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Post by Gemini on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 7:54 pm

Yep, Reywalkers, the most adamant and biggest group of people who obsess about reys parentage will be very disappointed lol



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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 7:55 pm

WhatGirl wrote:
@Mana wrote:Guys..there's no way Rey is or will ever be a Skywalker...
@Mana

Exactly... it would make NO sense given what we know from the film and novels.
@WhatGirl

I'm not personally worried about Reywalker being resurrected... But it will reanimate a few of the faithful's corpses! Very Happy

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Post by BastilaBey on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 7:56 pm

@Mana wrote:Guys..there's no way Rey is or will ever be a Skywalker...
@Mana

I don't think she could be either. I'm not really talking about parentage specifically, more things like the rebel grrls wondering if Kylo would survive or not. That's obviously something you can't know for sure from TFA, so it could change as the story develops. That's the difference, I think. Pablo is saying you can't guess who Rey's parents are from the film. As many of us have said, you can guess who they aren't - and JJ's comment would back this up. But if her background is something to do with the future plot, which it should be really, there's no way a fan would be able to guess it all beforehand.
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Post by Gemini on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 7:57 pm

I just can't with the reywalkers, all other kind of speculation is cool but I've had lots of bad experiences with Reywalkers
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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:09 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo Oh wow, I just saw him reference Luke and Leia being made siblings and nobody being able to guess that from ANH. So...they are cool with retconning stuff as big as that, still? Okay.

I mean I know things change during production. You play around with a scene, some things work better than you thought they might, others you have to rethink. But at a fundamental level, changing who someone is or isn't related to after that first film? After you've established interactions with other characters? I really hope that's not what's going on.
@BastilaBey

I think it's a hugely different situation this time. Pablo has already said that the main story of the ST has been planned out along with ten years worth of storytelling. GL did not plan his story out thoroughly and this is evident within the OT. Not only was Vader never originally Luke's father in ANH, but as we all know Leia wasn't Luke's sister. Luke's sister was gong to be an entirely new character set in GL's original plan for the ST (which he would've made in the 90s) and part f the story was that he would go looking for her. Only after having a messy and expensive divorce did GL realise that he would never make those movies, so he rectonned things - badly. Not only did Luke and Leia's romantic entanglement lead to accidental incest (made even more hilarious with GL rectonning Leia "always knowing" they were siblings") but remember Yoda and Obi-Wan being willing to sacrifice Han and Leia in ESB? I'd doubt they'd be willing to do that if Leia was a Skywalker at that point. There is way to many plot holes through the original trilogy with the whole sibling issue, but Vader and Luke it is different, because you get a hint of the backstory, but not enough for it to be absolute. It was made ambiguous so there were plenty of ways for the story to go and therefore Vader being Luke's dad made sense as a twist. Leia being Luke's sister... not so much.

So yeah, if they suddenly made Rey and Kylo cousins, it would still look weird because there's evidence to show that they're definitely not (similar to Luke/Leia) and it would mess up all that build up and make it completely pointless.

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Post by Gemini on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:12 pm

Heck in all fairness I think we reylos tend to look for forensic reylo clues too lol

Just what happens when you love an idea or theory.

I try hard not to look too deep, just what is in narrative structure, cinematic technique and structure and also what's on the surface or was on the surface but hidden now.
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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:17 pm

@Gemini wrote:I just can't with the reywalkers, all other kind of speculation is cool but I've had lots of bad experiences with Reywalkers
@Gemini

I know Gem... I know.

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Post by Gemini on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:18 pm

AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@Gemini wrote:I just can't with the reywalkers, all other kind of speculation is cool but I've had lots of bad experiences with Reywalkers
@Gemini

I know Gem... I know.
@AppleCrumble122

Once got attacked with a barrage of sarcastic memes and gifs lol
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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:22 pm

@Gemini wrote:Heck in all fairness I think we reylos tend to look for forensic reylo clues too lol

Just what happens when you love an idea or theory.

I try hard not to look too deep, just what is in narrative structure, cinematic technique and structure and also what's on the surface or was on the surface but hidden now.
@Gemini

We have examined this whole thing forensically for all kinds of clues in relation to Reylo, Rey's parentage and all kinds of other stuff. There's fun to be had in speculating and we've had some laughs here (and a bit a drama!) I've learnt a lot, as I'm sure many of us have, from the meta and such. And even if the theories don't pan out, I wouldn't call it a waste of time. The only danger is becoming so invested in certain things that you ruin your enjoyment of what might otherwise be a good story. I know we are running that risk to lesser and greater extents in each individual case. Personally, I will be devastated if Kylo dies, especially unredeemed. But as long as we get given a good story, I'll probably still enjoy the rest. I see Reylo happening in some form but I've been trying to manage my expectations from the start. I'm not going to hang my hat on anything until we know more about Ep 8.

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Post by Gemini on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:26 pm

I agree with you^^

I just love films analysis.

Been wrong at times and have predicted correctly too it's all just fun for me really.

(Can't wait to see if I'm right about who got the chop in the walking dead) i made a guess based totally off of cinematic direction and types of shot and what i think they pointed to

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Post by vaderito on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:42 pm

I knew when they spared Poe, and OI spoiled that he'd survive VIII and IX, that they'd kill a character who wasn't supposed to die. Just watch. It all goes back to that change. It's a butterfly effect. They spared one so someone else entered the death row.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:48 pm

The thing if they killed him off, redeemed or not, is what's the point of having Leia say that she wants him back? And very subtly giving her her due, both with the backstory in Bloodline, lines about thinking about him, especially in utero and as a child in both that book and the Aftermath one, and having it be her kid who's the legacy of that family? Plus her husband dies so their son can die? That's Han's big sacrifice out of love? Not to mention all the ads you see here in California about meeting him at Disneyland?

Same thing if something is meant to be set up with Rey. Spends her whole life lonely and starved of love/companionship, only to ultimately kill off the person who's the other side of the coin for her? If they went either of those routes, I'll skip the sequels because I can easily get my fill of Christmas family dysfunction and depression without going to the movies.


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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 9:04 pm

@Gemini wrote:I agree with you^^

I just love films analysis.

Been wrong at times and have predicted correctly too it's all just fun for me really.

(Can't wait to see if I'm right about who got the chop in the walking dead) i made a guess based totally off of cinematic direction and types of shot and what i think they pointed to

@Gemini

I know who gets Lucilled thanks to a spoiler site I forgot I was following on Facebook, lol. I'm not really watching it anymore, though, and I don't mind spoilers, obviously! Razz

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Post by ZioRen on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 9:26 pm

@Gemini wrote:I just can't with the reywalkers, all other kind of speculation is cool but I've had lots of bad experiences with Reywalkers
@Gemini

I feel you. Once upon a time I was all in with the theory of little cousin Rey Skywalker who Ben Solo spared from his Padawan massacre years ago. But the way I saw Rey Skywalker theorists, or people just associated with it, bash Reylo fans personally turned me off hard. And this was before I even gave Reylo the time of day (I think I actually started looking more into it kind of out of spite).

Well our theories seem to be going in the right direction, so I'm not worried in that respect! Unless something that big (it would probably change the entire story to change her parentage) in the story really is still in flux, which I just can't imagine. Not in a modern blockbuster. This isn't like the days of the OT.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 10:45 pm

Yikes.

Well, as you may have noticed, I have had my doubts that things weren't as well planned during the writing of TFA as we've been led to believe. By 2015 I expect the story to have been set in stone, though, because otherwise - the trilogy would be a mess. I can't imagine how LF and Disney would be dumb enough to plan an epic trilogy so loosely that "everything" can be changed "should something better come along" (Pablo's words). No way. And that wouldn't affect only the films, but the entire canon timeline across different media. That was supposed to be coherent, wasn't it?

Either way, even if "everything" were in flux (which would be disappointing in itself), I can't see how any competent storyteller - and especially a good one like Rian - could possibly see Reywalker as a good development that makes sense after TFA. So there's that. Reywalker definitely wouldn't be a case of "should something better come along". It would be a case of "let's see how we can, uh, explain all this, somehow".

Still, what's annoying is that you just KNOW that when Reylo happens some antis will look back on those tweets as "proof" that Reylo only happened because it was so popular that it was forcibly made to happen. Argh.
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Post by Mana on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:04 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:Yikes.

Well, as you may have noticed, I have had my doubts that things weren't as well planned during the writing of TFA as we've been led to believe. By 2015 I expect the story to have been set in stone, though, because otherwise - the trilogy would be a mess. I can't imagine how LF and Disney would be dumb enough to plan an epic trilogy so loosely that "everything" can be changed "should something better come along" (Pablo's words). No way. And that wouldn't affect only the films, but the entire canon timeline across different media. That was supposed to be coherent, wasn't it?

Either way, even if "everything" were in flux (which would be disappointing in itself), I can't see how any competent storyteller - and especially a good one like Rian - could possibly see Reywalker as a good development that makes sense after TFA. So there's that. Reywalker definitely wouldn't be a case of "should something better come along". It would be a case of "let's see how we can, uh, explain all this, somehow".

Still, what's annoying is that you just KNOW that when Reylo happens some antis will look back on those tweets as "proof" that Reylo only happened because it was so popular that it was forcibly made to happen. Argh.
@Darth Dingbat

I'm pretty sure Kylux is more popular than Reylo as a ship...so if they care so much about what fans think they should make Kylux canon!!!
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Post by ZioRen on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:21 pm

@Mana wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:Yikes.

Well, as you may have noticed, I have had my doubts that things weren't as well planned during the writing of TFA as we've been led to believe. By 2015 I expect the story to have been set in stone, though, because otherwise - the trilogy would be a mess. I can't imagine how LF and Disney would be dumb enough to plan an epic trilogy so loosely that "everything" can be changed "should something better come along" (Pablo's words). No way. And that wouldn't affect only the films, but the entire canon timeline across different media. That was supposed to be coherent, wasn't it?

Either way, even if "everything" were in flux (which would be disappointing in itself), I can't see how any competent storyteller - and especially a good one like Rian - could possibly see Reywalker as a good development that makes sense after TFA. So there's that. Reywalker definitely wouldn't be a case of "should something better come along". It would be a case of "let's see how we can, uh, explain all this, somehow".

Still, what's annoying is that you just KNOW that when Reylo happens some antis will look back on those tweets as "proof" that Reylo only happened because it was so popular that it was forcibly made to happen. Argh.
@Darth Dingbat

I'm pretty sure Kylux is more popular than Reylo as a ship...so if they care so much about what fans think they should make Kylux canon!!!
@Mana

I don't think it really is. I think a good number of fans got scared away from Reylo by the louder reactions to it, particularly on places like Tumblr. I feel like I watched Reylo blow up and then start dwindling down as "THE opinion" became more solidified.

(And if they want to do Kylux to please the fans, they'd have to turn Hux into a barely recognizable semi-woobie version of himself dressed in all pink with a blue milkshake in hand.  silent )
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Post by Mana on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:41 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@Mana wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:Yikes.

Well, as you may have noticed, I have had my doubts that things weren't as well planned during the writing of TFA as we've been led to believe. By 2015 I expect the story to have been set in stone, though, because otherwise - the trilogy would be a mess. I can't imagine how LF and Disney would be dumb enough to plan an epic trilogy so loosely that "everything" can be changed "should something better come along" (Pablo's words). No way. And that wouldn't affect only the films, but the entire canon timeline across different media. That was supposed to be coherent, wasn't it?

Either way, even if "everything" were in flux (which would be disappointing in itself), I can't see how any competent storyteller - and especially a good one like Rian - could possibly see Reywalker as a good development that makes sense after TFA. So there's that. Reywalker definitely wouldn't be a case of "should something better come along". It would be a case of "let's see how we can, uh, explain all this, somehow".

Still, what's annoying is that you just KNOW that when Reylo happens some antis will look back on those tweets as "proof" that Reylo only happened because it was so popular that it was forcibly made to happen. Argh.
@Darth Dingbat

I'm pretty sure Kylux is more popular than Reylo as a ship...so if they care so much about what fans think they should make Kylux canon!!!
@Mana

I don't think it really is. I think a good number of fans got scared away from Reylo by the louder reactions to it, particularly on places like Tumblr. I feel like I watched Reylo blow up and then start dwindling down as "THE opinion" became more solidified.

(And if they want to do Kylux to please the fans, they'd have to turn Hux into a barely recognizable semi-woobie version of himself dressed in all pink with a blue milkshake in hand. silent )
@ZioRen

yeah..so antis can't complain that they did Reylo because it was the 'popular' opinion if they believe it to be the unpopular opinion in the first place if so many people are driven out by it...I don't like Kylux either but in places like Tumblr etc. Kylux has more fanfiction and fanart than Reylo and Stormpilot is more mainstream and has more media support and was even nominated for a ship of the year award...just because something is 'popular', doesn't mean it'll happen
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:41 pm

Pablo's Tweets don't concern me at all. He was not only speaking vaguely about writing in general, he was referring to the writing process (which for the most part is already over for the ST). Two-thirds of the scripts are already written and filmed and Rian did the treatments for both VIII and IX. I do agree with @Darth Dingbat that the process itself was not as fluid as some would want fans to believe, but I see nothing worrying about these Tweets. In fact, I don't disagree with him. All he's really saying is that writing is an organic process. You can have an outline, but that outline is still going to experience changes when you reach the filming and editing stages. That doesn't mean the overall outline doesn't exist, it just means that details like specific dialogue, shots and even interactions can and should change if the writer comes up with what they deem a better idea. When something isn't working you do have to be willing to change it, but obviously whatever Rian was working on with JJ "worked" because the script was written and the movie was filmed. That part of the process is over. I don't see Pablo even coming close to saying that the entire story is in a sate of constant potential flux, I see him referring to changes that were already made during the writing process. The "better ideas" have already surfaced. They did so years ago. In fact, I get the sense that in a lot of ways the TFA we ultimately received was the result of throwing out a lot of ideas from a lot of writers.

Pablo and Rian have outright said that fan reactions to VII didn't impact VIII because VIII was already written before VII was even released. I believe him when he says LF have stories planned in advance. That doesn't mean they have every minute detail pegged down in some unchangeable vault. I wouldn't expect (or want) that. As organic as writing is, it should also be fun, and there's no fun in details you can't tweak here and there. You always have to think about how to improve your art.

Pablo also made fun of the retconned Luke/Leia relation in RotJ, saying that "nobody has any interest in [seeing] that."
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Post by Kessel on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:41 pm

Maybe Pablo should stop making fun of the Snoke=Plageuis believers. For all he knows, they might retcon Snoke into Plageuis...if they're looking at what fans want. It's a pretty persistent theory. Wink jk
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Post by ZioRen on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:44 pm

@Mana wrote:yeah..so antis can't complain that they did Reylo because it was the 'popular' opinion if they believe it to be the unpopular opinion in the first place if so many people are driven out by it...I don't like Kylux either but in places like Tumblr etc. Kylux has more fanfiction and fanart than Reylo and Stormpilot is more mainstream and has more media support and was even nominated for a ship of the year award...just because something is 'popular', doesn't mean it'll happen
@Mana
I actually do like Kylux! Well...I did, until it devolved into what I complained about above, but that's an entirely different fandom related issue.

As for Pablo's tweets, I'm not really entirely sure what to make of them. Wasn't he the one who was adamant before that all of this was planned out for the next few years when people suggested that things got changed mid-filming? And that the major trajectory was set? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Thinking about it more, he probably did just mean it along the lines of what you said. I think I'm just a little paranoid and distrusting about the process of this trilogy. Maybe because I feel like TFA, as much as I liked it, felt shaky and flat in multiple areas. I don't really think they'd make super major changes based on fan feedback, though.


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Post by Mana on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:48 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@Mana wrote:yeah..so antis can't complain that they did Reylo because it was the 'popular' opinion if they believe it to be the unpopular opinion in the first place if so many people are driven out by it...I don't like Kylux either but in places like Tumblr etc. Kylux has more fanfiction and fanart than Reylo and Stormpilot is more mainstream and has more media support and was even nominated for a ship of the year award...just because something is 'popular', doesn't mean it'll happen
@Mana
I actually do like Kylux! Well...I did, until it devolved into what I complained about above, but that's an entirely different fandom related issue.

As for Pablo's tweets, I'm not really entirely sure what to make of them. Wasn't he the one who was adamant before that all of this was planned out for the next few years when people suggested that things got changed mid-filming? And that the major trajectory was set? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.
@ZioRen

JJ and Larry did say in an interview that they talked with Rian about how things would end up in the story..its the 'how' part that needs to be told, and the 'how' is pretty open to change, but the end result will still be the same, Rey not being a Skywalker and Rey and Kylo being important to each other and forging a deeper connection, you can't change those parts of the story, they're the foundation of the whole trilogy...
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Post by Helix on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:53 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@Mana wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:Yikes.

Well, as you may have noticed, I have had my doubts that things weren't as well planned during the writing of TFA as we've been led to believe. By 2015 I expect the story to have been set in stone, though, because otherwise - the trilogy would be a mess. I can't imagine how LF and Disney would be dumb enough to plan an epic trilogy so loosely that "everything" can be changed "should something better come along" (Pablo's words). No way. And that wouldn't affect only the films, but the entire canon timeline across different media. That was supposed to be coherent, wasn't it?

Either way, even if "everything" were in flux (which would be disappointing in itself), I can't see how any competent storyteller - and especially a good one like Rian - could possibly see Reywalker as a good development that makes sense after TFA. So there's that. Reywalker definitely wouldn't be a case of "should something better come along". It would be a case of "let's see how we can, uh, explain all this, somehow".

Still, what's annoying is that you just KNOW that when Reylo happens some antis will look back on those tweets as "proof" that Reylo only happened because it was so popular that it was forcibly made to happen. Argh.
@Darth Dingbat

I'm pretty sure Kylux is more popular than Reylo as a ship...so if they care so much about what fans think they should make Kylux canon!!!
@Mana

I don't think it really is. I think a good number of fans got scared away from Reylo by the louder reactions to it, particularly on places like Tumblr. I feel like I watched Reylo blow up and then start dwindling down as "THE opinion" became more solidified.

(And if they want to do Kylux to please the fans, they'd have to turn Hux into a barely recognizable semi-woobie version of himself dressed in all pink with a blue milkshake in hand.  silent )
@ZioRen

I just saw a recent ( like made 9-ish hours ago ) anti-reylo post with 9,000 notes, so I'd say for sure. It's just hip to hate Reylo, even so many months after the movie came out and I still see people calling Kylo a ***** who they can't wait to see die. Not very Star Wars of them...
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:59 pm

@ZioRen
I don't really understand why everybody even started talking about fan theories/desires influencing the ST because Pablo said nothing about that. In fact, he and Rian have been vehemently against the notion in every Tweet I've ever read from either of them that addressed it. Was it because of the Rebel Grrls podcast?
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Post by BastilaBey on Sat 10 Sep 2016, 12:07 am

@frolickingfizzgig yes, I was summarizing what the rebel grrls had to say today and then Pablo just happened to be tweeting about the storytelling process at the time. The two aren't really connected. The girls were saying they're unsure whether Kylo would survive the trilogy - because of course they wouldn't know either way at this point - and suggested that maybe fan reception of the character could influence LF. I'm honestly extremely skeptical that that would be the case, what with him being the last Skywalker and all. Anyway, he's very popular across the entire Star Wars fanbase, so they shouldn't even be concerned on that basis.

You're quite right about the storytelling process. The reality is, they simply can't know how things are going to go with absolutely everything. In production, they can decide a line of dialogue sounds stilted in delivery, and they improve it. Or they splice together shots from lots of different takes to create the finished scene. Or JJ decides to have Kylo bridal carry Rey onto his ship, and has suddenly created an iconic moment in the film that doesn't actually appear in the script. I guess that's the kind of thing Pablo meant, not 'suddenly Rey will be related to these people who have no memory of losing their daughter'!
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Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

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