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Post by C.V on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 12:14 am

^ also i keep thinking back to when MSW reported that the heroes are neither a solo or a skywalker, implying that the heroes wouldnt be but maybe the bad guy would be and it turned out it was kylo who was a skywalker later on. his the summation of the legacy characters before him, a skywalker,solo,organa and amidala plus he also carries obi won kenobi's name as well "Ben".i mean at this point given the things we know it wouldnt make sense for her to be a skywalker or would be the least bit interesting since it would become's luke story rather then her own.

i think its a gutsy and creative move to have a young skywalker that's on the darkside. i feel like people expect skywalkers to always be the lead and heroic in a star wars movies but they dont have to be, there can still be a skywalker story without them being the protag or being pure good.


Last edited by C.V on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:14 am

@Xylo Ren wrote:Okay so what "leaks" or "spoilers" can actually be verified at this point?

I don't believe any random twitter accounts or IG. I mean cold, hard evidence from pictures or cast.

-Space horse
-blurry pictures from Ach-To
-air port pics of Mark, Daisy, and Adam

...anything else?
@Xylo Ren

I ll add here with about 80% of certianity MSWs posts on:

Oscar Isaac s scene with Laura Dern
KOR on Anch-to (there presence of them not the entire leak)
A chicken-monster we saw on the blurry photo
A Tree on Anch-to
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 4:42 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:Okay so what "leaks" or "spoilers" can actually be verified at this point?

I don't believe any random twitter accounts or IG. I mean cold, hard evidence from pictures or cast.

-Space horse
-blurry pictures from Ach-To
-air port pics of Mark, Daisy, and Adam

...anything else?
@Xylo Ren

I ll add here with about 80% of certianity MSWs posts on:

Oscar Isaac s scene with Laura Dern
KOR on Anch-to (there presence of them not the entire leak)
A chicken-monster we saw on the blurry photo
A Tree on Anch-to
@Darth_Awakened

I'm 50-50 on that Laura Dern scene. It could be true of course, but I think too many of these rumours are banking on "hey, look, a guy we trust believes this rumour, therefore this rumour must be true". It's still just a rumour, from an anonymous source.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 5:39 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:Okay so what "leaks" or "spoilers" can actually be verified at this point?

I don't believe any random twitter accounts or IG. I mean cold, hard evidence from pictures or cast.

-Space horse
-blurry pictures from Ach-To
-air port pics of Mark, Daisy, and Adam

...anything else?
@Xylo Ren

I ll add here with about 80% of certianity MSWs posts on:

Oscar Isaac s scene with Laura Dern
KOR on Anch-to (there presence of them not the entire leak)
A chicken-monster we saw on the blurry photo
A Tree on Anch-to
@Darth_Awakened

I'm 50-50 on that Laura Dern scene. It could be true of course, but I think too many of these rumours are banking on "hey, look, a guy we trust believes this rumour, therefore this rumour must be true". It's still just a rumour, from an anonymous source.
@Darth Dingbat

It depends on credibility of MSW s source.
I assume Jason established so far a reliable net of "spies" due to his experience with TFA.
But who knows.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 5:56 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:Okay so what "leaks" or "spoilers" can actually be verified at this point?

I don't believe any random twitter accounts or IG. I mean cold, hard evidence from pictures or cast.

-Space horse
-blurry pictures from Ach-To
-air port pics of Mark, Daisy, and Adam

...anything else?
@Xylo Ren

I ll add here with about 80% of certianity MSWs posts on:

Oscar Isaac s scene with Laura Dern
KOR on Anch-to (there presence of them not the entire leak)
A chicken-monster we saw on the blurry photo
A Tree on Anch-to
@Darth_Awakened

I'm 50-50 on that Laura Dern scene. It could be true of course, but I think too many of these rumours are banking on "hey, look, a guy we trust believes this rumour, therefore this rumour must be true". It's still just a rumour, from an anonymous source.
@Darth Dingbat

It depends on credibility of MSW s source.
I assume Jason established so far a reliable net of "spies" due to his experience with TFA.
But who knows.
@Darth_Awakened

That one didn't come from MSW though, did it? I thought it was Latino Review.

Also, any network of spies can be compromised Wink But as usual, I think I've been reading too many John le Carré novels.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 6:23 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:Okay so what "leaks" or "spoilers" can actually be verified at this point?

I don't believe any random twitter accounts or IG. I mean cold, hard evidence from pictures or cast.

-Space horse
-blurry pictures from Ach-To
-air port pics of Mark, Daisy, and Adam

...anything else?
@Xylo Ren

I ll add here with about 80% of certianity MSWs posts on:

Oscar Isaac s scene with Laura Dern
KOR on Anch-to (there presence of them not the entire leak)
A chicken-monster we saw on the blurry photo
A Tree on Anch-to
@Darth_Awakened

I'm 50-50 on that Laura Dern scene. It could be true of course, but I think too many of these rumours are banking on "hey, look, a guy we trust believes this rumour, therefore this rumour must be true". It's still just a rumour, from an anonymous source.
@Darth Dingbat

It depends on credibility of MSW s source.
I assume Jason established so far a reliable net of "spies" due to his experience with TFA.
But who knows.
@Darth_Awakened

That one didn't come from MSW though, did it? I thought it was Latino Review.

Also, any network of spies can be compromised Wink But as usual, I think I've been reading too many John le Carré novels.
@Darth Dingbat

Huh.
Do not remember well honestly.

On the network spies:
I was following very closely the filming of Game of Thrones, as a active member at fan community on internet.
We established a reliable network of all sorts of spies (throughout the years you just know who is reliable and who is not)
That s why I think that Jason has something similar an at this stage (after TFA filming expirience) I think he can say with much certainity what is fake and what is not fake.
I doubt that he has a "man" directly in the production or on set - but you can collect various info indirectly - that s why I would say that facts he presents are much or less legit (definitely way more legit than any reddit or tweeter attention seeker)
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Post by ZioRen on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:35 am

@C.V wrote:^ also i keep thinking back to when MSW reported that the heroes are neither a solo or a skywalker, implying that the heroes wouldnt be but maybe the bad guy would be and it turned out it was kylo who was a skywalker later on. his the summation of the legacy characters before him, a skywalker,solo,organa and amidala plus he also carries obi won kenobi's name as well "Ben".i mean at this point given the things we know it wouldnt make sense for her to be a skywalker or would be the least bit interesting since it would become's luke story rather then her own.

i think its a gutsy and creative move to have a young skywalker that's on the darkside. i feel like people expect skywalkers to always be the lead and heroic in a star wars movies but they dont have to be, there can still be a skywalker story without them being the protag or being pure good.
@C.V

Which is entirely silly because ANAKIN. SKYWALKER. Kylo is completely par for the course for a Skywalker, everyone just wants to forget that. The Skywalker legacy has as much villainy as heroics. And if we all get our way, Kylo will do a reverse Anakin! I feel like it kind of has to be that way.

What is the story value in making him just evolve from reluctant villain to pure big bad villain anyways? Right now most of the audience is wondering why they should sympathize with Kylo at all. There'd be too little tragic bite in just making Kylo's arc a road to becoming a more ruthless villain. That's not really super satisfying from a narrative standpoint. That kind of storyline is only compelling if we start at the beginning like Anakin's story did in the Prequels.
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Post by Xylo Ren on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:43 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:Okay so what "leaks" or "spoilers" can actually be verified at this point?

I don't believe any random twitter accounts or IG. I mean cold, hard evidence from pictures or cast.

-Space horse
-blurry pictures from Ach-To
-air port pics of Mark, Daisy, and Adam

...anything else?
@Xylo Ren

I ll add here with about 80% of certianity MSWs posts on:

Oscar Isaac s scene with Laura Dern
KOR on Anch-to (there presence of them not the entire leak)
A chicken-monster we saw on the blurry photo
A Tree on Anch-to

Thank you! I knew I was forgetting some. Smile
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Post by EchoBase on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:53 am

@ZioRen wrote:
@C.V wrote:^ also i keep thinking back to when MSW reported that the heroes are neither a solo or a skywalker, implying that the heroes wouldnt be but maybe the bad guy would be and it turned out it was kylo who was a skywalker later on. his the summation of the legacy characters before him, a skywalker,solo,organa and amidala plus he also carries obi won kenobi's name as well "Ben".i mean at this point given the things we know it wouldnt make sense for her to be a skywalker or would be the least bit interesting since it would become's luke story rather then her own.

i think its a gutsy and creative move to have a young skywalker that's on the darkside. i feel like people expect skywalkers to always be the lead and heroic in a star wars movies but they dont have to be, there can still be a skywalker story without them being the protag or being pure good.
@C.V

Which is entirely silly because ANAKIN. SKYWALKER. Kylo is completely par for the course for a Skywalker, everyone just wants to forget that. The Skywalker legacy has as much villainy as heroics. And if we all get our way, Kylo will do a reverse Anakin! I feel like it kind of has to be that way.

What is the story value in making him just evolve from reluctant villain to pure big bad villain anyways? Right now most of the audience is wondering why they should sympathize with Kylo at all. There'd be too little tragic bite in just making Kylo's arc a road to becoming a more ruthless villain. That's not really super satisfying from a narrative standpoint. That kind of storyline is only compelling if we start at the beginning like Anakin's story did in the Prequels.
@ZioRen

If Kylo is Anakin in reverse, maybe he will do something like this:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 7 - Page 2 Anigif_sub-buzz-16513-1466452653-3

Sorry, having silly moments here Very Happy.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:56 am

@EchoBase
OMG is that baby Dory!? I haven't seen that! So freaking cute!

I love Pixar films. <3
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Post by EchoBase on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:57 am

Woohoo, this is interesting:

http://mashable.com/2016/06/21/star-wars-aftermath-life-debt/#Y_PplUxcHEqU

From Aftermath -Life debt.

"
It’s her child.

This isn’t just a mother’s recognition of the life inside—that, she already knows. She’s already well aware of the bump and tumble of that little person she carries. (And she already knows about the heartburn, and the pre-breakfast nausea, and the post-breakfast nausea, and the post-post-breakfast hunger ...)

This goes beyond all that. This is something separate from her. It isn’t a physical feeling. It is all around her. It suffuses her like the perfume from a jungle of flowers. As such, she is suddenly aware of her child’s mind and spirit: She senses pluck and wit and steel blood and a keen mind and by the blood of Alderaan is this one going to be a fighter!"

Yeah, Kylo is just an one-dimensional, irredeemable villain. That's why he is described this way.


@FrolickingFizzgig: yeeees, it's Dory. So adorable Smile.


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Post by ZioRen on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 8:57 am

@EchoBase wrote:
@ZioRen

If Kylo is Anakin in reverse, maybe he will do something like this:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 7 - Page 2 Anigif_sub-buzz-16513-1466452653-3

Sorry, having silly moments here Very Happy.
@EchoBase

I'm declaring it official canon that Ben Solo absolutely adored the beach until he learned about his grandfather. Now he pretends he despises it. Laughing
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Post by ZioRen on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:02 am

@EchoBase wrote:Woohoo, this is interesting:

http://mashable.com/2016/06/21/star-wars-aftermath-life-debt/#Y_PplUxcHEqU

From Aftermath -Life debt.

"
It’s her child.

This isn’t just a mother’s recognition of the life inside—that, she already knows. She’s already well aware of the bump and tumble of that little person she carries. (And she already knows about the heartburn, and the pre-breakfast nausea, and the post-breakfast nausea, and the post-post-breakfast hunger ...)

This goes beyond all that. This is something separate from her. It isn’t a physical feeling. It is all around her. It suffuses her like the perfume from a jungle of flowers. As such, she is suddenly aware of her child’s mind and spirit: She senses pluck and wit and steel blood and a keen mind and by the blood of Alderaan is this one going to be a fighter!"
@EchoBase

I was just about to quote that because I'm in a tizzy of feels over it! Ben... Crying or Very sad
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Post by EchoBase on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:03 am

@ZioRen wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Woohoo, this is interesting:

http://mashable.com/2016/06/21/star-wars-aftermath-life-debt/#Y_PplUxcHEqU

From Aftermath -Life debt.

"
It’s her child.

This isn’t just a mother’s recognition of the life inside—that, she already knows. She’s already well aware of the bump and tumble of that little person she carries. (And she already knows about the heartburn, and the pre-breakfast nausea, and the post-breakfast nausea, and the post-post-breakfast hunger ...)

This goes beyond all that. This is something separate from her. It isn’t a physical feeling. It is all around her. It suffuses her like the perfume from a jungle of flowers. As such, she is suddenly aware of her child’s mind and spirit: She senses pluck and wit and steel blood and a keen mind and by the blood of Alderaan is this one going to be a fighter!"
@EchoBase

I was just about to quote that because I'm in a tizzy of feels over it! Ben... Crying or Very sad
@ZioRen

Yes, same here!
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:42 am

@EchoBase wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Woohoo, this is interesting:

http://mashable.com/2016/06/21/star-wars-aftermath-life-debt/#Y_PplUxcHEqU

From Aftermath -Life debt.

"
It’s her child.

This isn’t just a mother’s recognition of the life inside—that, she already knows. She’s already well aware of the bump and tumble of that little person she carries. (And she already knows about the heartburn, and the pre-breakfast nausea, and the post-breakfast nausea, and the post-post-breakfast hunger ...)

This goes beyond all that. This is something separate from her. It isn’t a physical feeling. It is all around her. It suffuses her like the perfume from a jungle of flowers. As such, she is suddenly aware of her child’s mind and spirit: She senses pluck and wit and steel blood and a keen mind and by the blood of Alderaan is this one going to be a fighter!"
@EchoBase

I was just about to quote that because I'm in a tizzy of feels over it! Ben... Crying or Very sad
@ZioRen

Yes, same here!
@EchoBase

Oh...

Her hands fly in front of her mouth as she both laughs and cries at the same time. This, she thinks, is the light side that Luke always goes on about—the promise of light, the promise of a new life . . .

And then, the black edging of the dark side encircles her bliss like a noose. Because what rides swift on the heels of hope but fear — a fear that stretches out far and wide like a growing shadow. Fear of having a child in an unstable galaxy. Fear of whether or not Han is alive — or Luke, too. Will the child grow up with a father? An uncle? A mentor? What is her legacy and what will her boy’s legacy be?

WAAAAAAAHHHHH

I see that LF and their associates are determined to part us with our money.
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Post by IoJovi on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:45 am

How is it that I have not read this book yet? It's been on my list, but I've been putting it off. I must rectify this immediately! bounce
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Post by Krafty on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:45 am

@EchoBase wrote:Woohoo, this is interesting:

http://mashable.com/2016/06/21/star-wars-aftermath-life-debt/#Y_PplUxcHEqU

From Aftermath -Life debt.

"
It’s her child.

This isn’t just a mother’s recognition of the life inside—that, she already knows. She’s already well aware of the bump and tumble of that little person she carries. (And she already knows about the heartburn, and the pre-breakfast nausea, and the post-breakfast nausea, and the post-post-breakfast hunger ...)

This goes beyond all that. This is something separate from her. It isn’t a physical feeling. It is all around her. It suffuses her like the perfume from a jungle of flowers. As such, she is suddenly aware of her child’s mind and spirit: She senses pluck and wit and steel blood and a keen mind and by the blood of Alderaan is this one going to be a fighter!"

Yeah, Kylo is just an one-dimensional, irredeemable villain. That's why he is described this way.


@FrolickingFizzgig: yeeees, it's Dory. So adorable Smile.
@EchoBase

Okay, yeah, if that doesn't make people love him a little bit, they must not have a heart. Little flickers of this Ben can still be seen in Kylo. Clearly this has to go somewhere. Wink
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Post by CienaRee on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:48 am

Oh,I feel so sad for baby Ben.It looks like his parents were already fighting before he was even born.Seriously WTH Han leaving your pregnant angry wife alone?I know we dont have the book yet but it still sucks.
But I think we got our first canon description of what kind of personality Ben Solo had before becoming Kylo Ren. Very Happy

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Post by EchoBase on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:50 am

@IoJovi wrote:How is it that I have not read this book yet? It's been on my list, but I've been putting it off. I must rectify this immediately! bounce
@IoJovi

Do you mean "Aftermath"? Because this one ("Life debt") will be released on July 19. It's the second part of a trilogy.


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Post by ZioRen on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:50 am

@IoJovi wrote:How is it that I have not read this book yet?  It's been on my list, but I've been putting it off.  I must rectify this immediately!   bounce
@IoJovi

This one isn't out yet! It's coming in July.

@CienaRee wrote:Oh,I feel so sad for baby Ben.It looks like his parents were already fighting before he was even born.Seriously WTH Han leaving your pregnant angry wife alone?I know we dont have the book yet but it still sucks.
But I think we got our first canon description of what kind of personality Ben Solo had before becoming Kylo Ren. Very Happy
@CienaRee

I love combining the little bits and pieces from the novels. Plucky, brave little Ben Solo who used to tussle with his friends and come inside winded and grinning. His mother loves him so much and just has to think about him to bring a smile to her face. I can't, they can't just NOT redeem him.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:54 am

What is that book exactly? I've never heard of it.

LF does seem pretty bent on promoting a specific image for Ben. He's very much advertised as the inevitable doomsday child who will drag himself back up from the depths of hell. That's the story I expect to see based on TFA, and I know Rey has to play a part in it, as the major protagonist. That makes you question what kind of relationship Rey and Kylo are going to forge. It'll be a transformational redemption no matter what, but will it even be possible for these two characters (whose interactions are already so charged and intense) to develop a completely platonic light youth/dark youth dynamic? I wouldn't mind if that was intended to be the case, but that's really not what their scenes in TFA pushed. :/


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Post by C.V on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:56 am

@EchoBase wrote:Woohoo, this is interesting:

http://mashable.com/2016/06/21/star-wars-aftermath-life-debt/#Y_PplUxcHEqU

From Aftermath -Life debt.

"
It’s her child.

This isn’t just a mother’s recognition of the life inside—that, she already knows. She’s already well aware of the bump and tumble of that little person she carries. (And she already knows about the heartburn, and the pre-breakfast nausea, and the post-breakfast nausea, and the post-post-breakfast hunger ...)

This goes beyond all that. This is something separate from her. It isn’t a physical feeling. It is all around her. It suffuses her like the perfume from a jungle of flowers. As such, she is suddenly aware of her child’s mind and spirit: She senses pluck and wit and steel blood and a keen mind and by the blood of Alderaan is this one going to be a fighter!"

Yeah, Kylo is just an one-dimensional, irredeemable villain. That's why he is described this way.


@FrolickingFizzgig: yeeees, it's Dory. So adorable Smile.
@EchoBase

@bold, right in the soul

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 7 - Page 2 Giphy

oh man i wanna see some family interaction with young ben and leia. i really wanna see that onscreen, just give me one moment of that.
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Post by EchoBase on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:59 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:What is that book exactly? I've never heard of it.

LF does seem pretty bent on promoting a specific image for Ben. He's very much advertised as the inevitable doomsday child who will drag himself back up from the depths of hell. That's the story I expect to see based on TFA, and I know Rey has to play a part in it, as the major protagonist. That makes you question what kind of relationship Rey and Kylo are going to forge. It'll be a transformational redemption no matter what, but will it even be possible for these two characters (whose interactions are already so charged and intense) to develop a completely platonic light youth/dark youth dynamic? I wouldn't mind if that was intended to be the case, but that's really not what their scenes in TFA pushed. :/
@FrolickingFizzgig


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Aftermath_Trilogy
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Post by IoJovi on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 10:07 am

@EchoBase wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:How is it that I have not read this book yet? It's been on my list, but I've been putting it off. I must rectify this immediately! bounce
@IoJovi

Do you mean "Aftermath"? Because this one ("Life debt") will be released on July 19. It's the second part of a trilogy.


@EchoBase

Ohhhh I was under the impression this was an excerpt from Aftermath. I didn't realize this was from Life Debt. I'll have to pick this one up too!

Thanks for clarifying!
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 10:17 am

@Krafty wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Woohoo, this is interesting:

http://mashable.com/2016/06/21/star-wars-aftermath-life-debt/#Y_PplUxcHEqU

From Aftermath -Life debt.

"
It’s her child.

This isn’t just a mother’s recognition of the life inside—that, she already knows. She’s already well aware of the bump and tumble of that little person she carries. (And she already knows about the heartburn, and the pre-breakfast nausea, and the post-breakfast nausea, and the post-post-breakfast hunger ...)

This goes beyond all that. This is something separate from her. It isn’t a physical feeling. It is all around her. It suffuses her like the perfume from a jungle of flowers. As such, she is suddenly aware of her child’s mind and spirit: She senses pluck and wit and steel blood and a keen mind and by the blood of Alderaan is this one going to be a fighter!"

Yeah, Kylo is just an one-dimensional, irredeemable villain. That's why he is described this way.


@FrolickingFizzgig: yeeees, it's Dory. So adorable Smile.
@EchoBase

Okay, yeah, if that doesn't make people love him a little bit, they must not have a heart. Little flickers of this Ben can still be seen in Kylo. Clearly this has to go somewhere. Wink
@Krafty

A person must have a heart of ice if that doesn't make their heart ache a little bit, if only for Leia's sake.

THIS IS HER ONLY SON. I feel like buying a megaphone and shouting that from the rooftops.
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