ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 8

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Post by ZioRen on Mon 18 Jul - 13:44

@Rimfaxe96 wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:I don't know about full on rooting for him, but VIII must at least end with a big indication that Kylo is more torn than ever. Introducing feelings for Rey would be an easy way to do that. And they can't just be "I want to POSSESS HER BECAUSE I'M EVIL" feelings either. Something real has to be budding.
@ZioRen

"More torn than ever" has been achieved by Han Solo Special ending (even if a large portion of the GA hasn't registered that).
@Rimfaxe96

I mean stronger than that. As in a "wow, there's major hints that this guy might just backstab Snoke in IX" kind of torn. I'm of a mind that it'll look silly if they have Kylo looking only bad in VIII and lead into him making a surprise major turn in IX. That's too much like Vader.

And to get people started rooting for him, or at least not hating the idea of his redemption, we have to get some view of his better traits. And if there's anything the canon novels are providing, it's the sense that Kylo definitely has good traits that need re-revealing.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 18 Jul - 14:07

@Rimfaxe96 wrote:Thought a little about the recent rumors during my evening run and my sixth-sense-gut-feeling tingled when thinking about Rey's last scene in VIII being in a cell. Kylo can't have a redemption storyline/survive the trilogy if he doesn't improve greatly in VIII; I have the feeling we're going to get an ending which will leave the GA rooting for him.

Of course, my gut feeling might have been influenced by hunger 'cause I haven't eaten yet. I'll see if anything changes after eating my lasagna and tomato salad. Embarassed
@Rimfaxe96

I share those feelings. IMO, the later the "redemption" comes, the more likely we are to get an ending that repeats Vader, and I just don't think that's the route that they're going with Kylo. It's also why I think that we could get a real, physical kiss at the end of VIII.

With the "Rey in a cell" ending in mind, they could even do a nice callback to ESB, and have them kiss right before she's about to be "captured" (assuming that she is captured by the FO, and it's either a double-agent thing, or something that was done without Kylo's approval).

And before people think that I'm too attached to this headcanon, it's just how I'm reading what we've seen so far and what I'm predicting they might do, given that this is a big blockbuster movie/trilogy. I could be completely wrong.
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Post by ZioRen on Mon 18 Jul - 14:14

I still think they could "Zuko" it. Kylo starts coming around, reverts in a major way at the end of VIII, realizes "oh s*** what am I doing???" and then comes around fully in IX. Honestly I'd be happy with anything that isn't 'SURPRISE! I realized the error of my ways in this one moment in the last movie!" or Kylo getting more and more evil and having to be 'put down', which is unforgivably dark for Star Wars and just bad, edgy writing in general.

I agree with something someone else said somewhere on here that the "some people just can't be saved" message isn't ever what I want from Star Wars. It would completely go against its theme, especially when it's a complex, sympathetic character who is the child of iconic heroes.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 18 Jul - 14:31

We know that Johnson loves pathetic villains so I think we're in good hands Wink
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Post by Rimfaxe96 on Mon 18 Jul - 14:40

@ZioRen wrote:I mean stronger than that. As in a "wow, there's major hints that this guy might just backstab Snoke in IX" kind of torn. I'm of a mind that it'll look silly if they have Kylo looking only bad in VIII and lead into him making a surprise major turn in IX. That's too much like Vader.

And to get people started rooting for him, or at least not hating the idea of his redemption, we have to get some view of his better traits. And if there's anything the canon novels are providing, it's the sense that Kylo definitely has good traits that need re-revealing.
@ZioRen

And we might be getting just that. Remember the 6 movies mentioned to have influenced VIII?
This is what IGN wrote to "Three Outlaw Samurai":

Critic Bilge Ebiri saw in the movie a "depiction of the loss of honor through blind loyalty (and its liberating opposite, the regaining of honor by betrayal)".

Star Wars has a long history of taking cues from Samurai movies (A New Hope was partly-influenced by Lucas' love of Kurosawa), and it's easy to see how these themes could tally with the end of The Force Awakens: Will Kylo Ren realise the consequences of following Snoke blindly? Will he seek redemption through betrayal?

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I share those feelings. IMO, the later the "redemption" comes, the more likely we are to get an ending that repeats Vader, and I just don't think that's the route that they're going with Kylo. It's also why I think that we could get a real, physical kiss at the end of VIII.

IMO we'll get verbal expressions of trust/care, it's too soon to light the candles just yet. They'll probably leave the emotional highlight to IX.


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Post by Krafty on Mon 18 Jul - 14:41

@ZioRen wrote:I still think they could "Zuko" it. Kylo starts coming around, reverts in a major way at the end of VIII, realizes "oh s*** what am I doing???" and then comes around fully in IX. Honestly I'd be happy with anything that isn't 'SURPRISE! I realized the error of my ways in this one moment in the last movie!" or Kylo getting more and more evil and having to be 'put down', which is unforgivably dark for Star Wars and just bad, edgy writing in general.

I agree with something someone else said somewhere on here that the "some people just can't be saved" message isn't ever what I want from Star Wars. It would completely go against its theme, especially when it's a complex, sympathetic character who is the child of iconic heroes.
@ZioRen

I've been mulling that over for a while now because it bugs me, but I was never able to fully articulate it. But that is it cheers . It will just be sort of disappointing if he turns in the last few minutes of IX and/or -God forbid- dies (which I doubt, because we need next generation Skywalker legacy babies).
As much of I love the reverse Vader theory, I could do without the last second 180 like in the OT, and instead have it be a noticeable progression with lots of UST Reylo Wink
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Post by Kessel on Mon 18 Jul - 14:47

@ZioRen wrote:

I agree with something someone else said somewhere on here that the "some people just can't be saved" message isn't ever what I want from Star Wars. It would completely go against its theme, especially when it's a complex, sympathetic character who is the child of iconic heroes.
@ZioRen

I agree with this statement so much. It's one of the main reasons I just cannot see Kylo dying irredeemed on the dark side. That horrible message of despair and seeing a character like Kylo (who is conflicted by the light) completely lose himself to the darkness and meet a horrible end is the antithesis of what SW stands for...what would such a depressing storyline even accomplish?

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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Jul - 14:49

Kessel89 wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:

I agree with something someone else said somewhere on here that the "some people just can't be saved" message isn't ever what I want from Star Wars. It would completely go against its theme, especially when it's a complex, sympathetic character who is the child of iconic heroes.
@ZioRen

I agree with this statement so much. It's one of the main reasons I just cannot see Kylo dying irredeemed on the dark side. That horrible message of despair and seeing a character like Kylo (who is conflicted by the light) completely lose himself to the darkness and meet a horrible end is the antithesis of what SW stands for...what would such a depressing storyline even accomplish?

Agreed @ZioRen and @Kessel89. This is why I hated what happened to Jacen Solo in the Legacy of the Force books. It went against every theme SW represents.


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Post by ZioRen on Mon 18 Jul - 14:52

AppleCrumble122 wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:

I agree with something someone else said somewhere on here that the "some people just can't be saved" message isn't ever what I want from Star Wars. It would completely go against its theme, especially when it's a complex, sympathetic character who is the child of iconic heroes.
@ZioRen

I agree with this statement so much. It's one of the main reasons I just cannot see Kylo dying irredeemed on the dark side. That horrible message  of despair and seeing a character like Kylo (who is conflicted by the light) completely lose himself to the darkness and meet a horrible end is the antithesis of what SW stands for...what would such a depressing storyline even accomplish?

Agreed @ZioRen and @Kessel89. This is why I hated what happened to Jacen Solo in the Legacy of the Force books. It went against every theme SW represents.

@AppleCrumble122

Jacen did still have a "he still has good in him" moment at the end, if I remember correctly. But yeah it wasn't enough.

Also, I don't know what a "he can't be saved" story would accomplish other than "Look, look! We did the opposite of the OT! Isn't that some unique, surprising, and just plain swell writing? We're so creative and realistically dark! See how we're different from the OT?"


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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Jul - 14:54

@ZioRen wrote:
AppleCrumble122 wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:

I agree with something someone else said somewhere on here that the "some people just can't be saved" message isn't ever what I want from Star Wars. It would completely go against its theme, especially when it's a complex, sympathetic character who is the child of iconic heroes.
@ZioRen

I agree with this statement so much. It's one of the main reasons I just cannot see Kylo dying irredeemed on the dark side. That horrible message of despair and seeing a character like Kylo (who is conflicted by the light) completely lose himself to the darkness and meet a horrible end is the antithesis of what SW stands for...what would such a depressing storyline even accomplish?

Agreed @ZioRen and @Kessel89. This is why I hated what happened to Jacen Solo in the Legacy of the Force books. It went against every theme SW represents.

@AppleCrumble122

Jacen did still have a "he still has good in him" moment at the end, if I remember correctly. But yeah it wasn't enough.

@ZioRen It certainly wasn't enough. It was just slapped on at the end just before Jaina killed him. There was no conflict or remorse in him whatsoever. It's why I prefer Kylo Ren's character, he's much more interesting. Jacen was interesting in the NJO and to some extent in the Swarm War, but it fell apart in the LOTF imo.


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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 18 Jul - 16:06

@ZioRen wrote:I still think they could "Zuko" it. Kylo starts coming around, reverts in a major way at the end of VIII, realizes "oh s*** what am I doing???" and then comes around fully in IX. Honestly I'd be happy with anything that isn't 'SURPRISE! I realized the error of my ways in this one moment in the last movie!" or Kylo getting more and more evil and having to be 'put down', which is unforgivably dark for Star Wars and just bad, edgy writing in general.

I agree with something someone else said somewhere on here that the "some people just can't be saved" message isn't ever what I want from Star Wars. It would completely go against its theme, especially when it's a complex, sympathetic character who is the child of iconic heroes.
@ZioRen

I could see something like that. I don't expect his redemption to be a straight linear path. At the very least, they'll be showing mixed messages/some ambiguity so that the audience isn't completely sure of his intentions.

But I also think that he can't double-cross Rey too late in the game without killing the possibility of a Reylo endgame. But hey, maybe he turns her over to the FO, and we don't get a Reylo endgame. If he's behind her being captured, I see the more likely scenario being that he somehow communicates back to the FO while things are somewhat iffy that he's got Rey but is stranded and needs the FO to come pick them up.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Mon 18 Jul - 16:22

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 18 Jul - 16:35

@snufkin wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@bela.mesecina - idiomatic expression in English, for when you eat not because you're hungry but because you're sad/upset. Most commonly used for heartbreak/disappointment in romantic relationships. When you say that you're eating your feelings, it's literally feeding your sad emotions with food. So my joke is that he's gained weight because rejected by crush = eating more food. Other English expression for this is "emotional eating."
@snufkin

What s the expression when do you eat a lot due to the stress at your job?
@Darth_Awakened

It's the same, 'eating your feelings.'
@snufkin

I've also used the term "stress eating". They are all the same thing.
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Post by Kyla Ren on Mon 18 Jul - 16:37

@ReyofLightSide

Wow.  That paints a really different picture of what I was expecting to happen on Ahch-to. Sad  If that spoiler is true and if it really does happen in the third act, they're really going to have to speed up the Reylo action in Episode IX if they want them together by the end of the trilogy.  Unless it's like some people here have speculated and Reylo won't happen or will just barely happen by the end of this trilogy and it will be saved for the next trilogy.  I really thought they would wrap it up by the end of Episode IX, though.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Mon 18 Jul - 16:43

@Kyla Ren wrote:
@ReyofLightSide

Wow.  That paints a really different picture of what I was expecting to happen on Ahch-to. Sad  If that spoiler is true and if it really does happen in the third act, they're really going to have to speed up the Reylo action in Episode IX if they want them together by the end of the trilogy.  Unless it's like some people here have speculated and Reylo won't happen or will just barely happen by the end of this trilogy and it will be saved for the next trilogy.  I really thought they would wrap it up by the end of Episode IX, though.
@Kyla Ren

I am not sure what to think. The poster is "confident" it is in the third act. There is no mention of the hut blowing up. Also sounds like Rey does not fall into the water. No mention of a crash landing on the island.


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Post by snufkin on Mon 18 Jul - 16:47

Yet another "just going to get more eeeeeviiilller" scenario? Sounds really boring.


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Post by Kyla Ren on Mon 18 Jul - 16:47

@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:
@ReyofLightSide

Wow.  That paints a really different picture of what I was expecting to happen on Ahch-to. Sad  If that spoiler is true and if it really does happen in the third act, they're really going to have to speed up the Reylo action in Episode IX if they want them together by the end of the trilogy.  Unless it's like some people here have speculated and Reylo won't happen or will just barely happen by the end of this trilogy and it will be saved for the next trilogy.  I really thought they would wrap it up by the end of Episode IX, though.
@Kyla Ren

I am not sure what to think. The poster is "pretty sure" it is in the third act. There is no mention of the hut blowing up. Also sounds like Rey does not fall into the water. No mention of a crash landing on the island.

@ReyofLightSide

I'm not sure what to think, either.  I've never heard of that person or their website.  Is he/she well known in the fandom?
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 18 Jul - 16:48

@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:
@ReyofLightSide

Wow.  That paints a really different picture of what I was expecting to happen on Ahch-to. Sad  If that spoiler is true and if it really does happen in the third act, they're really going to have to speed up the Reylo action in Episode IX if they want them together by the end of the trilogy.  Unless it's like some people here have speculated and Reylo won't happen or will just barely happen by the end of this trilogy and it will be saved for the next trilogy.  I really thought they would wrap it up by the end of Episode IX, though.
@Kyla Ren

I am not sure what to think. The poster is "pretty sure" it is in the third act. There is no mention of the hut blowing up. Also sounds like Rey does not fall into the water. No mention of a crash landing on the island.

@ReyofLightSide

Also, if Luke gets the upper hand in the 3rd act, how does Rey end up in the "holding cell" at the end of the movie which that other poster was talking about?  I think @vaderito knows the poster, and I think he is somewhat reliable.

I mean Rian just gave us six movies about redemption and working with enemies.  If anything, this spoiler is either wrong -or- Kylo is working with Luke somehow and salad bowl guy really does get taken out.  This Kylo as Kaiser Sozi thing seems really out of place with those movies and the new canon books.

P.S. Also, how many times are they going to repeat the same visual. First a dream, then real ... and maybe that also looks like Rey's forceback. People would get annoyed.
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Post by Kyla Ren on Mon 18 Jul - 16:50

@snufkin wrote:Ugh, so a "just going to get more eeeeeviiilller" scenario? If that's the case, forgot about it because that sounds really boring.
@snufkin

It just really seems to go against what they were setting up in Episode VIII.  I might be able to see something like that happening a little more if they said it happened in Act One, although even then I wouldn't be thrilled.  But in Act Three?  I figured Kylo would already be on his way to redemption by Act Three.  At least somewhat, anyway.
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Post by Rimfaxe96 on Mon 18 Jul - 16:50

@ReyofLightSide

Intriguing, and overall what I expected, although I'm not sure if I'll believe it. What about that poster's accuracy in the past, or is that his/her first spoiler reveal?

Especially this part

As for the knights, I strongly believe some of the knights survive Luke’s attack because I’m told Kylo himself kills the remaining members.

raises some questions.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Mon 18 Jul - 16:51

@Kyla Ren wrote:
@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:
@ReyofLightSide

Wow.  That paints a really different picture of what I was expecting to happen on Ahch-to. Sad  If that spoiler is true and if it really does happen in the third act, they're really going to have to speed up the Reylo action in Episode IX if they want them together by the end of the trilogy.  Unless it's like some people here have speculated and Reylo won't happen or will just barely happen by the end of this trilogy and it will be saved for the next trilogy.  I really thought they would wrap it up by the end of Episode IX, though.
@Kyla Ren

I am not sure what to think. The poster is "pretty sure" it is in the third act. There is no mention of the hut blowing up. Also sounds like Rey does not fall into the water. No mention of a crash landing on the island.

@ReyofLightSide

I'm not sure what to think, either.  I've never heard of that person or their website.  Is he/she well known in the fandom?
@Kyla Ren

No one seems to know. There are some reddit threads on it. Some people think he/she sounds credible, some don't. Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/4tgnuy/anyone_paid_attention_to_this_site_and_is_it/

Kylo killing the rest of the KOR himself? To save Rey, maybe? I agree, the rest sounds just meh.


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Post by panki on Mon 18 Jul - 16:53

I get the impression this information has been pieced together based on an eye witness account....how would they know if this scene was in the third act or earlier? It is not like scripts are easily accessible and I doubt the editing has begun as yet either..... Suspect

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Post by Irina de France on Mon 18 Jul - 16:54

This isn't the first time I'm seeing an alleged spoiler where it's said that Kylo and Rey only see each other in act 3 of the movie. But seriously, if Rey is the heroine of this trilogy, what on Earth does she do in the entire film? Piggy-back Luke around?
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Post by Rimfaxe96 on Mon 18 Jul - 16:57

@panki wrote:I get the impression this information has been pieced together based on an eye witness account....how would they know if this scene was in the third act or earlier? It is not like scripts are easily accessible and I doubt the editing has begun as yet either..... Suspect
@panki

The only people who can know for sure are the people currently piecing the movie together. Not even TFA was filmed 'in perfect order', and John Boyega also said that they were working on a ridiculously high number of different sets (because Lucasfilms is just nerdy enough to use as little CGI as possible). This is what really makes me doubt its credibility. And I'm also not buying Kylo killing his own squad tbh.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Mon 18 Jul - 16:59

@Irina de France wrote:This isn't the first time I'm seeing an alleged spoiler where it's said that Kylo and Rey only see each other in act 3 of the movie. But seriously, if Rey is the heroine of this trilogy, what on Earth does she do in the entire film? Piggy-back Luke around?
@Irina de France

Laughing

I find it hard to believe we will see nothing of/ very little of Kylo until the third act.
This blog is basically just debunking spoilers for now- which, really, even I could do. I could just throw some stuff out there. Like, "Rey falls off of the cliff. This is true- BUT! Kylo jumps in to save her when she falls into the water. This was filmed at Pinewood."

Time will tell and people will probably keep an eye on this blog. ETA: They are asking the blog owner to share some proof with the reddit mod.
ReyofLightSide
ReyofLightSide
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1100
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Date d'inscription : 2016-03-30
Localisation : US

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