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Post by Saracene on Sat 19 Nov - 16:33

It used to irk me when people called Kylo a weak emo villain, but now it's like water off duck's back. They clearly don't get what the significance of his character is.

Though in a way I understand their disappointment, because if he wasn't a Skywalker Kylo would make a pretty damn effective and cool Just Plain Evil bad guy. Not anywhere as interesting of course, but this kind of character has its place. I kinda miss a good Just Plain Evil villain you could just hate; there hasn't been a great one in either Disney of Marvel movies recently. Scar in The Lion King, now that's a villain.
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Post by snufkin on Sat 19 Nov - 18:30

Depending on what happens in VIII, the follow up comments to the "emo wuss killed cool dad Han" will be complaints about

1) Whatever happens between him & Rey. I'm leaning more towards hoping they make out or have something more than reluctant allies just to provoke those responses.

2) "Why isn't there more Luke?!" "This is an insult to Luke, he's the hero!" "I'm confused, why isn't there more Luke, you losers made us wait an entire movie and then he doesn't do that much!"

3) The obligatory "JJ and Rian are hacks who destroyed my childhood!"
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Post by Helix on Sat 19 Nov - 18:35

@snufkin wrote:Depending on what happens in VIII, the follow up comments to the "emo wuss killed cool dad Han" will be complaints about

1) Whatever happens between him & Rey. I'm leaning more towards hoping they make out or have something more than reluctant allies just to provoke those responses.

2) "Why isn't there more Luke?!" "This is an insult to Luke, he's the hero!" "I'm confused, why isn't there more Luke, you losers made us wait an entire movie and then he doesn't do that much!"

3) The obligatory "JJ and Rian are hacks who destroyed my childhood!"
@snufkin

The worst I've seen about the ST is that they should've brought George back on. Laughing I expect the same from those people again after 8.
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Post by snufkin on Sat 19 Nov - 19:00

@Helix wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Depending on what happens in VIII, the follow up comments to the "emo wuss killed cool dad Han" will be complaints about

1) Whatever happens between him & Rey. I'm leaning more towards hoping they make out or have something more than reluctant allies just to provoke those responses.

2) "Why isn't there more Luke?!" "This is an insult to Luke, he's the hero!" "I'm confused, why isn't there more Luke, you losers made us wait an entire movie and then he doesn't do that much!"

3) The obligatory "JJ and Rian are hacks who destroyed my childhood!"
@snufkin

The worst I've seen about the ST is that they should've brought George back on. :lol: I expect the same from those people again after 8.

@Helix

I honestly find the level of possessiveness/identification and contrasting complaints of Star Wars fans be so bizarre. Especially because the same people demanding George Lucas comes back likely include people who complain about the PT. Maybe what I mean by bizarre is the volume of noise is like people debating over a worldview or interpretation of a religion. And hilariously, the loud complainers have no idea that the character reflects them back to themselves (besides just being the type of people whose reflexive response to an innocent post wishing a cast member happy birthday is to complain endlessly about the character):

On Adolescence (

"What’s interesting about the new Star Wars is its reflexivity about how it fulfils all of our infantile fantasies. By reflexivity, I refer to its ironical deployment of almost the exact same dialogue and plot structure of Episode IV: A New Hope. Many grizzled Star Wars fans came away disappointed that they weren’t challenged and weren’t surprised by the plot of this new one. On first viewing, I came away with the disquieting sense that I had been given exactly what I had wanted – a bit like meeting someone who is just too good to be true, or someone so agreeable that you just know there’s something disagreeable about them that they’re hiding somewhere. Like having eaten two huge slices of chocolate fudge cake at 1 am: you’re too full and you stopped tasting the chocolate about ten minutes ago. Is this what you really wanted?

JJ Abrams is a smart cookie. He has co-written a book whose interest apparently derives from a conversation that emerges in its marginalia. I haven’t read it, but if the New Yorker is to be trusted – and it sometimes isn’t – it is meant to be quite a thriller. I bring it up because this fact comports well with my thought that the new Star Wars successfully spoke to two sets of viewers at once. The first, the Star Wars fans old enough to have seen the first six and oriented their lives around them to some extent. The second, the friends, family, and children of those same viewers, or the rest of the world which had thankfully been spared the madness until now–  who have never seen Star Wars before. For the first set, Abrams knowingly recycled or “composted”, as Bady put it, the plot of the previous films to provocatively say: “these aren’t going to be your Star Wars anymore. These are the droids that you were looking for, but someone else is going to be playing with them.” The lack of surprise for old Star Wars fans seems a way to deliberately withdraw from them and undermine their libidinal investment in the new franchise. Or at the very least to channel it into something manageable and understandable, the Bady position: “I guess they were all commercial schlock from the beginning huh?” Abrams allows us to revel in our childhood but deliberately makes us uncomfortable that we are reveling in the exact same childhood that we indulged in when we watched IV, V, and VI over and over again. Like Lucas, he gives us the enjoyment of a space western but unlike Lucas, Abrams makes us dwell on the uncomfortable realization that we are perhaps doomed to repeat our childhoods forever. Perhaps our childhoods, those of us who were Star Wars fans as children, were actually quite uninteresting.

This brings us to Kylo Ren. It is absolutely perfect that he is a left shark Darth Vader. Kylo Ren is what we Star Wars nerds looked like to non-Star-Wars nerds when we were growing up. We could just never let it go. The Force was always a fantasy about power and omniscience, and a part of being an adolescent is to forcefully experience a reckless wish for omniscience that makes one say and do rather thoughtless and hurtful things. “I don’t know, he just isn’t that scary of a villain. He’s kind of pathetic no?” Seeing this figure throw temper tantrums with his lightsaber..."


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Post by Helix on Sat 19 Nov - 19:06

Speaking of fans I recently saw this basic idea thrown around by a lot of fans boys.


many of these retconned products - the PT, TFA, probably also RO - have in the end proven to be inferior to the OT as films and also in cultural resonance/significance (not the same as box office) and haven't or won't stand the test of time like the OT has, which is fine. But it's this ideology that says it's equivalent/equal to the OT simply because it has the same designs/locations and storylines grafted onto the OT. The OT spawned a brand, and like all brands, that brand has to live on with new products like RO, but it's your choice whether you buy into the marketing that it's a "continuation" or a "lead-up" to the classic storylines.

Very odd considering Lucasfilm and Disney went with these specifically to bring people in with the familiar. It kinda backfired with some of the more *coughs*jaded*coughs* oldschool fans.
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Post by Armadeus on Sat 19 Nov - 19:20

@snufkin

a kind of fandom which is possessive, cranky, touchy, aggressive, and obsessed with power.

Basically every fandom ever Razz
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Post by snufkin on Sat 19 Nov - 19:26

@Armadeus - I'm anti-social by nature, so I typically avoid engaging with other people about almost everything I'm interested in. This whole experience (save for this place) has sort of re-affirmed all the reasons why I don't join clubs or feel like I need to bond with other people about the books, movies, bands, etc I'm interested in.


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Post by Helix on Sat 19 Nov - 19:27

I also like the logic that RO and TFA are just fun side things and could never really be continuations of the perfect OT ( unlike all the perfect games/comics/novels these people read as kids that were totally superior )
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Post by IoJovi on Sat 19 Nov - 19:31

Off topic, but why is everything in italics?

Weird!!!!
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Post by Helix on Sat 19 Nov - 19:38

@IoJovi wrote:Off topic, but why is everything in italics?

Weird!!!!
@IoJovi

I thought it was just on my end for a second, but apparently not.
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Post by Armadeus on Sat 19 Nov - 19:46

@snufkin wrote:@Armadeus - I'm agnostic by nature, so I typically avoid engaging with other people about almost everything I'm interested in. This whole experience has sort of re-affirmed all the reasons why I'm agnostic Wink
@snufkin

Same. When it comes to fandom, I just sit on the fence and 'watch the fireworks', at it were. It isn't always a very comfortable place to sit... more often than not you want to yell out: 'You people play nice! Don't make me come down there!'

Fandom (at least the online offshoot) has effectively dimmed my interest in comics and their related media; watered down my interest in Star Trek; the Star Wars part of myself is made of stronger stuff, but there are cracks appearing. Those responses to Driver's birthday, for example, just... why? That's the most passive aggressive sith I've ever read in my life. What do people gain from this? If you don't have anything constructive to say, maybe it's best not to say anything at all.

Sorry, did not mean for this post to go on for as long as it did Razz
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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Nov - 20:09

@IoJovi wrote:Off topic, but why is everything in italics?

Weird!!!!
@IoJovi

lol, I was wondering the same thing...

When everything is emphasized, nothing is!!

Edit: I think I might know what happened. It looks as though @snufkin posted an entry with too many characters to fit into one post, and the quote she posted was italicized, so perhaps that somehow messed up the coding on the page?

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Post by snufkin on Sat 19 Nov - 20:22

@WhatGirl - fixed it. Or that's weird, there have been full articles posted on here before without it screwing up subsequent entries. Maybe the same bug that made the Like button disappear.

@Armadeus - I can't handle the sort of group behavior that obsessive interest in a topic seems to inspire, so my interests tend to be solitary activities. Present company excepted, of course!


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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Nov - 20:26

@snufkin That's definitely possible. Bugs can inadvertently cause more bugs.

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Post by Mana on Sat 19 Nov - 20:38

lol these fanboys are salty cause they're not the target audience anymore. I don't think many of them even realise this!
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Post by Reynak on Sun 20 Nov - 4:33

@Helix wrote:Speaking of fans I recently saw this basic idea thrown around by a lot of fans boys.


many of these retconned products - the PT, TFA, probably also RO - have in the end proven to be inferior to the OT as films and also in cultural resonance/significance (not the same as box office) and haven't or won't stand the test of time like the OT has, which is fine. But it's this ideology that says it's equivalent/equal to the OT simply because it has the same designs/locations and storylines grafted onto the OT. The OT spawned a brand, and like all brands, that brand has to live on with new products like RO, but it's your choice whether you buy into the marketing that it's a "continuation" or a "lead-up" to the classic storylines.

Very odd considering Lucasfilm and Disney went with these specifically to bring people in with the familiar. It kinda backfired with some of the more *coughs*jaded*coughs* oldschool fans.
@Helix

But it worked with others, like me, LOL. I wasn't going to see the movie because I was obsessed with the OT as a kid and also saw the PT, which I didn't really like except the last movie. I didn't like ROTJ either. I wasn't going to see it because I was sure it would disappoint me big time, like Han Solo disappointed Ben,xD.

My son saw it with his friends and loved it, especially Kylo Ren, although his friends didn't like him. They said he was ugly and whiny ( how tyipical !)

In the end I went to see it and I loved it to pieces. Perhaps it wasn't perfect but, what is? I was so excited when I saw the golden letters scroll and the destroyer in the first scene. As if I was a kid again. I loved to see Han a Chewie again, HF was incredible. I thought the original trio would just be there for the money and to attract nostalgic viewers but I was wrong in HF's case. It wasn't just an old star cameo but a big deal and he exited the "stage" in full glory.

I was already spoiled and knew Han would be killed but the scene blew my mind and was and still is my favourite scene in the movie. To my surprise, Driver manged to make the miracle. He killed my first movie crush and my favourite OT character but, against all odds, he made me root for him and moved me, both of them did in that scene, that's why it's my favourite.

Now, looking back I think I saw Han passing the torch to the new generation embodied in his prodigal son. It was an incredibly daring move many old fans didn't get over but I did. Now Ben/Kylo is my favourite character, so the torch went from my former favourite to the next one. In fact it's no surprise because I also felt a strange fascination for Vader that I never felt for Anakin. Kylo is the flesh and blood of them both so he's meant to be memorabe and Driver has what it takes to make Ben Solo memorable.

I loved Leia in ANH and not so much in TFA but she wasn't given the chance to shine like HF did. I think I had a crush on Han's charm and good looks as a kid but now that he's old is when I've come to love him in his last appearance. How can I be disappointed with TFA when it's so much better and gave me so much more than I expected?

I can also say that I liked Rey, Finn and Poe very much but not half as much as Kylo/Ben. Not because they weren't good enough, they rocked, but Kylo is incredibe. None of the others could compare to him in TFA, not only because AD is great ( though he really is) but because the character holds so much promise. It's been a damn risky move but glory is for the brave. If done well, it will become memorable.

I also loved the ending. Seeing Luke again gave me the chills in the best sense.
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Post by Xylo Ren on Sun 20 Nov - 9:50

@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:
@BastilaBey

They forgot to say Rey
@Xylo Ren

I love that the official Star Wars social media used a photo of Kylo at his most Disney Prince-like.

Right? He looks sad and conflicted here...almost sympathetic.

What a babe.
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Post by MindAndMagic on Sun 20 Nov - 12:28

Easy to make the comparison...

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Post by Mana on Sun 20 Nov - 12:36

Matt Martin, this is for you

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 7 - Page 39 Srcstc
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 20 Nov - 12:36

Queen of the Knights wrote:Easy to make the comparison...

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@Queen of the Knights

Well...if it's a modern myth, it's easy to point things in common...does he write for the saga or the tv shows?
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Post by EchoBase on Sun 20 Nov - 12:37

Queen of the Knights wrote:Easy to make the comparison...

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@Queen of the Knights

Hahahaha, "classic storytelling sort of relationship" to be compared to? How oh how can that be, when they are related?
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Post by IoJovi on Sun 20 Nov - 12:39

@EchoBase That last response though, from Matt Martin.

Holy sith!!! affraid cheers
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Post by EchoBase on Sun 20 Nov - 12:41

@Maria Antoinette: he's in the story group like Pablo.

The official SW account posted this on Instagram: https://instagram.com/p/BNA98pSDN5z/

If you look at the artist's profile, you will see that she/he's a Reylo fan Wink.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 20 Nov - 12:42

Dear Matt,

I know a bunch of people who would likely say you're just a stupid, delusional fangirl.
Brace yourself.

Kind regards,
Darth Awakened

lol!
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Post by Guest on Sun 20 Nov - 12:49

Whoa.

If I'm reading that correctly, he is basically saying that the "classic storytelling relationship" between Beauty and the Beast is comparable to Kylo and Rey's, even if it wasn't a direct inspiration.

Lol that's awesome. cheers

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