So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 9:43 am

@Night Huntress wrote:@special_cases

I disagree- but it's perfectly fine... everyone is free to perceive the story in different ways. Cool

I doubt LF will spell out YES- Ben Solo is the reincarnation of Anakin Skywalker...they will leave that ambiguous for the audience to see whatever they want in the ST.
@Night Huntress

I am not expecting them to do that by any means. I think sharing DNA with Anakin is enough to explain the character and story parallels. And they've really hammered home the Rey is a nobody orphan thing, so to reveal that she's reincarnated royalty doesn't make much sense to me at this point either. But I think the hints at it, if that's how you choose to see them, are interesting.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by snufkin on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 10:52 am

While I think that they're revisiting and playing with themes and a particular character from the PT as part of a larger story about a family (anybody read 100 Years of Solitude and tried to keep up with the Aurelianos?), I have a really hard time imagining that reincarnation is going to be an actual thing in the story just thinking about how Leia would feel about birthing her biological father given their history together. If anything, I find it more plausible given the repetition in the dialogue and Kasdan's quotes that it's more a story about a young man who has "too much of his (scoundrel) father in him," the father tries to send him off on what he thinks is the path to a better life, but in the end the son has to come to accept that he's more like his father than his noble lineage and that will be his salvation. And Rey's absolutely nothing like Padme, aka Diane Court in Space.


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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by ZioRen on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 11:06 am

I think the parallels are on purpose and it could be a "redemption" of Anidala in a meta way, but I absolutely do not believe they're actually reincarnations of Padme and Anakin. Both of which are related to Kylo, which gives the idea a layer of weird to me. I also agree with @snufkin that Rey is not much like Padme and they're stressing Kylo's connection to Han hard, harder than they are to Anakin.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by snufkin on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 11:33 am

@ZioRen I could see them going there if this were Dune (like the gholas), but SW wouldn’t ever get that weird. We know how Han and Leia felt about her biological father so I’m just imagining how that’d be another strike against the idea that they genuinely loved their child. And Snoke even spells it out, “too much of your father’s heart, Young Solo.” I have no expectations but am curious to see what details come out from Solo which may feel connected to this.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by nickandnora on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 11:36 am

I suppose another way of looking at it then is that, if at the point of Anakin's death he was symbolically equal parts Padme and Anakin, was reborn as Ben Solo, and then Rey was then born as an offshoot of that, Rey and Ben aren't 1:1 analogues of Padme and Anakin respectively; they're both a combination of both of them.

That makes even more sense, especially when you consider Rey's personality in spite of her upbringing (she's basically a nobody slave like Anakin), and Ben's upbringing as royalty and desire to bring something new (politically) to the galaxy. Both have a bit of Padme in them, and both have a bit of Anakin in them.

And please understand when I talk about this, I'm mainly talking about how the story group, writers, and whoever did the outline might be thinking in deeper, symbolic terms as they execute the film. Just like no one comes right out in the middle of the movie as says: "Hey guys, Joseph Campbell informed this part of the film" or "Hi Anakin Oedipus Rex!" I'm sure they're NOT going to use the word "reincarnated" anywhere near the film either. But interviews after the fact, analysis from official sources, supplemental material, etc. might be a bit forthcoming on what the writers saw as happening while they were telling the story.

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by special_cases on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 12:19 pm

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by orangedelamer on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 12:59 pm

@special_cases I love this parallel so much.
Anakin/Vader lost the love of his life and Ben/Kylo's love is coming to him alive and well Smile

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by special_cases on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 1:48 pm

@orangedelamer

And it seems that these parallels are backwards for ROTS

Padme's funeral & Rey is coming to Kylo

Padme is dying after giving birth & Rey tortured by Snoke





Obi-Wan cuts Anakin (and Palpatine saves Anakin) & Kylo kills Snoke

and here the moment Obi takes Anakin's lightsaber



Obi-Wan and Anakin fight each other & Rey and Kylo are fighting together

Anakin's proposal to rule the galaxy & Kylo's proposal to rule the galaxy

Padme comes to Anakin (with C3PO as a pilot) & Rey leaves Kylo (with Chewie as a pilot later)

Notice what she is wearing



Anakin acts as Vader for the first time ("Lord Vader") & Kylo becomes Supreme Leader

Obi discovers Anakin's fall and tells Padme & Luke returns, tells Leia that Ben is not gone and confronts Kylo

Last time Padme sees Anakin before his turn and he asks her to wait for him & Last connection between Rey and Kylo



Notice what she is wearing



And the next scene is where they are apart and are looking at each other like they have connection:



You know which scene is the next? When Anakin tells Padme that he will save her and he is not a Jedi he should be.  Laughing


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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by snufkin on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 2:25 pm

@nickandnora Oh for sure, symbolic. It's just that Reddit and YouTube post TLJ are full of discussions where they seem to be arguing that it's literal reincarnation. Which is where I just wonder how Leia would respond to her OBGYN (if those exist yet in Star Wars given how women's healthcare is depicted in the PT) telling her that she'd just given birth to the biological father she hated. But I totally get the symbolic cinematic part. Especially with the parallels listed between the PT and what happens between these two.

@special_cases wrote:You know which scene is the next? When Anakin tells Padme that he will save her and he is not a Jedi he should be.

I barely paid attention to my one viewing of the PT outside of Ewan McGregor -- but boy does somebody glaring daggers at Snoke in his first meeting and then smashing up his helmet speak to the bolded. Somebody's not the Big Bad Darksider he should be. And I figured that the eventual betrayal/murder of Snoke, as both a power grab and because he wants to save his special ladyfriend b/c she's marked for death, seems pretty straight out of the PT. What is interesting is that there are so many fans post TLJ who love the PT who're now fully on board about these being overt references to the PT and wanting to talk about the characters. Like it was there in TFA, but it really hit people over the head in TLJ. And it's finally tipped the more sensible ones over into seeing what was always there in the first movie.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by rawpowah on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 2:56 pm

As much as the ST has made me appreciate the prequels, the reincarnation theory is too tinfoily for me. The reverse Anidala is there, but I don't see Kylo and Rey as reincarnations.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by DeeBee on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 5:35 pm

@nickandnora wrote:I suppose another way of looking at it then is that, if at the point of Anakin's death he was symbolically equal parts Padme and Anakin, was reborn as Ben Solo, and then Rey was then born as an offshoot of that, Rey and Ben aren't 1:1 analogues of Padme and Anakin respectively; they're both a combination of both of them.

That makes even more sense, especially when you consider Rey's personality in spite of her upbringing (she's basically a nobody slave like Anakin), and Ben's upbringing as royalty and desire to bring something new (politically) to the galaxy. Both have a bit of Padme in them, and both have a bit of Anakin in them.

And please understand when I talk about this, I'm mainly talking about how the story group, writers, and whoever did the outline might be thinking in deeper, symbolic terms as they execute the film. Just like no one comes right out in the middle of the movie as says: "Hey guys, Joseph Campbell informed this part of the film" or "Hi Anakin Oedipus Rex!" I'm sure they're NOT going to use the word "reincarnated" anywhere near the film either. But interviews after the fact, analysis from official sources, supplemental material, etc. might be a bit forthcoming on what the writers saw as happening while they were telling the story.
@nickandnora

Hi nickandnora - I watched Wayward Jedi last night! And.. then I went on to watch the documentary 'the mythology of star wars' - I bet it's been discussed here before as it's gold.. so I might try and track down that discussion..
Just wanted to say here that my impression of the hero's journey is that the rebirth is metaphorical or a representation.
I thought wayward jedi's video was mostly fabulous - but I would draw different conclusions to him -he thinks literal reincarnation of Anakin and Padme is ahead for Kylo/Ben and Rey - I think it's metaphorical, and all the fascinating info he shared can work just as well with the story of a metaphorical rebirth told through family generations.

I agree with you nickandnora -  that SW may not even spell this all out, and it may be left open for the audience to interpret how far to take it. I think this is most likely and a good call!
An audience familiar with the concept of reincarnation may love it and see this - whereas other audiences won't see it and be just as happy. I hope haaaa.

@nickandnora wrote:
I have to say though, Padme/Amidala is actually the biggest thing selling me on the reincarnation theory being literal (that and Campbell's Hero's Journey which suggests literal rebirth). One could argue that Anakin turned himself around at the end, so he's done what he was supposed to. But the character of Padme just kind of sits there in the prequel trilogy with all this potential, and yet she got weaker and weaker and met a really stupid end. But once W. Jedi pointed out that the point is probably that Padme was MEANT to save the world, and Anakin (the Force incarnate) was MEANT to be a supporting selfless figure, the whole damn story plus a literal reincarnation makes a hell of a lot more sense. Basically: you could argue that Anakin's story was over, but Padme's story was definitely NOT over. But you're not going to have one without the other, so here we are: Ben and Rey. The female "energy" is going to save the world (as she was supposed to), and the male "energy" is going to be selfless (as he should have been all along) and let her.
@nickandnora
- Other than Campbell's hero journey suggesting literal rebirth, I agree with you. I feel the same way. I'd love to see some resolution for Padme - I figure we don't have to have reincarnation to get it though, but I do hope we will get it. Maybe Anakin has found a way to be reunited with Padme in the afterlife. I would love to see that. We can have Anakin and Padme giving their blessing to Rey and Kylo/Ben in some way maybe.. that would bring things full circle maybe?
I feel like the SW universe hasn't forgotten Padme and that she will be revisited in some way in IX. I recently read the canon Leia comics and she is briefly seen by Leia depicted on a wall mural on Naboo - Leia has a moment of recognition that is very mysterious... And of course as wayward Jedi pointed out she is referred to in vader comics...

Padme was such a hero - I'm thinking her hero's journey hasn't been finished yet. She hasn't gotten her 'reward'. Err if I understand it correctly.. she was a hero regardless of whether she had the force or not. She died tragically and has not yet had her metaphorical rebirth. I think.. this may be left to her ancestors to bring closure. When watching the mythology of star wars - George Lucas talked about heroism alot. He said every day we make a choice to be heros - there is heroism in being noble, being compassionate... and I was struck by Padme's heroism. Her test was following Anakin to the dark side, and she resisted... but so far we are yet to see her 'reward' - While I don't see Rey reincarnated padme - Rey may be instrumental in giving Padme that reward - Peace throughout the galaxy is I think maybe something that could represent a reward for Padme and is in line with her values and convictions. Or maybe the establishment of a government that works for all citizens of the galaxy at the end of IX. Fun to explore how the Anidala/ Reylo stories will come together as a whole!
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by special_cases on Fri 23 Mar 2018, 10:10 am

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Darth Dementor on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 2:37 pm

After watching this it is blatant that Reylo is the Anidala in reverse. I would say the biggest clue is Ben and Rey's relationship is starting off where Anakin and Padme's is ending. The latter's ship fell apart in the very last film in it's trilogy. The former has an entire movie to work through their problems and reunite.

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by vaderito on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 4:25 pm

@Darth Dementor wrote:After watching this it is blatant that Reylo is the Anidala in reverse. I would say the biggest clue is Ben and Rey's relationship is starting off where Anakin and Padme's is ending. The latter's ship fell apart in the very last film in it's trilogy. The former has an entire movie to work through their problems and reunite.
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OMg, this is fantastic! I'm so happy this theory is getting traction, it's truly connecting all 3 trilogies. cheers
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by special_cases on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 9:33 pm

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by californiagirl on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 10:00 pm

@special_cases

Such a shame many other SW fans can't see parallels like this. It honestly must be weird to view these films in a vacuum. Like everything is just arbitrary and by chance. That's... not how storytelling works, guys.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 7:18 am

Attack of the Clones ended in a wedding... TLJ ended in a break up Laughing
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Riri on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 7:29 am

@Cowgirlsamurai

ROTS ended with permanent separation and death.

Episode 9 will end in a wedding Wink (well I hope anyway Very Happy)

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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 9:21 am

@Riri wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai

ROTS ended with permanent separation and death.

Episode 9 will end in a wedding Wink (well I hope anyway Very Happy)
@Riri

Exactly. Or at least proof that Rey and Ben are together. I still hope there’s an epilogue with a kid Smile
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Lily Snape on Tue 24 Apr 2018, 1:29 am

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@Riri wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai

ROTS ended with permanent separation and death.

Episode 9 will end in a wedding Wink (well I hope anyway Very Happy)
@Riri

Exactly. Or at least proof that Rey and Ben are together. I still hope there’s an epilogue with a kid Smile
@Cowgirlsamurai

I want to see the two of them happy together, with at least one child (my aunt once told me that the most healing experience she had after a pretty horrible childhood with a narcissistic mother was being a good and loving mom to her own kids. This advice was given because my siblings and I had an even more messed-up childhood ourselves—and I’ve found that she’s right. Being a good parent is very healing after a rough childhood. And I want to see that for Rey and Ben, like I wanted a family for Harry Potter.)

I also want to see Rey (and hey, maybe Ben—Defense Against the Dark Arts or something a bit more balanced?) teaching Jedi kiddos—with the kids being picked up by their parents at the end of the day and a “See you tomorrow.” I mean, there’s the option of hyperspace in this galaxy—surely people can drop off and pick up their kids at Jedi school. Or at least home every weekend, anyway. I just want to see something healthier than the “drag them away from their parents” method that alienated Ben and Anakin, and something other than the emphasis on detachment that contributed to Anakin’s downfall. I want to see other Force-sensitives —not just Rey and Ben—being allowed to love their parents, siblings, and friends, with the idea that they too will be allowed to fall in love when they grow up. That would be Reverse Anidala in its own way, too.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Night Huntress on Tue 24 Apr 2018, 2:02 am

@Lily Snape wrote:

I also want to see Rey (and hey, maybe Ben—Defense Against the Dark Arts or something a bit more balanced?) teaching Jedi kiddos—with the kids being picked up by their parents at the end of the day and a “See you tomorrow.” I mean, there’s the option of hyperspace in this galaxy—surely people can drop off and pick up their kids at Jedi school. Or at least home every weekend, anyway. I just want to see something healthier than the “drag them away from their parents” method that alienated Ben and Anakin, and something other than the emphasis on detachment that contributed to Anakin’s downfall. I want to see other Force-sensitives —not just Rey and Ben—being allowed to love their parents, siblings, and friends, with the idea that they too will be allowed to fall in love when they grow up. That would be Reverse Anidala in its own way, too.
@Lily Snape

that's how Luke handled his "Jedi-Akademi" in the old EU...I guess it was partly because those books were written before the prequels- but anyways the went on with that idea and it was a very good alternative in my opinion.
Also, they could start to train at all ages - they don't have to be children.
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Re: So what is "Reverse Anidala" and how do you see it playing out in the next two movies?

Post by Lily Snape on Wed 25 Apr 2018, 12:40 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Lily Snape wrote:

I also want to see Rey (and hey, maybe Ben—Defense Against the Dark Arts or something a bit more balanced?) teaching Jedi kiddos—with the kids being picked up by their parents at the end of the day and a “See you tomorrow.” I mean, there’s the option of hyperspace in this galaxy—surely people can drop off and pick up their kids at Jedi school. Or at least home every weekend, anyway. I just want to see something healthier than the “drag them away from their parents” method that alienated Ben and Anakin, and something other than the emphasis on detachment that contributed to Anakin’s downfall. I want to see other Force-sensitives —not just Rey and Ben—being allowed to love their parents, siblings, and friends, with the idea that they too will be allowed to fall in love when they grow up. That would be Reverse Anidala in its own way, too.
@Lily Snape

that's how Luke handled his "Jedi-Akademi" in the old EU...I guess it was partly because those books were written before the prequels- but anyways the went on with that idea and it was a very good alternative in my opinion.
Also, they could start to train at all ages - they don't have to be children.
@Night Huntress

I’m totally with you about all ages being trained. That too was an issue with Anakin— the nonsense about him being too old.

I should add: the whole being a decent parent thing—my oldest is 17, and he and his sister and cousin were apparently talking while on a road trip with my sister about how they have no big obstacles to write about on their college essays because they have had good lives, loving and reasonable parents, good friends, etc. I’ve spent 17 years thinking “how can I NOT be like my parents?”, but that was good to hear. Smile And it heals something to do things right for them that were neglected or warped for me. I think that even with their baggage, Rey and Ben could do a better job with the next generation.
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