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Post by vaderito on Fri 2 Sep - 21:41

@BastilaBey wrote:@Iojovi IMO, it's further confirmation that there would be nothing to show in an obi-wan spinoff. Clearly he spent his exile sunbathing in the tatooine desert. Explains why he went from youthful Ewan to Alec in just 19 years.
@BastilaBey

There's only one character who's more ancient than Krennic. Ancient... Twisted Evil
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Post by IoJovi on Fri 2 Sep - 21:43

@vaderito wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@Iojovi IMO, it's further confirmation that there would be nothing to show in an obi-wan spinoff. Clearly he spent his exile sunbathing in the tatooine desert. Explains why he went from youthful Ewan to Alec in just 19 years.
@BastilaBey

There's only one character who's more ancient than Krennic. Ancient... Twisted Evil
@vaderito

Chewie? Laughing
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Post by vaderito on Fri 2 Sep - 21:44

@IoJovi wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@Iojovi IMO, it's further confirmation that there would be nothing to show in an obi-wan spinoff. Clearly he spent his exile sunbathing in the tatooine desert. Explains why he went from youthful Ewan to Alec in just 19 years.
@BastilaBey

There's only one character who's more ancient than Krennic. Ancient... Twisted Evil
@vaderito

Chewie? Laughing
@IoJovi

Tree. Duh.

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Post by IoJovi on Fri 2 Sep - 21:53

Alright @Vaderito, you got me! I didn't realize a tree could be an actual character, but in this case I suppose we can make an exception... Smile
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 2 Sep - 22:00

@BastilaBey wrote:@Iojovi IMO, it's further confirmation that there would be nothing to show in an obi-wan spinoff. Clearly he spent his exile sunbathing in the tatooine desert. Explains why he went from youthful Ewan to Alec in just 19 years.
@BastilaBey

Add to that some spicey cocktails (with umbrellas) from Mos Eisley cantina...and you ll get Obi Van in ANH.

lol!
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Post by Gemini on Fri 2 Sep - 23:46

@MyOnlyHope wrote:I'm a little confused by people's response to this tweet. Regardless of any theories pertaining to Krennic being Obi-Wan's son or Rey being Krennic's daughter, Rey could still very well be a Kenobi. No matter what way you look at it, Rey's potential Kenobi lineage is not dependent on some crack theory that Krennik is Obi-Wan and Satine's love-child. It's not dependent on whether or not we can scour the history of Star Wars and come up with a perfect and seamless lineage for Rey. All the theorizing that's gone into the Rey Kenobi theory could be way off base and Rey could still be a Kenobi! The way I see it, it's best to keep one's mind as open as possible when it comes to making predictions surrounding the ST. It's unrealistic for anybody to expect all of their theories to be verified. Fighting for every little theory just isn't worth it...
@MyOnlyHope

I dunno, Pablo keeps pushing random. Even here he did when I think about it and look again at that whole "could be dude on the right" comment. Suggesting that parents are no one of major importance. Just random peeps

I think I'm off the Rey kenobi theory now. I think Pablo is annoyed at the mystery box because she is actually a random and the box is suggesting she's something more. Pablo knows she's not it seems.
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Post by BastilaBey on Fri 2 Sep - 23:58

@Gemini I don't think this debunks Reynobi but you may be right about Pablo encouraging people to think 'random'. And I think the word 'random' puts a lot of people off the idea, because they might assume it means Rey's parentage - or what happened to them - isn't important. It will be, but perhaps for reasons we can't guess now. Because it's relevant to the actual story of the ST, and we'll learn as Rey does.
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Post by Gemini on Sat 3 Sep - 0:10

I was wrong I think, I'm off it.

But purely from cinematic perspective and sequence of shots, still think whatever he held originally in that rain scene is/once was the answer to who she is. It could be a completely new and random object linked to her. The answer I think  is there in that scene but it's just not clear what he's holding and Pablo won't divulge in what that item was/is because it makes him see Rey like she saw him.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 3 Sep - 0:16

@Gemini wrote:
@MyOnlyHope wrote:I'm a little confused by people's response to this tweet. Regardless of any theories pertaining to Krennic being Obi-Wan's son or Rey being Krennic's daughter, Rey could still very well be a Kenobi. No matter what way you look at it, Rey's potential Kenobi lineage is not dependent on some crack theory that Krennik is Obi-Wan and Satine's love-child. It's not dependent on whether or not we can scour the history of Star Wars and come up with a perfect and seamless lineage for Rey. All the theorizing that's gone into the Rey Kenobi theory could be way off base and Rey could still be a Kenobi! The way I see it, it's best to keep one's mind as open as possible when it comes to making predictions surrounding the ST. It's unrealistic for anybody to expect all of their theories to be verified. Fighting for every little theory just isn't worth it...
@MyOnlyHope

I dunno, Pablo keeps pushing random. Even here he did when I think about it and look again at that whole "could be dude on the right" comment. Suggesting that parents are no one of major importance. Just random peeps

I think I'm off the Rey kenobi theory now. I think Pablo is annoyed at the mystery box because she is actually a random and the box is suggesting she's something more. Pablo knows she's not it seems.
@Gemini

I think Pablo is pushing random not because she's "random" or not (that's not Pablo's business to reveal) but because he's trying to imply there's nothing in the story yet to connect her to any particular parentage. She may turn out to be anything - well, anything other than a Solo or a Skywalker - but from Pablo I get the sense that he's frustrated because people are excavating for "evidence" in a story that offers none.

I could be totally wrong, of coure. And I do consider that something of a flaw in TFA, if that's the case. Mysteries are a bit pointless if there is no trail of breadcrumbs at all - of course the clues shouldn't enable people to guess the right answer beforehand, but there should be enough for an "a-ha!" moment once the answer finally comes. It's a difficult balance, but great mystery writers do manage to pull this off time and again.

It does seem a bit silly that people are encouraged to speculate, but told that speculation is pointless. So to speak.
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Post by Guest on Sat 3 Sep - 0:59

I would have placed Krennic at around 50 years of age but I'm shocked he's older than Obi-Wan!!! Maybe if we'd seen Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan after 19 years in the desert the contrast wouldn't seem so sharp. But picturing Sir Alec Guinness in his dotage does make you wonder about Rey. If she'd stayed on Jakku for much longer, she would have looked older than Maz and where would Reylo have been then?! Razz

As for theories on Rey's parentage or anything else, I don't think anything like that should need forensic excavation to support it. The general audience and the target audience (kids) will rightly feel cheated if they can't join the dots. Pablo tweeted something recently along the lines of saying that people shouldn't have to study the movies to enjoy them. I know we hardcore fans do it, and I'm not saying Star Wars is all surface and there's nothing deeper, but I do wonder how much of what we've discussed here will actually count for anything in the long run.

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Post by IoJovi on Sat 3 Sep - 1:18

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I would have placed Krennic at around 50 years of age but I'm shocked he's older than Obi-Wan!!! Maybe if we'd seen Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan after 19 years in the desert the contrast wouldn't seem so sharp. But picturing Sir Alec Guinness in his dotage does make you wonder about Rey. If she'd stayed on Jakku for much longer, she would have looked older than Maz and where would Reylo have been then?! Razz

As for theories on Rey's parentage or anything else, I don't think anything like that should need forensic excavation to support it. The general audience and the target audience (kids) will rightly feel cheated if they can't join the dots. Pablo tweeted something recently along the lines of saying that people shouldn't have to study the movies to enjoy them. I know we hardcore fans do it, and I'm not saying Star Wars is all surface and there's nothing deeper, but I do wonder how much of what we've discussed here will actually count for anything in the long run.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I think it will continue to be both. Symbolism like yin yang in association with Reylo will always be there, yet an audience member won't need a degree in Taoism to understand the film. I'm sure some of our metas will be spot on, but I don't anticipate every single essay written on the subject to be 100℅ accurate. I've read some here and in other places that I personally find to be far reaching, but that doesn't diminish their intellectual value and they're still entertaining to read.
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Post by Guest on Sat 3 Sep - 1:53

I didn't mean that the meta and speculation/theories have no merit @IoJovi I've enjoyed reading many of them and have learned a lot. I'm grateful to everyone who's taken the time to write them. If nothing else, it's lots of fun to speculate. But if people get so invested that it hurts them when things don't pan out, that's not so good. I know we'll all be crushed to varying degrees if Reylo doesn't pan out the way any of us envisaged it. I hope we won't have to suffer that disappointment.

I'm also a bit sceptical about how much depth JJ Abrams intended with certain things. I know the blame for Lost can't be laid entirely at his door, but it does illustrate my concerns. From all we've heard about JJ, he does tend to get carried away at times because he thinks stuff is "cool". I know he also reined himself in over it at times (Ashgate, anyone?!) But that's a problem I had with Lost. I think they put a lot of stuff in that came from "cool ideas" without underpinning them in the story as a whole. I'm much more confident about Rian Johnson's potential to imbue Ep 8 with meaning. We've already heard about a variety of things that have influenced him from old movies to Bly and Jung. Maybe I'm doing JJ a disservice, and TFA will stand up to the scrutiny in retrospect. Time will tell!

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Post by IoJovi on Sat 3 Sep - 2:01

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I didn't mean that the meta and speculation/theories have no merit @IoJovi I've enjoyed reading many of them and have learned a lot. I'm grateful to everyone who's taken the time to write them. If nothing else, it's lots of fun to speculate. But if people get so invested that it hurts them when things don't pan out, that's not so good. I know we'll all be crushed to varying degrees if Reylo doesn't pan out the way any of us envisaged it. I hope we won't have to suffer that disappointment.

I'm also a bit sceptical about how much depth JJ Abrams intended with certain things. I know the blame for Lost can't be laid entirely at his door, but it does illustrate my concerns. From all we've heard about JJ, he does tend to get carried away at times because he thinks stuff is "cool". I know he also reined himself in over it at times (Ashgate, anyone?!) But that's a problem I had with Lost. I think they put a lot of stuff in that came from "cool ideas" without underpinning them in the story as a whole. I'm much more confident about Rian Johnson's potential to imbue Ep 8 with meaning. We've already heard about a variety of things that have influenced him from old movies to Bly and Jung. Maybe I'm doing JJ a disservice, and TFA will stand up to the scrutiny in retrospect. Time will tell!
@Mrs Ben Solo

No, TFA isn't perfect, but it's captivating nonetheless.  And really, that's what I want from a story.  A film can be absolutely perfection (free of plot holes, historically accurate etc.) and also be as gripping as a door nail.  I know which one I'd rather watch.

As far as the mystery box goes, I might be in the minority, but I don't mind it a bit.  It leaves so much to the imagination your mind can go anywhere.  Theres 8000 different directions of where this story can go.  I don't even mind the Reywalker misdirection.  The fantasy football like aspect of this fandom where youre rooting for a certain side is actually fun for me (as long as it doesn't it doesn't get biting, which unfortunately I've seen happen).  Of course, being on the winning side time and time again after nine months definitely helps keep my heart in it... Smile
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Post by BastilaBey on Sat 3 Sep - 2:05

@Mrs Ben Solo I get your point about Lost but this is a trilogy that will have had a predetermined outcome, even as all the little details are still in flux. The fundamental dynamic between Rey and Kylo, along with foreshadowing about Kylo's redemption and how he felt after killing Han is enough to tell me where things are going. It doesn't really matter how 'romantic' or 'platonic' or whatever that is. They'll reach an understanding, somehow. Rey has to integrate with the shadow and all Smile
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Post by creepi0 on Sat 3 Sep - 4:53

@BastilaBey wrote:@Iojovi IMO, it's further confirmation that there would be nothing to show in an obi-wan spinoff. Clearly he spent his exile sunbathing in the tatooine desert. Explains why he went from youthful Ewan to Alec in just 19 years.
@BastilaBey

Not just Obi-wan, Almost everyone (Anakin,Owen and Beru) age horrifically. It more like 40 year have passed.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sat 3 Sep - 5:07

Wow, I'm surprised that Krennic is older than Obi-Wan as well. But, I guess if I'm being honest, Obi-Wan's age is one of those things that was probably retconned by Lucas for the sake of the PT. He wanted him to be a young 20-something Padawan who takes a younger boy under his wing. The vibe I got from the OT was that he was meant to be an old wizard kind of character, so I was very surprised to find out that he was only 57 in ANH.

Anyway, what others have said is quite true. This theory being squashed does not mean a definitive "no" to Rey Kenobi. We'll know when we know.


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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sat 3 Sep - 5:25

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I would have placed Krennic at around 50 years of age but I'm shocked he's older than Obi-Wan!!! Maybe if we'd seen Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan after 19 years in the desert the contrast wouldn't seem so sharp. But picturing Sir Alec Guinness in his dotage does make you wonder about Rey. If she'd stayed on Jakku for much longer, she would have looked older than Maz and where would Reylo have been then?! Razz

As for theories on Rey's parentage or anything else, I don't think anything like that should need forensic excavation to support it. The general audience and the target audience (kids) will rightly feel cheated if they can't join the dots. Pablo tweeted something recently along the lines of saying that people shouldn't have to study the movies to enjoy them. I know we hardcore fans do it, and I'm not saying Star Wars is all surface and there's nothing deeper, but I do wonder how much of what we've discussed here will actually count for anything in the long run.
@Mrs Ben Solo
A lot of the things that have been discussed here won't be addressed in the long run, and I really think there is vast over-complication of the film in general. Most of the time what you see is really what you get, and I think that's really the beauty in the whole Rey/Kylo dynamic. It's very simple. It's comes from visuals, dialogue, characterization, music, etc. It isn't a theory based on theories like Reywalker or Snoke/Plagieus, it's a theory based on the film itself. I can't say I've seen a whole lot of those floating around, even this long after TFA's release. Our predictions are not based on a bunch of "okay, but what ifs". They're based on the way characters interact, look at each other and talk to each other in the actual movie. And of course there's nothing "romantic" right now. Of course Rey hates Kylo. But core characters don't remain the same over the course of a story. They evolve, and I think our major theory takes that into account as well, not to mention SW's genre and target-audience. The whole idea is simple, the evidence behind it is equally simple (you just have to be willing to accept that sometimes the simplest answer is the right one).
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Post by ZioRen on Sat 3 Sep - 5:49

@BastilaBey wrote:@Gemini I don't think this debunks Reynobi but you may be right about Pablo encouraging people to think 'random'. And I think the word 'random' puts a lot of people off the idea, because they might assume it means Rey's parentage - or what happened to them - isn't important. It will be, but perhaps for reasons we can't guess now. Because it's relevant to the actual story of the ST, and we'll learn as Rey does.
@BastilaBey

I think that what happened to Rey's parents that caused her to be left on Jakku will be more important than who they were. Unless they were dark siders, in which case it's still not really about who they are but more about Rey overcoming that lineage.
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Post by snufkin on Sat 3 Sep - 5:57

The hedging of bets about what will happen on this forum always makes me wonder if there's any correlation at all to our belief to our nationality. Or at least everybody I know who's British always points out "you're being wildly overoptimistic about that because you're American." Just wondering if that holds true for beliefs of how far things will pan out with the ST.

Poor Obi Wan in the desert as a broke hermit, he couldn't afford sunscreen. That's some pretty harsh living conditions that will age you fast, especially after the heart break he's been through.  Him getting old fast is like how the woman sitting across from Rey at the scrubbing tables as "this will be your fate if you continue to stay here waiting in vain". She was probably not an eldery woman and relatively young - just had aged quickly thanks to Niima's harsh living conditions.

IDK - there are definitely Obi Wan easter eggs everywhere in TFA, so I've wondered if it's supposed to mean a direct connection to her, a winking reference to the character, or that he's the Fairy Godfather of the Force called into action because both his protege and his namesake have screwed up so badly. Only way he could've fathered any kids in between the PT and OT would be if there was a sperm bank at Mos Eisley that he visited when needed money. Otherwise I tend to think of Rey having a back story like Mako Mori in Pacific Rim or Tanya Komarova in Dr. Zhivago -- whatever Snoke was doing in the shadows resulted in her abandonment and her parents' disappearance/likely murder.


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Post by Lily Snape on Sat 3 Sep - 7:00

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I would have placed Krennic at around 50 years of age but I'm shocked he's older than Obi-Wan!!! Maybe if we'd seen Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan after 19 years in the desert the contrast wouldn't seem so sharp. But picturing Sir Alec Guinness in his dotage does make you wonder about Rey. If she'd stayed on Jakku for much longer, she would have looked older than Maz and where would Reylo have been then?! Razz

As for theories on Rey's parentage or anything else, I don't think anything like that should need forensic excavation to support it. The general audience and the target audience (kids) will rightly feel cheated if they can't join the dots. Pablo tweeted something recently along the lines of saying that people shouldn't have to study the movies to enjoy them. I know we hardcore fans do it, and I'm not saying Star Wars is all surface and there's nothing deeper, but I do wonder how much of what we've discussed here will actually count for anything in the long run.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I think it's just the willing suspension of disbelief thing for films. I mean, Alan Rickman was JKR's top pick for Snape even though Snape is described as short, slight, "a slip of a man," and Rickman was a well-built 6'1". And I'm guessing he was 63 when he filmed The Deathly Hallows, playing the death scene of a character who died at 38-- 25 years younger than the actor. Oh, and he played his character as a 21-year-old also-- one-third the age of the actor. But he captured the essence of the character so well-- it's hard to imagine anyone else in the role (including Tim Roth, who fit the build and age better and was the directors' first pick). One of those things I just let go. I'm the same with the GFFA. Smile
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Post by Gemini on Sat 3 Sep - 8:34

You're right about there should not be excavation to see who she is. I would never have thought she was a kenobi unless I thought it was somewhat pretty clear. Originally I saw kenobi immediately, first time watching. Went in there thinking random, came out thinking kenobi based mainly off of film language. There just appears to be a lot of it just on the surface.

Not so sure anymore though. Pablo is certainly pushing random a lot. Almost every tweet when he's asked about parentage. He's trying to push random. I just wonder why he would be doing this before the episode 8 plot comes out?  (Also Daisy even started heavily pushing random around the exact same time as Pablo)

Is he trying to soften the blow that the person built up as a secret someone through the use of dialogue, mystery box, narrative structure (orphan trope where they turn out to be hero blood) is a nobody? It's probably Likely. He seems irritated at the build up, why would you be irritated by it unless you knew the answer does not live up to the hype? Leads me to think random.

Trying to throw off the scent? Dunno, not likely.

He has never flat out debunked Rey kenobi. It's the one of the big 3 which he/the cast/director has never debunked. I've seen questions about Rey kenobi thrown at him even back when he was debunking parentage theories and there's just no clear debunk of it. Same goes for Reylo. He's pretty much hinted/debunked who are not genuine pairings but never flat out debunks we reylo.

Color me confused man.

Seriously lol

I'm struggling to see where he could have had a child in the time line though. In canon it can only be in the clone wars really.
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Post by CienaRee on Sat 3 Sep - 12:05

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Wow, I'm surprised that Krennic is older than Obi-Wan as well. But, I guess if I'm being honest, Obi-Wan's age is one of those things that was probably retconned by Lucas for the sake of the PT. He wanted him to be a young 20-something Padawan who takes a younger boy under his wing. The vibe I got from the OT was that he was meant to be an old wizard kind of character, so I was very surprised to find out that he was only 57 in ANH.

Anyway, what others have said is quite true. This theory being squashed does not mean a definitive "no" to Rey Kenobi. We'll know when we know.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I read that originally Lucas wanted the Clone Wars to have have spanned longer than 3 years so Obi Wan was suppose to be around 60- 80 years old originally which  kind of makes sense  since he and Luke's father (which wasn't suppose to be Vader) were friends who fought together in the war while Vader was then only his apprentice plust Qui Gohn wasn't supposed to exist originally so he wou;d have also been older than he ended up being in TPM.
But yeah,I'm surprised Krennic's older than Obi Wan.I expected him to be in his 40s at the very least.

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Post by Little_Boots on Sat 3 Sep - 12:28

That Krennic guy doesn't look that old to be honest. He looks like he is in his late 40s..... Or else...... I'm just silly.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 3 Sep - 12:31

@Little_Boots wrote:That Krennic guy doesn't look that old to be honest. He looks like he is in his late 40s..... Or else...... I'm just silly.
@Little_Boots

It's definitely not just you. Mendelsohn doesn't even look old for his age.
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Post by Little_Boots on Sat 3 Sep - 12:37

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Little_Boots wrote:That Krennic guy doesn't look that old to be honest. He looks like he is in his late 40s..... Or else...... I'm just silly.
@Little_Boots

It's definitely not just you. Mendelsohn doesn't even look old for his age.
@Darth Dingbat

He's around 47 or something. Obi-Wan is younger than my mother :O lol
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