Lightsaber crystals: new canon

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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by thescavenger on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 4:14 am

I thought it was quite symbolic that the lightsaber broke in half but the crystal (the soul) didn't. There's so much you could take from that metaphor, and I couldn't even begin to list all of the things it could represent (eg. the Jedi Order, the Skywalker line, Ben Solo's soul, the galaxy itself). 

I think it's just fodder for JJ and Episode IX at this point of where he can take it symbolically. There's so many possibilities, and it would be great for him to carry it through the ST.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by giaciak2 on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:34 am

For me the sword represents their (Rey-Kylo) love but also the will of force. For Anakin the sword represented his life but also his love for Padme. Perhaps Padme could not do a lot by force, but Rey can pull the force to herself (more light?, more dark ? who can say it?), Rey can repay everything, also a sword .. also a broken heart (of Kylo), also half dark crystal (black diamond ?).. But this is only my opinion. You now I hope ... for Happy End :-) I love you Twisted Evil
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 5:05 pm

Hi @thescavenger and @giaciak2
Great to hear your thoughts!
The legacy saber splitting into two is wonderful symbolism- for the Rey and Kylo/Ben relationship, and also for Ben/Kylo maybe.. the idea at the end of TLJ that the two halves need to be put back together is wonderful Smile

Not long after seeing the movie, I shared my thinking on why the lightsaber split in two.. but now I can't find it.. lol. So I'll dig into it here.. this is likely going to be a bit lengthy..
I'll share my thinking but ... I'd also really like to everyone's take on WHY the lightsaber split in two as Rey and Kylo/Ben both called it to themselves. If you are interested in sharing too!  
I wish I could share an image of the light saber tug of war in the throne room.. but I can't source any.. I can't even find any fan art with this as the subject - which surprises me as it's IMHO a pivotal moment between them.. very curious..  [anyone know of any?]
I don't know if we'll ever get an answer to why Rey nor Kylo/Ben could call the lightsaber outright. It may be they leave it as a mystery and a wonderful symbolism. At this point I do have an idea about it that I'll share, but I'm aware that it may turn out to be like Snoke theories lol.. and go nowhere!

I haven't done a lot of reading about lightsabers, so if anyone can share insights here please do!
The little I've found out is that the kyber crystal in the lightsaber calls to a person. Whether this is on the planet where the crystals are retrieved or in an existing lightsaber that is preowned.
How a kyber crystal chooses it's 'owner' or 'user' is not clear to me. but it seems we know that over the millenia many kyber crystals have chosen their individual to wield them. Those individuals have been good, bad, jedi and sith. For me - a kyber crystal choosing you is not about whether you are worthy. I don't know why it chooses that person.. but it doesn't seem tied to worthiness.
in TFA the legacy saber called to Rey. It has chosen Rey [Maz even says literally that it was calling to her]
I can't find anywhere that says the kyber crystal can then swap owners, it doesn't seem to work like that. Usually the person has to die.. I think? anyone?

Here is how the star wars databank describes kyber crystals in lightsabers:
"At the heart of every Jedi lightsaber is a kyber crystal found on several planets, most notably the icebound caves of Ilum. This crystal is attuned to the Force, and connected to a Jedi Knight on a deeply personal level. In this way, a lightsaber is an extension of a Jedi's Force awareness. Because Jedi let the Force guide their selection of the crystal, the vibration that the crystal creates in the lightsaber blade helps Jedi center themselves and find balance in the Force. In this way, a Jedi can center his or her attention beyond the distractions of combat. A lightsaber crystal is colorless until first attuned and connected to a Jedi -- at which times it glows either blue or green, or in some rare instances, another shade. From that point on, it retains that hue."

'Deeply personal'.. wow-so interesting!

There are enough moments of force users calling other lightsabers that they do not own to themselves over the 8 movies, that I can see an individual's power in the force can also mean a lightsaber will go to them. Even if their 'owner' is calling it to themself.
In TLJ we saw Rey try to call the legacy saber to herself, but Snoke overrode this, and re-directed it back to himself (while giving Rey a nasty knock on the head with it).
In TLJ we also saw Rey call Kylo's light saber to herself.. but he was not calling it to himself at the same time.. but still.. interesting.

Rey and Kylo/Ben both call the legacy saber to themselves at the same time - it is caught between the two of them in a tug of war. I find this so interesting because to me it seems very unique - and unique can be informative Smile

It could be Kylo/Ben's power was strong enough to at least equal Rey's ownership of the saber. But if that is the case - why could he not call it at all in TFA? Could his powers have grown that much since then?

So... now I'll get on to my theory.. [It's just a theory!]
Lightsabers call to their owners/users - how the kyber crystal chose them we don't know. but they do.
In TFA the legacy saber chose Rey.
In TFA both Rey and Kylo/Ben are calling it at the same time, and it goes to Rey.
But, in TLJ they are both calling it at the same time and neither is able to call it to them outright. it's stuck between them both.
Why? Something is different. It seems something has changed between the SKB battle and the throne room.
What is new between Rey and Kylo/Ben? I think it's their force bond!! Smile

I understand some see this as forming in the interrogation. At the moment I take Snoke at his word [yes he was evil but I don't think he was lying] and think the force bond was formed after Kylo's defeat on SKB.
But- even if the force bond was formed in the interrogation, I could argue that it strengthens over time.. the strength of the force bond would be different between when Rey calls the saber on SKB and when Rey and Kylo/Ben fight over it in the throne room anyway.
So either way it works- I think.

So how could it be the force bond is the reason for the lightsaber splitting? Okay this is where things get a little err abstract and deeeep!  
When I think of the force bond I visualise it as a connection between them - like a string that ties them together.. many of us do, as I can see from comments and fan fics!
Rey is Rey, and Kylo/Ben is Kylo/Ben - and then combined we have Reylo Smile
So there are individual identities and then there is a combined identity -  due to the force bond. If we stick with Yin and Yang, there are the two sides and the combined circle.

Getting back to the lightsaber/kyber crystal being caught in suspension between Rey and Kylo/Ben...
My theory is that the force bond means their identities in the force are intertwined with each other as well as having a combined identity- so much so that the kyber crystal does not know which person calling it is 'Rey' anymore..
The databank refers to the connection the user has with the crystal as 'deeply personal' - identity in the force is deeply personal- no?
Maybe they are so intertwined they are indistinguishable to the kyber crystal and it thinks there are two Rey's in opposite directions calling it at the same time. So it's stuck. Doesn't know where to go..
The intertwining can be visualised a bit like a spiral of two colours intertwined together into a rope maybe...  On both sides of the lightsaber there is the same rope of intertwined identities.. because of the force bond- so how can it pick a side to go to?
I guess to test this theory, I'd need to see the same thing happen with Kylo's lightsaber.. but we didn't get to see them both call it at the same time! For me, the tug of war over the kyber crystal illustrates how deeply intertwined Rey and Kylo/Ben are now in the force, they are permanently changed by the bond and together they have become something new...  

So this is my theory... Do please share your own or any lightsaber information which can shed a light on things!
If you've read this far: thanks! Smile

Question:
Lastly, when Rey is holding the two pieces of the legacy saber on her lap - I could see one side had a crystal sticking out. I couldn't see both ends of the other side though. Did anyone else see this?
This is maybe one for when the dvds come up - but at this point I am not sure if the lightsaber only split in two, or if the crystal itself has split in two.
It would be wonderful symbolism in IX if they each got a half of the kyber crystal wouldn't it??!!!

Now I think about it - when I tie this idea to the reference to the kyber crystal helping the individual wielder of the light saber to find balance in the force - I think this could fit well together with both Rey and Kylo/Ben each using half of the same kyber crystal to aid their balance. no?


Last edited by DeeBee on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Moonlight13 on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 6:44 pm

@DeeBee
@DeeBee wrote:
Getting back to the lightsaber/kyber crystal being caught in suspension between Rey and Kylo/Ben...
My theory is that the force bond means their identities in the force are intertwined with each other as well as having a combined identity- so much so that the kyber crystal does not know which person calling it is 'Rey' anymore..
The databank refers to the connection the user has with the crystal as 'deeply personal' - identity in the force is deeply personal- no?
Maybe they are so intertwined they are indistinguishable to the kyber crystal and it thinks there are two Rey's in opposite directions calling it at the same time. So it's stuck. Doesn't know where to go..
The intertwining can be visualised a bit like a spiral of two colours intertwined together into a rope maybe...  On both sides of the lightsaber there is the same rope of intertwined identities.. because of the force bond- so how can it pick a side to go to?
I guess to test this theory, I'd need to see the same thing happen with Kylo's lightsaber.. but we didn't get to see them both call it at the same time! For me, the tug of war over the kyber crystal illustrates how deeply intertwined Rey and Kylo/Ben are now in the force, they are permanently changed by the bond and together they have become something new...  
Now I think about it - when I tie this idea to the reference to the kyber crystal helping the individual wielder of the light saber to find balance in the force - I think this could fit well together with both Rey and Kylo/Ben each using half of the same kyber crystal to aid their balance. no?
I think your theory is very interesting. Smile

Lastly, when Rey is holding the two pieces of the legacy saber on her lap - I could see one side had a crystal sticking out. I couldn't see both ends of the other side though. Did anyone else see this?
We only get to see that side. I think the other side is facing the other way.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 5:40 pm

@Moonlight13 wrote:@DeeBee
@DeeBee wrote:
Getting back to the lightsaber/kyber crystal being caught in suspension between Rey and Kylo/Ben...
My theory is that the force bond means their identities in the force are intertwined with each other as well as having a combined identity- so much so that the kyber crystal does not know which person calling it is 'Rey' anymore..
The databank refers to the connection the user has with the crystal as 'deeply personal' - identity in the force is deeply personal- no?
Maybe they are so intertwined they are indistinguishable to the kyber crystal and it thinks there are two Rey's in opposite directions calling it at the same time. So it's stuck. Doesn't know where to go..
The intertwining can be visualised a bit like a spiral of two colours intertwined together into a rope maybe...  On both sides of the lightsaber there is the same rope of intertwined identities.. because of the force bond- so how can it pick a side to go to?
I guess to test this theory, I'd need to see the same thing happen with Kylo's lightsaber.. but we didn't get to see them both call it at the same time! For me, the tug of war over the kyber crystal illustrates how deeply intertwined Rey and Kylo/Ben are now in the force, they are permanently changed by the bond and together they have become something new...  
Now I think about it - when I tie this idea to the reference to the kyber crystal helping the individual wielder of the light saber to find balance in the force - I think this could fit well together with both Rey and Kylo/Ben each using half of the same kyber crystal to aid their balance. no?
I think your theory is very interesting. Smile

Lastly, when Rey is holding the two pieces of the legacy saber on her lap - I could see one side had a crystal sticking out. I couldn't see both ends of the other side though. Did anyone else see this?
We only get to see that side. I think the other side is facing the other way.
@Moonlight13

Hi Moonlight13 - thanks for sharing what you saw or didn't see of the broken lightsaber/ kyber crystal! Smile
I'm really looking forward to seeing this play out in IX.

Is it just me or is there pretty much silence about this tug of war over the legacy saber in the media? I'm not really carefully following things, but seems at the moment like no one is talking about it.
When.. the big moment in TFA where Rey calls the saber - and it goes to her and not Kylo was talked about no end.
If I had twitter.. I'd ask RJ about it. I really hope someone asks him about it!!
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Teo oswald on Sat 27 Jan 2018, 4:47 am

the only certainty I know is that kyber crystal is fully intact and not cracked  , so at the very least Kyber crystal is working and in a good conditions. Smile
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Sat 27 Jan 2018, 10:19 pm

@Teo oswald wrote:the only certainty I know is that kyber crystal is fully intact and not cracked  , so at the very least Kyber crystal is working and in a good conditions. Smile
@Teo oswald

Hi Teo Oswald - thanks for your reply!
How are you certain the kyber crystal is fully intact and not cracked? What did you see?

I'm wondering if it has been split in two. could we tell?
From what i saw, I can't say for sure if the crystal is whole. It may be. I just don't know.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 4:24 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@Teo oswald wrote:the only certainty I know is that kyber crystal is fully intact and not cracked  , so at the very least Kyber crystal is working and in a good conditions. Smile
@Teo oswald

Hi Teo Oswald - thanks for your reply!
How are you certain the kyber crystal is fully intact and not cracked? What did you see?

I'm wondering if it has been split in two. could we tell?
From what i saw, I can't say for sure if the crystal is whole. It may be. I just don't know.
@DeeBee

it is my feeling that the kyber crystal is intact because of this image  

we clearly see the crystal there, yes I know the image is not clear, perhaps what I say is wrong
moreover I also based on this old image

What do you think about this . ? Smile
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 5:34 am

@Teo oswald wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
@Teo oswald wrote:the only certainty I know is that kyber crystal is fully intact and not cracked  , so at the very least Kyber crystal is working and in a good conditions. Smile
@Teo oswald

Hi Teo Oswald - thanks for your reply!
How are you certain the kyber crystal is fully intact and not cracked? What did you see?

I'm wondering if it has been split in two. could we tell?
From what i saw, I can't say for sure if the crystal is whole. It may be. I just don't know.
@DeeBee

it is my feeling that the kyber crystal is intact because of this image  

we clearly see the crystal there, yes I know the image is not clear, perhaps what I say is wrong
moreover I also based on this old image

What do you think about this . ? Smile
@Teo oswald

Hey cool photo Teo Oswald! And cool diagram! Thanks for sharing!
It does look like the kyber crystal is sticking out at about the height of the diagram where the complete crystal could sit.
I honestly don't know if the kyber crystal is fully intact at this point, but from your photo - it looks very possible that it is.
From the looks of your diagram - there is two crystals - a focusing crystal and the primary crystal. Hmm! So I guess the Kyber crystal is the heart of the light saber and therefore the primary crystal - would anyone agree? or disagree? Have I understood correctly? Maybe this is just some lightsabers..I don't know!

I think I would not rule out the possibility that the kyber crystal has split in two- even if it is unlikely.. given its the kyber crystal that would have been responding to the calls of Rey and Kylo/Ben it seems likely to me that this would be the source of the blast. To totally rule the split out, I'd like to see inside the other half. lol. But.. I think I'm going to need to wait till IX to find out.

It's fun to explore the possibilities and potential meanings - especially with something so mysterious and under explained as the light saber splitting in half! Smile
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 9:47 am

as you said, the kyber crystal is the heart of the lighsaber, then there is a component called "focusing crystal."

I believe that focusing cristal is used to concentrate the energy of the primary kyber crystal and shoot it out.
This is kylo's lightsaber

as you can see there is only one crystal, cracked crystal.
this is a replica of Anakin's lightsaber



in this last image we can see the two crystals, now look at the two crystals and then
  re-watch this image  . in Rey's right hand there is the other blue crystal, you can see little because the image quality is poor but it is there . kyber cristal is good not cracked
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by nickandnora on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 9:55 am

Is it a pretty common prediction that because of the nature of the the way it broke, Rey's only going to be able to reconstruct a two-sided lightsaber (or that she's going to construct a two-sided saber by choice)? Either way, double lightsaber with a violet flame, yes?

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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:14 am

@nickandnora


This is my personal opinion but I think Rey ,a double lightsaber like Darth Maul , or Bastilla is perfect. In the previous episode you could see that she could not handle the weapon well because she was used to her weapon of Jakku. Also in this film she uses her old weapon and then the lightsaber. And then now the lightsaber belongs to her, she can modify it as she wish. This is another step to be a real Jedi. About the color...uhm....it will remain blue, it makes more sense to me:) Luke built another lightsaber because he lost it. Rey only has to fix it but well'see....
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Guest on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 12:51 pm

It looks like a couple of people have made copies of Ben Solo's blue Padawan lightsaber hilt, based on screenshots. I don't know how to add images, so I'll just post the links. To me Ben's blue lightsaber hilt looks just like Kylo's red lightsaber hilt, minus the side vents and colour. So does that mean that Kylo can weld? Did he weld on the side vents? I read somewhere that Kylo made the red lightsaber himself, without help. So did Ben make the hilt himself while he was training with Luke? Or did Ben have help with making the blue lightsaber, and then modified the blue hilt by himself into the red lightsaber? Is it the same crystal too in the blue and red saber? Since Kylo bled a crystal for the red saber, and it cracked.

https://i.imgur.com/rOuEkA2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aNRzHG7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vjGago5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/p7qnvmf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1mEi3fl.jpg

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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Man Without A Star on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 1:08 pm

@Crystalfox

Yup, I believe that the crossguard is really just him tinkering with his old lightsaber. He likes the crossguard design but does not really know how to it properly so he just repaints his old hilt, bleeds and cracks his crystal and adds the vents. That would explain the "crude construction by inexperienced hand" bit.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by MyOnlyHope on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 1:11 pm

Crystalfox wrote:It looks like a couple of people have made copies of Ben Solo's blue Padawan lightsaber hilt, based on screenshots. I don't know how to add images, so I'll just post the links. To me Ben's blue lightsaber hilt looks just like Kylo's red lightsaber hilt, minus the side vents and colour. So does that mean that Kylo can weld? Did he weld on the side vents? I read somewhere that Kylo made the red lightsaber himself, without help. So did Ben make the hilt himself while he was training with Luke? Or did Ben have help with making the blue lightsaber, and then modified the blue hilt by himself into the red lightsaber? Is it the same crystal too in the blue and red saber? Since Kylo bled a crystal for the red saber, and it cracked.

https://i.imgur.com/rOuEkA2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aNRzHG7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vjGago5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/p7qnvmf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1mEi3fl.jpg
@Crystalfox
These are really cool! It's nice to get a good look at Ben's design style. I like that you can see his unique style in both this one and the crossguard. The crossguard could be a repurposed version of this one, but I tend to think they're different. Ben probably made the first at Luke's bible camp (probably visiting a Jedi temple to retrieve his crystal like we saw Ezra do, for example). They're just similar because the same guy made both IMO.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Guest on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 1:16 pm

@Man Without A Star wrote:@Crystalfox

Yup, I believe that the crossguard is really just him tinkering with his old lightsaber. He likes the crossguard design but does not really know how to  it properly so he just repaints his old hilt, bleeds and cracks his crystal and adds the vents.  That would explain the "crude construction by inexperienced hand" bit.
@Man Without A Star

Thanks. That could be it.


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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Guest on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 1:20 pm

@MyOnlyHope wrote:
Crystalfox wrote:It looks like a couple of people have made copies of Ben Solo's blue Padawan lightsaber hilt, based on screenshots. I don't know how to add images, so I'll just post the links. To me Ben's blue lightsaber hilt looks just like Kylo's red lightsaber hilt, minus the side vents and colour. So does that mean that Kylo can weld? Did he weld on the side vents? I read somewhere that Kylo made the red lightsaber himself, without help. So did Ben make the hilt himself while he was training with Luke? Or did Ben have help with making the blue lightsaber, and then modified the blue hilt by himself into the red lightsaber? Is it the same crystal too in the blue and red saber? Since Kylo bled a crystal for the red saber, and it cracked.

https://i.imgur.com/rOuEkA2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aNRzHG7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vjGago5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/p7qnvmf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1mEi3fl.jpg
@Crystalfox
These are really cool! It's nice to get a good look at Ben's design style. I like that you can see his unique style in both this one and the crossguard. The crossguard could be a repurposed version of this one, but I tend to think they're different. Ben probably made the first at Luke's bible camp (probably visiting a Jedi temple to retrieve his crystal like we saw Ezra do, for example). They're just similar because the same guy made both IMO.
@MyOnlyHope

You might be right. It could be two different hilts, and they just happen to look very similar. Yeah me too, I'm amazed that people can make such good copies just from blurry screenshots.


Last edited by Crystalfox on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 1:48 pm

and now I do not know which lightsaber I like most..... Ben's old one or kylo's ... uhm
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Dar-ren19 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 8:58 pm

@MeadowofAshes wrote:I think it's about worthiness, which has nothing to do with blood ties. Pulling the saber from the snow is an allusion to pulling the sword from the stone in Arthurian legend, as is the island surrounded by a body of water (Isle of Avalon). It's not a direct copy, so not every character lines up exactly with someone, but elements are alluded to. Ben Solo may have been worthy of the family saber, but Kylo Ren is not. When Arthur died the sword was taken back to the Lady of the Lake (sacred feminine) on Avalon to be guarded until his return. I think by having Rey pull the saber instead of Kylo and then take it to the island the writers mean for us to understand the saber is being saved for Ben Solo's return.

@MeadowofAshes beautifully stated! We even have Knights in this tale, AND a possible Lancelot Wink :p

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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:28 pm

Taking a lunch break to think about lightsabers. What a great distraction from RL!
@nickandnora wrote:Is it a pretty common prediction that because of the nature of the the way it broke, Rey's only going to be able to reconstruct a two-sided lightsaber (or that she's going to construct a two-sided saber by choice)? Either way, double lightsaber with a violet flame, yes?
@nickandnora
Yes it does seem common prediction. Makes sense!
Rey’s light saber in IX.
A staff is a logical choice huh... If the Anakin/Luke/Rey lightsabre crystal is cracked (at this point to me it is uncertain), then this might be an option I guess.
If it is not cracked, then I’m thinking Rey would need to find another Kyber crystal for a double sided lightsaber staff.. which might be tricky?
The purple saber could be very symbolic and lovely.. Windu was a jedi that drew on the light and occasionally a little of the dark wasn’t he? I think.. not sure..  Personally, I don’t mind the blue for Rey..but would love a golden/yellow saber.. just because her name is 'Rey'  Very Happy

In the book the Jedi Path, there are a range of light saber variations illustrated– one is a staff that is only one sided. This could be good for Rey – if she is able to remove the extension and convert it to a typical light saber?
Image of three Lightsaber variations:
The middle one could be good for Rey? Actually now I look at it more closely – the bottom tip looks very much like her staff in TFA and TLJ!! No?

Talking about lightsabers in IX – should this thread maybe move to the IX section Mods?

The Anakin/Luke kyber crystal in IX- Should it go to Ben or Rey?
There was a conversation on this forum about whether Rey or Ben should have the crystal out of the Anakin/Luke lightsaber.. but it’s not in this thread. Sorry, I can’t find it.
I remember reading some shared that they thought the crystal should be reclaimed by Ben – as a symbol of his redemption. What do you think? Do you think the crystal is Ben’s?

Also, I’ve seen comments here about worthiness playing a role in who a crystal/lightsaber belongs to. [ @MeadowofAshes  @ Dar-ren19 ]
I’ve reconsidered this - Maybe in a broad sense worthiness is a part of it.

-Worthiness-
From what I’ve seen in SW: Kyber crystals call out to their Jedi/ light side/ not fully dark owners..
[Events in the clone wars and rebels suggest it’s not just the dark phobic jedi -but maybe someone else can speak to this who is more knowledgeable than I?]
Sith or dark siders (I think) don’t have kyber crystals call to them. They get their crystals in two ways (I think?!):
1-They are either former jedi who then bleed their crystal (We saw this with Vader -maybe Kylo too?). They ‘bleed’ a crystal to bend the kyber crystal to their will/dominate them (as opposed to the will of the force I think), and this turned them red.
2-Sith used synthetic red kyber crystals.. so there was no need to call to an owner.

So in this broad sense it does seem kyber crystals only called out to force users who had adequate light in them.. and were not fully dark- and this could be considered ‘worthiness’ – how am I doing here? Am I making any sense? Lol!

-Choosing the owner-
Kyber crystals call out to their owner (who is not fully dark) and it is a very personal connection central to a force user’s identity in the force.
From what I’ve read I don’t think a kyber crystal would call to Rey, and then switch to calling to Kylo/Ben. I don’t think it has ever worked this way.. the crystal had chosen Rey and this was unambiguous in the TFA. We even had Maz straight out say it was calling to Rey.
So- Rey met the general requirement for a kyber crystal to call to her – she was not fully dark. And, the Anakin/Luke kyber crystal called out to her. Why her who knows. The will of the force maybe Surprised

Ben’s Lightsaber in IX
I love Kylo/Ben’s cross guard saber – and if he does end up with a different colour, whatever the crystal – I hope he’ll keep the design. it suits him Cool
I can see the attraction of Ben reclaiming the Anakin/Luke kyber crystal once he is redeemed and how that could be very symbolic and satisfying.
However – the crystal didn’t call to him. It called to Rey.
Another way to frame Kylo/Ben’s relationship with the Anakin/Luke kyber crystal is that he needs to accept the will of the force and let go of his perceived ownership of it. His bloodline has not given him that entitlement. I think this would be very powerful for his character. And could symbolise his letting go of the Vader legacy and wanting to forge his own path (and start something new!). Plus, accepting Rey’s ownership of it would be growth in how he accepts and values her as his counterpart in the force and how he views their relationship maybe?

But- we all want something satisfying to happen with Kylo/Ben’s light saber in IX, to tell the story of his redemption right? .. I’m 100% on board with that!
I’ll suggest a couple of alternative Ben lightsaber stories for IX.. [you come up with any?]
1) Ben could heal his current cracked crystal – and it could turn white (Like Ahsoka Tano did). But given it is already cracked I’m not sure if this is possible?
2) -my fave option haaa - Page 47 of the visual dictionary says Luke had a ‘recovered Jedi crusader pendant’ around his neck.. it held a ‘trophy made from fragmented Sith lightsabre crystal’
My guess? This kyber crystal is still on Ach-to and maybe it was Vader’s kyber crystal and Luke had recovered it somehow? How cool would it be if Ben went to Ach-to and he reclaimed it (can a bled kyber crystal call out? I really don’t know, but would be cool if it did call to Ben to be healed!) – Ben could heal Vader’s old crystal and it could turn white. If they go with this - it could symbolise Ben letting go of the Vader legacy, forging his own path - but also accepting the past for what it is. Warm fuzzies right there.

Lunch break over.. back to work for me! I'm so sorry that my comments seem to be so flippin long Embarassed


Last edited by DeeBee on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : comments cut off.. my bad..)
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by giaciak2 on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 4:25 am

@Dar-ren19 wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:I think it's about worthiness, which has nothing to do with blood ties. Pulling the saber from the snow is an allusion to pulling the sword from the stone in Arthurian legend, as is the island surrounded by a body of water (Isle of Avalon). It's not a direct copy, so not every character lines up exactly with someone, but elements are alluded to. Ben Solo may have been worthy of the family saber, but Kylo Ren is not. When Arthur died the sword was taken back to the Lady of the Lake (sacred feminine) on Avalon to be guarded until his return. I think by having Rey pull the saber instead of Kylo and then take it to the island the writers mean for us to understand the saber is being saved for Ben Solo's return.

@MeadowofAshes beautifully stated! We even have Knights in this tale, AND a possible Lancelot Wink :p

@Dar-ren19 @MeadowofAshes

WOW, you're a genius! I really like what you said and it seems very plausible.


I came back to this place for the third time. I like the intuition of the lake woman too much. Now I hang it in my room.
It occurs to me that if your hypothesis is true, we can expect other knights (Knights REN). A round table to discuss together (a new republic ?, a form of democracy?).
I only hope that Finn is not Lancelot ... Because I don't want this redeemed King Arthur (Ben Solo) has any more betrayals.


@DeeBee wrote:
2) -my fave option haaa - Page 47 of the visual dictionary says Luke had a ‘recovered Jedi crusader pendant’ around his neck.. it held a ‘trophy made from fragmented Sith lightsabre crystal’
My guess? This kyber crystal is still on Ach-to and maybe it was Vader’s kyber crystal and Luke had recovered it somehow? How cool would it be if Ben went to Ach-to and he reclaimed it (can a bled kyber crystal call out? I really don’t know, but would be cool if it did call to Ben to be healed!) – Ben could heal Vader’s old crystal and it could turn white. If they go with this - it could symbolise Ben letting go of the Vader legacy, forging his own path  - but also accepting the past for what it is. Warm fuzzies right there.

Lunch break over.. back to work for me! I'm so sorry that my comments seem to be so flippin long Embarassed
@DeeBee It would be beautiful. I hope that JJ Abrams is here with us to get some ideas.

@Teo oswald Thank you for beautiful images!
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 1:36 am

@DeeBee wrote: ... I can see the attraction of Ben reclaiming the Anakin/Luke kyber crystal once he is redeemed and how that could be very symbolic and satisfying. However – the crystal didn’t call to him. It called to Rey.
Another way to frame Kylo/Ben’s relationship with the Anakin/Luke kyber crystal is that he needs to accept the will of the force and let go of his perceived ownership of it. His bloodline has not given him that entitlement. I think this would be very powerful for his character. And could symbolise his letting go of the Vader legacy and wanting to forge his own path (and start something new!). Plus, accepting Rey’s ownership of it would be growth in how he accepts and values her as his counterpart in the force and how he views their relationship maybe?
Yes lol quoting myself.. haaaa.. In the Legal images thread I've just come across (fabulous thread!!!! http://reylo.skyforum.net/t25-legal-image-thread ), I came across this gif:

I think it is the perfect moment to illustrate what I was saying in the above quote about Kylo and his (IMHO misguided and arrogant) sense of entitlement over the Anakin/Luke lightsaber!
I'm really connecting with the meaning of a kyber crystal - the way it calls to it's owner and the 'deeply personal' relationship they have between each other and the force. IMHO The kyber crystal is not an object you can literally own - or inherit in the usual sense - because it is a relationship.
To me, this makes the breaking in half of Rey's lightsaber in TLJ even more sad.. It makes me wonder if instead of representing the Rey and Kylo/Ben relationship - it instead represents Rey's heart. Because the Kyber crystal called to her, is in relationship with her.. and is deeply personally connected to her.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by Let The Past Die on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 2:05 am

I thought this screenshot was relevant to this thread , hopefully it will work, I don't have much success with posting images.
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 10:53 pm

@Let The Past Die wrote:I thought this screenshot was relevant to this thread , hopefully it will work, I don't have much success with posting images.
@Let The Past Die

Success! Thanks for sharing Let the Past Die!
I'm preferring the one sided staff lightsaber.. if two are needed this may make a double sided less likely.. I don't know.. but whatever we get I'm sure it will be awesome!
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Re: Lightsaber crystals: new canon

Post by DeeBee on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:14 am

Hi Everyone, I just watched a vid called 'Star Wars Symbolism: Lightsabers' which @Darth Dementor shared in this thread.
http://reylo.skyforum.net/t170p125-general-discussion-canon-novels-comics-short-stories#187261
If you are interested in lightsabers you'll be interested in this vid.

I cannot wait to see what the novelisations make of the light saber splitting scene ... and what the description of the two pieces is like. Maybe it will mention if the crystal is cracked (but then, being the novelisation, can I believe it?! ) Can someone share this with us if you get your hands on it?

I am most excited to see what RJ's commentary says about this!

Why is there talk about why Luke projected the blue and not the green? but little to no talk of what happened when the lightsaber split? Hmm.. Why has no one asked RJ about this??!!!

I was thinking.. we may never know the mechanism for exactly why it happened [the 'worthy' theory doesn't resonate with me, but I appreciate it does for others] - it may just be like when the ground on starkiller split up Rey and Kylo/Ben at the end of TFA.

The force didn't want either of them to have it and use it on the other? Because the force seems to want to protect these two from really hurting each other.. that might be as deep as it gets.. oh well, it's fun to ponder.
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