparisons they can ever come up with are Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey. Meanwhile "transformational" dynamics have been at the forefront of fiction, mythology and philosophy for literally thousands of years. I've never even seen a Romeo & Juliet comparison from an anti, nor Pride and Prejudice, despite both being extremely famous love stories between rivals or rival families! At least say you don't want "Romeo & Juliet" in space. I'll accept that! It's downright embarrassing to only be able to connect such an ancient narrative trope to a cheesy YA series and creepy published fanfiction.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I actually don't think it's the lack of reading, I think it's more about trying to make your argument valid by drawing comparisons between Reylo and a much-despised book/film. It's like, if you said, I don't want Beauty and the Beast or Romeo & Juliet it's like saying, I don't want Star Wars to have a story like those other great, universally loved stories. If you want to make Reylo sound like a bad idea, you instead compare it to something like Twilight.
@Saracene

I think both of you are right to some extent. Those guys always bring up those trashy books because their intention is to be insulting, but if they were well-read their arguments wouldn't be so poor, the way they defend them so shallow, and what's more, they'd know by now what kind of story they were being told at the cinema when they saw TFA. No one who is use to reading something other than trashy best sellers would have understood TFA while they didn't.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:11 am

@AnneNeville wrote:
@BenRey wrote:Now I'm going to have to read Tenant of Wildfell Hall. These comments have piqued my interest.
@BenRey

Be prepared for Anne to take her sisters down by exposing the dark side of relationships and
Spoiler:
addiction
.
@AnneNeville

The Kate Beaton cartoon is funny in part b/c a lot of people have said that the heroes in their novels, good Byronic or straight up toxic male, was inspired by their brother, who was an alcoholic. And that Anne's is the most clear headed when it comes to that type of male because she spent the most direct time with him as his caregiver.

@slade - the Haunting of Hill House (along with El Orfanato/The Orphanage) is one of those movies where I genuinely shrieked because it's so goddamn suspenseful and creepy. Both seem pretty rooted in real life issues enough to be plausible. Kind of like how Les Revenants/the Returned reminded me of every nightmare I've had after somebody I was close with died where they've come back but don't know that they're dead. Or Jackson's We Have Always Lived in the Castle, because that's like an extreme Hoarders type situation.

Oh and as for Wuthering Heights, the 1992 version with Ralph Fiennes is crap, but if you can get ahold of Ruichi Sakamoto's soundtrack, it's pretty amazing. Like you'd think it was written for a David Lean movie.
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ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 6 - Page 37 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 6

Post by Irina de France on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 11:32 am

@snufkin wrote:
@AnneNeville wrote:
@BenRey wrote:Now I'm going to have to read Tenant of Wildfell Hall. These comments have piqued my interest.
@BenRey

Be prepared for Anne to take her sisters down by exposing the dark side of relationships and
Spoiler:
addiction
.
@AnneNeville

The Kate Beaton cartoon is funny in part b/c a lot of people have said that the heroes in their novels, good Byronic or straight up toxic male, was inspired by their brother, who was an alcoholic. And that Anne's is the most clear headed when it comes to that type of male because she spent the most direct time with him as his caregiver.

@slade - the Haunting of Hill House (along with El Orfanato/The Orphanage) is one of those movies where I genuinely shrieked because it's so goddamn suspenseful and creepy. Both seem pretty rooted in real life issues enough to be plausible. Kind of like how Les Revenants/the Returned reminded me of every nightmare I've had after somebody I was close with died where they've come back but don't know that they're dead. Or Jackson's We Have Always Lived in the Castle, because that's like an extreme Hoarders type situation.

Oh and as for Wuthering Heights, the 1992 version with Ralph Fiennes is crap, but if you can get ahold of Ruichi Sakamoto's soundtrack, it's pretty amazing. Like you'd think it was written for a David Lean movie.
@snufkin

If you want a good WH movie, watch the TV movie with Tom Hardy and Charlotte Riley. I highly recommend it and it's pretty good overall with the creepy tone of the novel.
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