Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 2:33 am

Mini scare gate is over.

Thank you @AppleCrumble122

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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 2:36 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:FWIW, I think that there are other possible explanations for Kylo appearing to confidently lead the FO on Crait other than him being Eviler and Eviler.
@ISeeAnIsland

Definitely.
I was thinking about it and came to conclusion that there's no way for Kylo to become Eviler and Eviler.
Strictly speaking in the narrative term: What would be point of it?
Super dark Kylo vs. Super light Rey for IX? And though everybody and their mother are speaking about the nuance and ambiguity all along.

I can get that Kylo would want to show Snoke he's worthy of being a super villain (Kylo's presented as such), but I'am dead sure he would fail.
Because, if he didn't fall full dark after he killed Han, there's no narrative logic he would fall out of nothing in the middle of the TLJ.

Just my two cents.
@Darth_Awakened

Right. And why on earth would the marketing be hammering home how torn and lost this character is (the only child of beloved legacy characters), only to pull the rug out from the audience to have him go Full Evil by the end of TLJ?

It just wouldn't make any sense...and it would render Han's sacrifice as meaningless.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yes to both of you! We always have to go back to Adam Driver's interview where he talked about TLJ explaining things in TFA *and* that TLJ would show Kylo's "humanity".  Like I think @Night Huntress said somewhere, things like blowing up his mother are not exactly glowing signs of humanity.

But things like going back to the FO so Rey can escape, going back to the FO undercover and/or as a spy, offering to let Snoke do whatever to him to save Rey (which could touch on @FrolickingFizzgig's Bodysnatcher/Force-Life-sucking theory) would show humanity.  They would also show that he is the anti-Anakin.  Anakin never considered sacrificing himself to save Padme when he started having dreams in ROTS.  I mean maybe it wasn't possible, but if he was looking for a way to stop death, it's not so crazy to think that there would be a way to give your life force to your wife and child.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 2:37 am

AppleCrumble122 wrote:That blurry image of Kylo kneeling is from the Topps card. And yes, he has his scar on it. That one is just too blurry to see it, it's more clear in this image.

@AppleCrumble122

You can see some of the quilting on this outfit there too! Thank you @AppleCrumble122! :-)
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 3:00 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:....but I have rather a bad feeling about this.
@reylo1992

What? Like an evil clone of Kylo is wandering around leading the troops on Crait? Lolilol Sapristi
@Night Huntress

Nope. I don't believe in a clone scenario. My perception is influenced by my headcanon, which is the following: Snoke has been watching over Ben from the whomb with the ultimate goal to create the Empire that Vader didn't get the chance to create and ultimately becoming the Emperor that Vader planed to be (before he ended up like a piece of burnt flesh) because this is actually what Vader had started in ROTS: an Empire. I don't know to what extent this perception of where the story is headed is right but it is based on the following arguments:

1) That Snoke has a huge agenda that shouldn't underestimated
==> In an interview, Andy Serkis confirmed that Snoke has a "huge agenda" but that he is limited by his own vulnerability

2) That Snoke has been targeting Ben from the whomb because he is an important piece of his agenda b
==> In his last interview, Andy Serkis was asked about what Snoke want from Kylo Ren and answered "all I can tell is that you'reonto something".

3) That Snoke intends to make of Kylo a masterpiece made of both the dark side and the light based on what their dialogue in the TFA novel
==> If Snoke has been working with Ben for 30 years to create a masterpiece, I don't  see of what use it is if he throw him away or simply crush his own great project. On the other hand, I don't see him either keeping Kylo by his side like a puppet because he most certainly knows that Kylo could crush like Anakin planed to crush Sidious. And Snoke confirms that he saw the Empire rise and fall. So he know how Sidious and Vader created the Empire and he also knows which failures led to the fall of the Empire. That's why, I don't think that Snoke would keep Kylo by his side but he definitely needs him for his plan.

4) Snoke is frustrated by his physical damages that limit his huge agenda
==> Andy Serkis alway insist on Snoke's vulnerability and the frustration that derived from it. It was also pointed out that Snoke used to be rather handsome in his youth. So we have a villain who apprently used to be young, handsome and powerful whose huge agenda is limited by these facts. IMO, these information can't be a pure coincidence. If Snoke really has this huge agenda, it requires that he first recovers a good physical state.

5) Snoke is the real (young) Vader fanboy
==> I have no solid argument because it is a guts feeling. I have the impression that Snoke is actually the one who admires Vader (Vader mask, design of the Knights of Ren, Kylo's costume,...). I personally don't see Snoke becoming a Emperor Sidious Number Two with the only difference that he wouldn't make the mistake. So my feeling is that he rather intends to create the Empire that young Vader intended to create, that is to say with a young, handsome, fearsome and powerful Emperor ruling the galaxy. And who would be a better candidate than Vader's spawn himself who indeed has a raw power ?  Just pay attention to some of Kylo's line. He has been brainwashed by Snoke for years so maybe some of his lines come from Snoke himself. When Kylo says "I will finish what you started and no one will stand  in our way", what is he referring to? The only thing that Vader ever started was an Empire that he intended to rule by overthrowing Sidious. And who stand in his way ? a Kenobi.

6) That Snoke doesn't show up near Crait just for the fun to kick the Resistance's a**
==> Rian said that Crait would play a decisive role in the movie. Providing that we are right about the timeline - that Supremacy gets destroyed first - where will Snoke go after the destruction of his ship. The guyhas a huge agenda and certainly doesn't take the risk to be in the middle of the battle if there is no major stake behind it. Therefore, I can't imagine that he doesn't find a way to show up on Crait and acquire there what he wants

7) That according to the Poe comic, Lor San Tekka acquired a relic made of the dark side and the light side
==> I don't know what will be the importance of this relic in the ST but it implies that relics play an important role. And Snoke chose Kylo precisely for what he is made of: the dark side - and the light.

Cool That Kylo - wearing with the f****ing Vader cape - unexpectedly leads the FO firetroops on Crait with bug Vader style


==> I don't think that this is a coincidence that this shot has been bothering us since the trailer came out. But Kylo is definitely paralleling young Vader there and not a random parallel: Vader leading the troops to the Jedi temple represented the very first steps of the Empire he and Sidious intended to build. Plus, we can't be sure that the two shots are reated but he seems to wear his cape there. We also see his scar but he definitely has no plaster anymore.  

So if I would be at Snoke's place, I would use Vader's spawn to regain my own youth, beauty and power back in order to finish what Vader had started:(re)create an Empire in which would be ruled by a young, handsome and fearsome leader who would be all powerful thanks to a relic (made of the dark side and the light like the one in the Poe Comics) acquired during the battle on Crait. So I don't think it is impossible that Snoke and Kylo become one single character in the end, explaining why Kylo is leading the FO firetroops on Crait with such big Vader style. But it's only me and my headcanon. Maybe there is overanalysis and the marketing means nothing in this sense. Still, I wouldn't rule out this possibility. Actually, it is not the absence or not of the scar that is the most important IMO. Maybe that the pic where he hasn't is just a lucky coincidence. Still until I see the film, I think that the pic of Kylo on Crait will make me wonder about his trajectory But I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Snoke wants to get youth, beauty and power by using Kylo and gaining his raw power. Thus, Kylo becomes indeed more evil but it doesn't rule out redemption because he is actually under Snoke's influence.

Plus, who says that Rey wouldn't manage to save him earlier than we think? Maybe he is under Snoke's influence on Crait, she finds a way to make him come to his senses again and he offers his hand with sad-puppy eyes as everything burns around them.

I don't know what can make the most sense about Kylo's trajectory. Neither evil Kylo nor Resistance Kylo seems to represent an unexpected fate IMO. So  I try to imagine something in between that would be unexpected and shocking both for the GA and for Reylos, that is to say something that wouldn't prevent Reylo from happening in the end but would create uncertainly in the next episode by bringing the greatest emotional conflict possible for the heroine: saving the galaxy by destroying Snoke (and taking the risk to destroy her love interest in the process) or let Snoke rule the galaxy by terror (and let the Skywalker's legacy be remembered as a bloody legacy forever).  That's the greatest potential dilemma that I see for Rey because she would have to chose between her duty and her personal interests, not because she is in love with the monster like Padme but because she would fall for a man who is the victim of the monster.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 5:00 am

@reylo1992 wrote:

Nope. I don't believe in a clone scenario.

I was actually joking about that  Wink

@reylo1992 wrote:
1) That Snoke has a huge agenda that shouldn't underestimated
==> In an interview, Andy Serkis confirmed that Snoke has a "huge agenda" but that he is limited by his own vulnerability

2) That Snoke has been targeting Ben from the whomb because he is an important piece of his agenda b
==> In his last interview, Andy Serkis was asked about what Snoke want from Kylo Ren and answered "all I can tell is that you'reonto something".

3) That Snoke intends to make of Kylo a masterpiece made of both the dark side and the light based on what their dialogue in the TFA novel
==> If Snoke has been working with Ben for 30 years to create a masterpiece, I don't  see of what use it is if he throw him away or simply crush his own great project. On the other hand, I don't see him either keeping Kylo by his side like a puppet because he most certainly knows that Kylo could crush like Anakin planed to crush Sidious. And Snoke confirms that he saw the Empire rise and fall. So he know how Sidious and Vader created the Empire and he also knows which failures led to the fall of the Empire. That's why, I don't think that Snoke would keep Kylo by his side but he definitely needs him for his plan.

4) Snoke is frustrated by his physical damages that limit his huge agenda
==> Andy Serkis alway insist on Snoke's vulnerability and the frustration that derived from it. It was also pointed out that Snoke used to be rather handsome in his youth. So we have a villain who apprently used to be young, handsome and powerful whose huge agenda is limited by these facts. IMO, these information can't be a pure coincidence. If Snoke really has this huge agenda, it requires that he first recovers a good physical state.

5) Snoke is the real (young) Vader fanboy
==> I have no solid argument because it is a guts feeling. I have the impression that Snoke is actually the one who admires Vader (Vader mask, design of the Knights of Ren, Kylo's costume,...). I personally don't see Snoke becoming a Emperor Sidious Number Two with the only difference that he wouldn't make the mistake. So my feeling is that he rather intends to create the Empire that young Vader intended to create, that is to say with a young, handsome, fearsome and powerful Emperor ruling the galaxy. And who would be a better candidate than Vader's spawn himself who indeed has a raw power ?  Just pay attention to some of Kylo's line. He has been brainwashed by Snoke for years so maybe some of his lines come from Snoke himself. When Kylo says "I will finish what you started and no one will stand  in our way", what is he referring to? The only thing that Vader ever started was an Empire that he intended to rule by overthrowing Sidious. And who stand in his way ? a Kenobi.

6) That Snoke doesn't show up near Crait just for the fun to kick the Resistance's a**
==> Rian said that Crait would play a decisive role in the movie. Providing that we are right about the timeline - that Supremacy gets destroyed first - where will Snoke go after the destruction of his ship. The guyhas a huge agenda and certainly doesn't take the risk to be in the middle of the battle if there is no major stake behind it. Therefore, I can't imagine that he doesn't find a way to show up on Crait and acquire there what he wants

7) That according to the Poe comic, Lor San Tekka acquired a relic made of the dark side and the light side
==> I don't know what will be the importance of this relic in the ST but it implies that relics play an important role. And Snoke chose Kylo precisely for what he is made of: the dark side - and the light.

Cool That Kylo - wearing with the f****ing Vader cape - unexpectedly leads the FO firetroops on Crait with bug Vader style


==> I don't think that this is a coincidence that this shot has been bothering us since the trailer came out. But Kylo is definitely paralleling young Vader there and not a random parallel: Vader leading the troops to the Jedi temple represented the very first steps of the Empire he and Sidious intended to build. Plus, we can't be sure that the two shots are reated but he seems to wear his cape there. We also see his scar but he definitely has no plaster anymore.  

So if I would be at Snoke's place, I would use Vader's spawn to regain my own youth, beauty and power back in order to finish what Vader had started:(re)create an Empire in which would be ruled by a young, handsome and fearsome leader who would be all powerful thanks to a relic (made of the dark side and the light like the one in the Poe Comics) acquired during the battle on Crait. So I don't think it is impossible that Snoke and Kylo become one single character in the end, explaining why Kylo is leading the FO firetroops on Crait with such big Vader style. But it's only me and my headcanon. Maybe there is overanalysis and the marketing means nothing in this sense. Still, I wouldn't rule out this possibility. Actually, it is not the absence or not of the scar that is the most important IMO. Maybe that the pic where he hasn't is just a lucky coincidence. Still until I see the film, I think that the pic of Kylo on Crait will make me wonder about his trajectory But I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Snoke wants to get youth, beauty and power by using Kylo and gaining his raw power. Thus, Kylo becomes indeed more evil but it doesn't rule out redemption because he is actually under Snoke's influence.

Plus, who says that Rey wouldn't manage to save him earlier than we think? Maybe he is under Snoke's influence on Crait, she finds a way to make him come to his senses again and he offers his hand with sad-puppy eyes as everything burns around them.

I don't know what can make the most sense about Kylo's trajectory. Neither evil Kylo nor Resistance Kylo seems to represent an unexpected fate IMO. So  I try to imagine something in between that would be unexpected and shocking both for the GA and for Reylos, that is to say something that wouldn't prevent Reylo from happening in the end but would create uncertainly in the next episode by bringing the greatest emotional conflict possible for the heroine: saving the galaxy by destroying Snoke (and taking the risk to destroy her love interest in the process) or let Snoke rule the galaxy by terror (and let the Skywalker's legacy be remembered as a bloody legacy forever).  That's the greatest potential dilemma that I see for Rey because she would have to chose between her duty and her personal interests, not because she is in love with the monster like Padme but because she would fall for a man who is the victim of the monster.
@reylo1992

Hm, I don't know... maybe you're right and it's just that I dislike the idea of the "body-snatch scenario" so much.  L-puke

How should that go exactly? Snoke will become Kylo/Ben and where did Kylo's personality go? Two beings battling over Kylos body in his head?
Or do their personalities fuse . And how the hell do you "unmake" such a big incident? If this is what's going to happen you can kiss Reylo goodbye as well. Because they will have to concentrate on this big problem that Snoke has taken Kylos body in IX

Anyway- it's a possibility and IF they going for this I just hope it's what Snoke is planning but won't succeed.

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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 5:52 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:

Nope. I don't believe in a clone scenario.

I was actually joking about that  Wink

@reylo1992 wrote:
1) That Snoke has a huge agenda that shouldn't underestimated
==> In an interview, Andy Serkis confirmed that Snoke has a "huge agenda" but that he is limited by his own vulnerability

2) That Snoke has been targeting Ben from the whomb because he is an important piece of his agenda b
==> In his last interview, Andy Serkis was asked about what Snoke want from Kylo Ren and answered "all I can tell is that you'reonto something".

3) That Snoke intends to make of Kylo a masterpiece made of both the dark side and the light based on what their dialogue in the TFA novel
==> If Snoke has been working with Ben for 30 years to create a masterpiece, I don't  see of what use it is if he throw him away or simply crush his own great project. On the other hand, I don't see him either keeping Kylo by his side like a puppet because he most certainly knows that Kylo could crush like Anakin planed to crush Sidious. And Snoke confirms that he saw the Empire rise and fall. So he know how Sidious and Vader created the Empire and he also knows which failures led to the fall of the Empire. That's why, I don't think that Snoke would keep Kylo by his side but he definitely needs him for his plan.

4) Snoke is frustrated by his physical damages that limit his huge agenda
==> Andy Serkis alway insist on Snoke's vulnerability and the frustration that derived from it. It was also pointed out that Snoke used to be rather handsome in his youth. So we have a villain who apprently used to be young, handsome and powerful whose huge agenda is limited by these facts. IMO, these information can't be a pure coincidence. If Snoke really has this huge agenda, it requires that he first recovers a good physical state.

5) Snoke is the real (young) Vader fanboy
==> I have no solid argument because it is a guts feeling. I have the impression that Snoke is actually the one who admires Vader (Vader mask, design of the Knights of Ren, Kylo's costume,...). I personally don't see Snoke becoming a Emperor Sidious Number Two with the only difference that he wouldn't make the mistake. So my feeling is that he rather intends to create the Empire that young Vader intended to create, that is to say with a young, handsome, fearsome and powerful Emperor ruling the galaxy. And who would be a better candidate than Vader's spawn himself who indeed has a raw power ?  Just pay attention to some of Kylo's line. He has been brainwashed by Snoke for years so maybe some of his lines come from Snoke himself. When Kylo says "I will finish what you started and no one will stand  in our way", what is he referring to? The only thing that Vader ever started was an Empire that he intended to rule by overthrowing Sidious. And who stand in his way ? a Kenobi.

6) That Snoke doesn't show up near Crait just for the fun to kick the Resistance's a**
==> Rian said that Crait would play a decisive role in the movie. Providing that we are right about the timeline - that Supremacy gets destroyed first - where will Snoke go after the destruction of his ship. The guyhas a huge agenda and certainly doesn't take the risk to be in the middle of the battle if there is no major stake behind it. Therefore, I can't imagine that he doesn't find a way to show up on Crait and acquire there what he wants

7) That according to the Poe comic, Lor San Tekka acquired a relic made of the dark side and the light side
==> I don't know what will be the importance of this relic in the ST but it implies that relics play an important role. And Snoke chose Kylo precisely for what he is made of: the dark side - and the light.

Cool That Kylo - wearing with the f****ing Vader cape - unexpectedly leads the FO firetroops on Crait with bug Vader style


==> I don't think that this is a coincidence that this shot has been bothering us since the trailer came out. But Kylo is definitely paralleling young Vader there and not a random parallel: Vader leading the troops to the Jedi temple represented the very first steps of the Empire he and Sidious intended to build. Plus, we can't be sure that the two shots are reated but he seems to wear his cape there. We also see his scar but he definitely has no plaster anymore.  

So if I would be at Snoke's place, I would use Vader's spawn to regain my own youth, beauty and power back in order to finish what Vader had started:(re)create an Empire in which would be ruled by a young, handsome and fearsome leader who would be all powerful thanks to a relic (made of the dark side and the light like the one in the Poe Comics) acquired during the battle on Crait. So I don't think it is impossible that Snoke and Kylo become one single character in the end, explaining why Kylo is leading the FO firetroops on Crait with such big Vader style. But it's only me and my headcanon. Maybe there is overanalysis and the marketing means nothing in this sense. Still, I wouldn't rule out this possibility. Actually, it is not the absence or not of the scar that is the most important IMO. Maybe that the pic where he hasn't is just a lucky coincidence. Still until I see the film, I think that the pic of Kylo on Crait will make me wonder about his trajectory But I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Snoke wants to get youth, beauty and power by using Kylo and gaining his raw power. Thus, Kylo becomes indeed more evil but it doesn't rule out redemption because he is actually under Snoke's influence.

Plus, who says that Rey wouldn't manage to save him earlier than we think? Maybe he is under Snoke's influence on Crait, she finds a way to make him come to his senses again and he offers his hand with sad-puppy eyes as everything burns around them.

I don't know what can make the most sense about Kylo's trajectory. Neither evil Kylo nor Resistance Kylo seems to represent an unexpected fate IMO. So  I try to imagine something in between that would be unexpected and shocking both for the GA and for Reylos, that is to say something that wouldn't prevent Reylo from happening in the end but would create uncertainly in the next episode by bringing the greatest emotional conflict possible for the heroine: saving the galaxy by destroying Snoke (and taking the risk to destroy her love interest in the process) or let Snoke rule the galaxy by terror (and let the Skywalker's legacy be remembered as a bloody legacy forever).  That's the greatest potential dilemma that I see for Rey because she would have to chose between her duty and her personal interests, not because she is in love with the monster like Padme but because she would fall for a man who is the victim of the monster.
@reylo1992

Hm, I don't know... maybe you're right and it's just that I dislike the idea of the "body-snatch scenario" so much.  L-puke

How should that go exactly? Snoke will become Kylo/Ben and where did Kylo's personality go? Two beings battling over Kylos body in his head?
Or do their personalities fuse . And how the hell do you "unmake" such a big incident? If this is what's going to happen you can kiss Reylo goodbye as well. Because they will have to concentrate on this big problem that Snoke has taken Kylos body in IX

Anyway- it's a possibility and IF they going for this I just hope it's what Snoke is planning but won't succeed.

@Night Huntress

I'm not particularly in love with the Possession option either. I am much more of a "Kylo and Rey Go Rogue after TLJ" kind of girl. Very Happy

However, there has been a lot of mind manipulation in the new canon, so I don't think something like this could be outside the realm of possibility unfortunately. That being said, I really don't think the "Kylo walking in the cave" scene is "Kylo evil on steroids". It resembles the Anakin shot of taking over the temple so closely that I just don't see Rian Johnson copying it so completely if he wasn't going to subvert it.

As such, I am currently of the opinion that Kylo is actually going to turn his back on Snoke pretty early and may do a lot of "good" things in TLJ that could even lead up to Rey and Kylo having "I love you" and/or kiss and/or a similar moment. But ... since this is the second chapter and things probably do end on a very uncertain note, and because Adam Driver left how Kylo would end TLJ very nebulous ("depends on what your definition of living is", though that could as easily mean that Kylo dies and Ben lives), I could see a scenario where Kylo is actually in a really good place, but then "something/someone (Snoke or darkness or whatever)" takes him over unwillingly or he lets that take him over to spare Rey from facing it, and he is caught in a limbo/purgatory of his own mind.

I could see this scenario playing out like a more extended version of Harry Potter being possessed by Voldermort at the end of Order of the Phoenix where Kylo will need to find the will and the hope to fight off the darkness. (His love of Rey will be that hope). I also could see something like this being combined with something like Gandalf fighting the Balrog. Kylo has been plagued by an insidious, outside darkness his whole life. Harry Potter was never oppressed by it the way Kylo has been. So I think it's very possible that Kylo may have to have some existential fight with his demons, either in his mind, some limbo world, or in a spiritual type of vision. And when I say fighting "darkness", I mean something actually evil. I don't think his "emotional darkness", which the Jedi would have decried, is a problem at all. I think the meeting of rationality and emotion in the middle will form "The Balance" in some way.

Under this scenario, Rey would see this darkness "take Kylo" and would be set on saving him moving into the next movie. However, this echoes the ESB ending very heavily, though Kylo would actually be a much more active participant here than Han was in ESB, because no one can just unfreeze him. Rey may be able to encourage him or give him some assistance, but he will largely need to escape the possession himself. And I actually do think that existential fight thing would be a good thing for him to do somewhere. I just don't know if the end of TLJ is where it should happen, not just because of the ESB similarities, but also because, though in many ways I do think the ST is about saving the soul of Ben Solo, I do think that there will be larger "force" things and war things at play, and ending on a "save Ben from his possession" note might make things too small.

I think I would prefer Kylo and Rey to go rogue at the end of TLJ and to have him have an existential demon fight somewhere in IX, almost like his own "not a Jedi yet" moment, along with whatever fundamental things Rey must go through, the force must go through, the galaxy must go through. But we'll see how it plays out I guess.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 6:33 am

OT- am I the only one in this fandom not into Harry Potter? Rolling Eyes

Like I said- I wouldn't rule it out... I just hope for something different. I don't think we get a cheesy romance in VII either- I would be happy if Rey & Kylo/Ben have a civil conversation or bonding moments, because I'm all for a believable slow burn romance.
I don't think we will get a "Happy Ending"- but we will know where everyone stands (wasn't that what RJ said?)

And also Adams face when questioned about Kylo's fate in TLJ - It's just a feeling, but while I think it won't be a fluffy happy ending- it won't be something so dark as being possessed by Snoke either.

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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by IoJovi on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 8:30 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:....but I have rather a bad feeling about this.
@reylo1992

What? Like an evil clone of Kylo is wandering around leading the troops on Crait? Lolilol Sapristi
@Night Huntress

I'm not gonna lie - this thought crossed my mind too... *ducks from the onslaught of incoming rocks* Laughing
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by nite0wl29 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 8:49 am

@Night Huntress wrote:OT- am I the only one in this fandom not into Harry Potter? Rolling Eyes

Like I said- I wouldn't rule it out... I just hope for something different. I don't think we get a cheesy romance in VII either- I would be happy if Rey & Kylo/Ben have a civil conversation or bonding moments, because I'm all for a believable slow burn romance.
I don't think we will get a "Happy Ending"- but we will know where everyone stands (wasn't that what RJ said?)

And also Adams face when questioned about Kylo's fate in TLJ - It's just a feeling, but while I think it won't be a fluffy happy ending- it won't be something so dark as being possessed by Snoke either.

@Night Huntress

^^this! I keep thinking about Adam's expressions in this video and he just seems so excited and proud of his character. I just keep thinking back on the turmoil that Kylo has to be going through internally. Emotionally, you can see he's a train wreck waiting to happen at any second in the trailer. By "living" my head canon/interpretation is that he's physically alive, but emotionally completely torn apart. I can only imagine that he feels he has no where to go and feels trapped by his inner demons. He killed his father, his mother wanted him brought home BUT knowingly ordered the destruction of SKB with the assumption that her own son would be there. That doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies for a happy life.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:41 am

@IoJovi wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:....but I have rather a bad feeling about this.
@reylo1992

What? Like an evil clone of Kylo is wandering around leading the troops on Crait? Lolilol Sapristi
@Night Huntress

I'm not gonna lie - this thought crossed my mind too... *ducks from the onslaught of incoming rocks* Laughing
@IoJovi
Snoke being a shape-shifter or body-snatcher of some kind has crossed my mind too of late. It's a pretty out-there theory but we know nothing about Snoke's abilities, plus he's not human. Having inhuman powers + the Force isn't a stretch, and it could be an interesting explanation for the duality we're seeing in Luke's image as well. Don't want to go overboard with this, though. It's probably not true. Laughing
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by IoJovi on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:48 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:....but I have rather a bad feeling about this.
@reylo1992

What? Like an evil clone of Kylo is wandering around leading the troops on Crait? Lolilol Sapristi
@Night Huntress

I'm not gonna lie - this thought crossed my mind too... *ducks from the onslaught of incoming rocks* Laughing
@IoJovi
Snoke being a shape-shifter or body-snatcher of some kind has crossed my mind too of late. It's a pretty out-there theory but we know nothing about Snoke's abilities, plus he's not human. Having inhuman powers + the Force isn't a stretch, and it could be an interesting explanation for the duality we're seeing in Luke's image as well. Don't want to go overboard with this, though. It's probably not true. Laughing
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah I most definitely don't want to dive down that rabbit hole too far. I'd most likely come out with a heavy duty tin foil hat made from steel... Laughing
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:54 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Snoke being a shape-shifter or body-snatcher of some kind has crossed my mind too of late. It's a pretty out-there theory but we know nothing about Snoke's abilities, plus he's not human. Having inhuman powers + the Force isn't a stretch, and it could be an interesting explanation for the duality we're seeing in Luke's image as well. Don't want to go overboard with this, though. It's probably not true. Laughing
@FrolickingFizzgig

I read somewhere (don't remember where exactly) that one of Snoke's abilities supposed be creating illusions...hmmm.
What if Kylo already deserted the first order and that's an illusion of him walking in front of the troops... WTH Lolilol
Okey, now I sound like some of the Antis creating silly theories in denial IYF
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by nite0wl29 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:57 am

Maybe Kylo is leading the troops but he turns on them? confused
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:33 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:FWIW, I think that there are other possible explanations for Kylo appearing to confidently lead the FO on Crait other than him being Eviler and Eviler.
@ISeeAnIsland
Namely these shots being from earlier in the film than many are speculating or assuming. There's this bizarre notion in the fandom right now with regards to this film, like everybody's convinced they've figured certain things out even though we're missing 95% of what's going on, most importantly the entire "point" of the plot. All we have are the character struggles and GA perceptions that Kylo's going to kill his mom, Luke's going to ditch Rey and Rey's going to be tempted to the dark side by evul Kylo (who killed his mom).

Tbh, I'm sick of this line of thought being dragged into every thread. We get it, gut feelings, whatever, Kylo's not going to be humanized or redeemed(lol) because of one out-of-context shot in a trailer. Many obviously don't share that line of thinking.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:48 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Tbh, I'm sick of this line of thought being dragged into every thread. We get it, gut feelings, whatever, Kylo's not going to be humanized or redeemed(lol) because of one out-of-context shot in a trailer. Many obviously don't share that line of thinking.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thank you! You are right! Same for some pictures from obviously promo shoots...Kylo fierce and without scar (which later turned out to be just not visible because of the bad resolution of the foto) I think we start to see and read too much in everything lately.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:52 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Tbh, I'm sick of this line of thought being dragged into every thread. We get it, gut feelings, whatever, Kylo's not going to be humanized or redeemed(lol) because of one out-of-context shot in a trailer. Many obviously don't share that line of thinking.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thank you! You are right! Same for some pictures from obviously promo shoots...Kylo fierce and without scar (which later turned out to be just not visible because of the bad resolution of the foto) I think we start to see and read too much in everything lately.
@Night Huntress
It's classic fan fatigue. Everybody's just sick of waiting and we're getting anxious so we're over-analyzing every minute detail. We're just going to wind each other up into a tizzy with all this. Seriously.

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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by IoJovi on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:55 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Tbh, I'm sick of this line of thought being dragged into every thread. We get it, gut feelings, whatever, Kylo's not going to be humanized or redeemed(lol) because of one out-of-context shot in a trailer. Many obviously don't share that line of thinking.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thank you! You are right! Same for some pictures from obviously promo shoots...Kylo fierce and without scar (which later turned out to be just not visible because of the bad resolution of the foto) I think we start to see and read too much in everything lately.
@Night Huntress

Exactly. I'm not going to take one single shot that may be taken out of context. We still have no proof it's Crait, even though the colors are white and red. We have to remember that the trailer is aimed at the GA - not at us and not those on the opposing side. The GA has no idea what Crait even is - they're not going to analyze it. What they do see is the overall impression the trailer gives, particularly that outreaching hand, and that IS what's important.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by AceofWands on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:58 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Tbh, I'm sick of this line of thought being dragged into every thread. We get it, gut feelings, whatever, Kylo's not going to be humanized or redeemed(lol) because of one out-of-context shot in a trailer. Many obviously don't share that line of thinking.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thank you! You are right! Same for some pictures from obviously promo shoots...Kylo fierce and without scar (which later turned out to be just not visible because of the bad resolution of the foto) I think we start to see and read too much in everything lately.
@Night Huntress
It's classic fan fatigue. Everybody's just sick of waiting and we're getting anxious so we're over-analyzing every minute detail. We're just going to wind each other up into a tizzy with all this. Seriously.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Frankly I thought it was just speculation.

Maybe Kylo has a sort of dual personality in TLJ. Why not? It doesn't mean he won't be redeemed cause he'll obviously be redeemed.

Maybe, like some people speculated, he gets his body snatched by Snoke. I doubt it, but hey, speculating can be fun. (But please don't make me imagine Snoke looking hot like that Laughing Evil or Very Mad  )

It's not cool to tell people what they can or cannot speculate.

It's the second movie and things should have a dark turn so that the trilogy will be interesting. So it might involve Kylo. Let people speculate what will go wrong. I don't see anything to do with anxiety.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 11:14 am

Ive just read that the director of Thor 3 is bragging it is the best film of the year. How many bets come December it will lose its crown? Very Happy
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by snufkin on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 12:03 pm

Aw, don't pick on Taika! He's a great director, total mensch, and his movies are so lovely. What We Do in the Shadows is one of the funniest movies I've ever seen and if you haven't seen Hunt for the Wilderpeople yet, you should watch it. I'm not really interested in Thor, but the fact that he's getting away with saying that he said he wanted to make Withnail and I with superheroes is a plus in my book. The movie just needs to come out and be done with so he can go back to making the werewolf mockumentary with Rhys "Ginger Balls" Darby that got tabled because of Thor.

Also @Night Huntress no you're not the only person who feels that way about Harry Potter.





Also I'm in the same mindset as Fizz, the trailer's the amuse bouche but we have no idea what the main course is going to be. Based on what we've seen in the trailer, we have a flavor, but no way of knowing until we see the movie what exactly is going down.



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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by Anakin Skywalker on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 2:24 pm

I really think that Kylo's arc is reverse of Anakin's
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 4:09 pm

@AceofWands wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Tbh, I'm sick of this line of thought being dragged into every thread. We get it, gut feelings, whatever, Kylo's not going to be humanized or redeemed(lol) because of one out-of-context shot in a trailer. Many obviously don't share that line of thinking.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thank you! You are right! Same for some pictures from obviously promo shoots...Kylo fierce and without scar (which later turned out to be just not visible because of the bad resolution of the foto) I think we start to see and read too much in everything lately.
@Night Huntress
It's classic fan fatigue. Everybody's just sick of waiting and we're getting anxious so we're over-analyzing every minute detail. We're just going to wind each other up into a tizzy with all this. Seriously.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Frankly I thought it was just speculation.

Maybe Kylo has a sort of dual personality in TLJ. Why not? It doesn't mean he won't be redeemed cause he'll obviously be redeemed.

Maybe, like some people speculated, he gets his body snatched by Snoke. I doubt it, but hey, speculating can be fun. (But please don't make me imagine Snoke looking hot like that Laughing Evil or Very Mad  )

It's not cool to tell people what they can or cannot speculate.

It's the second movie and things should have a dark turn so that the trilogy will be interesting. So it might involve Kylo. Let people speculate what will go wrong. I don't see anything to do with anxiety.
@AceofWands

I don't think we shall worry. This is something that I would like to clarify because it seems that I wasn't explicit enough in my last posts.   I was asked by someone for clarification because it seems that my last posts seemed pessimistic .So I was asked if I still believe in Kylo's redemption and if I still believe in Reylo?

My answer: YES   sunny  sunny  sunny  I truly, deeply, 100% believe that Kylo deserves redemption, will ultimately get it and live happily ever after with Rey in the end. But I personally don't see him getting redemption and the girl by the end of TLJ for various reasons that I have explained.

Truly, I would really to love to see them ending TLJ together in the same side, or going somewhere together or anyway having the possibility to spend nice time together because their lack of scenes together was kinda frustrating. But some rational part in me doubt that ending TLJ with this dynamic on this note would serve both the plot of the ST and Reylo in the end. Whether we like it or not, Reylos still represent a small part of  the GA and LF must take account of the entire GA who is maybe ready neither for Kylo's redemption not for Reylo happening so early. And given how fast they bonded in TFA - sort of sleeping together through the Force from their first meeting - I doubt that they would need so much time before they really do it. And since Rian seemed to hint at ambiguity regarding romance, I doubt that we get a scenario where the possibility of Reylo will be too predictable.

Then, there is also the question of their dynamic beyond TLJ and how it will impact the story. Personally, I would really love to have them team up from the beginning of Episode 9 and spending so much nice time together until they ultimately balance to the Force. But some rational part of me doubts that he would be so good for their dynamic because Kylo and Rey represent the central dynamic with the main emotional conflict of the ST. If the conflict is solved by the end of TLJ, I don't know if it would make their relationship so compelling because once again : I think that if they would spend too much time together, they would probably get romantically involved really fast;  And most of the Disney, the Prince and the Princess end up romantically involved by the end after they overcame many obstacles.

On the other hand, it is complicated to end TLJ with the statu quo, that is to say with Kylo always so conflicted but still in the FO and with Rey more conflicted but still in the Resistance. This is what leads me to assume that something important must happen. But no need to worry IMO: even if LF would make Kylo eviler, I think that they would give him a very good reason. Personally, the only way I see him becoming eviler would involve Snoke's evil plan for making Ben a victim  of it. Now, that's a possibility among many other scenarios for TLJ. I don't know to what extent evil Snylo scenario is relevant in comparison to other. That's my personal opinion that that kind of scenario - even if it seems darker than Kylo and Rey teaming up or going rogue - could serve both the plot of the ST and Reylo  better in the end. But I understand that some people don't feel good with this and I don't mean to bring any anxiety or look too adamant.

In any case, I have no doubt that Kylo will be redeemed and romantically involved with Rey by the end of the ST no matter how things turn in TLJ. So let's stay positive because the trailer was rather Reylo friendly sunny sunny sunny
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by DeeBee on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 7:06 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Snoke being a shape-shifter or body-snatcher of some kind has crossed my mind too of late. It's a pretty out-there theory but we know nothing about Snoke's abilities, plus he's not human. Having inhuman powers + the Force isn't a stretch, and it could be an interesting explanation for the duality we're seeing in Luke's image as well. Don't want to go overboard with this, though. It's probably not true. Laughing
@FrolickingFizzgig

I read somewhere (don't remember where exactly) that one of Snoke's abilities supposed be creating illusions...hmmm.
What if Kylo already deserted the first order and that's an illusion of him walking in front of the troops... WTH Lolilol
Okey, now I sound like some of the Antis creating silly theories in denial  IYF
@Night Huntress

yeah @Night Huntress I'm with you!
I'm thinking a big twist (and this is not based on any spoilers so I'm not spoiling) will be that the throne room confrontation will end with Ben/Kylo and Rey finding out Snoke isn't there like they (and we) thought he was. It was all an illusion.. and in XI we have them hunting him down, and confronting him. (and ahem- defeating him Wink )
This idea came to mind when I was watching the movie 'The Shadow' the other day - a visually really interesting movie with lots of use of illusions. Maybe before he turned bad, Snoke's day job was cruise ship magician? Wink
It would certainly explain his wardrobe!!!! Smile
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:02 pm

@DeeBee wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Snoke being a shape-shifter or body-snatcher of some kind has crossed my mind too of late. It's a pretty out-there theory but we know nothing about Snoke's abilities, plus he's not human. Having inhuman powers + the Force isn't a stretch, and it could be an interesting explanation for the duality we're seeing in Luke's image as well. Don't want to go overboard with this, though. It's probably not true. Laughing
@FrolickingFizzgig

I read somewhere (don't remember where exactly) that one of Snoke's abilities supposed be creating illusions...hmmm.
What if Kylo already deserted the first order and that's an illusion of him walking in front of the troops... WTH Lolilol
Okey, now I sound like some of the Antis creating silly theories in denial  IYF
@Night Huntress

yeah @Night Huntress I'm with you!
I'm thinking a big twist (and this is not based on any spoilers so I'm not spoiling) will be that the throne room confrontation will end with Ben/Kylo and Rey finding out Snoke isn't there like they (and we) thought he was. It was all an illusion.. and in XI we have them hunting him down, and confronting him. (and ahem- defeating him Wink )
This idea came to mind when I was watching the movie 'The Shadow' the other day - a visually really interesting movie with lots of use of illusions. Maybe before he turned bad, Snoke's day job was cruise ship magician? Wink
It would certainly explain his wardrobe!!!! Smile
@DeeBee

There were a few fake reddit leaks that alluded to Snoke either being a hologram (even in scenes where he was supposed to be "real") or some other "man behind the curtain" stuff going on.

While these leaks have since been debunked for other reasons, I would suspect the reason why these "leakers" latched onto these ideas is because there is definitely a sense that Snoke gave us in TFA that he might not be what he seems.
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Re: Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII

Post by DeeBee on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:20 pm

@ISeAnIsland - thanks for the heads up!
Sorry I just realised I took this thread off topic.. got distracted by that stunning gold bathrobe Wink
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