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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:15 am

The ending always suggested who she is to me. Right from the first time I saw it. I wondered why jj chose to put such emphasis on a simple gesture and saved it for the ending, then it hit me. Actions speak louder than words and imo it has never been truer than when this unidentified girl meets the skywalker twins for the first time. No words, just emphasis on what she means to them. Then I read the script that jj had no intention of sharing with the public and it becomes even clearer to me lol.

When there's no dialogue you get the screenwriters direction notes of what is going on without dialogue. And she holds the saber out to him as s plea to get him onto the fight. He then knows what it means. Why would he know just by looking at this gesture?

Yes based off of the gesture I'm 95% sure he suspects who she is.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 6:11 am

@panki wrote:I agree with @Darth Dingbat ...... the concept art and the story seems to have changed at different points of time...whether Rey was Kira who lived on a swampy planet and was under LST's care, Kylo was a terminator style jedi killer, Finn was a pirate and then a stormie named Sam, Maz was Rose and little Kira's teacher in a class full of alien students, Poe was an elderly war veteran who dies right at the start of the story.....obviously things have changed a lot so we cannot rely on anything as 100% infallible evidence unless it is something that is actual canon.....but nevertheless it is fun speculating till 2017. Smile
@panki

Her story presented to us in TFA has changed in terms of locations, first names and clothes etc, her appearance has changed from concepts. However, after reading what Pablo has said and Daisy. It would seem like her backstory has not changed. The stuff before TFA.

Pablo has stated that reys story is largely the same since Lucas treatments.

I believe it was him who said they had changed Finn and ren considerably through the process.

It's these changed I'm betting that Lucas was not happy about.

The stage names would work like this: Sam was possibly originally Sam Skywalker, kira was possibly originally Kira Kenobi

Sam is no more a skywalker and the random Jedi killer is now a legacy character and the skywalker it seems.
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Post by panki on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:40 am

@Gemini wrote:
@panki wrote:I agree with @Darth Dingbat ...... the concept art and the story seems to have changed at different points of time...whether Rey was Kira who lived on a swampy planet and was under LST's care, Kylo was a terminator style jedi killer, Finn was a pirate and then a stormie named Sam, Maz was Rose and little Kira's teacher in a class full of alien students, Poe was an elderly war veteran who dies right at the start of the story.....obviously things have changed a lot so we cannot rely on anything as 100% infallible evidence unless it is something that is actual canon.....but nevertheless it is fun speculating till 2017. Smile
@panki

Her story presented to us in TFA has changed in terms of locations, first names and clothes etc, her appearance has changed from concepts. However, after reading what Pablo has said and Daisy. It would seem like her backstory has not changed. The stuff before TFA.

Pablo has stated that reys story is largely the same since Lucas treatments.

I believe it was him who said they had changed Finn and ren considerably through the process.

It's these changed I'm betting that Lucas was not happy about.

The stage names would work like this: Sam was possibly originally Sam Skywalker, kira was possibly originally Kira Kenobi

Sam is no more a skywalker and the random Jedi killer is now a legacy character and the skywalker it seems.
@Gemini

I think all the characters could have been changed completely....Rey/Kira could have been either a Kenobi or a Skywalker or even random if we go by the rumors at different stages, while Sam and Jedi Killer were definitely random during the early stages.... and it was Luke who killed Han..... so while the early versions make for interesting and fun speculation, they could be completely different from what was finally decided.

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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:44 am

Wait what

Luke killed Han?

Well thank Jebus that didn't happen lol!

We may have to disagree on that one (character starting  point) with her I just sense that her backstory has never been interchangeable when you link what Pablo said and Daisy. Also the concept art book states that Rey stayed the same pretty much, however Sam changed considerably. But who knows. Just my opinion.
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Post by panki on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:49 am

@Gemini wrote:Wait what

Luke killed Han?

Well thank Jebus that didn't happen lol!

We may have to disagree on that one (character starting  point) with her I just sense that her backstory has never been interchangeable when you link what Pablo said and Daisy. Also the concept art book states that Rey stayed the same pretty much, however Sam changed considerably. But who knows. Just my opinion.
@Gemini

Fair enough... we'll find out in 2017 and I'm sure we'll all be happy as long as the story is good and Rey isn't a Skywalker or Solo. Very Happy

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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 10:55 am

@Gemini wrote:Wait what

Luke killed Han?

Well thank Jebus that didn't happen lol!

We may have to disagree on that one (character starting  point) with her I just sense that her backstory has never been interchangeable when you link what Pablo said and Daisy. Also the concept art book states that Rey stayed the same pretty much, however Sam changed considerably. But who knows. Just my opinion.
@Gemini

Re: Luke killing Han - the version I heard was that Luke was trying to kill Kylo but Han died protecting his son. Though I don't know if this was a "legit" rumour or a misinterpretation of some kind?

I don't think you can take Daisy's words as evidence of the backstory never having changed in the development process, because Daisy can only speak for the time that she's actually been involved in the project. She's not privy to whatever conversations JJ and the team were having with Arndt back in the day.

But, well, even if her backstory has never changed at all, we're still no closer to finding out what it actually is Wink
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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:02 am

Yes but Pablo knows where it started out

She says it's never changed. Not that it's never changed since she was brought into production. How can you know that she hasn't been told that it's never changed from the very start? None of us know, that's why to up to interpretation? @Darth Dingbat

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:16 am

@Gemini
Again, I have to point out that Daisy specifically said it hasn't changed since she heard about it during the filming of TFA. She never said "it was the same from the very beginning of planning the ST" (she wasn't even around for the 2012-2013 treatments). Pablo said that Rey was a character created and fleshed out through multiple treatments that began with Lucas, but all that really tells us is that he was also intending to focus on a female force sensitive (which we know anyway because that much has been outright stated). It doesn't tell us how similar the finished Rey ended up being to the early treatments, and it also doesn't tell us how much the character or her backstory evolved. I pretty much agree with @Darth Dingbat. Perhaps it never changed, but that still doesn't tell us definitively who she is.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:17 am

@Gemini wrote:Yes but Pablo knows where it started out

She says it's never changed. Not that it's never changed since she was brought into production. How can you know that she hasn't been told that it's never changed from the very start? None of us know, that's why to up to interpretation? @Darth Dingbat

@Gemini

True, it's all up to interpretation. We don't really know what's true and what isn't - and we're not getting the real behind-the-scenes story for a long time.

I don't have the quote from Daisy, but I understood it said that Rey's background hasn't changed since she was cast. Which was about February 2014, I think? So the final JJ & Kasdan version would have been in place. I could be wrong, though.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:26 am


There is a ton of evidence that who Kira/Rey is has not changed, from GL's original treatment to JJ & Pablo... She is the one consistent thing about the evolution of TFA, much of the evidence for this is scattered throughout the Kenobi files, I post it as I find it.

The most recent evidence posted was that JJ knew who Rey was and always knew where it/her story was going and Pablo stating that a girl trying to find her way in the universe is the story that GL left them with. Rey is George's original concept I am confident in stating that, one of the clues to this is that her characterization is simple and consistent, she is not all over the place like Finn, the reason the Finn''s character is all over the place is because there where several ideas for who Finn/Sam would be and several different actors, and that shows up on screen, of course Boyega rescues this with his timing and charm. Kylo is definitely influenced by JJ himself and is JJ's Mary Sue.

No one has to believe me, there is a lot of old information out there. I did the research ( because I love doing that kind of thing ) and to figure out JJ's mystery box for myself because I was unsatisfied with Rey's story being so BLANK and a little pissed.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:29 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Gemini
Again, I have to point out that Daisy specifically said it hasn't changed since she heard about it during the filming of TFA. She never said "it was the same from the very beginning of planning the ST" (she wasn't even around for the 2012-2013 treatments). Pablo said that Rey was a character created and fleshed out through multiple treatments that began with Lucas, but all that really tells us is that he was also intending to focus on a female force sensitive (which we know anyway because that much has been outright stated). It doesn't tell us how similar the finished Rey ended up being to the early treatments, and it also doesn't tell us how much the character or her backstory evolved. I pretty much agree with @Darth Dingbat. Perhaps it never changed, but that still doesn't tell us definitively who she is.

And I'll have to state again that her saying that in no way implies that she is only aware of where her backstory  was whilst she was in production. You do not know what was said to her by who. She only says she was told in production. She could have easily been told that it never changed since the start. But we don't know what was actually said to her do we? Can you tell me?
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:43 am

@Gemini wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Gemini
Again, I have to point out that Daisy specifically said it hasn't changed since she heard about it during the filming of TFA. She never said "it was the same from the very beginning of planning the ST" (she wasn't even around for the 2012-2013 treatments). Pablo said that Rey was a character created and fleshed out through multiple treatments that began with Lucas, but all that really tells us is that he was also intending to focus on a female force sensitive (which we know anyway because that much has been outright stated). It doesn't tell us how similar the finished Rey ended up being to the early treatments, and it also doesn't tell us how much the character or her backstory evolved. I pretty much agree with @Darth Dingbat. Perhaps it never changed, but that still doesn't tell us definitively who she is.

And I'll have to state again that her saying that in no way implies that she is only aware of where her backstory  was whilst she was in production. You do not know what was said to her by who. She only says she was told in production. She could have easily been told that it never changed since the start. But we don't know what was actually said to her do we? Can you tell me?
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@Gemini
We only have her words to go by. If someone has the actual interview I'd like to read it again.

Either way it doesn't tell us who she actually is, and with different interpretations (and guesswork about how the interaction went down), I don't really understand how this is being used as evidence.
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Post by BastilaBey on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:46 am

Me whenever I come to check out this thread

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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:49 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Gemini
Again, I have to point out that Daisy specifically said it hasn't changed since she heard about it during the filming of TFA. She never said "it was the same from the very beginning of planning the ST" (she wasn't even around for the 2012-2013 treatments). Pablo said that Rey was a character created and fleshed out through multiple treatments that began with Lucas, but all that really tells us is that he was also intending to focus on a female force sensitive (which we know anyway because that much has been outright stated). It doesn't tell us how similar the finished Rey ended up being to the early treatments, and it also doesn't tell us how much the character or her backstory evolved. I pretty much agree with @Darth Dingbat. Perhaps it never changed, but that still doesn't tell us definitively who she is.

And I'll have to state again that her saying that in no way implies that she is only aware of where her backstory  was whilst she was in production. You do not know what was said to her by who. She only says she was told in production. She could have easily been told that it never changed since the start. But we don't know what was actually said to her do we? Can you tell me?
@FrolickingFizzgig
@Gemini
We only have her words to go by. If someone has the actual interview I'd like to read it again.

Either way it doesn't tell us who she actually is, and with different interpretations (and guesswork about how the interaction went down), I don't really understand how this is being used as evidence.

Her words do not imply that what she was told was only relevant to where TFA was in production at the point she was told. But I agree we don't know. I could be wrong it's open to interpretation
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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 11:51 am

@BastilaBey wrote:Me whenever I come to check out this thread

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@BastilaBey

No need to feel that way lmao

It's just debate/discussion, nothing personal
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:01 pm

I just don't understand why "what might have been said/what might have been told to Daisy" trumps what Daisy actually said, which was essentially that the story had not changed since she heard it when TFA was being filmed.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:06 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:Me whenever I come to check out this thread

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@BastilaBey

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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:07 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I just don't understand why "what might have been said/what might have been told to Daisy" trumps what Daisy actually said, which was essentially that the story had not changed since she heard it when TFA was being filmed.

It doesnt trump it but then saying that what she says was only relevant to the TFA production stage she was currently in and claiming that she does no know about early stages of production is just interpretation of her words, just like us thinking it means always. It's the same difference.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:22 pm

@Gemini wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I just don't understand why "what might have been said/what might have been told to Daisy" trumps what Daisy actually said, which was essentially that the story had not changed since she heard it when TFA was being filmed.

It doesnt trump it but then saying that what she says was only relevant to the TFA production stage she was currently in and claiming that she does no know about early stages of production is just interpretation of her words, just like us thinking it means always. It's the same difference.
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@Gemini
The two interpretations are not equal though. One involves random twisting/guesswork about exactly how Daisy was told and how much information was shared (i.e. "what if they told Daisy it never changed"), while the other is based on what she actually said. She heard Rey's backstory during the filming of TFA and it hasn't changed since she heard it. I don't even know if I can call that an "interpretation".
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Post by MyOnlyHope on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:23 pm

But didn't Pablo say:

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(The exchange was centred on Rey's backstory. I think the original tweeter deleted her tweets. If anybody can find the originals, that would be great).

I don't know where people are getting the idea that Rey's backstory remained the same throughout TFA's pre-production. We don't know that for a fact just as we don't know that "Lucas would never have created a hero unrelated to any known characters" for a fact.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:27 pm

Here's the part of the interview

so yes folks, she seems to have been told about what it was from the start but again it's open to interpretation. To say quite clearly that it has ALWAYS been the same would imply pretty heavily that it literally means always from the start. Just my interpretation though. This along with evidence from Pablo and JJ etc, all indicate never changed. Her past is not flexible and has been the same since day one.

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:31 pm

@Gemini wrote:Here's the part of the interview

so yes folks, she seems to have been told about what it was from the start but again it's open
To interpretation. To say quite clearly that it has ALWAYS been the same would imply pretty heavily that it literally means always from the start. Just my interpretation though.

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@Gemini
There was another interview that broached this subject (I can't remember which came first), I just can't find it. In the other one she specified that she was told during the filming of TFA and that it hasn't changed since then. I highly doubt she even knows (or cares) about unused treatments or other ideas that were toyed with before she was even hired. We simply do not know, and this is another great example of confirmation bias. You see "it's always been the same" as "it's been the same forever and ever since the character was first created", which is not what it means at all... Daisy played the finished Rey concept and helped flesh out the character further. She played Rey from the script that JJ and Kasdan wrote, not the character from the Lucas treatment or Arndt treatments.


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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:33 pm

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@Gemini

https://twitter.com/totalfilm/status/728528798077968384

This interview is from Total Film Magazine May 6 2016

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Post by Gemini on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:35 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Here's the part of the interview

so yes folks, she seems to have been told about what it was from the start but again it's open
To interpretation. To say quite clearly that it has ALWAYS been the same would imply pretty heavily that it literally means always from the start. Just my interpretation though.

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@Gemini
There was another interview that broached this subject (I can't remember which came first), I just can't find it. In the other one she specified that she was told during the filming of TFA and that it hasn't changed since then. I highly doubt she even knows (or cares) about unused treatments or other ideas that were toyed with before she was even hired. We simply do not know, and this is another great example of confirmation bias. You see "it's always been the same" as "it's been the same forever and ever since the character was first created", which is not what it means at all...
@FrolickingFizzgig

That's fine it's your opinion. I don't think you can tell for sure if she cares or not.

I certainly can't.

I never said its factual it's just my opinion. It would read that way to many, even the magazine seems to have taken that angle but it's all interpretation.

It's also interesting how it's labelled as confirmation bias when basing Rey random on some comments about her backstory not being the defining factor would also be called confirmation bias in that respect.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 12:42 pm

I guess I just have my doubts that Daisy Ridley knows anything about the Lucas treatment. Very few people ever read it, and Daisy Ridley would not have been one of them (likely just higher-ups at Lucasfilm). It was rejected long before she was ever cast.

The part that is extreme confirmation bias IMO is trying to theorize about how/what Daisy was actually told in order to fabricate "evidence". All we know is that she was told during the filming of TFA and it isn't flexible (as in it has not changed). Also, she generally refers to it as a "backstory/background" rather than a "lineage", which I find interesting, but a whole separate topic.
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