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Post by IoJovi on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:28 pm

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I'm not really sure what to make of this tweet. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/772514743407915008 I'm sure some of his previous tweets were posted here but didn't someone say they dated back to before he joined the Lucasfilm story group? Anyway, this is from today.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Hmm. Intriguing!!! bounce
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:41 pm

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I'm not really sure what to make of this tweet. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/772514743407915008 I'm sure some of his previous tweets were posted here but didn't someone say they dated back to before he joined the Lucasfilm story group? Anyway, this is from today.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Interesting. And I find a parallel he used the most interesting part of it.
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Post by Guest on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:43 pm

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I'm not really sure what to make of this tweet. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/772514743407915008 I'm sure some of his previous tweets were posted here but didn't someone say they dated back to before he joined the Lucasfilm story group? Anyway, this is from today.
@Mrs Ben Solo

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Interesting how Reylo, the unspeakable theory that never gets mentioned anywhere officially, is being compared to not just any theory but to the huge "I am your father" reveal from the original trilogy. Wink

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Post by IoJovi on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:47 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I'm not really sure what to make of this tweet. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/772514743407915008 I'm sure some of his previous tweets were posted here but didn't someone say they dated back to before he joined the Lucasfilm story group? Anyway, this is from today.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Interesting. And I find a parallel he used the most interesting part of it.
@Darth_Awakened

That parallel, which became not only the most iconic reveal in movie history, but also ended up being the heart and core of the original trilogy.

It was a reveal that showed Vader and Luke to have a relationship that went beyond just mortal enemies on opposing sides.

And isn't that EXACTLY what Reylo entails?

Headcanon where the reveal of Reylo being the IAmYourFather moment in VIII confirmed!!!!

That tweet is gold.

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Post by MindAndMagic on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:51 pm

Interesting. Smile This is obviously someone who knows what's going on with the actual story. I don't want to sound too optimistic (though I'm pretty sure we're on the right track at this point) and it's not like anyone in production would reveal something so important, but it's a good point nonetheless. I don't think many people would have guessed the twist of ESB in 1977. That's why the plot was so intriguing, emotional and captivating. It suprised the audience and raised the stakes, made the conflict between the dark side and the light personal. It also added another dimention to the villain who must have seemed like a one-dimensional "creature in a mask'' to many people in ANH (does it remind you of anyone?). I agree, the parallel is the most interesting part. As usual, it's not an actual answer, but the way the question is approached is telling. People were suprised back then, it was a new, engaging storyline that made them emotionally invested. The main thing is it was unexpected. Vader being Luke's father was not immediately obvious from AHN, and neither was Anakin and Padme's romance in TPM (at least at first though it wasn't really meant to be a twist). What could be the twist this time... Surely not another ''I am your father reveal'' that everyone expects. The writers are better than this if TFA is anything to go by.


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Post by Guest on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 3:56 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I'm not really sure what to make of this tweet. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/772514743407915008 I'm sure some of his previous tweets were posted here but didn't someone say they dated back to before he joined the Lucasfilm story group? Anyway, this is from today.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Interesting. And I find a parallel he used the most interesting part of it.
@Darth_Awakened

That parallel, which became not only the most iconic reveal in movie history, but also ended up being the heart and core of the original trilogy.

It was a reveal that showed Vader and Luke to have a relationship that went beyond just mortal enemies on opposing sides.

And isn't that EXACTLY what Reylo entails?

Headcanon where the reveal of Reylo being the IAmYourFather moment in VIII confirmed!!!!

That tweet is gold.

@IoJovi

The kiss is going to be epic.

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Post by snufkin on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:02 pm

Thing about that point is that when ESB came out, most people expected a re-hash of Star Wars, the same way most sequels are there to feed audiences what the loved about the original movie and in using a tried/true formula to make more $$$ for the studios. Which ESB threw out the window and instead delivered something which surpassed the already iconic the original. Kind of like how people make comparisons to the Godfather II (which GL had ties to via his friendship with Francis Ford Coppola). But the two main twists, about Luke's (and Leia's) parentage being Vader and that Han and Leia would fall in love were huge twists on what the audience was expecting (old hat) which instead took the story further into epic territory.

Dunno, like I said before I lost interest in Star Wars around age 11-12, didn't pay attention to the ST, and only went to go see TFA after it had been out in theaters for 10 weeks. So I had no preconceived notions about what to expect beyond the spoilers friends had dropped. But with these two characters, I noticed it right away. And immediately thought, that is the "I am your father" /Central Mystery Box to this trilogy.
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Post by Guest on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:03 pm

I asked Pablo about the "Skywalker Special" last night (mainly because I've seen people posting certain pictures of AD from Logan Lucky with the tag "Spoiler for Ep VIII") I know some people here don't mind the idea of Kylo getting a robotic hand/arm, but I'm not one of them. Anyway, PH's answer doesn't rule it out but it's nice to know it's not compulsory https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/772217483008679936

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Post by Guest on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:05 pm

Queen of the Knights wrote:Interesting. Smile This is obviously someone who knows what's going on with the actual story. I don't want to sound too optimistic (though I'm pretty sure we're on the right track at this point) and it's not like anyone in production would reveal something so important, but it's a good point nonetheless. I don't think many people would have guessed the twist of ESB in 1977. That's why the plot was so intriguing, emotional and captivating. It suprised the audience and raised the stakes, made the conflict between the dark side and the light personal. It also added another dimention to the villain who must have seemed like a one-dimensional "creature in a mask'' to many people in ANH (does it remind you of anyone?). I agree, the parallel is the most interesting part. As usual, it's not an actual answer, but the way the question is approached is telling. People were suprised back then, it was a new, engaging storyline that made them emotionally invested. The main thing is it was unexpected. Vader being Luke's father was not immediately obvious from AHN, and neither was Anakin and Padme's romance in TPM (though there were certain hints). What could be the twist this time...

@Queen of the Knights While I agree with most of your points, I wouldn't say Anakin and Padme's romance was that much of a twist for a few reasons. The biggest one is that the marketed the hell out of it in the run-up to Episode II, so everyone knew what to expect going in. Sure the marketing could have been misleading like TFA was, but in this case the outcome of the story was known to the audience, therefore there was very little room to be misleading and present big twists. There was also the case of Anakin and Padme's childhood bond being more in your face with the angel comment and the japor necklace he gave her, along with a lack of any other main female characters so it was pretty much guaranteed to be the romance of that trilogy.


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Post by IoJovi on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:07 pm

@Mrs Ben Solo Thanks for that. I'm not a fan of the Skywalker Special either for Kylo, although I'll accept it if it happens. This tweet gives me a tiny tiny bit of comfort... Laughing
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Post by ZioRen on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:11 pm

@IoJovi wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo Thanks for that. I'm not a fan of the Skywalker Special either for Kylo, although I'll accept it if it happens. This tweet gives me a tiny tiny bit of comfort... Laughing
@IoJovi

You know, I'd accept Kylo getting the Skywalker special. If he got it because he turned against Snoke/in defense of Rey. Wink
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Post by Guest on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:33 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo Thanks for that. I'm not a fan of the Skywalker Special either for Kylo, although I'll accept it if it happens. This tweet gives me a tiny tiny bit of comfort... Laughing
@IoJovi

You know, I'd accept Kylo getting the Skywalker special. If he got it because he turned against Snoke/in defense of Rey. Wink
@ZioRen

If it happens, it happens and I'm sure I'll get over it. Like you say, there are certain circumstances where losing it in service of an heroic act might actually be a good thing for the character. As a military veteran, I'm sure AD would embrace the idea of playing a heroic amputee. I'm certainly in favour of anything that portrays disabled people in a positive light.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 4:55 pm

I actually dismissed for good "Skywalker special" as possibility the other day when @motherofpearl1 wrote an obvious reason why it is not needed at all in ST.
It was an important plot device in OT. Luke literally becoming like his Vader with mechanical hand. And that was a crucial moment in ROTJ when Luke cut off Vader s hand and saw it was mechanical as well.
Luke recognized his own darkness and at that very moment he refused to kill Vader. It is iconic moment of "I am jedi like my father before me".

Cuting of Kylo s limb would mean anything in terms of storytelling.
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Post by Kessel on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 5:19 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo Thanks for that. I'm not a fan of the Skywalker Special either for Kylo, although I'll accept it if it happens. This tweet gives me a tiny tiny bit of comfort... Laughing
@IoJovi

You know, I'd accept Kylo getting the Skywalker special. If he got it because he turned against Snoke/in defense of Rey. Wink
@ZioRen

I hate the idea of Kylo getting any limbs cut off, but I could accept it in a scenario like you've described. In that case, it would be part of his redemption/atonement and proving he's making a change. A turning point toward the light.

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Post by Xylo Ren on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 5:53 pm

WhatGirl wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I'm not really sure what to make of this tweet. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/772514743407915008 I'm sure some of his previous tweets were posted here but didn't someone say they dated back to before he joined the Lucasfilm story group? Anyway, this is from today.
@Mrs Ben Solo

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 6 - Page 6 2e55kw9

Interesting how Reylo, the unspeakable theory that never gets mentioned anywhere officially, is being compared to not just any theory but to the huge "I am your father" reveal from the original trilogy. Wink

Oh gosh, please, please don't use the biggest, most dramatic cinematic reveal about the relationship between the hero/villain, father/son, and central core of the OT as an example of something that's not canon, will never be canon...

Or, please, go right ahead Twisted Evil
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Post by IoJovi on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 5:58 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I'm not really sure what to make of this tweet. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/772514743407915008 I'm sure some of his previous tweets were posted here but didn't someone say they dated back to before he joined the Lucasfilm story group? Anyway, this is from today.
@Mrs Ben Solo

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 6 - Page 6 2e55kw9

Interesting how Reylo, the unspeakable theory that never gets mentioned anywhere officially, is being compared to not just any theory but to the huge "I am your father" reveal from the original trilogy. Wink

Oh gosh, please, please don't use the biggest, most dramatic cinematic reveal about the relationship between the hero/villain, father/son, and central core of the OT as an example of something that's not canon, will never be canon...

Or, please, go right ahead Twisted Evil
@Xylo Ren

Right? That tweet made my absolute freaking day. I was right. Reylo WILL be the IAmYourFather moment of this trilogy. How will it play out exactly is anyone's guess at this point, but my imagination is going in 1000 different directions.
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Post by Lily Snape on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 1:40 am

@IoJovi wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I'm not really sure what to make of this tweet. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/772514743407915008 I'm sure some of his previous tweets were posted here but didn't someone say they dated back to before he joined the Lucasfilm story group? Anyway, this is from today.
@Mrs Ben Solo

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 6 - Page 6 2e55kw9

Interesting how Reylo, the unspeakable theory that never gets mentioned anywhere officially, is being compared to not just any theory but to the huge "I am your father" reveal from the original trilogy. Wink

Oh gosh, please, please don't use the biggest, most dramatic cinematic reveal about the relationship between the hero/villain, father/son, and central core of the OT as an example of something that's not canon, will never be canon...

Or, please, go right ahead Twisted Evil
@Xylo Ren

Right?  That tweet made my absolute freaking day.  I was right.  Reylo WILL be the IAmYourFather moment of this trilogy.  How will it play out exactly is anyone's guess at this point, but my imagination is going in 1000 different directions.
@IoJovi

It seems so obvious to us on this forum-- I walked out of the theater, wondered "Am I the only one seeing this?", Googled "Rey Kylo romance" and found the original ginormous edit, and couldn't believe the amount of disagreement about something that seemed so clear.  But then I was chatting on FB with friends about Star Wars predictions, and a friend with a Ph.D. in History replied, "Nah, great characters, but they're related, and he's going to die."  Being a history person, she's going with what happened in the OT-- based on history, someone has to be related, and the bad guy is going to die.  I was an English major and am enjoying the symbolism, the hints, the character development, the ties to folklore and mythology...  So, yes, he might die (I hope not), but I don't believe they're related, because unlike Luke's adorable little crush on Leia, Kylo has really, very intensely, got it bad.  There was enough UST there that if they turn out to be cousins, people will be rewatching TFA in a few years going "Ew.  Who looks at their cousin like that?"

So, I think it's a twist for most of the GA.  Even the very smart GA, as in this case.  

That said, my then-13-year-old daughter saw TFA before me, and she was delighted when I said, among other things, "So, does anyone else think Kylo has a crush on Rey?  Because once she comes along, he turns from Darth Vader into Darth Boyfriend."  And my son, who was 15:  "Speakimg as a guy-- yes.  He definitely likes her.  Big time."  Then again, they're Star Wars nerds, like their mother before them.   Smile


Last edited by IoJovi on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Reference to other forums)
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Post by vaderito on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 7:41 am

Comparison is super interesting and we know that Storygroup twitters are careful how they word their tweets. Also, "I am your ________" is not going to be the reveal of ST because it's impossible to have the same effect like the first reveal. Leia reveal as the twin didn't have the same effect and isn't even considered a good reveal/development considering unintentional incest. 

SW is a fairytale and in those stories, most important relationship that defines the story and drives it forward is hero(ine)/villain dynamics. Not heroine/OT character unless OT character is the villain who falls in one of 3 villain categories (the Mother, the Father or the Beast). That is NOT the case here. Therefore, Rey/OT character is NOT the relationship that defines ST. Attempts to prove that Rey is Reylated (Soloist, Reywalker) and saying things like that Rey would lose her importance if she wasn't Reylated to Luke are just attempts to give OT characters main character status. Rey wouldn't lose importance if she wasn't Reylated but Luke would. But guess what? He isn't the main character anyway. Nor are Han and Leia. Therefore, Rey's relationship with the main character who is the villain is the most important relationship. And he is not the Mother or the Father. 

Notice that none of Villain/Hero relationships from fairytales/mythology speaks of Brother/Sister and Cousin/Cousin relationship. That's because they are not metaphors for coming of age which is the essence of Monomyth. Coming of age in Hero(ine) Cycle can happen in 2 ways:

Defeating the parent (aka coming our of parent's shadow) as a path to adulthood 

Overcoming the fear of (opposite) sex represented in the form of a beast (primal instinct) and eloping with him as a path to adulthood (this one is almost exclusively part of Heroine Journey)

Brother/Sister and Cousin/Cousin are very rare as main Hero(ine)/Villain relationship and when they happen they have their own set of rules that defer from rules of 3 Main Relationships:

Sibling Rivalry is the driving force, therefore siblings are almost exclusively of the same gender (Sister/Sister, Brother/Brother) aka Other Me That I Don't Need to Compete With

Sibling Rivalry requires that rivalry's developed, therefore siblings always grow up together cause love/hate bond nad competition are crucial for the relationship

Jacen and Jaina were male/female version of Evil Twin off-shot of Sibling Rivalry. I didn't read those books and don't know how successful it was with fraternal twins of different sexes, but this type of relationship is most famously done with identical twins due to obvious metaphorical implications (Evil Me, My Shadow). I do know that EU books are no classics so I'd say experiment didn't catch fire outside of narrow SW fandom and break into culture. But anyway, they grew up together which is mandatory for conflict where Hero(ine) and Villain are siblings.

Ugly Step Sisters are NOT Cinderella's antagonists. It's the Evil Step Mother. Therefore, Cinderella is the Maiden and the Mother story not Sibling Rivalry.

Cousin/Cousin would be an off-shot of sibling rivalry and and therefore plays by sibling rivalry rules - characters must grow up together to develop love/hate/competition bond and relationship as each other's shadows, same gender has much stronger metaphorical value. Basically, this is sibling rivalry with a weaker familial bond. I can't think of any example but Moses/Ramses who grew up as close as brothers even though they were cousins. However, the story itself is hardly about sibling rivalry because each character really represents their respective people (Jews, Egyptians) as well as religions (Monotheism, Polytheism). So the story really wasn't Cousin vs Cousin but macro political level (birth of a new nation/religion, dawn of the old). 

So no matter how many callbacks are pointed out that "prove" Rey is Reylated to Kylo through OT character of choice (Soloist, Reywalker), the story works totally against it. Like, 100%. Because the heroine/villain dynamics is not the Maiden and the ________(insert relative of the questionable metaphorical value) but Beauty and the Beast.

That Kylo is the Beast is established in subtle and not so subtle terms:

He's primal. His Force sound is a purring cat cause that's primal. It's based on an animal. Animal is also called beast.

She calls him a creatchah and a monstah. Creature and monster are other terms for a beast.

They meet in the forest. Beasts live in the forest.

Disney BatB references: "you are my guest", Girl? Girl! Gurrl!, the rose and the bell, Rey theme deferring from Belle theme by 1 note, "it is you", blocking in some scenes

They are laying it real thick.

Finally, villain as the last Skywalker raises the stakes up to high heaven. Will the lineage survive? That question wouldn't be asked and stakes would drop crashing down if there was another Skywalker. In that case, they could've just reveal his/her existence in the first scene cause whether you reveal such character early or later, the result is the same. Stakes diminish cause they know the lineage will be fine.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 7:58 am

@vaderito wrote:Comparison is super interesting and we know that Storygroup twitters are careful how they word their tweets. Also, "I am your ________" is not going to be the reveal of ST because it's impossible to have the same effect like the first reveal. Leia reveal as the twin didn't have the same effect and isn't even considered a good reveal/development considering unintentional incest. 

SW is a fairytale and in those stories, most important relationship that defines the story and drives it forward is hero(ine)/villain dynamics. Not heroine/OT character unless OT character is the villain who falls in one of 3 villain categories (the Mother, the Father or the Beast). That is NOT the case here. Therefore, Rey/OT character is NOT the relationship that defines ST. Attempts to prove that Rey is Reylated (Soloist, Reywalker) and saying things like that Rey would lose her importance if she wasn't Reylated to Luke are just attempts to give OT characters main character status. Rey wouldn't lose importance if she wasn't Reylated but Luke would. But guess what? He isn't the main character anyway. Nor are Han and Leia. Therefore, Rey's relationship with the main character who is the villain is the most important relationship. And he is not the Mother or the Father. 

Notice that none of Villain/Hero relationships from fairytales/mythology speaks of Brother/Sister and Cousin/Cousin relationship. That's because they are not metaphors for coming of age which is the essence of Monomyth. Coming of age in Hero(ine) Cycle can happen in 2 ways:

Defeating the parent (aka coming our of parent's shadow) as a path to adulthood 

Overcoming the fear of (opposite) sex represented in the form of a beast (primal instinct) and eloping with him as a path to adulthood (this one is almost exclusively part of Heroine Journey)

Brother/Sister and Cousin/Cousin are very rare as main Hero(ine)/Villain relationship and when they happen they have their own set of rules that defer from rules of 3 Main Relationships:

Sibling Rivalry is the driving force, therefore siblings are almost exclusively of the same gender (Sister/Sister, Brother/Brother) aka Other Me That I Don't Need to Compete With

Sibling Rivalry requires that rivalry's developed, therefore siblings always grow up together cause love/hate bond nad competition are crucial for the relationship

Jacen and Jaina were male/female version of Evil Twin off-shot of Sibling Rivalry. I didn't read those books and don't know how successful it was with fraternal twins of different sexes, but this type of relationship is most famously done with identical twins due to obvious metaphorical implications (Evil Me, My Shadow). I do know that EU books are no classics so I'd say experiment didn't catch fire outside of narrow SW fandom and break into culture. But anyway, they grew up together which is mandatory for conflict where Hero(ine) and Villain are siblings.

Ugly Step Sisters are NOT Cinderella's antagonists. It's the Evil Step Mother. Therefore, Cinderella is the Maiden and the Mother story not Sibling Rivalry.

Cousin/Cousin would be an off-shot of sibling rivalry and and therefore plays by sibling rivalry rules - characters must grow up together to develop love/hate/competition bond and relationship as each other's shadows, same gender has much stronger metaphorical value. Basically, this is sibling rivalry with a weaker familial bond. I can't think of any example but Moses/Ramses who grew up as close as brothers even though they were cousins. However, the story itself is hardly about sibling rivalry because each character really represents their respective people (Jews, Egyptians) as well as religions (Monotheism, Polytheism). So the story really wasn't Cousin vs Cousin but macro political level (birth of a new nation/religion, dawn of the old). 

So no matter how many callbacks are pointed out that "prove" Rey is Reylated to Kylo through OT character of choice (Soloist, Reywalker), the story works totally against it. Like, 100%. Because the heroine/villain dynamics is not the Maiden and the ________(insert relative of the questionable metaphorical value) but Beauty and the Beast.

That Kylo is the Beast is established in subtle and not so subtle terms:

He's primal. His Force sound is a purring cat cause that's primal. It's based on an animal. Animal is also called beast.

She calls him a creatchah and a monstah. Creature and monster are other terms for a beast.

They meet in the forest. Beasts live in the forest.

Disney BatB references: "you are my guest", Girl? Girl! Gurrl!, the rose and the bell, Rey theme deferring from Belle theme by 1 note, "it is you", blocking in some scenes

They are laying it real thick.

Finally, villain as the last Skywalker raises the stakes up to high heaven. Will the lineage survive? That question wouldn't be asked and stakes would drop crashing down if there was another Skywalker. In that case, they could've just reveal his/her existence in the first scene cause whether you reveal such character early or later, the result is the same. Stakes diminish cause they know the lineage will be fine.
@vaderito

Well said! Also, I'm astonished by some comments on YouTube about Rey and Ren relationship, they want a healthy relationship between finn and rey, forgetting everything about the antihero. So chapter VIII should be called: from Millennium falcon buddies to pillow fight? I'm sorry for these people, who act like the heroine is defenseless and doesn't need character development, but she must overcome her shadow to grow up, it's mandatory to stop hating your designated villain. Do these people know how star wars work? I'm guessing not and they're going to be disappointed, not us, after all.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 8:19 am

What always sticks in my mind is a small scene that might have slipped everyone's memory...
When Finn and Rey are reunited on Starkiller, the first thing he asks her is: "Did he hurt you?"

And she didn't respond........

Everyone says Rey hates Kylo...but I don't think that's entirely the case. She hated him after he killed Han, understandably so. But after she left him disfigured and injured the expression on her face was anything but hate. It looked like shock and even guilt to me.

And although she will act as if she still hates him by the time they meet again and she sees the results of her handiwork on his face I'm pretty sure what she feels will be shame. Kylo's scar isn't so much punishment for him as a reminder to Rey that they are not so different after all.
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Post by vaderito on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 8:32 am

@Maria Antonietta Rey said "we'll see each other again, I believe that" implying that they won't see each other any time soon, because there's nothing else to say from narrative POV. They are even. There's no unfinished business between them, no unspoken words and therefore no urgency to reunite. They are good friends and actually more like a family cause he did for her what her family should have (came back for her). he satisfied her need for family so she can now move on with her life and develop other needs. There's really nowhere to go for them as developing characters but take separate journeys where other people will drive their future development. 

But since there's unfinished business and unspoken words between her and Kylo, no wonder he's flying over to Ahch-to in a hurry and fury to be reunited with the scavenger who left him hanging, while she's thinking about him. It's a narrative logic and dramatic potential that have these 2 characters in the center of Ahch-to plot, while Finn and new female character will form the center of the Resistance plot. 

And now that we are on the subject of "healthy", Finn's compulsive lying and mocking Jakku without any intention to understand why Rey wants to go back are far from healthy. Far.

@motherofpearl1 Rey has every reason to think about Kylo while she has no reason to think about Finn. Finn will be fine. They are friends. There's no conflict. They'll reunite sometime in the future when Rey is done with Luke's training or whatever Luke has in store for her. So nothing to nag her and bug her to re-live their moments and go "I could have done this differently". Unlike Kylo. There's so much in there that makes her think about over and over because it isn't over and she doesn't know how it will end. There's no certainty. Mind dwells on uncertain things.
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Post by jakkusun on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 8:59 am

@vaderito wrote:@Maria Antonietta Rey said "we'll see each other again, I believe that" implying that they won't see each other any time soon, because there's nothing else to say from narrative POV. They are even. There's no unfinished business between them, no unspoken words and therefore no urgency to reunite. They are good friends and actually more like a family cause he did for her what her family should have (came back for her). he satisfied her need for family so she can now move on with her life and develop other needs. There's really nowhere to go for them as developing characters but take separate journeys where other people will drive their future development.
@vaderito

I was actually watching The Fellowship of the Ring the other day and I was struck by the similar ending to The Force Awakens. When Frodo says goodbye to Aragorn it reminded me of when Rey said she and Finn would see each other again. Frodo and Aragorn don't see each other again until the last movie, I believe. I think Rey is like Frodo, who has to go off on her own, with Chewie and R2, though, cause Sam went with Frodo. Finn is still going to be a hero, too, like Aragorn, but probably with a more political war to fight with the the first order, like how Aragorn was fighting the battles alongside Rohan and Gondor armies etc. Frodo had the more isolated, spiritual ring plot, like how Rey has the force plot. Not an exact parallel, of course, but an interesting one. And Aragorn and Frodo were good friends and the two of the main protagonists, too.

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Post by Xylo Ren on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 9:06 am

@vaderito

Great summation and analysis! But don't forget, Maz literally called him a beast as well!

"Those beasts, they're here!" Who dat? Oh, Kylo the face of the First Order.

Really Disney, I gotchu!

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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 10:01 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:What always sticks in my mind is a small scene that might have slipped everyone's memory...
When Finn and Rey are reunited on Starkiller, the first thing he asks her is: "Did he hurt you?"

And she didn't respond........

Everyone says Rey hates Kylo...but I don't think that's entirely the case. She hated him after he killed Han, understandably so. But after she left him disfigured and injured the expression on her face was anything but hate. It looked like shock and even guilt to me.

And although she will act as if she still hates him by the time they meet again and she sees the results of her handiwork on his face I'm pretty sure what she feels will be shame. Kylo's scar isn't so much punishment for him as a reminder to Rey that they are not so different after all.

That is true. Followed by "you wouldn't understand" when he asks about how she escaped. I found that a bit harsh. Not a "I'll explain later" but a "you wouldn't understand" while she's hugging him. Maybe I am over-thinking it but it's not exactly Rey at her nicest. She's pretty much pushing him out of a turning point in her life and of the Force story - for anyone who still thought he was force sensitive at that point. Does not really scream soul mates to me.

@jakkusun

You're right about the parallels between LOTR and TFA. I love Aragorn. I actually even preferred his story to Frodo's story so Finn, here you go, your chance to shine Smile
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