ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7

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Post by SanghaRen on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:40 am

Reading Pablo's latest tweets, one message is clear: Hux is an a** Very Happy

Well he re-affirmed that he thought Anakin had no excuse neither so here we go...
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778012479045574656

And that he does not see any compelling reason to excuse patricide...
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778012373302988800

So I guess that pretty much sums up his issues with Kylo.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:50 am

@SanghaRen wrote:Reading Pablo's latest tweets, one message is clear: Hux is an a** Very Happy

Well he re-affirmed that he thought Anakin had no excuse neither so here we go...
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778012479045574656

And that he does not see any compelling reason to excuse patricide...
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778012373302988800

So I guess that pretty much sums up his issues with Kylo.
@SanghaRen

Yep. And that s it.
No panic.

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Post by Maria Antonietta on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:50 am

@SanghaRen wrote:Reading Pablo's latest tweets, one message is clear: Hux is an a** Very Happy

Well he re-affirmed that he thought Anakin had no excuse neither so here we go...
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778012479045574656

And that he does not see any compelling reason to excuse patricide...
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778012373302988800

So I guess that pretty much sums up his issues with Kylo.
@SanghaRen

We are apologists? Nope, we want to kick his a** until he does a 180 degrees turnaround
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Post by BastilaBey on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:53 am

@sangharen I'm as pro-redemption as they come, but 'excusing patricide'? Would hope that any redemption storyline would not go that way. That wouldn't actually be redemption, it would be brushing it under the carpet. Kylo has to face what he's done and atone if such an arc is to be satisfying for both the character and audience.
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Post by Birdwoman on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:55 am

Honestly, I see him redeemed and living.  I do suspect he will be like the Hulk and might go off into exile for a bit.  I kind of want Rey to be with him because she has longed for belonging.  If they fall in love and her 'belonging' takes off into exile it would be very bittersweet.  However, I do see that option as the most realistic path for this story.  You enter the next movie, where Rey needs help or the galaxy needs help....then Kylo/Ben steps into help.  Of course, that could be repetitive with the Luke story they are telling now.

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Post by vaderito on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:59 am

@BastilaBey wrote:@sangharen I'm as pro-redemption as they come, but 'excusing patricide'? Would hope that any redemption storyline would not go that way. That wouldn't actually be redemption, it would be brushing it under the carpet. Kylo has to face what he's done and atone if such an arc is to be satisfying for both the character and audience.
@BastilaBey

if Pablo continues insulting Kylo fandom with putting stupid stuff into their mouth ("excusing patricide"? who ever asked for that?) he'll face even worse backlash. It's time for him to take a long vacation cause he did enough damage and this backtracking that is trying to take JJ, Adam, KK, etc down with him is ridiculous. Their opinion is more important than his cause they make the movie. His overblown ego needs reality check. I'm glad that fans aren't letting him get away with bullshith anymore.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:03 am

@SanghaRen wrote:Reading Pablo's latest tweets, one message is clear: Hux is an a** Very Happy

Well he re-affirmed that he thought Anakin had no excuse neither so here we go...
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778012479045574656

And that he does not see any compelling reason to excuse patricide...
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/778012373302988800

So I guess that pretty much sums up his issues with Kylo.
@SanghaRen

Yeah, it's clear what his problems with the character are, but I guess my point is - I can't imagine an imaginary Lucas Bakery being okay with one of the members of their product development team posting on Twitter about his dislike of Lucas Bakery's new bestselling Liquorice-Cranberry Truffle Muffins and rolling his eyes at people who like Liquorice-Cranberry Truffle Muffins.
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Post by Irina de France on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:05 am

Pablo is entitled to his opinion. I (strongly) disagree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion. I'll simply say that I can't help but find his attitude unprofessional.
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Post by vaderito on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:07 am

@Irina de France wrote:Pablo is entitled to his opinion. I (strongly) disagree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion. I'll simply say that I can't help but find his attitude unprofessional.
@Irina de France

His irrational hate for Kylo, which he spews AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF LF/DISNEY, will be the end of him and I can't wait. He represents those companies extremely poorly, all fandoms hate him and the biggest one among them is now reeling because of his insults.
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Post by BastilaBey on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:10 am

@vaderito wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:Pablo is entitled to his opinion. I (strongly) disagree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion. I'll simply say that I can't help but find his attitude unprofessional.
@Irina de France

His irrational hate for Kylo, which he spews AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF LF/DISNEY, will be the end of him and I can't wait. He represents those companies extremely poorly, all fandoms hate him and the biggest one among them is now reeling because of his insults.
@vaderito

Well his latest tweets make it very clear he is just expressing his personal opinion. I think he knows that the waters have always been muddy though, since the understanding from fans is that he knows something we don't. And come on, we don't hate him. He seems like a nice guy, he just feels very differently about Kylo from us. There are plenty of fans who see it the way he does. TFA was set up to indicate that there's more to Kylo than meets the eye, but if some fans approach it as 'we'll see him for what he is right now, rather than speculate about what comes next', that's their right.

Speaking generally, the thing that bothers me most about this 'what is canon and what is not' obsession in SW fandom, is that it seems to spoil a little of the art. It's open to interpretation. That's why even after the OT is complete, people still speculate on whether Vader's redemption was genuine, or truly earned. Because people approach it with their own life experience, and that's what's so wonderful. It might be 'canon' that Vader was redeemed, but it doesn't mean everyone will accept that or feel the same way about it. The same will be true of whatever happens in Kylo's story.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:14 am

@BastilaBey wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:Pablo is entitled to his opinion. I (strongly) disagree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion. I'll simply say that I can't help but find his attitude unprofessional.
@Irina de France

His irrational hate for Kylo, which he spews AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF LF/DISNEY, will be the end of him and I can't wait. He represents those companies extremely poorly, all fandoms hate him and the biggest one among them is now reeling because of his insults.
@vaderito

Well his latest tweets make it very clear he is just expressing his personal opinion. I think he knows that the waters have always been muddy though, since the understanding from fans is that he knows something we don't. And come on, we don't hate him. He seems like a nice guy, he just feels very differently about Kylo from us. There are plenty of fans who see it the way he does. TFA was set up to indicate that there's more to Kylo than meets the eye, but if some fans approach it as 'we'll see him for what he is right now, rather than speculate about what comes next', that's their right.
@BastilaBey
I don't hate him and I certainly don't wish ill on him. I think he realized he made a mistake in contradicting the movie, JJ, Adam, and Kathleen Kennedy, thus this backtracking. He just went a little too far this time and fans were understandably confusing his opinions with the actual canonical direction of the story. I hope he realizes that his opinions do hold weight.
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Post by Irina de France on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:18 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:Pablo is entitled to his opinion. I (strongly) disagree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion. I'll simply say that I can't help but find his attitude unprofessional.
@Irina de France

His irrational hate for Kylo, which he spews AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF LF/DISNEY, will be the end of him and I can't wait. He represents those companies extremely poorly, all fandoms hate him and the biggest one among them is now reeling because of his insults.
@vaderito

Well his latest tweets make it very clear he is just expressing his personal opinion. I think he knows that the waters have always been muddy though, since the understanding from fans is that he knows something we don't. And come on, we don't hate him. He seems like a nice guy, he just feels very differently about Kylo from us. There are plenty of fans who see it the way he does. TFA was set up to indicate that there's more to Kylo than meets the eye, but if some fans approach it as 'we'll see him for what he is right now, rather than speculate about what comes next', that's their right.
@BastilaBey
I don't hate him and I certainly don't wish ill on him. I think he realized he made a mistake in contradicting the movie, JJ, Adam, and Kathleen Kennedy, thus this backtracking. He just went a little too far this time and fans were understandably confusing his opinions with the actual canonical direction of the story. I hope he realizes that his opinions do hold weight.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Long story short, Pablo can make mistakes and has opinions like everyone on this good Earth.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:21 am

@BastilaBey wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:Pablo is entitled to his opinion. I (strongly) disagree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion. I'll simply say that I can't help but find his attitude unprofessional.
@Irina de France

His irrational hate for Kylo, which he spews AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF LF/DISNEY, will be the end of him and I can't wait. He represents those companies extremely poorly, all fandoms hate him and the biggest one among them is now reeling because of his insults.
@vaderito

Well his latest tweets make it very clear he is just expressing his personal opinion. I think he knows that the waters have always been muddy though, since the understanding from fans is that he knows something we don't. And come on, we don't hate him. He seems like a nice guy, he just feels very differently about Kylo from us. There are plenty of fans who see it the way he does. TFA was set up to indicate that there's more to Kylo than meets the eye, but if some fans approach it as 'we'll see him for what he is right now, rather than speculate about what comes next', that's their right.
@BastilaBey

Well, I have to agree with @Irina de France that Pablo is entitled to his opinion, but his attitude is unprofessional, IMO.

The thing is, he might not mean anything bad with it, but the problem is that something like the "I'm not sure what would be so compelling to excuse patricide" tweet simultaneously comes across as having contempt for fans (who are supposedly looking to "excuse patricide") and making it sound like there's no compelling story behind Kylo being the way he is (considering that, again, he does know what the story is). Even if he doesn't mean it that way, I'll bet it sounds like that to a lot of people. The more people are listening, the more you have to be careful with your words. That's just the way it is.

I don't take personal offence at what Pablo says, and his tweets don't make me worry about the story. But I still find this unprofessional and frankly quite strange. I can't think of another example quite comparable to this Pablo situation for LF. I can think of many authors etc. who have made a**es of themselves by arguing with readers' reviews on the internet, for example, but that's a very different case - and pretty much everybody agrees that those authors have embarrassed themselves by doing so.
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Post by Guest on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:22 am

I certainly don't hate Pablo! I love Kylo to bits but he is bad right now and in a bad place. I hope that changes and I want him to be redeemed and live. There is a chance I won't get what I want, but that's not Pablo's fault. We need to keep perspective here and not resort to flinging abuse at people who have differing opinions. Pablo has been with Lucasfilm for many years and they aren't going to get rid of him because certain sections of fandom got in a tizzy over an opinion that many others also share.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:23 am

@Irina de France wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:Pablo is entitled to his opinion. I (strongly) disagree with him, but he's entitled to his opinion. I'll simply say that I can't help but find his attitude unprofessional.
@Irina de France

His irrational hate for Kylo, which he spews AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF LF/DISNEY, will be the end of him and I can't wait. He represents those companies extremely poorly, all fandoms hate him and the biggest one among them is now reeling because of his insults.
@vaderito

Well his latest tweets make it very clear he is just expressing his personal opinion. I think he knows that the waters have always been muddy though, since the understanding from fans is that he knows something we don't. And come on, we don't hate him. He seems like a nice guy, he just feels very differently about Kylo from us. There are plenty of fans who see it the way he does. TFA was set up to indicate that there's more to Kylo than meets the eye, but if some fans approach it as 'we'll see him for what he is right now, rather than speculate about what comes next', that's their right.
@BastilaBey
I don't hate him and I certainly don't wish ill on him. I think he realized he made a mistake in contradicting the movie, JJ, Adam, and Kathleen Kennedy, thus this backtracking. He just went a little too far this time and fans were understandably confusing his opinions with the actual canonical direction of the story. I hope he realizes that his opinions do hold weight.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Long story short, Pablo can make mistakes and has opinions like everyone on this good Earth.
@Irina de France

Definitely.
And guys do not forget - it s only a fiction.
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Post by vaderito on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:37 am

problem with Pablo's extremely biased opinion is that he supposedly knows the story. therefore, people don't see his opinion as just that, an extremely biased personal opinion that may not reflect what the story's about. They see is as a freakin potential SPOILER. That's the problem. And that's a huuuge problem that LF/Disney must look into. cause nobody's going to believe that he's giving an extremely negative biased personal opinion that in no way is a spoiler if he knows the freakin story already! No wonder people are frekain out and his treating fans like garbage doesn't help. LF/Disney has a PR crisis on their hands and they must solve it ASAP by all means necessary.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:48 am

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I certainly don't hate Pablo! I love Kylo to bits but he is bad right now and in a bad place. I hope that changes and I want him to be redeemed and live. There is a chance I won't get what I want, but that's not Pablo's fault. We need to keep perspective here and not resort to flinging abuse at people who have differing opinions. Pablo has been with Lucasfilm for many years and they aren't going to get rid of him because certain sections of fandom got in a tizzy over an opinion that many others also share.
@Mrs Ben Solo

But is it a good idea to get certain sections of fandom in a tizzy? I mean, what is there to be gained from that? Personally, if I were Pablo or anyone else working for LF in an official capacity, I'd only comment on something if it's a line of speculation that should, for one reason or another, be debunked.

I know everybody has a different opinion on this, and that's fine, but I tend to agree on what @vaderito says that the subjective opinions of someone who knows the whole story already make it sound like his opinions reflect the whole story. He knows far more than we do. Therefore the power differential, so to speak, is heavily in his favour. (Dramatic as that sounds  Laughing )

Pablo doesn't say anything whether Kylo is going to be redeemed in the future or not, but his comments - deliberately or not - make it sound like the reasons of his fall aren't going to be all that compelling. I don't for a minute believe this to be a case, but that's what it sounds like. Comments like that throw a wet blanket on the enthusiasm of those fans who are most invested in Kylo's story and most interested to find out his backstory and how he ended up in such a bad place. Now, I find this rather bizarre if there actually is more to the story (as I believe there is) and if we're meant to be invested in Kylo's fate (as I believe we are).

I suppose my question is, what's the point of throwing a wet blanket on fans in the first place? Unless these speculations are like Reywalker or Skymom - something to be debunked (more or less).
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Post by MyOnlyHope on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:49 am

Pablo can look at and analyze Kylo's present objectively because he knows the character's future. Same with Anakin. That's all I see happening here. I can't honestly say that I disagree with him (except for the whole "some people are just bad" thing which we already know canonically wasn't always the case for Han and Leia's son).

So, beyond that, what has Pablo really said? As far as actual villains go, he prefers those with a penchant for villainy. Well, so do I. Kylo's a terrible villain (that's kind of the point). He's a tortured anti-villain who sucks at his job.

Pablo doesn't think Kylo's actions can be excused. Well, who here thinks they can? I've been saying for months that the choices Kylo makes from here on out are vastly more important than his past or his motivations. Kylo is delusional and just straight up wrong. I'm confident that his coming to accept that truth and getting the sense knocked into him is the story we're getting here. No "he was always just acting for the greater good," no "he had super good reasons ," and certainly no "he's actually not selfish." Will Kylo's backstory make him more sympathetic? Yeah, probably, but the choices Kylo makes throughout the future of this story can and will contribute toward that same end.

So, the abuse being thrown at Pablo needs to stop. He's not lounging around tweeting stuff like "Kylo is evil, was born evil, and always will be evil," or "you're disgusting and immoral for feeling empathy toward such a monster." He's retweeted posts before about how Kylo is the perfect villain for the modern age because of how relatable he is. People can make terrible choices and still redeem themselves by making good ones (NOT by trying to excuse or explain away the terrible choices).
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Post by Guest on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:50 am

@Mrs Ben Solo Your current avatar is pure eye candy! I could look at pictures of Cannes Adam all day. Love

@Maria Antonietta wrote:So, according to this tweet, what's in the movie isn't canon? I don't get it. Again, why would they kill Han if they don't intend to give him a redemption?
@Maria Antonietta

Hmm, well, I don't believe any less in redemption for Kylo in spite of Pablo's opinions. In fact I see Pablo's dislike of Kylo as a good thing since he just doesn't like conflicted anti-villains. The man is very opinionated in general, he hates shipping too but notice the way he holds back about Reylo? That might not be purely out of kindness. I'm sure he wants to mock Reylo but for some reason he stays mum on the topic. In fact NO ONE associated with LF ever discusses or mentions the possibility of Kylo/Rey. It could very well be part of an agreement they all signed... lol.

Edit: Actually one person who works for the story group did answer a question about Reylo. When asked if Reylo is a dumb theory, he said no theories are stupid and referenced the "I am your father" reveal.

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 10:54 am

@BastilaBey wrote:@sangharen I'm as pro-redemption as they come, but 'excusing patricide'? Would hope that any redemption storyline would not go that way. That wouldn't actually be redemption, it would be brushing it under the carpet. Kylo has to face what he's done and atone if such an arc is to be satisfying for both the character and audience.
@BastilaBey

Well,I would have said the same thing except....
I am absolutely sure he'll torture himselfwith guilt
And the man he killed,his father...forgave him.
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Post by BastilaBey on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:00 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@sangharen I'm as pro-redemption as they come, but 'excusing patricide'? Would hope that any redemption storyline would not go that way. That wouldn't actually be redemption, it would be brushing it under the carpet. Kylo has to face what he's done and atone if such an arc is to be satisfying for both the character and audience.
@BastilaBey

Well,I would have said the same thing except....
I am absolutely sure he'll torture himself guilt
And the man he killed,his father...forgave him.
@motherofpearl1

We already saw the beginning of it in TFA

From the script
“Kylo Ren is somehow weakened by this wicked act. Himself horrified. His shock is broken only when Chewie cries out in agony!”

There doesn't need to be an 'excuse' but it couldn't be clearer that Kylo is not being evil for the sake of being evil. Will it be justifiable? No, but that's not the point. Redemption arcs aren't really about letting someone off the hook, they're sort of the opposite.
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Post by SanghaRen on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:01 am

I personally find the latest exchange of tweets interesting and I am sorry that it affects fellow posters here. It's like watching arm wrestling between fans and Pablo right now in the most unadapted wrestle ring possible, Twitter. I know, I should be ashamed of myself for feeling like having some popcorn while watching the wrestling. I guess it's because I am bored.

He clarified which I think is nice. He could have just ignored it and he did not. Yes, his backtracking might still show a bit of reluctancy but it's human to show some pride. The thing is, honestly, if the guy was to stop interacting with fans on Twitter, this thread would be pretty much dead. I am not happy with certain things he wrote but he has given us some great moments and free of charge too.

One thing I take out of it though is that patricide is really a huge issue - bigger than I thought - if even a Story Group member is put off by it. Lucasfilm certainly went for a big risk here and it makes me wonder how they'll come around that one. Maybe they should have Han appear to Kylo through a dream or whatever to soothe that one out a bit.
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Post by Little_Boots on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:05 am

Pablo is holding the laser pointer and some people are trying to catch it like little cats. He's a wind up
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ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7

Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:07 am

@SanghaRen wrote:I personally find the latest exchange of tweets interesting and I am sorry that it affects fellow posters here. It's like watching arm wrestling between fans and Pablo right now in the most unadapted wrestle ring possible, Twitter. I know, I should be ashamed of myself for feeling like having some popcorn while watching the wrestling. I guess it's because I am bored.

He clarified which I think is nice. He could have just ignored it and he did not. Yes, his backtracking might still show a bit of reluctancy but it's human to show some pride. The thing is, honestly, if the guy was to stop interacting with fans on Twitter, this thread would be pretty much dead. I am not happy with certain things he wrote but he has given us some great moments and free of charge too.

One thing I take out of it though is that patricide is really a huge issue - bigger than I thought - if even a Story Group member is put off by it. Lucasfilm certainly went for a big risk here and it makes me wonder how they'll come around that one. Maybe they should have Han appear to Kylo through a dream or whatever to soothe that one out a bit.
@SanghaRen

Han already forgave Kylo in TFA - at least I saw it as such.
Maybe I am wrong, but if Vader got redeemed after choking pregnant wife, cutting of Luke s hand and killing bunch of younglings - I am pretty much sure we go towards the redemption story once again.

EDIT: I would feel very uncomfortable if the message of SW would look like this: It is not ok to kill you dad - cause you won t get redeemed, but go ahead buddy try to choke you wife and kill some kids - and everything will be just fine. Nope.


Last edited by Darth_Awakened on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 Empty Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:09 am

@Little_Boots wrote:Pablo is holding the laser pointer and some people are trying to catch it like little cats. He's a wind up
@Little_Boots
Not really. Nobody here has been Tweeting him as far as I could see. These questions were all from outside Twitter users and were posted here for discussion. Not every discussion of Pablo = taking it too seriously, tea leaf reading or chasing a laser pointer. Sometimes we're actually just enjoying having something to talk about.
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