ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7

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Post by Irina de France on Mon 30 May 2016, 11:47 am

@Force22

Again, they made Rey a "safe" character overall in order for her to be a safe bet for the audience to root for her. They have to be very careful here: they don't want to have the actors for the ST dealing with the same situation as the PT actors had to (except Ewan McGregor). Of course, there's the Mary-Sue criticism, but if the Force Bond theory happens to be true, that criticism will become obsolete. Same goes for Finn. Seriously, you could take those two and put them in any generic adventure family movie and it will still work.

With Kylo, however, since he's a villain and (sadly enough) a male character, they can allow themselves to take more risks. I also think it's very unfortunate that TFA is not an ANH rehash only when Rey interacts with Kylo and you get to look deeper into her. But it does bring forward the fact that SW is very much a coming-of-age story: the PT was all about Anakin being pretty much a revolted teenager, who went into adulthood by embracing the Dark Side and thinking he'd become free but eventually ended up in another prison, and that until the very end of ROTJ; the OT was all about a modest farmboy called Luke who became the last Jedi and eventually came to play a part in the fall of the Empire by forgiving his father and therefore driving him to redeem himself.

It's still too early to tell for the ST, but we already got hints of it in TFA: in a symbolic way, Rey does find the love of a father (Han), a mother (Leia) and a brother (Finn). However, even if she does to an extent find a belonging thanks to them, she still hasn't truly evolved. When she meets Kylo, however, it is very different because her "Force awakening" is essentially a metaphor for her sexual awakening as well.

I have to disagree respectfully to say Rey isn't interesting. What makes her interesting is that she's set to become a Jedi, but she's definitely NOT good Jedi material. Her qualities and flaws might seem ordinary, but when they'll clash with Luke's and eventually Kylo's, sparks will fly. And in the end, she'll make her own decisions and find her own goal.
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Post by Darth Rowan on Mon 30 May 2016, 12:44 pm

@Reynak wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Saracene wrote:The big difference is that Rey has no equivalent of Luke's "I want to be a Jedi like my father" - a clear goal and ambition. What she wants to do for most of the movie is go back to Jakku and wait for her family until the cows come home. She basically wants to stay passive, whereas Luke wants to get out there and do things.
@Saracene
On the other hand, the girl who has stubbornly waited for her family for years upon years is a great starting point for a unique journey of her own. I hope they go somewhere with it.
@Darth Dingbat
It's just a weird motivation for your protagonist, I think. Usually, characters who start out in miserable circumstances dream of getting out of them, so then it's like a springboard for their later adventures. But Rey's motivation is a dead end, and once she gives it up it's not clear at all what her motivation is now (which is why people struggle to think of where her storyline will go).
Also, for a supposed protagonist she just doesn't seem to have much influence on the big picture. Like, blowing up the Death Star in ANH was the only one amazing thing Luke did, but it was the one that saved the good guys. Rey defeats the main bad guy in TFA, but that has no impact on the larger outcome - it's Poe and the other pilots who blow up the Starkiller. She does get BB-8 to the Resistance, but then that achievement gets kinda muted because things don't budge until R2-D2 comes back (for some reason). It's never properly explained why exactly she's the one going to meet Luke, so the whole of Resistance cheering her on her way is kinda unearned. And another thing is, a protagonist is usually at the centre of the film's peak emotional scenes. Whereas Rey is just an onlooker in what many people would probably consider the big emotional moment of TFA, i.e. Han's death.
Interesting thing is, I actually haven't seen many complaints about the Rey narrative issues we discuss here. Many people just seem to be happy that Star Wars now has this kick-a** female hero who has all those mad skills and won't let anybody hold her hand.
@Saracene
I agree with everything,especially the bolded parts, but I have heard people, especially guys who are supposed to like cinema and could be somewhat above average viewers as regards getting what's going on on screen, and they complain that she is a Mary Sue. There's something missing with her characterization and her importance in the plot, as you've said in your post. Perhaps there's too much mystery, predictability is bad but too many questions without an answer create confusion and that is frustrating.
@Reynak

I think that there is a great discussion going on in this thread, it's been awesome to read all the sharp insight and interesting counterpoints. And kudos to those who have been presenting opposing views; I always enjoy a good debate, and it's nice to see that it can be done here in a civil way.

As for the matter of Rey's characterization, I also tend to agree with @Saracene's view on this matter. For me a core problem with Rey is that she is set up to be a hero, but she doesn't have an overtly stated hero's quest.

Rey has essentially been dragged into the proceedings, not an unusual way for a quest to start, especially per the model where the hero is required to initially refuse the quest. But the problem is that throughout TFA she is just tagging along with the good guys. Her goals change throughout the course of the film, but they never become the larger than life goals that a hero in epic film must have.

Here's my understanding of what her main goals are in VII. The more immediate goals are first.

First part of TFA:
"I need to scavenge so I can eat so I can live."
"I'm waiting for my family."

After meeting Finn and up until Maz's Castle:
"I need to get back to Jakku because I'm waiting for my family."

At Maz's Castle:
"I have assumed responsibility for BB-8, so I need to get him to the Resistance safely."
"I have to get back to Jakku because I'm waiting for my family."

Enter Kylo Ren:
"I need to escape SK Base."

End of TFA:
"I need to deliver this lightsaber to Luke and..."

And what? Train with Luke? Bring Luke back to Leia? Defeat Snoke and the First Order? "Deal" with Kylo Ren?

We're guessing that it's all of the above, but the movie makes no mention, Rey herself certainly doesn't. We're assuming that Rey got filled in on who Snoke is and the particulars of "the only fight that matters" i.e., good vs evil, Resistance vs First Order. I mean, I guess that happened, right? We're filling in blanks here, and that stuff should not be left up to interpretation in an epic story.
She's the hero, but does she have a larger goal?

Rey is still on errands for people, that's my problem with her here. I don't know what she wants for herself other than being found by her family. Because of Kylo Ren's intrusion into her deepest thoughts, I also suspect that Rey doesn't want to be "so lonely, at night, desperate to sleep." But she doesn't tell me that. She doesn't tell me anything, other than "I'm waiting for my family". Other than key moments where we get a small glimpse into what's in there, I don't know the real Rey. That's a problem.

I like Rey, but in terms of characterization there is a lot left to be desired. We need more infrastructure and some kind of statement of purpose from her. We need growth, and flaws and we need for her to be thwarted in some way, which other than getting stiffed on her portions remunerations by Unkar Plutt, we just didn't see in episode VII. I don't want to be certain that she's going to overcome every obstacle with ease.

That said, there are still 2 episodes left. I have faith in these writers and in Daisy Ridley's portrayal now that she has more experience, and I think that with more development she can come into her own. As for what I would like to see, aside from her being kickass (which duh) I want for my heart to contract with compassion for her like with Luke in ESB, when he was hanging upside down calling to Leia "Hear me" or when he was getting fried by the Emperor's Force Lightning in RotJ. I want to be awed by her heroic demeanor, her power and quiet dignity, like when Luke announces "I am a Jedi, like my father before me." And yeah, she doesn't have to be Luke 2.0. She can and should be her own person. More than anything I want to root for Rey because of who she is, not just because Kylo likes her, or because we're both girls.


Last edited by Darth Rowan on Mon 30 May 2016, 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed typo)

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Post by Sylvia Snow on Mon 30 May 2016, 6:11 pm

A brilliant combination between the movie and the audio book by gwendy85, for some reason it didn't feels like an interrogation but a good romance novel  ROFL  Pop corn

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Post by BastilaBey on Mon 30 May 2016, 10:33 pm

Has anyone ever seen the movie Equilibrium? I haven't, so am wondering how legit this comparison between Kylo and John Preston is.

http://walkbythesea.tumblr.com/post/145044320595/kylo-ren-and-some-thoughts-on-rumored-spoilers-and

Apparently it's a dystopian sci-fi movie so there are some obvious genre differences. I seem to remember someone using John Preston as an example on the old thread about that 'look' guys sometimes get in movies where they realize this is the girl they've been waiting for. Would love to hear any opinions on this.

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_inline_o7vndrmsAD1srn6qz_500

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Post by snufkin on Mon 30 May 2016, 10:39 pm

@BastilaBey - tried watching it via Netflix years ago b/c it sounded vaguely Vonnegut-esque (Welcome to the Monkey House is one of my favorite books by him) and it's pretty awful. Like I don't think you could be stoned enough to enjoy it. And it's dystopia, so slightly different tone and subgenre for science fiction/fantasy.



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Post by BastilaBey on Mon 30 May 2016, 10:41 pm

@snufkin wrote:@BastilaBey - tried watching it via Netflix years ago b/c it sounded vaguely Vonnegut-esque (Welcome to the Monkey House is one of my favorite books by him) and it's pretty awful. Like I don't think you could be stoned enough to enjoy it. And it's dystopia, so slightly different tone and subgenre for science fiction/fantasy.
@snufkin

I was hoping you'd respond, you know your movies! Thanks, perhaps I'll give it a miss then. The post is funny with all the side by side comparisons of these characters, what is it with intense anti-villains and their black leather gloves?
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Post by snufkin on Mon 30 May 2016, 10:46 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@BastilaBey - tried watching it via Netflix years ago b/c it sounded vaguely Vonnegut-esque (Welcome to the Monkey House is one of my favorite books by him) and it's pretty awful. Like I don't think you could be stoned enough to enjoy it. And it's dystopia, so slightly different tone and subgenre for science fiction/fantasy.
@snufkin

I was hoping you'd respond, you know your movies! Thanks, perhaps I'll give it a miss then. The post is funny with all the side by side comparisons of these characters, what is it with intense anti-villains and their black leather gloves?
@BastilaBey

Like I said, I thought it would be like something Kurt Vonnegut wrote (or Ray Bradbury's Farenheight 451), but it's just completely grim with none of his humor or humanity. You'd actually be better off reading Vonnegut or Bradbury's books instead than sitting through that movie. Dunno what the gloves signify in general, maybe keeping the blood of ones dirty deeds off ones hands (or shielding humanity)?

Oh RE: Rey, it's a lose-lose proposition in a lot of ways with making a woman the lead. Just look at the nasty behavior around the new Ghostbusters. But as I've said before, having seen Looper and Brothers Bloom, I feel pretty secure with what Rian Johnson will be doing with her character arc/development beyond realizing that she's been tasked with basically keeping KR (self destructive moron) alive despite his best efforts.
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Post by Slade on Tue 31 May 2016, 12:33 am

Well, that was interesting! According to that, Rey was crying from the strain/pain of the mind probe. I had wondered if it was that, fear, embarrassment, or a combination. And yes, I'm childish enough that some of the word choices made me giggle.
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Post by Darth Dementor on Tue 31 May 2016, 9:52 am

@BastilaBey wrote:Has anyone ever seen the movie Equilibrium? I haven't, so am wondering how legit this comparison between Kylo and John Preston is.

http://walkbythesea.tumblr.com/post/145044320595/kylo-ren-and-some-thoughts-on-rumored-spoilers-and

Apparently it's a dystopian sci-fi movie so there are some obvious genre differences. I seem to remember someone using John Preston as an example on the old thread about that 'look' guys sometimes get in movies where they realize this is the girl they've been waiting for. Would love to hear any opinions on this.

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_inline_o7vndrmsAD1srn6qz_500

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@BastilaBey

I saw Equilibrium, its nothing to scream about. I can see why the comparison was made; both characters are emotionally repressed, trying their best to keep them under wraps and failing miserably. A girl is the final spark to make them let go and finally feel something in their soul. That's the basic gist.

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Post by vaderito on Tue 31 May 2016, 1:02 pm

I'm listening to Abduction and that Romeo and Juliet bit bit that plays over bridal carry is ridiculous. JW can say whatever he wants about his headcanon but inserting R+J goes against it.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 31 May 2016, 1:20 pm

Well after cousingate at MSW it reminded me of a cousin couple (half first cousins) on the American soap Guiding light, that was everything, included in the title of this thread. Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger/Poor little girl  and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings One of my fave actors  Tom Pelphrey ( who has just joined Marvel, as Ward Meechum in the Iron Fist)   second only to AD my eyes, played this character right out of college, and won two Daytime Emmy Awards.. Yes people in America shipped cousins.
"Jammy" Jonathan & Tammy  There so many similarities that it is very interesting. And of course Tammy being sweet and goody two shoes so many people complained that they never took the time with her characterization, and beyond her "confused" feelings no one knew what she was about or what she wanted, and she was never a realized character.

Jonathan Randall

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tompelphrey23
Lost Prince
For his own protection he was hidden from his evil Uncle, but his adoptive step father was physically and mentally abusive

Comes to town for revenge on his bio mother, while confronting her tries to choke her

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_o81zmx6Tsz1v3o2r3o1_540

Seduces his virginal half cousin - forcing a bond that creates confused feelings

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_o81zvyA2vb1v3o2r3o1_540

He has a ying yang tatoo and frequently wears a ying yang t shirt, that is never properly explained

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Hades & Persephone motifs, In the beginning He even appears with a snake around his neck frequently

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Angel & The devil Interogates her about her feelings and the lighting is really similar to Reylo's lighting in TFA


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Beauty & the Beast - Tammy actually tells him the story



Bridal Carry - he steals Tammy away from her wedding her dull boyfriend/fiance sandy whom

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Hqdefault

He throws frequent trantrums, destroys rooms and burns things down.

His whole arc was about Redemption through acceptance and love.

The similarities are so deep with both the actors themselves AD & Tommy Pelphrey and in the story, even though I know that Reylo are NOT cousins. It makes me wonder if who watches daytime soaps?
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Post by IoJovi on Tue 31 May 2016, 1:44 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:Well after cousingate at MSW it reminded me of a cousin couple (half first cousins) on the American soap Guiding light, that was everything, included in the title of this thread. Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger/Poor little girl  and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings One of my fave actors  Tom Pelphrey ( who has just joined Marvel, as Ward Meechum in the Iron Fist)   second only to AD my eyes, played this character right out of college, and won two Daytime Emmy Awards.. Yes people in America shipped cousins.
"Jammy" Jonathan & Tammy  There so many similarities that it is very interesting. And of course Tammy being sweet and goody two shoes so many people complained that they never took the time with her characterization, and beyond her "confused" feelings no one knew what she was about or what she wanted, and she was never a realized character.

Jonathan Randall

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tompelphrey23
Lost Prince
For his own protection he was hidden from his evil Uncle, but his adoptive step father was physically and mentally abusive

Comes to town for revenge on his bio mother, while confronting her tries to choke her

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_o81zmx6Tsz1v3o2r3o1_540

Seduces his virginal half cousin - forcing a bond that creates confused feelings

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_o81zvyA2vb1v3o2r3o1_540

He has a ying yang tatoo and frequently wears a ying yang t shirt, that is never properly explained

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_o81zgvSjJ51v3o2r3o3_540

Hades & Persephone motifs, In the beginning He even appears with a snake around his neck frequently

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_o81zgvSjJ51v3o2r3o2_540

Angel & The devil Interogates her about her feelings and the lighting is really similar to Reylo's lighting in TFA


ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Tumblr_o81zgvSjJ51v3o2r3o1_540


Beauty & the Beast - Tammy actually tells him the story



Bridal Carry - he steals Tammy away from her wedding her dull boyfriend/fiance sandy whom

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7 - Page 5 Hqdefault

He throws frequent trantrums, destroys rooms and burns things down.

His whole arc was about Redemption through acceptance and love.

The similarities are so deep with both the actors themselves AD & Tommy Pelphrey and in the story, even though I know that Reylo are NOT cousins. It makes me wonder if who watches daytime soaps?
@spacebaby45678

That is fascinating! As a long time soap lover (I watched AMC religiously from around when I was old enough - 1986 through its ending in 2011), I love that this kind of tropes were included in a daytime story.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 31 May 2016, 2:12 pm

@IoJovi

I was always a Guiding Light & General Hospital kind of girl, but honestly Tom was one of the best actors to ever grace Daytime, and the arc that took about 6 months where his character pursued her until she admitted her feelings was truly great (stage quality acting) and the year he received his second Daytime Emmy.

I know that TFA does not have 6 months to tell that story but I would love if it fell along similar veins.
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Post by Reynak on Tue 31 May 2016, 3:10 pm

I saw a post on tumblr saying that when you type "reylo r", "romance" already appears before "related". I am such a nerd that I immediately checked myself and it's true!
I typed "reylo r" and Reylo romance third after "Reylo reddit"and "Reylo rec". We are not the only ones who think it will happen, may people think it is at least possible. I wonder how many antis have typed that as well Twisted Evil . They may hate the idea but they are already getting ready for what's coming, LOL
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Post by snufkin on Tue 31 May 2016, 6:03 pm

OK the soap opera discussion made me LOL because one of the thoughts I had after watching TFA for the first time is that in a lot of ways, it reminds me of the telenovellas we get imported here in the States, not to mention the ones I've seen when watching TV (that counts as a cultural experience, right?) while traveling through various Latin American countries. And in some countries, telenovelas aren't relegated to daytime TV but are prime time viewing that cover complex social topics like religion and cloning. Like I was surprised watching one in a bar when I was in Brazil because I recognized Murilo Benício (very high profile actor) as one of the leads. So it's actually a good analogy in many ways.
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Post by Guest on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 5:48 am

@snufkin wrote:OK the soap opera discussion made me LOL because one of the thoughts I had after watching TFA for the first time is that in a lot of ways, it reminds me of the telenovellas we get imported here in the States, not to mention the ones I've seen when watching TV (that counts as a cultural experience, right?) while traveling through various Latin American countries. And in some countries, telenovelas aren't relegated to daytime TV but are prime time viewing that cover complex social topics like religion and cloning. Like I was surprised watching one in a bar when I was in Brazil because I recognized Murilo Benício (very high profile actor) as one of the leads. So it's actually a good analogy in many ways.
@snufkin
That is "O clone" or "The clone" In English. "El clone" is Spanish version and it's not even close to the original. It's older telenovella. Murilo is male lead. It is very complex indeed. His character(Lucas) visits Marocco (I think) with his uncle where he sees young girl (Jade) dancing belly dance in her room. They meet, fall in love, but she has to marry another man, Muslim (Said). Lucas returns to Brazil. His twin brother dies. Uncle secretly clones Lucas. Jade marries Said, who's a good man and loves her very much, she cares about him but still loves Lucas. She gives birth to Said's daughter and kind of forgets about Lucas. 10 years later she accidentally meets Lucas's clone. That's very basic plot, first 5-6 episodes.
It's actually very well written, it's sci fi/telenovella. As you said it deals with religious differences(Lucas is Christian, Jade is Muslim) cultural differences(Brazil/USA/Marocco/Europe) drug addiction (few characters are drug users, including Lucas's daughter, it's all very realistic) cloning (who gave the right to his uncle to create clone and play God/who is that man, is he just a copy, does he have his own life, who is his father...), racism ( the woman who gave birth to the clone had artificial insemination because her partner couldn't have children, but she is black and the baby is white so no one believes her it's her child and people bully her for having white child)..topics are very serious, it's not just a love story. And the soundtrack is very good. Fan fact: "Desert rose" by Sting is for this series Wink
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289800/
edit: 20 years later, not 10, sorry Smile

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Post by vaderito on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 9:52 am

this is rey's face when Han says: "face of my son" and Kylo unmasks:

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Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 9:56 am

@vaderito wrote:this is rey's face when Han says: "face of my son" and Kylo unmasks:

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@vaderito

It always seems to me like she's about to smile there.
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Post by snufkin on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 10:27 am

@bela.mesecina - great memory! I did watch part of O Clone here in the States, where most Brazilian telenovellas are dubbed into Spanish (it's an easy way to keep up with my language comprehension). Other big one we got here on Univision was Xica da Silva (about slavery in Brazil and sex/gender roles in power) and of course, Yo Soy Betty La Fea. The one I mentioned above with Murilo Benecio, I don't know the name. Just that he's made up to look like Antonio Banderes' character in Mujeres al borde de un ataque de nervios. Like for a second I was like "what is Antonion Banderes doing on a telenovella? And then I was like "OMG, it's Murillo Benecio!"

There isn't the same stigma in Brazil that you'd find here in the U.S. Or maybe it's just that I wish my other favorite actor from that part of the Americas, Ricardo Darin (loved him in El Secreto en sus Ojos) would turn up on a telenovella because his films are sometimes few and far between here in the States.
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Post by Guest on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 11:19 am

@snufkin wrote:@bela.mesecina - great memory! I did watch part of O Clone here in the States, where most Brazilian telenovellas are dubbed into Spanish (it's an easy way to keep up with my language comprehension). Other big one we got here on Univision was Xica da Silva (about slavery in Brazil and sex/gender roles in power) and of course, Yo Soy Betty La Fea. The one I mentioned above with Murilo Benecio, I don't know the name. Just that he's made up to look like Antonio Banderes' character in Mujeres al borde de un ataque de nervios. Like for a second I was like "what is Antonion Banderes doing on a telenovella? And then I was like "OMG, it's Murillo Benecio!"

There isn't the same stigma in Brazil that you'd find here in the U.S. Or maybe it's just that I wish my other favorite actor from that part of the Americas, Ricardo Darin (loved him in El Secreto en sus Ojos) would turn up on a telenovella because his films are sometimes few and far between here in the States.
@snufkin
Thanks, I watched it as a child and it inspired me to start learning belly dance, best choice ever Smile I don't usually watch telenovellas, last one I saw was Russian Bednaya Nastya, but it's full of real historical events and it's similar to Reylo in some parts.If you watched it in Spanish than that's probably Spanish version, with different actors and everything...Or was it Brazilian version (with Murilo Benício and Giovanna Antonelli) just dubbed in Spanish?

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Post by snufkin on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 11:36 am

@bela.mesecina - it was the original with Murilo Benício and Giovanna Antonelli, dubbed into Spanish and run on Univision (largest Spanish language channel in the United States). The majority of telenovellas that show here in the States are direct from the Spanish speaking Latin American countries and they're way more risk taking/interesting that our soap operas. There's been ones recently both about Celia Cruz's rise as the Queen of Salsa with the backdrop of the Cuban revolution and there have been ones about narcotrafficking, including Pablo Escobar. I keep seeing billboards near my work for one about El Senior de los Cielos, which I'm sure has to be about trafficking. Or there's another one about a woman truck driver.

Anyways, I am 100% serious that besides my whole "Whoa, those two are totally going to hook up at some point. She's 100% not his cousin" thought after the first time I saw TFA was "this feels like I just sat through the first episode of a telenovella set in Space." I'm sure there's an argument to be made that Game of Thrones (which I don't really follow but it's hard to avoid because it's a huge thing) is a bit of a telenovella itself.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 6:55 pm

My Mom raised me on the ABC soaps, and I kept up with One Life to Live and General Hospital at various times in my life. Daytime soaps can obviously be hit and miss because they are made on such quick schedules (I think they shoot a hour-long episode everyday) and they have to keep producing content no matter if the writers are inspired or not, but I have to say that considering those conditions, I have watched completely excellent episodes with great dialogue and great acting. The "must-produce-now" conditions also allow for some risky storylines, which are always fun whether they turn out good or not. At least people are "just going for it" creatively. They are also amazing training grounds for young actors. Tommy Lee Jones, Julianne Moore, Laurence Fishburne all started in daytime soaps. With the tight schedules, they are probably the closest thing to theatre on television. Those people need to work crazy hard and do everything in a few takes. Though I don't think AD was ever on a soap (he was on Law & Order though ... the other great training ground for actors ), I think that his extensive theatre training and experience makes all the difference in the world. Being onstage in a pressure cooker situation helps actors learn to be ready for everything.

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Post by IoJovi on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 7:04 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:My Mom raised me on the ABC soaps, and I kept up with One Life to Live and General Hospital at various times in my life. Daytime soaps can obviously be hit and miss because they are made on such quick schedules (I think they shoot a hour-long episode everyday) and they have to keep producing content no matter if the writers are inspired or not, but I have to say that considering those conditions, I have watched completely excellent episodes with great dialogue and great acting. The "must-produce-now" conditions also allow for some risky storylines, which are always fun whether they turn out good or not. At least people are "just going for it" creatively. They are also amazing training grounds for young actors. Tommy Lee Jones, Julianne Moore, Laurence Fishburne all started in daytime soaps. With the tight schedules, they are probably the closest thing to theatre on television. Those people need to work crazy hard and do everything in a few takes. Though I don't think AD was ever on a soap (he was on Law & Order though ... the other great training ground for actors ), I think that his extensive theatre training and experience makes all the difference in the world. Being onstage in a pressure cooker situation helps actors learn to be ready for everything.

@SoloSideCousin

So much this!!!! ^^^ I was an avid fan of All My Children from the mid 80s to its end in 2011. I also watched One Life to Live sporadically. Soaps produce some of the BEST actors in the industry, (and admittedly, some of the worst Lolilol ) It always killed me when some of the ones in the latter category would get delusions of grandeur and leave for film, never to be heard from again.

On the flip side, some of the great ones like David Canary would make it a life long career.

I never thought Sarah Michelle Gellar was a great actress, and when her career took off after leaving AMC, I was kind of shocked (no offense to the Buffy lovers here, but I never cared for her). She did seem to improve over the years, and if you compare her later work to her first day on AMC, there's a very significant difference.
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Post by snufkin on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 7:08 pm

@solosidecousin - one of the best gigs my late uncle had was on Another World, in terms of having a steady paycheck and working with some relatively well known actors whose company he enjoyed. But a huge reason why I get quesy over things like shipping or even ogling actors/actresses was that he rather gleefully shared with me (as an impressionable 15 year old) some of the fan mail he got. Which could be insane and at the very least, I felt mortified on behalf of some of the things sent to him. On the plus side, he got a pretty swank car rental upgrade for one family Thanksgiving visit because everybody at the rental agency was excited that they were being visited by Bay City's #1 mobster. And it broke the ice when I first met one now old friend of mine, because it turned out underneath her totally punk exterior, she was a die hard fan of that show and followed the storyline my uncle was in.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 7:12 pm

Guys, this soap opera talk is 100% off topic. Like, c'mon! WTF?
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