Lightsaber crystals: new canon

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Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 28 Oct 2016, 8:49 am

Ok, so how do they work now? Because it's relevant to Rey and her being called by the Skywalkers saber even if she's not one. There's no need to be related to catch it, so why Kylo wasn't able to pull it from the snow?
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by EchoBase on Fri 28 Oct 2016, 8:53 am

@Maria Antonietta wrote:Ok, so how do they work now? Because it's relevant to Rey and her being called by the Skywalkers saber even if she's not one. There's no need to be related to catch it, so why Kylo wasn't able to pull it from the snow?
@Maria Antonietta

I think, he was just weakened from the fight, from the bowcaster shot etc. This doesn't mean that the light saber didnt call for Rey. Maybe it did.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by MeadowofAshes on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 6:58 am

I think it's about worthiness, which has nothing to do with blood ties. Pulling the saber from the snow is an allusion to pulling the sword from the stone in Arthurian legend, as is the island surrounded by a body of water (Isle of Avalon). It's not a direct copy, so not every character lines up exactly with someone, but elements are alluded to. Ben Solo may have been worthy of the family saber, but Kylo Ren is not. When Arthur died the sword was taken back to the Lady of the Lake (sacred feminine) on Avalon to be guarded until his return. I think by having Rey pull the saber instead of Kylo and then take it to the island the writers mean for us to understand the saber is being saved for Ben Solo's return.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by MeadowofAshes on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 7:03 am

Something to note as well: Arthur's quest is to bring back the Holy Grail. He fails, but what's important is what the Grail symbolizes. It's the cup of Christ, which is important because cups are feminine symbols and the message of the original Christians was love and compassion, traits we would consider feminine. The knights' quest is to balance his masculinity with femininity and share that compassion with all. Pretty apropos for a character like Ren, I think.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 7:21 am

Also worth noting that the sword in the stone being Arthur's father's sword is a modern invention. In the Mediaeval legends, it's "just" a magical sword. Of course, Arthur is a king's son because kingship was about lineage, but it wasn't only about lineage, it was also about being chosen by God - and the sword was the sword of divine appointment. Like many other mythical swords, given to the right person to do whatever they're destined to do.

I think they're simply using this familiar imagery to show that Rey is the "true king"/"true hero", and in this context, the lightsaber isn't "The Skywalker Saber of Skywalker Lineage"(tm), but the magical sword of divine appointment. Chosen by the Force. Simple as that, IMO.

I also think there might be a prophecy associated with that lightsaber, hence Kylo's "it is you" reaction the moment she pulled it. As in, "A person who wields this particular sword shall..." And Pablo wouldn't be lying to say that Kylo recognised Rey as the "awakening" if that awakening is something to do with the same prophecy.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by MeadowofAshes on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 7:42 am

@Darth Dingbat Nice catch! I do think Ren saw Rey with the saber in a vision, hence his reaction.

I tend to think of Rey as being like the Lady because she's the most powerful character in the story, surpassing even Merlin, her teacher/lover before encasing him in a tree.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 10:37 am

Yes, it's interesting that the female/male characters have been reversed here- it isn't Rey who's the 'damsel in distress' it's Kylo.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Acritiqua on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 11:49 am

In my personal interpretation in which I personify kyber crystals too much, the crystal is trying to get back to Luke and it doesn't like Kylo who has been after it for years. Kylo wants it because of Darth Vader, but the crystal doesn't "recognize" Vader as it belonged to Anakin. After Anakin turned, those would have been dreadful times for the crystal. The next reunion with Vader when he chopped Luke's hand off, separating the saber from Luke, was "painful" too. The crystal has no desire to return to any of these horrors (kyber crystals are inherently on the light side of the Force).

I like to imagine the lightsaber "running away" from Kylo and that it wasn't simply that Maz found/stole it but the lightsaber was "screaming for help" when it was briefly in Kylo's possession (and Maz heard it). If Kylo were to get his hands on it he would dominate the crystal and probably crack it, causing it to "bleed" (it wouldn't like that). I also like to imagine that although Kylo was weakened/in pain in the end of the film, the crystal itself was trying to resist his pull. Rey is on the light path and her path connects to Luke, and that is where the crystal is trying to go (not only because of its connection to Luke, but because of its instinctive need to fulfill destinies of the light side of the Force). So it resisted Kylo's pull and cooperated with Rey's.

I'll be able to expand on this after TLJ as I can currently only speculate but I felt like the lightsaber connected with Rey over the theme "come back!" It's after Finn leaves Rey (like her family left her) that there is that pain of being abandoned--the pain of separation. The lightsaber was also separated from people (Anakin, Luke) and it also wants someone to come back. Interestingly, Kylo/Ben is also connected to this in that he felt like he was abandoned and he is the lost soul who could return.

As for King Arthur references, I like to view that only with regard to Kylo. He thinks that the lightsaber rejecting him means he's not worthy of Darth Vader (not strong enough). He's wrong, but I think that he is so lost in his neurosis of feeling inadequate that he can't perceive it otherwise. It's because he wants to be like Darth Vader (dark/powerful/evil) that the lightsaber rejects him (ironically), not because he is inherently "unworthy" as he fears he is.

@Darth Dingbat wrote:I also think there might be a prophecy associated with that lightsaber, hence Kylo's "it is you" reaction the moment she pulled it. As in, "A person who wields this particular sword shall..." And Pablo wouldn't be lying to say that Kylo recognised Rey as the "awakening" if that awakening is something to do with the same prophecy.
@Darth Dingbat I agree with this. It wasn't until Rey has the lightsaber that Kylo can confirm whatever it is he suspected she might be. So either there is a prophesy or he has seen this in a vision, or both. And it may well be the Awakening alone because I think it has more meaning than simply being someone beginning to use their Force abilities.

Prophesies and visions are easily connected together anyway. And Maz has the lightsaber because she knows what it connects to (my personifications aside).
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by MeadowofAshes on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 6:11 pm

Ah yes, crystals! That was the original question. Smile

Hey yo, @panki, you're our resident "other canon materials" expert. What's up with the kyber crystals?
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by snufkin on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 10:42 pm

Anybody else ever read the ADF follow up to the first movie, Splinter in the Mind's Eye? I vaguely remember it having to do with the hunt for crystals. It's pretty cringe-worthy because nobody is related in that version of the characters, so you get Luke & Leia flirting with each other while being pursued by their not-bio dad Vader. But maybe some of those elements are being revisted for the Force plot.
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The Lightsaber Theory *spoilers for TLJ*

Post by Lamiller1390 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 3:31 pm

Okay, so I have this theory that I want to run by everyone and see what you all think.

Here it is:

Anakin's blue lightsaber was handed down from Luke to Ben Solo while he was in training. During the flashback scenes of Ben and Luke. Luke has the green one and Ben has the blue one.

If this is true (I have tried to get an answer from Rian Johnson via twitter... good luck on that one)... I feel like so many shifts in meaning.

If Ben did indeed own that Saber... his "That lightsaber, it belongs to me" line to Finn in TFA makes WAY more sense or at least has more power behind it. It would also be fascinating that it called to Rey and why, at least in the novelization, Ben was in the force back vision (At least that is the assumption).

The scene where it breaks in two from the Force pull of Kylo and Rey, where it is perfectly balanced between the Light and the Dark and breaks under the pressure of both... seems more symbolic. And the fact that Rey has kept the pieces and may either repair it and or rebuild it using the same crystal.

I think Kylo is deep... deep... WAY deep down, light. He is just broken, broken under the pressure of both the Light and the Dark side of the force. Rey will be the person who sees that, and has already seen that and will either repair or help rebuild him.

What do you all think???
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by SheLitAFire on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 3:49 pm

I thought someone online did an analysis of the lightsabers and the one young Ben has is the same one as his red one, and he "bled the color" after leaving the academy/Luke? I saw it mentioned in another thread, but can't remember what thread it was in to post it here, but I know it's been discussed in another thread.


Last edited by SheLitAFire on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Lamiller1390 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 3:57 pm

@SheLitAFire Based on the flashback scene, that saber looks nothing like his current one.

In general Red hued Lightsabers are made from Synthetic crystals... Though I don't know nearly enough about lightsaber lore to answer it.

But Kylos saber is Black the one he had as Ben is Silver. Unless he took the crystal out and put it in a new hilt... I think it is a different saber altogether.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 4:29 pm

@Lamiller1390 wrote:@SheLitAFire Based on the flashback scene, that saber looks nothing like his current one.

In general Red hued Lightsabers are made from Synthetic crystals... Though I don't know nearly enough about lightsaber lore to answer it.

But Kylos saber is Black the one he had as Ben is Silver. Unless he took the crystal out and put it in a new hilt... I think it is a different saber altogether.
@Lamiller1390

I believe the "synthetic" crystal thing is old canon.

In new canon, a darksider has to "bleed" a crystal to turn it red. The speculation is that Ben cracked his crystal while trying to bleed it.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Forsythia on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 4:47 pm

@Lamiller1390 wrote:@SheLitAFire Based on the flashback scene, that saber looks nothing like his current one.

In general Red hued Lightsabers are made from Synthetic crystals... Though I don't know nearly enough about lightsaber lore to answer it.

But Kylos saber is Black the one he had as Ben is Silver. Unless he took the crystal out and put it in a new hilt... I think it is a different saber altogether.
@Lamiller1390

Kylo's current lightsaber is a modified version of Ben's lightsaber with an added crossguard, otherwise the design is exactly the same. In some places the black colour is chipping off and it looks like it's silver underneath. Either he kept his old lightsaber and modified it or he made a new one that looks similar to the old one. Ben definitely did not use Anakin's lightsaber when Luke attacked him.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Lamiller1390 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 12:54 am

@Forsythia Just curious where I can find that information?
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by panki on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 4:07 am

@Lamiller1390

Canon Lightsaber crystal lore,how a crystal is bled to make it red etc. is dealt in detail with in the Darth Vader: dark Lord of the Sith comics... The Ahsoka novel also gives some information on lightsaber crystals.

I agree with @Forsythia.... the design of Ben's lightsaber hilt in the flashbacks looks different from Anakin's lightsaber.

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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by fuhry on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:27 am

Maybe the answer is that Kylo modified his lightsaber and bled the crystal, but to the casual observer of TFA and TLJ, it would appear that Kylo had Luke's old blue lightsaber when Luke appeared by his bed brandishing his green one.

Later, in TFA, Kylo has a black hilted red crossguard saber. When he sees the Skywalker saber, he proclaims that it belongs to him.

Later, in TLJ, Luke appears on Crait brandishing the blue saber, not his green one. Why would Luke create the vision that way? Probably to further inflame Kylo into losing his grip on reality. We never do see the green lightsaber in the present day.

The most obvious conclusion is that when Ben destroyed and escaped the temple, he left without the blue Skywalker saber. And Luke didn't take it either when he left for Atch-to. I imagine that Luke left both the blue one and his green one in the ruins of his temple, and that somehow Maz got a hold of the blue one.

It's definitely a mystery though. I can't see much narrative purpose to explaining it.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Forsythia on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:01 am

To me it's weird to assume that Ben had Anakin's old lightsaber just because of the blue blade. Lots of Jedi had blue blades and since Ben was still on the light side, he obviously wouldn't have used a red blade at that time. The hilt tells us much more about a lightsaber than the blade. Kylo is also not the first character to rebuild his lightsaber with a similar design. Obi-Wan and Anakin also both based their second lightsabers on their first ones.

If Ben was meant to have used the Skywalker lightsaber, they would have let him use the Skywalker lightsaber in the film rather than create a new lightsaber that looks more like Kylo's lightsaber just for one scene. Why put so much effort in making a new prop when there was no need for a new prop?

Luke using a blue lightsaber on Crait made no sense. I didn't get a good look at his hilt, but I assume it was the Skywalker lightsaber and meant to be a clue, because at that point the Skywalker lightsaber was already broken in half and could not have been used by Luke, thus it tells us something is up.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Lamiller1390 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 3:30 pm

@Forsythia wrote:To me it's weird to assume that Ben had Anakin's old lightsaber just because of the blue blade. Lots of Jedi had blue blades and since Ben was still on the light side, he obviously wouldn't have used a red blade at that time. The hilt tells us much more about a lightsaber than the blade. Kylo is also not the first character to rebuild his lightsaber with a similar design. Obi-Wan and Anakin also both based their second lightsabers on their first ones.

If Ben was meant to have used the Skywalker lightsaber, they would have let him use the Skywalker lightsaber in the film rather than create a new lightsaber that looks more like Kylo's lightsaber just for one scene. Why put so much effort in making a new prop when there was no need for a new prop?

Luke using a blue lightsaber on Crait made no sense. I didn't get a good look at his hilt, but I assume it was the Skywalker lightsaber and meant to be a clue, because at that point the Skywalker lightsaber was already broken in half and could not have been used by Luke, thus it tells us something is up.
@Forsythia @fuhry

Exactly my point.

According to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ben_Solo%27s_lightsaber
(take with a grain of salt) Kylo constructed himself a New Lightsaber... he did not modify the one he had.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kylo_Ren%27s_lightsaber
The stuff here indicates what the official star wars page has listed.

I mean why wouldn't he have Anakin's old saber as he trained to be a Jedi? It only makes sense as a family heirloom at this point. Plus if that were the case it would explain a hell of a lot of Kylo's reaction to people who have it and why Luke used it in the last battle instead of his own.

That is just my opinion but it makes sense to me. He is incredibly possessive of that saber. How would he knows whose it was if he had not seen it or had it before... and why would he have seen it unless he was using it. Luke certainly was not and I doubt he'd just let something like that sit around...
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Forsythia on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 3:44 pm

The wiki isn't a reliable source though, anyone can edit it. It doesn't really matter if Ben modified his old saber or made a new one, they have a similar design and neither of them look anything like Anakin's old saber.

Maybe Ben always wanted to have Anakin's old lightsaber but Luke didn't let him use it for some reason Very Happy But I don't know why Ben even should have had Anakin's old saber. Luke lost it in ESB and build the green one, there was no reason for him to ever go looking for it. Maybe it was found by someone else and Kylo learned it was Anakin's, so he wanted to have it. Though why he would want to have Anakin's blue saber instead of Vader's red one is also a mystery to me.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Lamiller1390 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 3:55 pm

@Forsythia wrote:The wiki isn't a reliable source though, anyone can edit it. It doesn't really matter if Ben modified his old saber or made a new one, they have a similar design and neither of them look anything like Anakin's old saber.

Maybe Ben always wanted to have Anakin's old lightsaber but Luke didn't let him use it for some reason Very Happy But I don't know why Ben even should have had Anakin's old saber. Luke lost it in ESB and build the green one, there was no reason for him to ever go looking for it. Maybe it was found by someone else and Kylo learned it was Anakin's, so he wanted to have it. Though why he would want to have Anakin's blue saber instead of Vader's red one is also a mystery to me.
@Forsythia

I just think it would be SO cool and very symbolic. Wishful thinking I guess.

Cause I mean just think of how symbolic that would be on so many levels. Hahaha.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by panki on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:17 am

@Forsythia wrote:The wiki isn't a reliable source though, anyone can edit it. It doesn't really matter if Ben modified his old saber or made a new one, they have a similar design and neither of them look anything like Anakin's old saber.

Maybe Ben always wanted to have Anakin's old lightsaber but Luke didn't let him use it for some reason Very Happy But I don't know why Ben even should have had Anakin's old saber. Luke lost it in ESB and build the green one, there was no reason for him to ever go looking for it. Maybe it was found by someone else and Kylo learned it was Anakin's, so he wanted to have it. Though why he would want to have Anakin's blue saber instead of Vader's red one is also a mystery to me.
@Forsythia

In the early scripts the lightsaber was owned by several people including a villager who almost burned his crops, the village leader, a wealthy collector etc..... maybe Ben Solo and the KOR heard his grandfather's lightsaber was in the possession of the 'clan leader' and he killed him in battle to claim it. (but Maz stole it away?)

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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Darth Dementor on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 9:58 pm

Before the final fight scene of The Force Awakens, Finn picks up Anakin Skywalker’s lightsaber to prepare to duel with Kylo Ren, Ren then says to Finn “That lightsaber, it belongs to me”. To me this implies fully that Kylo Ren knows all about that lightsaber and who it belonged to in the past. Now Kylo Ren has shown himself to be a pretty big fan of Darth Vader, who is his grandfather, and is probably well versed in Vader’s history. So it’s totally plausible that he also knew a great deal about Anakin’s life as well. But can we say that he knew so much that he could recognize a lightsaber that hasn’t been seen in over 30 years? Unless of course it had!

What If Ben Solo Trained With Anakin Skywalker's Lightsaber

The saber on Ben's nightstand that he used to defend himself against Luke looked just like Anakin's and Luke's.

Not to mention seeing it brought a strong reaction of anger and disgust from Han when he saw it. If it was solely Lukes then he wouldn't have showed so much emotion just from looking at it.

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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 7:14 pm

Hi Everyone,
Since the release of TLJ, we've gained new information about the Anakin lightsaber and maybe this is the place to continue this discussion? I can't find another thread specifically related to lightsabers that fits..
There has been sporadic discussion about the events of TLJ and what happens with the lightsabers in the general discussion threads - but they are so spread out, I thought maybe anyone else who is thinking about this might like to share their thoughts here in a thread specific to lightsabers..

I won't jump into all my thoughts on lightsabers at this point. lol.
I'll summarise in dot points the events of TLJ which involve lightsabers (I keep it complete and not edit).
Then, anyone can focus on what they like to discuss.
[Please correct me if I miss anything or get anything wrong - looking forward to the release of those dvds Smile ]
Here goes:
-TLJ starts with Rey in possession of the legacy saber (I'll call it that okay?)
-Rey hands it to Luke.
-Luke tosses it over his shoulder.
-Porgs try to light it (lol) and Rey retrieves it.
Next scene:
-Rey is training with her staff and she then retrieves the legacy saber from her backpack and trains with it/plays with it.
[she sees it sticking out of the backpack or does it call to her? not sure..]
-Rey explores using the lightsaber - culminating in her destroying the rocky outcrop. Watched on by Luke.
next scene:
-Rey force pulls the light saber out of her backpack and to her hand while fighting with Luke. She holds it up at him. Then lowers it.
-Rey again offers the light saber to Luke - for him to take it and go and try to redeem Ben Solo. He refuses it again.
Next scene:
-Rey gets in her escape pod coffin and ships herself off from the MF to the Supremacy - holding the legacy saber.
Next scene:
- In the elevator. Kylo/Ben holds the legacy saber.
Next scene:
- In the throne room, Snoke force pulls the legacy saber from Kylo/Ben's hand while he kneels and he places it on the arm rest of his throne.
- Rey calls the light saber to her, it flies around her, Snoke still controlling it. It hits her in the head, and returns to the arm rest next to Snoke.
- Rey calls the crossbow light saber to her to fight.
- (I think) Snoke force pulls the crossbow lightsaber away and it lands on the floor in front of Kylo/Ben.
- Kylo/Ben picks up the crossbow lightsaber - turning it in his hand. Simultaneously, he turns the legacy saber sitting on the armrest using his other hand to force control it.
- Kylo/Ben ignites the legacy saber stabbing Snoke. He force pulls it toward him and Rey slicing Snoke in two.
- Rey catches the legacy saber.
- The fight with the PGs is on. Rey with the legacy saber, and Kylo/Ben with the crossbow saber.
- toward the end of the fight, Kylo/Ben loses his crossbow saber and fights without it.
- Rey finishes her fight.. sees Kylo/Ben needs a saber. She calls his name and throws the legacy saber to him. (I think he also force pulls it - it's not just a simple throw as when it leaves her hand it is ignited which I thought was really interesting)
- he catches it, and with a quick on/off he blasts a hole through the head of the last PG.
- Kylo/Ben now has the legacy saber in his left hand. He approaches Snoke's corpse taking in what's happened. I saw his crossbow saber on the floor in the middle of the throne room as he did this.. but waiting for dvds or someone else to confirm this. [The final time I saw the movie this was the one thing i really wanted to look out for! where are the sabers in these moments]
-Kylo/Ben walks toward Rey - his crossbow saber now latched on the right side of his belt (we don't see him retrieve it), and the legacy saber in his left hand.
- Rey calls the legacy saber to her.
- Kylo/Ben then responds by also calling the legacy saber to him.
- it's caught in mid air between them.
- they both fight over it with increasing intensity.. and the lightsaber hums/vibrates in tension right between the two of them. Both are intent on wanting/calling the legacy saber.
- Finally, the legacy saber explodes with white light, knocking them both unconscious.
- Kylo/Ben wakes to find Rey gone. His crossbow saber at his side still.
- Next time we see the legacy saber is when Luke confronts Kylo/Ben on Crait. This is a projection of the legacy saber. Kylo/Ben fights with his crossbow saber.
- then, we find Rey holding two halves of the legacy saber on her lap on the MF - and find that it had split in two during their tug of war. We can see a blue crystal sticking out from one of the halves. [both halves? I couldn't see]
That's where TLJ ends...

After the events of TLJ, what are your thoughts on the light sabers now?
I'll get back here to share my own in time.. bye!
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