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Post by ZenBrainJam on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 8:34 am

@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:THIS IS STAR WARS NOT DJANGO UNCHAINED FFS!!!

People really gotta take off their Racial Sensitivity Glasses when they watch space fiction.
@Rei of Sunshine

What should I say when someone makes a mafia movie? Or when I hear Italian cliches? FLY DOWN

Mafia here is everywhere and we eat just spaghetti and pizza, playing our mandolin Neutral
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 8:44 am

@ZenBrainJam wrote:
@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:THIS IS STAR WARS NOT DJANGO UNCHAINED FFS!!!

People really gotta take off their Racial Sensitivity Glasses when they watch space fiction.
@Rei of Sunshine

What should I say when someone makes a mafia movie? Or when I hear Italian cliches? FLY DOWN

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@ZenBrainJam

Ugh ;_;
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Post by Libra Vibora on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 10:47 am

@BenRey wrote:
@Rimfaxe96 wrote:Just don't check YouTube comments. A fanboy nearly hyperventilated there about how the fight between Finn and Ren is basically like a white guy punishing his disobedient slave. Rolling Eyes
@Rimfaxe96

This reminds me of the negative feedback the Finnlo fandom is receiving. Sad

The backlash towards Finnlo honestly boggles my mind. Given how antis went out of their way to deny Rey's role in Kylo's character arc and wrote off-the-wall meta about how the trilogy will be entirely centered around Finn and Kylo's relationship, you would think they secretly ship the pairing and would be happy with the rise of Finnlo content. But nope, they're not.

I need to stop trying to make sense out of anti logic. I'll end up getting a headache and bang my head against the wall for a thousand times. Mad

@ZioRen wrote:
@BenRey wrote:
@Rimfaxe96 wrote:Just don't check YouTube comments. A fanboy nearly hyperventilated there about how the fight between Finn and Ren is basically like a white guy punishing his disobedient slave. Rolling Eyes
@Rimfaxe96

This reminds me of the negative feedback the Finnlo fandom is receiving. Sad
@BenRey

I miss the days when people weren't so precious about pairings. Now if it isn't perfectly lovely and healthy, people see it as an excuse to jump on it and make exaggerated comparisons so they can feel morally superior. Once upon a time the idea of shipping included enjoying romantic dynamics/stories that you would never want to recreate in real life. So you enjoyed it in fiction, where nobody really gets hurt. Now that's "not allowed" because apparently young women and girls are so weak-minded that they must be protected from fiction lest their little minds confuse it for reality.

Pairings not only have to be 100% healthy and conflict-free now; they also have to be in some way progressive. And if they are, that means they are completely exempt from any sort of criticism and their flaws are so supposed to be ignored. I can't tell you how many times I've seen pairings that are poorly-written, boring, abusive or problematic (by tumblr's standards) skate on by without getting scrutinized and mocked or get defended because the Shipping Purity Police deem them "progressive," when you know they wouldn't show any sort of leniency if the pairings were white, cis, and/or het.

Like, I'm all for media representation of couples who go against the traditional media mold, but I detest this current ship policing movement. All it has done is reinforce the long-standing ideas that fandoms are toxic environments and shippers are psychotic, as people are getting bullied and harassed for not shipping the "correct" ships. And it has pushed the idea that shipping is no longer about fun and enjoying ships because they interest you. No, you have to apathetically "ship" a pairing for the sake of moral superiority. I say "apathetically ship" because I've seen too many times antis producing little to no content for the "healthy" and "progressive" ships they claim to stan for.

Anyway, TL;DR: I agree with you completely.
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Post by ZioRen on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:21 pm

@Libra Vibora wrote:

Pairings not only have to be 100% healthy and conflict-free now; they also have to be in some way progressive. And if they are, that means they are completely exempt from any sort of criticism and their flaws are so supposed to be ignored. I can't tell you how many times I've seen pairings that are poorly-written, boring, abusive or problematic (by tumblr's standards) skate on by without getting scrutinized and mocked or get defended because the Shipping Purity Police deem them "progressive," when you know they wouldn't show any sort of leniency if the pairings were white, cis, and/or het.

Like, I'm all for media representation of couples who go against the traditional media mold, but I detest this current ship policing movement. All it has done is reinforce the long-standing ideas that fandoms are toxic environments and shippers are psychotic, as people are getting bullied and harassed for not shipping the "correct" ships. And it has pushed the idea that shipping is no longer about fun and enjoying ships because they interest you. No, you have to apathetically "ship" a pairing for the sake of moral superiority. I say "apathetically ship" because I've seen too many times antis producing little to no content for the "healthy" and "progressive" ships they claim to stan for.

Anyway, TL;DR: I agree with you completely.
@Libra Vibora

Yup. This is the reason we're not drowning in FinnRey content despite the fact that so many people declare their absolute adoration for it and hold it up as the best pairing to ship, the most moral, the most progressive, and the most not-Reylo.
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Post by Helix on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 3:18 pm

It's pretty funny to see 'why draw Reylo ( or whatever ship ) instead of my healthy ship!!!" so often as if we're instantly going to be enlightened and create media for their ships. It doesn't work like that. Like others have said, do it yourself. I like good progressive ships, it they're interesting and I like the dynamic. Not just because it is and has a vocal group of people heralding it as such.
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Post by Libra Vibora on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 5:05 pm

@BenRey wrote:
@Rimfaxe96 wrote:Just don't check YouTube comments. A fanboy nearly hyperventilated there about how the fight between Finn and Ren is basically like a white guy punishing his disobedient slave. Rolling Eyes
@Rimfaxe96

This reminds me of the negative feedback the Finnlo fandom is receiving. Sad

@ZioRen wrote:
@BenRey wrote:
@Rimfaxe96 wrote:Just don't check YouTube comments. A fanboy nearly hyperventilated there about how the fight between Finn and Ren is basically like a white guy punishing his disobedient slave. Rolling Eyes
@Rimfaxe96

This reminds me of the negative feedback the Finnlo fandom is receiving. Sad
@BenRey

I miss the days when people weren't so precious about pairings. Now if it isn't perfectly lovely and healthy, people see it as an excuse to jump on it and make exaggerated comparisons so they can feel morally superior. Once upon a time the idea of shipping included enjoying romantic dynamics/stories that you would never want to recreate in real life. So you enjoyed it in fiction, where nobody really gets hurt. Now that's "not allowed" because apparently young women and girls are so weak-minded that they must be protected from fiction lest their little minds confuse it for reality.

@ZioRen wrote:
@Libra Vibora wrote:

Pairings not only have to be 100% healthy and conflict-free now; they also have to be in some way progressive. And if they are, that means they are completely exempt from any sort of criticism and their flaws are so supposed to be ignored. I can't tell you how many times I've seen pairings that are poorly-written, boring, abusive or problematic (by tumblr's standards) skate on by without getting scrutinized and mocked or get defended because the Shipping Purity Police deem them "progressive," when you know they wouldn't show any sort of leniency if the pairings were white, cis, and/or het.

Like, I'm all for media representation of couples who go against the traditional media mold, but I detest this current ship policing movement. All it has done is reinforce the long-standing ideas that fandoms are toxic environments and shippers are psychotic, as people are getting bullied and harassed for not shipping the "correct" ships. And it has pushed the idea that shipping is no longer about fun and enjoying ships because they interest you. No, you have to apathetically "ship" a pairing for the sake of moral superiority. I say "apathetically ship" because I've seen too many times antis producing little to no content for the "healthy" and "progressive" ships they claim to stan for.

Anyway, TL;DR: I agree with you completely.
@Libra Vibora

Yup. This is the reason we're not drowning in FinnRey content despite the fact that so many people declare their absolute adoration for it and hold it up as the best pairing to ship, the most moral, the most progressive, and the most not-Reylo.

Who needs ship haters to kill a ship when you have purity-obsessed shippers who are more focused with moral superiority than promoting their "OTP"?  Laughing

Okay, being serious here: I feel bad for the actual Finnrey fans. And I mean the ones who genuinely like/love the ship and don't get involved in the Reylo vs. Finnrey war. They not only have to deal with their ship's lack of popularity and it being ignored in social media. They also had to deal with tragically low number content because of other "fans" being obsessed with shipping purity and being associated with antis. Triste

@Helix wrote:It's pretty funny to see 'why draw Reylo ( or whatever ship ) instead of my healthy ship!!!" so often as if we're instantly going to be enlightened and create media for their ships. It doesn't work like that. Like others have said, do it yourself. I like good progressive ships, it they're interesting and I like the dynamic. Not just because it is and has a vocal group of people heralding it as such.

It's also funny that it's been, what? almost a year since TFA premiered and antis pulling that type of sith and Finnrey still remains (judging by AO3, tumblr, and social media standards) largely unpopular. You would think antis would get the hint that all of their tactics thus far have done Finnrey no favors and that they should try to switch gears and try other (and non-toxic) ways to promote it and increase its popularity. But nope, they're still giving the ship empty endorsements of being "healthy" and "progressive" yet nothing else (like being, actually interesting), screaming at people for being "problematic" and bossing them around to ship an alternative pairing that doesn't do anything for them all the while doing nothing to help the ship they claim to like grow.  ROFL  

And yes!  Approves I care more about a pairing involving interesting characters and having an interesting dynamic than it being progressive. If the pairing also happens to be progressive, great! But if its only redeeming feature is that its socially revolutionary, then I'm not bothering in feigning interest. Ehem
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Post by BastilaBey on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:52 am

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 - Page 38 Screen11
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Post by Xylo Ren on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:05 am

@BastilaBey

They forgot to say Rey
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:21 am

@Libra Vibora wrote:
And yes!  Approves I care more about a pairing involving interesting characters and having an interesting dynamic than it being progressive. If the pairing also happens to be progressive, great! But if its only redeeming feature is that its socially revolutionary, then I'm not bothering in feigning interest. Ehem
@Libra Vibora

Yes. And this goes especially well with what you said about moral superiority above.

The best way to promote progressive pairings is to give them interesting stories. Interesting stories with interesting dynamics and interesting characters and character development and all that jazz, pairings whose progressiveness is just a base fact, but not the story. Because "look at this couple, they're progressive and healthy" does not a plot make.

The problem I see with the "morally superior" mindset, though, is that - from what I've seen - they don't only want progressive pairings: they want, or at least claim to want, progressive pairings that come with stories which have been scrubbed of any potential drama, any conflict, any element that might be remotely "problematic".

I honestly don't know what happened. When did it become a point of moral superiority to prefer stories where nothing much happens?
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Post by BastilaBey on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:11 am

Just some of the gems in comments on Star Wars facebook page today, as they are wishing Adam a happy birthday

But he got beat up by a girl

Should have kept the Mask on, far scarier... once it was off, he just looked like a bullied kid extracting revenge on his classmates. Hair too (Han Solo) long, and lips too fleshy... still enjoyed though.

Worst bad guy ever. Constantly looks like he's going to burst in to tears

Thought he was great. Right up to when his mask came off then I realised he was basically an emo teenager who should have been spanked more as a kid

weakest movie villain ever! they missed an opportunity. whining, simpering, lightweight. happy birthday to the most disappointing character in a disappointing disaster...

Sounds like a whole lot of people don't realize that Kylo isn't meant to be 'the most bad*** villain ever!!111!11'

Edit - one more from twitter

I'm sorry but this guy just doesn't look very threatening. In fact he looks like a big nerd. Couldn't find anyone more menacing?
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:17 am

@BastilaBey wrote:Just some of the gems in comments on Star Wars facebook page today, as they are wishing Adam a happy birthday

But he got beat up by a girl

Should have kept the Mask on, far scarier... once it was off, he just looked like a bullied kid extracting revenge on his classmates. Hair too (Han Solo) long, and lips too fleshy... still enjoyed though.

Worst bad guy ever. Constantly looks like he's going to burst in to tears

Thought he was great. Right up to when his mask came off then I realised he was basically an emo teenager who should have been spanked more as a kid

weakest movie villain ever! they missed an opportunity. whining, simpering, lightweight. happy birthday to the most disappointing character in a disappointing disaster...

Sounds like a whole lot of people don't realize that Kylo isn't meant to be 'the most bad*** villain ever!!111!11'

Edit - one more from twitter

I'm sorry but this guy just doesn't look very threatening. In fact he looks like a big nerd. Couldn't find anyone more menacing?
@BastilaBey

I have an idea: we should write and publish a book, "Star Wars for dummies". Are you in?
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:22 am

LOL, @BastilaBey. The second one sounds like a restaurant review Razz

They just don't get it, do they? Might there be a reason why "he got beat up by a girl" and looks like a "bullied kid", "about to burst into tears", "emo teenager", "weak villain"...?

I mean, it's funny how many people can see that there's something unusual about the character - it's not like anyone ever mistook Vader for a "bullied kid exacting revenge on his classmates" who looks like he's "going to burst into tears". But for some reason they believe he accidentally came across that way.
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Post by IoJovi on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:27 am

Oh my gosh, I love how folks think that Kylo's characterizion in not being bigger, badder and meaner is a complete accident.

It's like they're expecting VIII to come around and TPTB will get a second chance this time around to get it right.

Won't they be in for a huge shock!!!! Laughing
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Post by BastilaBey on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:36 am

Lol, ikr

JJ to Adam, probably: "Dammit Adam, stop with the puppy eyes! you're supposed to be terrifying!"

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 - Page 38 Tumblr_o0zksa0KnU1v4pr6ko1_500

"No, stop it Adam! Stop pushing your lips together like that in a pout! And where's the stylist, why have you made his hair look so immaculate?"

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 - Page 38 1467783199747

"What are you doing?! Why are you so close to her face and looking like you're enjoying it a little too much! Be scarier!"

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"Adam, what are you playing at? You're just going to stare at her instead of pushing her over the cliff?! You're gonna let that girl beat you? We paid to have these reshoots you know! They matter!"

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 - Page 38 Tumblr_o4i7i2oDgt1totdsao1_540

JJ in the commentary: "I can't believe we got Emmy-nominated, Juilliard-educated Adam Driver for this role and he couldn't even be remotely menacing. What a waste."
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Post by Xylo Ren on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:42 am

People are so embarrassing. Like, they do know that it's wishing ADAM DRIVER the ACTOR a "Happy Birthday", and not Kylo Ren?

So stupid they can't even differentiate between an actor and the character he plays, what a bunch of jokes.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:50 am

LOL to all of it. Where is the like button when it's needed!

The director of the 8. explaining SW:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 - Page 38 Hippy10

Suddenly I had a picture of hippy commune at Anch-To with Luke as an old yogi.
And lot of love everywhere Twisted Evil
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 12:43 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:LOL to all of it. Where is the like button when it's needed!

The director of the 8. explaining SW:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 - Page 38 Hippy10

Suddenly I had a picture of hippy commune at Anch-To with Luke as an old yogi.
And lot of love everywhere Twisted Evil
@Darth_Awakened

I am really, really missing that "like" button right now.
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Post by snufkin on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 1:11 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:People are so embarrassing. Like, they do know that it's wishing ADAM DRIVER the ACTOR a "Happy Birthday", and not Kylo Ren?

So stupid they can't even differentiate between an actor and the character he plays, what a bunch of jokes.
@Xylo Ren

Likely these are written by the same people

Elsewhere on Twitter (sorry but the first one made me as a West Coast liberal LOL pretty hard)

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Post by Sylvia Snow on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 1:54 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:LOL to all of it. Where is the like button when it's needed!

The director of the 8. explaining SW:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 - Page 38 Hippy10

Suddenly I had a picture of hippy commune at Anch-To with Luke as an old yogi.
And lot of love everywhere Twisted Evil
@Darth_Awakened

I am really, really missing that "like" button right now.
@ISeeAnIsland

I can see Luke trying to promote peace and love to Rey instead of teaching her how to fight and use the Force
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Post by Rimfaxe96 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 1:54 pm

First one made me lol too (despite being white and brunette irl Laughing)
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Post by Kessel on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:05 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:Just some of the gems in comments on Star Wars facebook page today, as they are wishing Adam a happy birthday

But he got beat up by a girl

Should have kept the Mask on, far scarier... once it was off, he just looked like a bullied kid extracting revenge on his classmates. Hair too (Han Solo) long, and lips too fleshy... still enjoyed though.

Worst bad guy ever. Constantly looks like he's going to burst in to tears

Thought he was great. Right up to when his mask came off then I realised he was basically an emo teenager who should have been spanked more as a kid

weakest movie villain ever! they missed an opportunity. whining, simpering, lightweight. happy birthday to the most disappointing character in a disappointing disaster...

Sounds like a whole lot of people don't realize that Kylo isn't meant to be 'the most bad*** villain ever!!111!11'

Edit - one more from twitter

I'm sorry but this guy just doesn't look very threatening. In fact he looks like a big nerd. Couldn't find anyone more menacing?
@BastilaBey

People are certainly entitled to their opinions about a fictional character, but to do it in response to a post wishing the actor happy birthday? What a weird place to do it. It's like some people just can't waste an opportunity to be nasty. Some comments sound oddly demanding, like they're telling Disney what to do before they even know what's going on.
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Post by IoJovi on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:09 pm

@Kessel89 it really does say something about the amount of entitlement some folks have these days, doesn't it...
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Post by Birdwoman on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:28 pm

I was reading my husband some of these comments about the Star Wars official site wishing Adam Driver 'Happy Birthday!'

His comments after reading them: "They realize that Kylo Ren is a fictional character and Adam Driver is the actor playing him...."

He also commented that he was surprised that they didn't 'get' where the story seems to be heading. This is a man, who does not analyze fiction at all. He can see the Kylo is not the big bad in this trilogy.

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Post by Helix on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:42 pm

More proof that people have a big problem separating fiction from reality. Nothing like saying something that basically boils down to "Happy Birthday, you suck!" even if it's to a fictional character he plays.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:26 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:
@BastilaBey

They forgot to say Rey
@Xylo Ren

I love that the official Star Wars social media used a photo of Kylo at his most Disney Prince-like.
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