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Post by Kessel on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:28 pm

Yeah, I was never really worried about Luke dying in Episode VIII. Especially since I agree that he and Leia probably won't be reunited until the 3rd act.

Also, Trevorrow's comments about wanting Luke and Leia to be part of IX (I'm paraphrasing) makes me think Luke and Leia aren't dying anytime soon and I'm glad for it.
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Post by snufkin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:36 pm

I would guess part of what is going to be the bummer ending for VIII would be that Luke finally returns to human society and:

  • Resistance has been pretty nastily decimated by the First Order and is not the robust fleet you see at the end of ESB

  • Resistance and the NR are in tatters with the FO finally emerging from the shadows to assert control. Luke & crew may even be on the run

  • Leia is still in a coma, no signs of recovering from her injuries

  • Rey is not with him, having been taken off by his fallen/corrupted nephew to Snoke and the FO with the feelings/loyalties between those two very much conflicted. Snoke has to be very much a real and frightening danger to both her life and self determination
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    Post by Kessel on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:43 pm

    @snufkin wrote:I would guess part of what is going to be the bummer ending for VIII would be that Luke finally returns to human society and:

  • Resistance has been pretty nastily decimated by the First Order and is not the robust fleet you see at the end of ESB

  • Resistance and the NR are in tatters with the FO finally emerging from the shadows to assert control. Luke & crew may even be on the run

  • Leia is still in a coma, no signs of recovering from her injuries

  • Rey is not with him, having been taken off by his fallen/corrupted nephew to Snoke and the FO with the feelings/loyalties between those two very much conflicted. Snoke has to be very much a real and frightening danger to both her life and self determination
  • @snufkin

    I agree with all of the above being very likely. As for Leia, I think she probably is going to be in a coma for a large chunk of the movie, but I kind of hope she wakes up when Luke arrives. It would give a little bit of hope to the end of Episode VIII, if the rest of the ending is dark and uncertain.

    Then again, maybe Leia being in her coma might still drive part of the tension going into Episode IX..we'll just have to wait and see...
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    Post by vaderito on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:50 pm

    @Kessel89 Leia could feature in vision/memory/dream/flashback type of thing which is guaranteed to happen on Ahch-to if we go by Rian's Jungian short movie and his book inspirations.
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    Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 2:50 pm

    Kessel89 wrote:
    @snufkin wrote:I would guess part of what is going to be the bummer ending for VIII would be that Luke finally returns to human society and:

  • Resistance has been pretty nastily decimated by the First Order and is not the robust fleet you see at the end of ESB

  • Resistance and the NR are in tatters with the FO finally emerging from the shadows to assert control. Luke & crew may even be on the run

  • Leia is still in a coma, no signs of recovering from her injuries

  • Rey is not with him, having been taken off by his fallen/corrupted nephew to Snoke and the FO with the feelings/loyalties between those two very much conflicted. Snoke has to be very much a real and frightening danger to both her life and self determination
  • @snufkin

    I agree with all of the above being very likely. As for Leia, I think she probably is going to be in a coma for a large chunk of the movie, but I kind of hope she wakes up when Luke arrives. It would give a little bit of hope to the end of Episode VIII, if the rest of the ending is dark and uncertain.
    @Kessel89

    Same here. I think that @snufkin nailed it, but I also tend to think that Leia is going to wake up at the around the time that Luke arrives. The Luke-Leia reunion will likely be about the only upbeat thing about VIII's ending. I think we might also get a short exchange between Luke and Leia where Luke updates Leia on her son, e.g. "Ben found us on Ahch-To. He seduced Rey to join him, took the ______ (relic from the Jedi temple) and now they're all in the hands of the First Order."


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    Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 3:12 pm

    Kessel89 wrote:
    @snufkin wrote:I would guess part of what is going to be the bummer ending for VIII would be that Luke finally returns to human society and:

  • Resistance has been pretty nastily decimated by the First Order and is not the robust fleet you see at the end of ESB

  • Resistance and the NR are in tatters with the FO finally emerging from the shadows to assert control. Luke & crew may even be on the run

  • Leia is still in a coma, no signs of recovering from her injuries

  • Rey is not with him, having been taken off by his fallen/corrupted nephew to Snoke and the FO with the feelings/loyalties between those two very much conflicted. Snoke has to be very much a real and frightening danger to both her life and self determination
  • @snufkin

    I agree with all of the above being very likely. As for Leia, I think she probably is going to be in a coma for a large chunk of the movie, but I kind of hope she wakes up when Luke arrives. It would give a little bit of hope to the end of Episode VIII, if the rest of the ending is dark and uncertain.

    Then again, maybe Leia being in her coma might still drive part of the tension going into Episode IX..we'll just have to wait and see...
    @Kessel89

    Yep. I would also add Carrie s unintentional slip about having a really big dress on set. That does not suggest that she would be in a coma at least at the end of the movie. I hope so.
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    Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 3:19 pm

    @ISeeAnIsland wrote:
    Kessel89 wrote:
    @snufkin wrote:I would guess part of what is going to be the bummer ending for VIII would be that Luke finally returns to human society and:

  • Resistance has been pretty nastily decimated by the First Order and is not the robust fleet you see at the end of ESB

  • Resistance and the NR are in tatters with the FO finally emerging from the shadows to assert control. Luke & crew may even be on the run

  • Leia is still in a coma, no signs of recovering from her injuries

  • Rey is not with him, having been taken off by his fallen/corrupted nephew to Snoke and the FO with the feelings/loyalties between those two very much conflicted. Snoke has to be very much a real and frightening danger to both her life and self determination
  • @snufkin

    I agree with all of the above being very likely. As for Leia, I think she probably is going to be in a coma for a large chunk of the movie, but I kind of hope she wakes up when Luke arrives. It would give a little bit of hope to the end of Episode VIII, if the rest of the ending is dark and uncertain.
    @Kessel89

    Same here. I think that @snufkin nailed it, but I also tend to think that Leia is going to wake up at the around the time that Luke arrives. The Luke-Leia reunion will likely be about the only upbeat thing about VIII's ending. I think we might also get a short exchange between Luke and Leia where Luke updates Leia on her son, e.g. "Ben found us on Ahch-To. He seduced Rey to join him, took the ______ (relic from the Jedi temple) and now they're all in the hands of the First Order."


    @ISeeAnIsland

    I agree with you about all of this.  There are going to leave the situation looking really dire ... so dire in fact that Rey might either be imprisoned and/or be pretty far down the road of the dark side ... and if the Resistance/NR are decimated, which I expect they will be ... practically everything could turn on Kylo/Ben deciding to stay or leave his dark side path. Like his "moment of truth" will be everything. In weird way, Kylo may be "their only hope", because it may be only through him that Rey is released and/or brought back from darkness ... and him letting her go in a way, so she can do what she needs to do.  The non-FO people are going to need to catch a break, and I, and I think most people here, think that crucial break is going to be Kylo.  I just hope they give us some decent hint that he is going to turn on Snoke by the end of the movie (they probably won't make it perfectly clear because they will want to torture us, lol), or it'll be fighting times again for the Kylo fan from 2017-2019.
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    Post by Kessel on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:09 pm

    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Yep. I would also add Carrie s unintentional slip about having a really big dress on set. That does not suggest that she would be in a coma at least at the end of the movie. I hope so.
    @Darth_Awakened

    I didn't know about that unintentional spoiler from Carrie regarding Leia having a big dress on set. However, maybe that dress could be a Hosnian Prime memorial dress she wears before the coma (or when it happens)?

    @ISeeAnIsland wrote:
    Same here. I think that @snufkin nailed it, but I also tend to think that Leia is going to wake up at the around the time that Luke arrives. The Luke-Leia reunion will likely be about the only upbeat thing about VIII's ending. I think we might also get a short exchange between Luke and Leia where Luke updates Leia on her son, e.g. "Ben found us on Ahch-To. He seduced Rey to join him, took the ______ (relic from the Jedi temple) and now they're all in the hands of the First Order."

    @ISeeAnIsland

    Yes. If Rey ends up with the FO at the end of Episode VIII, I can't see her being captured against her will again. MSW said that there is something that happens with Rey and Kylo, but they don't know, 'how it gets there' and Rey willingly leaving with Kylo fits that. I think Rey would go willingly because she believes Kylo (he promises her information or convinces her to work with him to defeat the FO and Snoke). Also, if Rey ends up with the FO at the end of Episode VIII, that probably means Kylo doesn't go rogue from the FO at the end of Episode VIII either (at least not openly).

    I can Kylo's intentions being left ambiguous, if he lures Rey into joining him so it's not clear if he can be trusted....or whether he'll betray Rey or Snoke. Like @SoloSideCousin said, there will likely be a lot of debates about Kylo's end game between Episide VIII and IX.
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    Post by snufkin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:18 pm

    Well there are the "how are people going to react to Rey _______" comment, so it's probably not that she'll stop kicking his a** and let him show her the ways of haircare product. I would love to see it be a "who's zooming whom*" type of dynamic set up between the two, especially in terms of Rey going willingly with him.

    Whether or not Leia is in or out of the coma, you know that no plain old hospital gown will do for the Queen of the Galaxy. I fully expect to see her wearing some kind of outrageous fancy type of leisurewear while in her coma, with the running gag that her hair and make-up is done to the nines. If she doesn't wake up at all after the attack (which I would guess could be a nod to AotC for another character's motivation),  I'll be silly and say that she could be like Bernie in Weekend at Bernies.

    * translation for the non-native English speakers, "Who's Zooming Who" is an idiomatic expression that comes from an Aretha Franklin song which appears to be about a man seducing a woman but turns out to that the woman is playing the same game and beating him at it

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    Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:30 pm

    Kessel89 wrote:
    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Yep. I would also add Carrie s unintentional slip about having a really big dress on set. That does not suggest that she would be in a coma at least at the end of the movie. I hope so.
    @Darth_Awakened

    I didn't know about that unintentional spoiler from Carrie regarding Leia having a big dress on set. However, maybe that dress could be a Hosnian Prime memorial dress she wears before the coma (or when it happens)?

    @ISeeAnIsland wrote:
    Same here. I think that @snufkin nailed it, but I also tend to think that Leia is going to wake up at the around the time that Luke arrives. The Luke-Leia reunion will likely be about the only upbeat thing about VIII's ending. I think we might also get a short exchange between Luke and Leia where Luke updates Leia on her son, e.g. "Ben found us on Ahch-To. He seduced Rey to join him, took the ______ (relic from the Jedi temple) and now they're all in the hands of the First Order."

    @ISeeAnIsland

    Yes. If Rey ends up with the FO at the end of Episode VIII, I can't see her being captured against her will again. MSW said that there is something that happens with Rey and Kylo, but they don't know, 'how it gets there' and Rey willingly leaving with Kylo fits that. I think Rey would go willingly because she believes Kylo (he promises her information or convinces her to work with him to defeat the FO and Snoke). Also, if Rey ends up with the FO at the end of Episode VIII, that probably means Kylo doesn't go rogue from the FO at the end of Episode VIII either (at least not openly).

    I can Kylo's intentions being left ambiguous, if he lures Rey into joining him so it's not clear if he can be trusted....or whether he'll betray Rey or Snoke. Like @SoloSideCousin said, there will likely be a lot of debates about Kylo's end game between Episide VIII and IX.
    @Kessel89

    Hossnian Prime memorial - are we sure we are getting one at all?
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    Post by Guest on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:35 pm

    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Kessel89 wrote:
    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Yep. I would also add Carrie s unintentional slip about having a really big dress on set. That does not suggest that she would be in a coma at least at the end of the movie. I hope so.
    @Darth_Awakened

    I didn't know about that unintentional spoiler from Carrie regarding Leia having a big dress on set. However, maybe that dress could be a Hosnian Prime memorial dress she wears before the coma (or when it happens)?

    @ISeeAnIsland wrote:
    Same here. I think that @snufkin nailed it, but I also tend to think that Leia is going to wake up at the around the time that Luke arrives. The Luke-Leia reunion will likely be about the only upbeat thing about VIII's ending. I think we might also get a short exchange between Luke and Leia where Luke updates Leia on her son, e.g. "Ben found us on Ahch-To. He seduced Rey to join him, took the ______ (relic from the Jedi temple) and now they're all in the hands of the First Order."

    @ISeeAnIsland

    Yes. If Rey ends up with the FO at the end of Episode VIII, I can't see her being captured against her will again. MSW said that there is something that happens with Rey and Kylo, but they don't know, 'how it gets there' and Rey willingly leaving with Kylo fits that. I think Rey would go willingly because she believes Kylo (he promises her information or convinces her to work with him to defeat the FO and Snoke). Also, if Rey ends up with the FO at the end of Episode VIII, that probably means Kylo doesn't go rogue from the FO at the end of Episode VIII either (at least not openly).

    I can Kylo's intentions being left ambiguous, if he lures Rey into joining him so it's not clear if he can be trusted....or whether he'll betray Rey or Snoke. Like @SoloSideCousin said, there will likely be a lot of debates about Kylo's end game between Episide VIII and IX.
    @Kessel89

    Hossnian Prime memorial - are we sure we are getting one at all?
    @Darth_Awakened

    Carrie already confirmed there would be NO funeral for Han at the recent Wizard World Con. As I understand it, the Dubrovnik costumes were misinterpreted as funereal garb when they were actually black robes worn by the actors to cover their actual costumes.

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    Post by snufkin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:39 pm

    Just from reading Bloodline, my guess is that Leia probably doesn't have the time/patience to sit through another NR tribute to a deceased male loved one. Especially after the statue of her adopted father being blown up.
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    Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:43 pm

    Kessel89 wrote:
    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Yep. I would also add Carrie s unintentional slip about having a really big dress on set. That does not suggest that she would be in a coma at least at the end of the movie. I hope so.
    @Darth_Awakened

    I didn't know about that unintentional spoiler from Carrie regarding Leia having a big dress on set. However, maybe that dress could be a Hosnian Prime memorial dress she wears before the coma (or when it happens)?

    @ISeeAnIsland wrote:
    Same here. I think that @snufkin nailed it, but I also tend to think that Leia is going to wake up at the around the time that Luke arrives. The Luke-Leia reunion will likely be about the only upbeat thing about VIII's ending. I think we might also get a short exchange between Luke and Leia where Luke updates Leia on her son, e.g. "Ben found us on Ahch-To. He seduced Rey to join him, took the ______ (relic from the Jedi temple) and now they're all in the hands of the First Order."

    @ISeeAnIsland

    Yes. If Rey ends up with the FO at the end of Episode VIII, I can't see her being captured against her will again. MSW said that there is something that happens with Rey and Kylo, but they don't know, 'how it gets there' and Rey willingly leaving with Kylo fits that. I think Rey would go willingly because she believes Kylo (he promises her information or convinces her to work with him to defeat the FO and Snoke). Also, if Rey ends up with the FO at the end of Episode VIII, that probably means Kylo doesn't go rogue from the FO at the end of Episode VIII either (at least not openly).

    I can Kylo's intentions being left ambiguous, if he lures Rey into joining him so it's not clear if he can be trusted....or whether he'll betray Rey or Snoke. Like @SoloSideCousin said, there will likely be a lot of debates about Kylo's end game between Episide VIII and IX.
    @Kessel89

    I agree--I think that Rey getting captured (especially captured by Kylo again) would be redundant. Even if she doesn't take off with Kylo, it'll be a scenario like something where she's given a choice to go with Luke or stay with Kylo, and she opts to stay with Kylo and they're both picked up by the FO. (And you get Kylo at the end telling Snoke that he doesn't care about Rey, etc...which he's doing to protect Rey, but will look ambiguous to the audience.)

    But I like the idea better the way you put it...Kylo talks Rey into joining him (with Rey trusting him but his motives still seeming ambiguous to the audience). It would certainly fit with that MSW rumor of "something happens...it's not a romance...but I don't know how it gets there".

    I think a lot of how it will shake out depends on how much Kylo's delusions get shattered. Does he figure out that Snoke really is just using him? How much of an attachment does he still have to Snoke by the end of VIII?

    @snufkin wrote:Well there are the "how are people going to react to Rey _______" comment, so it's probably not that she'll stop kicking his a** and let him show her the ways of haircare product. I would love to see it be a "who's zooming whom*" type of dynamic set up between the two, especially in terms of Rey going willingly with him.

    Whether or not Leia is in or out of the coma, you know that no plain old hospital gown will do for the Queen of the Galaxy. I fully expect to see her wearing some kind of outrageous fancy type of leisurewear while in her coma, with the running gag that her hair and make-up is done to the nines. If she doesn't wake up at all after the attack (which I would guess could be a nod to AotC for another character's motivation),  I'll be silly and say that she could be like Bernie in Weekend at Bernies.

    * translation for the non-native English speakers, "Who's Zooming Who" is an idiomatic expression that comes from an Aretha Franklin song which appears to be about a man seducing a woman but turns out to that the woman is playing the same game and beating him at it

    @snufkin

    That would be awesome. I would love to see Rey playing her own mindgames with Kylo as opposed to just being the target of his. It would also fit with what we've seen of how her character behaves around him.
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    Post by CienaRee on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:43 pm

    This is interesting:
    https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/770695143099740161
    Pablo answered some question about how much Daisy knows about Rey's background and that speculation about whether  GL's treatment had Rey as a Solo originally.

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    Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:45 pm

    @Darth_Awakened wrote:

    Hossnian Prime memorial - are we sure we are getting one at all?
    @Darth_Awakened

    I don't think there have been any spoilers/leaks to this effect from any reliable sources. However, it's been mentioned in a lot of random reddit "leaks", etc.

    Until we hear otherwise, I'm inclined to go with Leia being injured on her transport ship in an ambush/evacuation situation.
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    Post by snufkin on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 4:52 pm

    @ISeeAnIsland wrote:
    @snufkin

    That would be awesome. I would love to see Rey playing her own mindgames with Kylo as opposed to just being the target of his. It would also fit with what we've seen of how her character behaves around him.

    @ISeeAnIsland

    She's already seduced him twice and ghosted, so I would expect nothing less. Especially because his "game" is about at this level



    or like Dad trying to impress Mom when he first meets her

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    Post by Kessel on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:07 pm

    I don't know how feasible a Hosnian Prime memorial is for Epsiode VIII, but I was just trying to think of a scenario where Leia would wear a big (fancy) dress in Epsidoe VIII when she's probably going to be spending most of her screen time on a military base and I thought maybe it could be in a memorial/ceremony setting. I don't know if they would put her in a fancy dress during her coma.

    @Snufkin- We all know Rey would definitely win the zooming game... Wink I agree it would be interesting if Rey was possibly also playing a strategy game with Kylo to some extent...

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    Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:09 pm

    @ISeeAnIsland wrote:
    @Darth_Awakened wrote:

    Hossnian Prime memorial - are we sure we are getting one at all?
    @Darth_Awakened

    I don't think there have been any spoilers/leaks to this effect from any reliable sources. However, it's been mentioned in a lot of random reddit "leaks", etc.

    Until we hear otherwise, I'm inclined to go with Leia being injured on her transport ship in an ambush/evacuation situation.
    @ISeeAnIsland

    Yep. I think that Hossnian Prime Memorial was derived from Han Solo funeral rumor - which was debunked.
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    Post by Guest on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:14 pm

    Apparently, we don't know yet whether Snoke is human or not. https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/770739998190477312

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    Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:17 pm

    Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Apparently, we don't know yet whether Snoke is human or not. https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/770739998190477312
    @Mrs Ben Solo

    Hmmmm....so Snoke could still end as a human (a sort of)
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    Post by Kessel on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:20 pm

    Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Apparently, we don't know yet whether Snoke is human or not. https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/770739998190477312
    @Mrs Ben Solo

    Well, that is true since TFA tells us almost nothing about Snoke...

    The script says he's not quite human.


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    Post by Guest on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:21 pm

    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Apparently, we don't know yet whether Snoke is human or not. https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/770739998190477312
    @Mrs Ben Solo

    Hmmmm....so Snoke could still end as a human (a sort of)
    @Darth_Awakened

    I would say it's a possibility at this point. Pablo was asked about the Alan Dean Foster line from the novelisation about Snoke being humanoid but not human. However, he did not offer any clarification on that.

    ETA - @Kessel89 Hmm, as you say, that script direction doesn't rule him out as being human, or once human but now something else, perhaps? Like how a vampire or such might be described in literature.


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    Post by CienaRee on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:23 pm

    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Apparently, we don't know yet whether Snoke is human or not. https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/770739998190477312
    @Mrs Ben Solo

    Hmmmm....so Snoke could still end as a human (a sort of)
    @Darth_Awakened

    I think it was mentioned by the artists that Snoke got more and more gruesome as he feel deeper into the DS but heused to be beautiful before that which seems to indicate that he could have been human.But  I really hope  the LF group do read the novalisations(as they'r meant to be what was the original script)because Snoke's refered to as a humanoid in them.

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    Post by CienaRee on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:25 pm

    Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Apparently, we don't know yet whether Snoke is human or not. https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/770739998190477312
    @Mrs Ben Solo

    Hmmmm....so Snoke could still end as a human (a sort of)
    @Darth_Awakened

    I would say it's a possibility at this point. Pablo was asked about the Alan Dean Foster line from the novelisation about Snoke being humanoid but not human. However, he did not offer any clarification on that.
    @Mrs Ben Solo
    Interesting since he was quick to answer that the ''It's you''line from the novalization is about Rey being the awakening.Maybe he doesn't want to reveal anything potentually spoiler-y because the script refers to him as not quite human which can be taken in lot of ways.

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    Post by Guest on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:29 pm

    @CienaRee wrote:
    @Darth_Awakened wrote:
    Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Apparently, we don't know yet whether Snoke is human or not. https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/770739998190477312
    @Mrs Ben Solo

    Hmmmm....so Snoke could still end as a human (a sort of)
    @Darth_Awakened

    I think it was mentioned by the artists that Snoke got more and more gruesome as he feel deeper into the DS but heused to be beautiful before that which seems to indicate that he could have been human.But  I really hope  the LF group do read the novalisations(as they'r meant to be what was the original script)because Snoke's refered to as a humanoid in them.
    @CienaRee

    It's my understanding that the Lucasfilm story group don't read the movie novelisations, or, at least, they didn't read the ADF TFA one! It was written from an earlier version of the script to the final filmed version, I believe. Pablo has said in the past that when conflict occurs between novel and movie as to what is canon, we should always go with the movie.

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