ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 8

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 5:55 pm

I can see Luke dying and I can see him not dying. It all depends on the story they tell. Either way Luke's potential death is in no way evidence for Reywalker.

@Lily Snape
Unpopular opinion, but I despised Korra. I gave it a chance, but IMO it is a perfect example of how not to write a sequel. They thought they could get away with a bare concept and no story, but it's painfully obvious to me that they had no direction from the start, just a jumble of ideas that don't mesh well together and resulted in a choppy, "Big Bad of the season" series. In the original Avatar the entire narrative was spelled out in a matter of 8 episodes: stop the comet, save the world; dethrone the Fire Lord, bring peace back to the land; dark youth/light youth dynamic between the Avatar and the fallen prince. Korra was all over the place, and perhaps worse, the amount of fan pandering, fan service and social justice worshipping makes me feel sick to this day.
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Post by IoJovi on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 5:55 pm

@Gemini wrote:Lol... The jargon we have come up with here

Just trying to gather the evidence for my theory
@Gemini

Yes. Sometimes I feel like any newbie coming in here might need a translator. And then there's Beer-can chicken... Laughing
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Post by Kyla Ren on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 5:56 pm

@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

I'm not sure, but didn't he say that the whole Knights of Ren scene in the Force vision was a flashback to a past incident and not the future?  If that's the case then unless he was saving Rey when she was much younger, which I kind of doubt, then no, he probably wasn't saving her.
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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 5:57 pm

Force bond, salad bowl, greylo, Space bear,
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Post by Guest on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 5:58 pm

@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

He didn't say that exactly. He said Rey's vision was stylised and that Kylo and the Knights of Ren had been involved in village slaughters. I don't recall him ever saying anything that specific about Salad Bowl Guy in her vision.

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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 5:58 pm

@Kyla Ren wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

I'm not sure, but didn't he say that the whole Knights of Ren scene in the Force vision was a flashback to a past incident and not the future?  If that's the case then unless he was saving Rey when she was much younger, which I kind of doubt, then no, he probably wasn't saving her.
@Kyla Ren

The novel suggests the stabbing and wrenching of a saber from the ground is the day time and then when he's holding that saber day becomes night and he walks towards Rey

If Pablo said that he may not be lying, part of it is the past I think

Not removing that saber from the trailer and then removing it in the film. Damn Disney lol


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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 5:59 pm

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

He didn't say that exactly. He said Rey's vision was stylised and that Kylo and the Knights of Ren had been involved in village slaughters. I don't recall him ever saying anything that specific about Salad Bowl Guy in her vision.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Thank you

Vaguely remember someone asking but it's really hard to remember specifics, I'm sure we have it somewhere In here lol
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:00 pm

@teltaru wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@teltaru
I'm really skeptical of this. There's no way they don't have this stuff planned already, at least vaguely. Pablo has said a hundred times that they're ten years ahead in storytelling, and every new book that comes out just proves more and more how well prepared they are. They would have decided something like this ages ago, especially if Rian is doing the story treatment for IX. The only thing I've really heard is that:

> Rey's origin story will likely be handled in IX.
> Luke and Leia will both be present in IX.
> Daisy wishes Rian would tell her more about Rey's story in IX, but he's (or was, as of a few months ago) keeping it to himself.
@FrolickingFizzgig

So am I, but mostly because this kind of info would suggest his source is pretty high up. I'm not vouching for him, but since he was being discussed, I thought I would contribute. He reported on Adam and Daisy filming together in Ireland way before everyone else, even though he is neither a gigantic Kylo fan, nor a shipper. Because most of us suspected that it would happen, but I recall the many naysayers after Bothan Spy had come up with his 'leak', claiming Adam would appear on Ahch-To. Of course, after Adam actually appeared in Ireland, history revised itself and it suddenly became "obvious since the beginning" for everyone... Anyways... Smile It could simply mean our guy has a brain, so it's not nearly enough to make him credible, but at least he didn't say Rey was the lovechild of Palpatine and Plagueis.

I am aware that they have the stories planned out for years to come, but I think this mostly covers plot points that they want to execute, rather than complete scenes. So if they know that, for example, Luke would die at the end of IX, they would still need to discuss how it would be depicted on screen, and as far as I know, the script has not been finished yet.
@teltaru

If I'm reading the "leak" correctly, it sounds like the source simply told him about an idea that was kicked around in a script/story meeting. That doesn't mean that the leak itself is incorrect, but I do think it sounds like maybe the poster was possibly told an idea that was discarded.

It's interesting from a story development/evolution standpoint, but doesn't necessarily give away any plot points other than at one point they were possibly looking at a trilogy end with a redeemed Kylo and a dying Luke.


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Post by IoJovi on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:02 pm

@Gemini wrote:Force bond, salad bowl, greylo, Space bear,
@Gemini

Reywalker, Ruke (heavens bless that impeccable ship!) Beer-can chicken, the Finnreys (sounds like a school girl band), Sney... This really should be considered a second language...

What is greylo?  I don't know that one... Laughing

Back on topic, I don't see Luke being the one to take out Snoke. Mark Hamill himself has said Luke is now a supporting character. I don't see a supporting character being the one to take out the Big Bad...
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Post by Guest on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:02 pm

@Gemini wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

He didn't say that exactly. He said Rey's vision was stylised and that Kylo and the Knights of Ren had been involved in village slaughters. I don't recall him ever saying anything that specific about Salad Bowl Guy in her vision.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Thank you

Vaguely remember someone asking but it's really hard to remember specifics, I'm sure we have it somewhere In here lol
@Gemini

I exchanged some tweets with Pablo about Rey's vision. He neither confirmed or denied that Salad Bowl incident was future. He obfuscated, and answered something I didn't really ask.

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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:04 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Force bond, salad bowl, greylo, Space bear,
@Gemini

Reywalker, Ruke (heavens bless that impeccable ship!) Beer-can chicken, the Finnreys (sounds like a school girl band), Sney... This really should be considered a second language...

What is greylo?  I don't know that one... Laughing

Back on topic, I don't see Luke being the one to take out Snoke. Mark Hamill himself has said Luke is now a supporting character. I don't see a supporting character being the one to take out the Big Bad...
@IoJovi

Reylo resolving the grey together (poem) = Greylo lol
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Post by Kyla Ren on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:09 pm

@Gemini wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

I'm not sure, but didn't he say that the whole Knights of Ren scene in the Force vision was a flashback to a past incident and not the future?  If that's the case then unless he was saving Rey when she was much younger, which I kind of doubt, then no, he probably wasn't saving her.
@Kyla Ren

The novel suggests the stabbing and wrenching of a saber from the ground is the day time and then when he's holding that saber day becomes night and he walks towards Rey

If Pablo said that he may not be lying, part of it is the past I think

Not removing that saber from the trailer and then removing it in the film. Damn Disney lol
@Gemini

I can't remember exactly what he said or if I even saw the original tweet or just read what someone else said that he tweeted.  I find it hard to keep all the tweets and information straight.  I used to think that part of the Force vision with Salad Bowl was probably a scene from the future where Kylo saved Rey.  I still hope that turns out to be the case, but I don't know.

And yeah, there were things in the teasers and trailers that they should have left in the movie, like Kylo igniting his lightsaber in the woods. Smile
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Post by teltaru on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:13 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@teltaru

If I'm reading the "leak" correctly, it sounds like the source simply told him about an idea that was kicked around in a script/story meeting. That doesn't mean that the leak itself is incorrect, but I do think it sounds like maybe the poster was possibly told an idea that was discarded.

It's interesting from a story development/evolution standpoint, but doesn't necessarily give away any plot points other than at one point they were possibly looking at a trilogy end with a redeemed Kylo and a dying Luke.


@ISeeAnIsland

I think that at this point, they know exactly where the story is going and what the conclusion will be.

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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:14 pm

Removing that saber, everything falls into place if you read the novel and then look at the trailer then see what happens when he's got that saber in the movie


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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:14 pm

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

He didn't say that exactly. He said Rey's vision was stylised and that Kylo and the Knights of Ren had been involved in village slaughters. I don't recall him ever saying anything that specific about Salad Bowl Guy in her vision.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Thank you

Vaguely remember someone asking but it's really hard to remember specifics, I'm sure we have it somewhere In here lol
@Gemini

I exchanged some tweets with Pablo about Rey's vision. He neither confirmed or denied that Salad Bowl incident was future. He obfuscated, and answered something I didn't really ask.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I remember that. Pablo gave his "the script says that he (Salad Bowl) is a clan leader" response and then went on to say that the KoR raided villages because that's the sort of thing they did or something like that. But he never says that's what they're actually doing there. Nor has he ever come right out and said "Salad Bowl is a clan leader", if I recall. It's always been "the script says..."

The careful word choice is a big reason why I don't take Pablo's tweets at face value on the Salad Bowl Incident.
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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:15 pm

I saw Pablo say that ren is being a villain there in that moment, I remember it. But I ignored it because it destroyed my headcanon at the time lol

This came out during one of the gates. The KOR attacking Rey gate
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Post by panki on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:23 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

He didn't say that exactly. He said Rey's vision was stylised and that Kylo and the Knights of Ren had been involved in village slaughters. I don't recall him ever saying anything that specific about Salad Bowl Guy in her vision.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Thank you

Vaguely remember someone asking but it's really hard to remember specifics, I'm sure we have it somewhere In here lol
@Gemini

I exchanged some tweets with Pablo about Rey's vision. He neither confirmed or denied that Salad Bowl incident was future. He obfuscated, and answered something I didn't really ask.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I remember that. Pablo gave his "the script says that he (Salad Bowl) is a clan leader" response and then went on to say that the KoR raided villages because that's the sort of thing they did or something like that. But he never says that's what they're actually doing there. Nor has he ever come right out and said "Salad Bowl is a clan leader", if I recall. It's always been "the script says..."

The careful word choice is a big reason why I don't take Pablo's tweets at face value on the Salad Bowl Incident.
@ISeeAnIsland

You are right about the tweet. Smile

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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:31 pm

That's not the tweet I saw^^^ Pablo tweeted the villain comment when that gate was happening about kylo going to kill Rey

But that above tweet suggests the stabbing is the past or the future which is not connected to the Ach to fight
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Post by panki on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:35 pm

I don't think there is any suggestion of whether salad bowl guy is stabbed in the past or the future.. He could even be a clan/  tribal leader present on Ahch-To (whether a resident or someone who landed up there).

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:36 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Am I right in remembering that Pablo pretty much said that ren is not saving Rey when he stabs salad bowl? He said it was just ren showing his villainy?
@Gemini

He didn't say that exactly. He said Rey's vision was stylised and that Kylo and the Knights of Ren had been involved in village slaughters. I don't recall him ever saying anything that specific about Salad Bowl Guy in her vision.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Thank you

Vaguely remember someone asking but it's really hard to remember specifics, I'm sure we have it somewhere In here lol
@Gemini

I exchanged some tweets with Pablo about Rey's vision. He neither confirmed or denied that Salad Bowl incident was future. He obfuscated, and answered something I didn't really ask.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I remember that. Pablo gave his "the script says that he (Salad Bowl) is a clan leader" response and then went on to say that the KoR raided villages because that's the sort of thing they did or something like that. But he never says that's what they're actually doing there. Nor has he ever come right out and said "Salad Bowl is a clan leader", if I recall. It's always been "the script says..."

The careful word choice is a big reason why I don't take Pablo's tweets at face value on the Salad Bowl Incident.
@ISeeAnIsland
He's only allowed to talk about what the VII script says. If it is to have any significance in VIII, then responding about it would be treading into actual spoilers, so he sticks to the vague VII interpretation. So as of right now it's Kylo stabbing a Clan Leader. That's what Pablo is going to respond. I don't think it's a KoR, personally. I never did. The clothes don't match.

I don't know if the saber in the trailer is going to be of significance at all. IMO there's a reason it was cut.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:37 pm

@Gemini wrote:That's not the tweet I saw^^^ Pablo tweeted the villain comment when that gate was happening about kylo going to kill Rey

But that above tweet suggests the stabbing is the past or the future which is not connected to the Ach to fight
@Gemini

I am asking this in all seriousness and not sarcastically:

If the Salad Bowl stabbing is in the past, then what the heck is the Ahch-To tree doing in the background for that part of the vision???
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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:39 pm

@panki wrote:I don't think there is any suggestion of whether salad bowl guy is stabbed in the past or the future.. He could even be a clan/  tribal leader present on Ahch-To (whether a resident or someone who landed up there).

I agree it could be that

But in the novel he does it in the day time if I remember? And then it suddenly turns to night after he wrenches an unidentified saber out of the ground and then suddenly the 7 appear and he walks towards Rey
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Post by Gemini on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:41 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Gemini wrote:That's not the tweet I saw^^^ Pablo tweeted the villain comment when that gate was happening about kylo going to kill Rey

But that above tweet suggests the stabbing is the past or the future which  is not connected to the Ach to fight
@Gemini

I am asking this in all seriousness and not sarcastically:

If the Salad Bowl stabbing is in the past, then what the heck is the Ahch-To tree doing in the background for that part of the vision???
@ISeeAnIsland

It's a vision it's not accurate to reality? As was said

In think ren and Rey are both transported to this future event when they get a vision through a lightsaber

Oh god it's all making sense!

Ren sees rey picking up this saber but all Rey sees is him As a boy (in the novel)

Ren sees Rey (watching him wrench the saber) but he sees her as a girl

It's not making sense how I'm writing it I'll gather my thoughts better later lol


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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:50 pm

@Gemini wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Gemini wrote:That's not the tweet I saw^^^ Pablo tweeted the villain comment when that gate was happening about kylo going to kill Rey

But that above tweet suggests the stabbing is the past or the future which  is not connected to the Ach to fight
@Gemini

I am asking this in all seriousness and not sarcastically:

If the Salad Bowl stabbing is in the past, then what the heck is the Ahch-To tree doing in the background for that part of the vision???
@ISeeAnIsland

It's a vision it's not accurate to reality? As was said

In think ren and Rey are both transported to this future event when they get a vision through a lightsaber

Oh god it's all making sense!

Ren sees rey picking up this saber but all Rey sees is him As a boy (in the novel)

Ren sees Rey (watching him wrench the saber) but as a girl
@Gemini

But why put the tree visible in the background then? Why not just have a blank/foggy background if the tree isn't actually there?
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Post by Kessel on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 6:53 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Gemini wrote:That's not the tweet I saw^^^ Pablo tweeted the villain comment when that gate was happening about kylo going to kill Rey

But that above tweet suggests the stabbing is the past or the future which  is not connected to the Ach to fight
@Gemini

I am asking this in all seriousness and not sarcastically:

If the Salad Bowl stabbing is in the past, then what the heck is the Ahch-To tree doing in the background for that part of the vision???
@ISeeAnIsland

Yeah I know. If that scene is definitely the past, it's likely not Ahch-to (and not the Ahch-to tree) because Kylo has probably never been there. If he had, he'd know its significance as the site of the first Jedi temple (and that Luke was possibly there).  

If it's not the Ahch-to tree, perhaps it's Kylo's ship (with the tall, sharp wings angled up) or a (sith) temple? It definitely looks like it's  something we are supposed to notice, or else it wouldn't have been illuminated when the lightening struck.

To me it makes more sense if it is the future, but we'll see.


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