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Post by CienaRee on Mon 19 Sep - 3:13

@SanghaRen wrote:@snufkin
Regarding how Han recognized Ben under Kylo's costume, I think that Pablo was asked about it and answered that there was still a story to be told about how Ben became Kylo. So it seems as though it will be explained. I think Han might have seen him do something nasty in costume and something happened like mask went off or Kylo said something and he recognized his son. Since it seems that he hasn't seen his son in ages, it's probably the second option, Kylo saying something. That might explain also why he's more eager to say that they lost their son forever, while Leia is still seeing him in a better light.

@FrolickingFizzgig
Did Pablo really say he wished that novelizations did not exist? I did not see those tweets. I also wish they never existed and I never bought them.

@jakkusun
My 2 cents on Ben "going back" as if nothing happened. I also do not want Sunshine!Ben to appear out of the blue. There is no Sunshine!Ben imo possible. However, there is a big difference between atoning for your sins in front of the whole freaky Galaxy that will happily tear you appart - because that's how people are, they always need someone to shame or criticize hence the popularity of gossip magazines and "reality" TV - and atoning with it from a more personal standpoint. I personally don't believe in public shaming especially when someone really wants to atone because when everyone is on your back, how can you actually really atone? So as much as I don't see Ben fully coming back to a regular life - does he really need to go back to public life anyway? -, I also do not see how, if he is ready to atone, it will be of any use to anyone to do that in front of billions of people. Call me a cynic but I don't have much faith in people's ability to forgive or feel compassion. Individually maybe but as a group, humans tend to turn to bickering. I read somewhere that when you have too many chickens in a small place, they usually pick one to torment as a group. If you take that one away, they find a new one. I don't know if it's true and I hope I am not now making chickens unlikeable - they are amongst the most tormented animals on the planet so it's really not my goal - but my first thought was that it really sounded like humans. I think it has to do with stress and letting the steam out. I am also no fan of exile. What good is it if a guy went through and overcame all the struggles between Light and Dark, can help others with the same struggles but is sent to repent somewhere alone? But these are just personal thoughts. I also have no idea how they would/will play that one.

@SanghaRen

I completly agree with you especially the bolded.I know some people might think this will reek too much of Luke and Leia keeping Vader's identity as a secret but honestly Im not sure they will have other choices.If Leia being Vader's daughter is to be taken as an example people will most likley want to crucify Kylo for what he's done.I know it sounds great and selfless for Kylo to reveal who he is but what will he accomplish by that?Yes,he won't have to live in a lie but he will also loose whatever opportunity he has to atone for what he's done because at the end of the day redemption is something Kylo has to seek because he wants to help people instead of wanting forgivness from them which he most likely won't get.If he felt alone and misundertsood before it would be even worse if the truth gets out not to mention the conseqinces it could have on his family.Maybe they could have got away with it if it wasn't reveleaed that Anakin and Vader were the same person and Luke and Leia were his children but this happening a second time now with Ben Solo?Any hope of Leia returning to her political career or Luke establishing a new order would be slim to none because people will get the idea that it's in the nature of the Skywalkers to be evil. We also have the keep in mind  the effect  it could have on Kylo and Rey's possible children and the future  Skywalker generations.
So I think it comes down to whether Kylo wants to live in a life of truth and be shunned down no matter what good he tries to do or live in a lie and atone for what he's done.


Last edited by CienaRee on Mon 19 Sep - 3:19; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 19 Sep - 3:16

@Saracene wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:I have been thinking about something guys. I admit my tendency to live under the stone, but:
Do any of you know or remeber any other movie that provoked such contradictory and extremly opposite reactions as TFA among the fans on the internet?
Sometimes I have a starnge feeling that there was 2 completely different movies with same characters and action shown in the theatres. lol!
I mean what s in that movie so ambiguous  to provoke different interpretations or the problem is in the fandom itself?
@Darth_Awakened


I can think of movies that polarised the internet (Prometheus comes to mind), but I can't think of a movie where the reactions made me feel like people watched two completely different stories.

I think that it's due to a couple of factors: because SW is a long-running series people came into TFA with a sithload of pre-conceived ideas, and SW is also rather unique in that it's a multi-generation series about the same family. I can't really think of any other series that's a family saga in the same way, off the top of my head. And there's also of course JJ's mystery boxing, and the fact that TFA feels more like a third of a movie than a proper self-contained film.
@Saracene

Yep. The bolded is the thing I found the most interesting part of it. Almost in every franchise there are different opinons and different interpretations - however I have never seen such extremes so far.
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Post by Gemini on Mon 19 Sep - 3:36

Really don't think it would naturally make people see 2 completely different stories

It's just people who want for things to happen so they interpret the story to match what they want to happen m, Reywalker for example works better if Ren is evil and rey takes up the mantle and saves her family like Luke did.

General audience for example, just see it as its left, which is up in the air
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 19 Sep - 4:17

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@jakkusun wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 6 - Page 39 Screen11
Nice question, @Mrs Ben Solo! I actually feel kinda silly for not piecing this together before. It also makes the possibility of Ben being welcomed back to the fold (you know, as opposed to the galaxy collectively trying him for war crimes and demanding his head on a spike) much more feasible. If everyone assumes he disappeared with Luke, very few know Ben is Kylo. Ben redeems himself and returns home as Ben, no one knows the difference. He may choose exile of his own volition, but he can come and go without issue.
@MeadowofAshes

This gives room for some delicious conflict.

Rey and Leia: come home with us as Ben. Nobody has to know what you've done

Kylo: I cannot allow myself to live as if I've done nothing. As if I was never Kylo Ren. The guilt might as well kill me. *sulks into self-imposed exile*
@Rei of Sunshine

I don't think this will be a popular opinion, but it's really bothering me, so I think I really just need to say this and get it over with.

There certainly would be a lot of conflict in this ending scenario, to me. I can't get past the feeling that Kylo trying to pretend to be who he was before all this happened is going to be regressive, empty, and dishonest to himself and others. Just as bad as Kylo trying to resist the pull to the light, I think.

I see that you are all saying Kylo probably won't go for it, and might choose exile anyway, but I don't really think Leia or Rey or anyone else would go for this scenario either. Wouldn't Leia and Rey want to be more genuine about it and not force Kylo back into the old Ben? I guess they could still make mistakes and make the story interesting, then.

It's not like I have any better solutions for how the story should end, but this would be, in my opinion, a bittersweet and rather controversial ending with the audience. (All the Kylo haters will be Furious about him getting off easy, in their eyes, I bet, if people just accept him as a completely innocent Ben Solo)

Hmm well I think maybe it might be better for Kylo to get a whole new identity, not one people associate with Kylo, but also not his old identity as Ben, so he could start fresh and find his own path? Rather than forcing himself to play either of the roles, Ben or Kylo, that he never felt right in, he could integrate them both into a new, more whole, person and move forward from there? If the Galaxy still didn't know who he was, sure it'd be dishonest but maybe he'd be being more honest to himself?

And maybe he shouldn't worry about the Galaxy welcoming him home as Ben. He could just be someone new?  Because I think he will be someone new, anyway, after all of this. Maybe that's cause I also believe it won't be black-and-white Kylo returning to the light. I was thinking more along the lines of the Jungian shadow stuff, where you incorporate the shadow, rather than trying to deny it, etc. and that he will learn to use both dark and light sides of the force in a way that works for him. Idk it probably wouldn't really work, I know, since I have no idea how it would actually play out. I get that. It makes sense that maybe they need to go for an easier scenario.

But also, even though these tweets say the galaxy assumed Ben was missing, after TFA, Rey, Finn, and a bunch of stormtroopers know that Kylo is the son of Han and Leia. Realistically, couldn't the Galaxy learn the truth at some point, especially with all the by-standing stormtroopers who are likely to gossip? (Okay maybe all those troopers actually died) But didn't Bloodline kind of show how you can't keep a dirty family secret a secret forever, and it's never for the best and seems to make things worse the longer you try to keep it secret? Isn't it better to face these things head-on? Somehow?

I don't know. I hate to rain on anyone's party with my own personal doubts with and distaste for this scenario, so just please feel free to disregard all this if you think I'm overthinking this or letting my personal feelings interfere too much or that I have unrealistic expectations or that I'm looking at all this as more extreme than was intended. All of that is probably the case, really.

Well, even if it does end like this, like you say, there will be conflict and angst. It won't be a happy ending at all really, in my opinion, since I feel like Kylo would just feel more trapped than he ever had been before. But it could certainly set up for future stories. That's true. And maybe Kasdan really wants that bittersweet ending he didn't get to have with ROTJ. But, man, the secrets and dishonesty and the trying to revert Kylo back to Ben doesn't sit well with me at all and seems too much like what Luke tried to do with Vader in Bloodline (which I thought was supposed to have been a mistake after all--trying to pretend Vader was a different person and hiding their relation and all that) so I can't really be happy about this, even if the story that will follow might intrigue me. Oh well. I feel better speaking my mind on the matter, at least.
@jakkusun

I don't mind different opinions lol. This came up off of the top of my head anyways.

It's not the conclusiom I see. But I expect this kind of conflict to happen. Because Rey and Leia, should they really want him back desperately, there will be a chance that they might say something like this. And Kylo ofc would be very self incriminating and I see him having a reaction like that.

I actually agree with what you've said. Every decision to be made about Kylo won't be easy. There will be decisions made on Leia and Rey's side and Kylo's own and they will most likely disagree on a certain level.

But I really love @FrolickingFizzgig 's idea of Kylo outing himself.

It's a really romantic and heroic idea and show's how Kylo will fully renounce the FO and Snoke, and will take full responsibility.
@Rei of Sunshine

The problem with Kylo 'outing' himself is the Hosnian system's destruction. No one knows he was against it,and even if they forgive him for Lor San Tekka, the villagers and Han, the mass slaughter of an entire planetary system is a very different matter.

His only chance is for Rey to sense his opposition to it through their connection, but will anyone believe her? And as Leia is his mother, they'll say her judgement is coloured.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 19 Sep - 4:32

@Saracene wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:I have been thinking about something guys. I admit my tendency to live under the stone, but:
Do any of you know or remeber any other movie that provoked such contradictory and extremly opposite reactions as TFA among the fans on the internet?
Sometimes I have a starnge feeling that there was 2 completely different movies with same characters and action shown in the theatres. lol!
I mean what s in that movie so ambiguous  to provoke different interpretations or the problem is in the fandom itself?
@Darth_Awakened


I can think of movies that polarised the internet (Prometheus comes to mind), but I can't think of a movie where the reactions made me feel like people watched two completely different stories.

I think that it's due to a couple of factors: because SW is a long-running series people came into TFA with a sithload of pre-conceived ideas, and SW is also rather unique in that it's a multi-generation series about the same family. I can't really think of any other series that's a family saga in the same way, off the top of my head. And there's also of course JJ's mystery boxing, and the fact that TFA feels more like a third of a movie than a proper self-contained film.
@Saracene

All of this, but I think it's the audience as much as the film. I feel like there's a perfect storm of discord right now - there's hardly any issue out there that doesn't polarise public opinion dramatically, and that sense of discord seems to be growing all the time. Everybody's angry, and nobody's listening: that's what it feels like right now, whether we're talking about politics or religion, or matters of taste in fiction or opinions on celebrities' tweets. Everything is a problem. Everything is a tempest waiting to happen.

I honestly think a few years have made a big difference. Had TFA come out in 2012 - when they first started planning - or in 2013 - when it was actually developed - the reactions would likely have been very different. Had TFA been released back in 2008 or so, the reception would definitely have been VERY different.

Kylo would still have been polarising and the mystery box would still have caused debates, especially among hardcore fans, but I don't think the variety and polarity of reactions would have been so overwhelmingly... weird. And aggressive. Because the current climate is all in all much more "weird and aggressive".

I blame LF and JJ for the "mystery box" overkill, but in some ways it almost feels like LF/Disney were surprisingly... naive? Almost? Like the casting - the cast is great and I wouldn't change anyone in it, but they really should have foreseen that setting up a black man vs. a white man potential "love triangle" (even if FinnRey wasn't played as a romance, it was still romantic bait) and using the black man as "Jedi bait" in marketing would lead to problems, especially so in today's climate. They also should have realised that dangling the Reywalker bait would overshadow the actual story they're trying to tell. It doesn't encourage speculation, but kills all other avenues of speculation, and every Reywalker who becomes more entrenched in their beliefs is just likely to be disappointed by the real story. Even the GA members who don't really care whether Rey is a Skywalker or not and haven't followed any fandom controversies, but assume that she is Luke's daughter, will be all "huh?" and will have to adjust to the fact that they didn't really understand TFA and are now watching a completely "new" story.

But, yeah. In spite of this I do think the polarised reactions happened because the public at large is in a weird mental space right now. The Great Fandom Wars of 2016 are just a small symptom of a much bigger malaise. As long as the malaise doesn't lead to WW3, we'll be lucky. Nope
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 19 Sep - 5:31

@Darth Dingbat
No matters how depressing and pessimistic your post could look - but saddly I have to agree: our times are times of problems, hysterical reactions all around.
It seems to me that we are living in time of an ultimate paradox - the general pressure for achivement of the absolute tolerance towards everything led to the high level of growing intolerance.
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Post by ZioRen on Mon 19 Sep - 5:48

@Darth Dingbat

All of this is so sadly true. Everything these days is a callout waiting to happen. We're in the strange age of intense political correctness and extreme desire to be offended, and a relentless attack culture that goes along with it. Everyone's this trembling bear trap ready to snap closed at the slightest provocation. Kylo came at just the right time when some people would despise him for the "real life people" they think he represents. And of course, the time of overwhelming "abuse" and "if you don't like 'x' and like 'y' then you're a racist" discourse within fandom (which is hardly just limited to Star Wars).

I agree that someone within Lucasfilm should have been a little more aware of the climate when it came to how they set up the story and especially how they advertised it. You just can't do those kinds of things with a non-white male character anymore. And maybe I'm being naive too, but I just hope all of this has died down a little by the time IX comes out. Because as much as I want to think nobody would care, I have this bad feeling that canon Reylo will open a whole other Pandora's box. All it takes is small amount of people screaming through the media for something to become a "thing".

To switch gears over to the discussion of Kylo's "redemption" ending, honestly I can't see any other ending but exile (self-imposed or otherwise), with him possibly traveling around trying to atone. Everything else is getting off too easy or just plain doesn't seem to fit. Plus it opens up huge avenues for supplementary media like future comics.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 19 Sep - 5:59

@ZioRen wrote:@Darth Dingbat

All of this is so sadly true. Everything these days is a callout waiting to happen. We're in the strange age of intense political correctness and extreme desire to be offended, and a relentless attack culture that goes along with it. Everyone's this trembling bear trap ready to snap closed at the slightest provocation. Kylo came at just the right time when some people would despise him for the "real life people" they think he represents. And of course, the time of overwhelming "abuse" and "if you don't like 'x' and like 'y' then you're a racist" discourse within fandom (which is hardly just limited to Star Wars).

I agree that someone within Lucasfilm should have been a little more aware of the climate when it came to how they set up the story and especially how they advertised it. You just can't do those kinds of things with a non-white male character anymore. And maybe I'm being naive too, but I just hope all of this has died down a little by the time IX comes out. Because as much as I want to think nobody would care, I have this bad feeling that canon Reylo will open a whole other Pandora's box. All it takes is small amount of people screaming through the media for something to become a "thing".

To switch gears over to the discussion of Kylo's "redemption" ending, honestly I can't see any other ending but exile (self-imposed or otherwise), with him possibly traveling around trying to atone. Everything else is getting off too easy or just plain doesn't seem to fit. Plus it opens up huge avenues for supplementary media like future comics.
@ZioRen

I'm fine with that actually, as long as Rey is with him; I'd feel sorry for Leia, but it would be a comfort to her knowing her son was alive and with someone who loved and understood him.

Meanwhile,has anyone seen this?

http://www.theweek.co.uk/star-wars-8/68360/star-wars-8-kylo-ren-is-not-han-and-leias-son

I've heard some half a***d theories in my time but this one has to be a winner. Ugh
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Post by Mana on Mon 19 Sep - 6:07

I agree with everything said above..we live in a strange world and there's no doubt in my mind that canon Reylo will ruffle some feathers. But at the end of the day the majority of people will accept it as long as the execution is spot on, despite the minority that will keep bitching regardless of what happens.
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Post by Guest on Mon 19 Sep - 6:25

@Darth_Awakened wrote:I have been thinking about something guys. I admit my tendency to live under the stone, but:
Do any of you know or remeber any other movie that provoked such contradictory and extremly opposite reactions as TFA among the fans on the internet?
Sometimes I have a starnge feeling that there was 2 completely different movies with same characters and action shown in the theatres. lol!
I mean what s in that movie so ambiguous to provoke different interpretations or the problem is in the fandom itself?
@Darth_Awakened

LOL I understand what you mean. I'll read someone else's interpretation and I'm like, "did we watch the same movie??"

We analyze everything about the film including the implied messages that - on the surface - hold a very different meaning. Like, most of us know better than to take Kylo Ren's words at face value such as when he says "he means nothing to me" about Han Solo. We hear the shakiness in his voice, we connect it to his "pull to the light" conflict in the next scene. All of these hint to us that Kylo feels the exact opposite of what he says. But some people (especially on other sites) think Han Solo really means nothing to him just because that's what he said. Comments like that tend to catch me off-guard because they are so superficial and I'm used to the in-depth interpretations that happen here.

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Post by Guest on Mon 19 Sep - 6:39

Regarding my Twitter exchange with Pablo - I agree with those who don't think Kylo's identity should remain a secret. I also believe it will come out somehow. Bloodline already demonstrated that keeping that kind of secret does not go well and that people always find out the truth. I know Snoke banned all mention of Ben Solo's name within the First Order but that doesn't mean his identity isn't known. If Kylo defected or goes rogue in Ep VIII, I could see Hux broadcasting his double identity to bounty hunters and such. Whatever happens, it wouldn't sit right if he just went back to being Ben Solo at the end even if it meant a happy ending of sorts for Leia (and maybe Rey).

It all adds to my doubt that Kylo will survive this trilogy. I want him to be redeemed and live more than anything (even Reylo happening) but it does always come back to what could be done with him. Exile is probably the best option, but I wouldn't personally see that as a happy ending, not for someone who seems so lonely and isolated already. It also wouldn't be great for Rey after she spent so long alone on Jakku. If the rest of the trilogy shows Rey and Ben could be happy together if it's just the two of them, then fair enough I guess. But I'm not totally convinced because it would feel downbeat to me to have them dumped on Ahch-To or similar while the rest of the family, resistance, Galaxy does what? I don't know, it's not that I doubt some form of Reylo happening or redemption, it's whether Kylo/Ben can realistically have any kind of happy ending I doubt.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 19 Sep - 6:45

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Regarding my Twitter exchange with Pablo - I agree with those who don't think Kylo's identity should remain a secret. I also believe it will come out somehow. Bloodline already demonstrated that keeping that kind of secret does not go well and that people always find out the truth. I know Snoke banned all mention of Ben Solo's name within the First Order but that doesn't mean his identity isn't known. If Kylo defected or goes rogue in Ep VIII, I could see Hux broadcasting his double identity to bounty hunters and such. Whatever happens, it wouldn't sit right if he just went back to being Ben Solo at the end even if it meant a happy ending of sorts for Leia (and maybe Rey).

It all adds to my doubt that Kylo will survive this trilogy. I want him to be redeemed and live more than anything (even Reylo happening) but it does always come back to what could be done with him. Exile is probably the best option, but I wouldn't personally see that as a happy ending, not for someone who seems so lonely and isolated already. It also wouldn't be great for Rey after she spent so long alone on Jakku. If the rest of the trilogy shows Rey and Ben could be happy together if it's just the two of them, then fair enough I guess. But I'm not totally convinced because it would feel downbeat to me to have them dumped on Ahch-To or similar while the rest of the family, resistance, Galaxy does what? I don't know, it's not that I doubt some form of Reylo happening or redemption, it's whether Kylo/Ben can realistically have any kind of happy ending I doubt.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Everything you wrote highly depends on the bigger picture - what would happen to the Galaxy as a whole in the end?
The Re-New Republic? I do not think so. Especially after Bloodline.
Something radically has to change - however I am unable now to see clearly what.
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Post by Guest on Mon 19 Sep - 7:00

@Darth_Awakened - I don't know what the resolution could be, either. I kinda think Kylo would have to be left in a stronger position than those who would wish to do him harm. But then we are into Renperor territory and I personally don't like the idea of Supreme Leader Kylo Ren! The galaxy is in a mess, though, and who knows what remains of the New Republic's infrastructure or if any senators survived outside the Hosnian System. I guess it depends what emerges to fight the First Order or whether the First Order succeeds in some form to rule the galaxy.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 19 Sep - 7:05

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:@Darth_Awakened - I don't know what the resolution could be, either. I kinda think Kylo would have to be left in a stronger position than those who would wish to do him harm. But then we are into Renperor territory and I personally don't like the idea of Supreme Leader Kylo Ren! The galaxy is in a mess, though, and how knows what remains of the New Republic's infrastructure or if any senators survived outside the Hosnian System. I guess it depends what emerges to fight the First Order or whether the First Order succeeds in some form to rule the galaxy.
@Mrs Ben Solo

Having in mind it is Disney - I do not see Renperor as a possibility.
Anyway, as sure as I can be I do not see Snoke survive the trilogy either. He is definitely positioned as "super evil" in both storylines (political & spiritual).
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 19 Sep - 7:12

I hate to be the resident conspiracy theorist (LOL actually no, I don't hate it at all... wherever I go, I'm always the resident conspiracy theorist) but the "wtf can we do with redeemed Kylo" problem is one of the (several) reasons I think he may have ended up where he is for the sake of the "greater good".

If somebody's motive turns out to have been Saving the Galaxy(tm) all along, the story isn't going to worry how exactly this will be explained so that everybody in the galaxy understands he didn't personally want the Hosnian system destroyed. Especially if he's instrumental in ultimately destroying something that would have, say, threatened all life in the galaxy, and makes great personal sacrifices for that "greater good". He would be a hero. A controversial anti-hero to the audience, yes, but still a hero in the context of the battle of good vs. evil.

But I'm not going to bet a large sum on that happening or anything. It's just a gut feeling I have, and a simple solution to a plot that otherwise seems a bit like it's painting itself to a corner.

On another note, SW tends not to get too complicated and bogged down by the details when its redeemed villains get to live - at least if the likes of Revan and Ulic Qel-Droma are anything to go by. Though Ulic comes close to the exile model that's popular on this forum. And, in his way, so does Revan. But it's not exactly a satisfying ending.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 19 Sep - 7:18

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Regarding my Twitter exchange with Pablo - I agree with those who don't think Kylo's identity should remain a secret. I also believe it will come out somehow. Bloodline already demonstrated that keeping that kind of secret does not go well and that people always find out the truth. I know Snoke banned all mention of Ben Solo's name within the First Order but that doesn't mean his identity isn't known. If Kylo defected or goes rogue in Ep VIII, I could see Hux broadcasting his double identity to bounty hunters and such. Whatever happens, it wouldn't sit right if he just went back to being Ben Solo at the end even if it meant a happy ending of sorts for Leia (and maybe Rey).

It all adds to my doubt that Kylo will survive this trilogy. I want him to be redeemed and live more than anything (even Reylo happening) but it does always come back to what could be done with him. Exile is probably the best option, but I wouldn't personally see that as a happy ending, not for someone who seems so lonely and isolated already. It also wouldn't be great for Rey after she spent so long alone on Jakku. If the rest of the trilogy shows Rey and Ben could be happy together if it's just the two of them, then fair enough I guess. But I'm not totally convinced because it would feel downbeat to me to have them dumped on Ahch-To or similar while the rest of the family, resistance, Galaxy does what? I don't know, it's not that I doubt some form of Reylo happening or redemption, it's whether Kylo/Ben can realistically have any kind of happy ending I doubt.
@Mrs Ben Solo

It depends on exactly what 'exile' means. The two of them dumped on some lonely planet with whatever 'government' replaces the Republic keeping strong tabs on them isn't appealing.
But, Ben faking his own heroic 'death' then touring the Uncharted galaxy with Rey aboard the Falcon....that actually sounds like fun. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 19 Sep - 8:11

@Darth Dingbat

You are a wise person. How old are you? You must be 1000 years or so :-).

Everyone seems indeed to be very intent on having an opinion and knowing better about everything and hammering down their POV. There is no discussion anymore. It's just "I am right and you are wrong." And I fully agree on the agressivity. I know it's a strange example, but even on my way to work on the highway, I can literally feel the agressivity. And then I noticed that I am getting agressive too which is ok if it happens once or twice under pressure, but when you start clutching your wheel everyday... And I am by far not the most agressive driver. So in the last weeks I have started to slow down - nice side effect is that it also reduced a bit my gas consumption - just trying to be more relaxed, not trying to pass everyone who dares to drive a bit slower. It's actually quite nice except for the ones who then get super angry because you're not driving like a Formula 1 driver and nearly trying to push you off the road. And that is exactly the problem. We live in a society. It's very difficult to try to be more gounded and open when everyone around you is just baring teeth. I think it's my second post today complaining about the mass effect. But it's true. Sometimes it feels like a big wave you cannot escape.

However, this morning, going to my garage I passed a lady I had never seen before and that I will probably never see again and for whatever reason we both said hello to each other, smiling. This is really not typical because I live in a city/town so people do not say hello. Maybe it's because I was sort of daydreaming and smiling to myself and she also looked relaxed. But I had this moment where the cynic in me was like "maybe there is hope." That is until I hit the road and some woman in a huge car drove really close behind me trying to get me to drive faster even though I was at speed limit.

Sorry that was really off topic now, but I am in a reflective mood today.

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Post by ZioRen on Mon 19 Sep - 8:18

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Regarding my Twitter exchange with Pablo - I agree with those who don't think Kylo's identity should remain a secret. I also believe it will come out somehow. Bloodline already demonstrated that keeping that kind of secret does not go well and that people always find out the truth. I know Snoke banned all mention of Ben Solo's name within the First Order but that doesn't mean his identity isn't known. If Kylo defected or goes rogue in Ep VIII, I could see Hux broadcasting his double identity to bounty hunters and such. Whatever happens, it wouldn't sit right if he just went back to being Ben Solo at the end even if it meant a happy ending of sorts for Leia (and maybe Rey).

It all adds to my doubt that Kylo will survive this trilogy. I want him to be redeemed and live more than anything (even Reylo happening) but it does always come back to what could be done with him. Exile is probably the best option, but I wouldn't personally see that as a happy ending, not for someone who seems so lonely and isolated already. It also wouldn't be great for Rey after she spent so long alone on Jakku. If the rest of the trilogy shows Rey and Ben could be happy together if it's just the two of them, then fair enough I guess. But I'm not totally convinced because it would feel downbeat to me to have them dumped on Ahch-To or similar while the rest of the family, resistance, Galaxy does what? I don't know, it's not that I doubt some form of Reylo happening or redemption, it's whether Kylo/Ben can realistically have any kind of happy ending I doubt.
@Mrs Ben Solo

It depends on exactly what 'exile' means. The two of them dumped on some lonely planet with whatever 'government' replaces the Republic keeping strong tabs on them isn't appealing.
But, Ben faking his own heroic 'death' then touring the Uncharted galaxy with Rey aboard the Falcon....that actually sounds like fun. Laughing Laughing Laughing
@motherofpearl1

Yep, my personal vision of "exile" involves a ronin-like life for Kylo moving forward. Just because that would be so fun to explore in other media, and then they can have the character pop up if they want him to in future movies. Maybe Rey is with him, maybe not. "Redeemed" Kylo definitely needs to go on some journey for inner peace and atonement, that's for sure. I can't picture him sitting in one place or being in a prison of any kind. What's the point?

I wonder if Kylo would ever end up with any kind of apprentice. I'm laughing at the idea of an eager Ahsoka-type following him around!
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 19 Sep - 8:24

@SanghaRen wrote:@Darth Dingbat

You are a wise person. How old are you? You must be 1000 years or so :-).

Everyone seems indeed to be very intent on having an opinion and knowing better about everything and hammering down their POV. There is no discussion anymore. It's just "I am right and you are wrong." And I fully agree on the agressivity. I know it's a strange example, but even on my way to work on the highway, I can literally feel the agressivity. And then I noticed that I am getting agressive too which is ok if it happens once or twice under pressure, but when you start clutching your wheel everyday... And I am by far not the most agressive driver. So in the last weeks I have started to slow down - nice side effect is that it also reduced a bit my gas consumption - just trying to be more relaxed, not trying to pass everyone who dares to drive a bit slower. It's actually quite nice except for the ones who then get super angry because you're not driving like a Formula 1 driver and nearly trying to push you off the road. And that is exactly the problem. We live in a society. It's very difficult to try to be more gounded and open when everyone around you is just baring teeth. I think it's my second post today complaining about the mass effect. But it's true. Sometimes it feels like a big wave you cannot escape.

However, this morning, going to my garage I passed a lady I had never seen before and that I will probably never see again and for whatever reason we both said hello to each other, smiling. This is really not typical because I live in a city/town so people do not say hello. Maybe it's because I was sort of daydreaming and smiling to myself and she also looked relaxed. But I had this moment where the cynic in me was like "maybe there is hope." That is until I hit the road and some woman in a huge car drove really close behind me trying to get me to drive faster even though I was at speed limit.

Sorry that was really off topic now, but I am in a reflective mood today.

@SanghaRen

That's happened to me,the worst time was when a gang of kids tailgated me in a country road,then overtook with a rude gesture - and narrowly avoided crashing head on into an oncoming lorry. Absolutely terrifying.
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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 19 Sep - 8:38

@motherofpearl1

Ben faking his own death, that is a good one. Faking a heroic death does not really sound like atonement Smile I can already hear Pablo complaining about the brat's sense of entitlement to the end... Pablo, if you are reading this, I am joking. But faking his death could indeed let the truth be revealed while giving him the opportunity to atone in a more efficient way. I guess one argument would be that it's still a way to escape your public responsibility and it would probably still hurt Leia's potential political career although I doubt that she would go back to politics - at least not in the frontline. She's sacrificed enough.

I say build a bigger Death Star, get Hux to try and destroy another couple of planets, kill Hux before he can do it and show up as the Savior. For whatever happened before, blame it on Hux or Snoke. Luke and Finn have to die, of course, because they know. Mom Leia will forgive. Rey gets seduced so not a problem. Did I forget anyone? Oh yes, Chewie. Well, gotta die too. The droids can get re-programmed, lucky them. Clean slate, all good, Ben Solo Skywalker is back to the public. And this is Star Wars New Generation Very Happy

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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 19 Sep - 9:00

Yesterday I was checking out Mark Hamill's tweets and I came across Carrie Fisher's account. I had never noticed her headline before. I love it:

there's no room for demons when you're self possessed...

So people, self-possess yourselves and you will be safe from external demons! This woman is like Yoda on Crack - I mean that in a good way because I love her.


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 19 Sep - 9:04

@SanghaRen wrote:Yesterday I was checking out Mark Hamill's tweets and I came across Carrie Fisher's account. I had never noticed her headline before. I love it:

there's no room for demons when you're self possessed...

So people, self-possess yourselves and you will be safe from external demons! This woman is like Yoda on Crack - I mean that in a good way because I love her.

@SanghaRen

So do I.
As a kid,Carrie was my hero.

As an adult and fellow sufferer of mental illness, she still is.

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Post by snufkin on Mon 19 Sep - 9:21

@SanghaRen wrote:@snufkin
Regarding how Han recognized Ben under Kylo's costume, I think that Pablo was asked about it and answered that there was still a story to be told about how Ben became Kylo. So it seems as though it will be explained. I think Han might have seen him do something nasty in costume and something happened like mask went off or Kylo said something and he recognized his son. Since it seems that he hasn't seen his son in ages, it's probably the second option, Kylo saying something. That might explain also why he's more eager to say that they lost their son forever, while Leia is still seeing him in a better light.

@SanghaRen

You certainly get the impression that Han had returned to the scuzzy underbelly of life until Rey brought him kicking and screaming back to reality. Maybe enough to have picked up on the news of what his son was up to. Or enough to be able to put the details together to figure out that this mysterious figure was his kid. They may never explain it though, just like the question of if he was like "Meh, our kid had too much of your dad in him, whaddyagonna do?" but seems pretty calm about him kidnapping Rey.

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Post by nonesuch on Tue 20 Sep - 0:47

I don't know how to embed tweets, but Pablo really clarified what he's doing with his tweets about Kylo:

https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778004923753623554

He has made it clear that all his tweets reflect his opinion, and nothing else. He's urging us all to sit tight and see how the story plays out. It strikes me as sound advice, though I just hope Pablo disengages from this topic. People wouldn't be quite as impatient or frustrated if he didn't keep on engaging with Kylo questions that he - for obvious reasons - can't throw any actual light on.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 20 Sep - 0:58

@nonesuch wrote:I don't know how to embed tweets, but Pablo really clarified what he's doing with his tweets about Kylo:

https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778004923753623554

He has made it clear that all his tweets reflect his opinion, and nothing else. He's urging us all to sit tight and see how the story plays out. It strikes me as sound advice, though I just hope Pablo disengages from this topic. People wouldn't be quite as impatient or frustrated if he didn't keep on engaging with Kylo questions that he - for obvious reasons - can't throw any actual light on.
@nonesuch

Pablo likes winding people up,that's all. He doesn't mean any harm, it's just Pablo!
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