ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 12

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Post by Gemini on Mon 31 Oct - 20:29

The destruction of the planet:

"Light is being brought back to this corner of the galaxy" - jj Abrams:p
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 31 Oct - 20:31

I think the force bond is more emotional and spiritual than skill oriented in this case.
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Post by Gemini on Mon 31 Oct - 20:34

Oh damn this was meant to go in the other thread lmao my mad
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Post by panki on Mon 31 Oct - 20:38

@spacebaby45678 wrote:I think the force bond is more emotional and spiritual than skill oriented in this case.
@spacebaby45678

There is no distinction between an emotional/spiritual force bond and a skill oriented one in EU and canon....a force bond is a force bond. The people having a force bond share everything- emotions, thoughts, skills etc..... I can quote more from Dark Disciple on how a force bond covers a multitude of facets but I think the Yoda quote said it all.

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 31 Oct - 20:43

@IoJovi wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@darth Dingbat Also, Reylo got much more canon evidence since February when Force Bond theory was all rage, so it really isn't needed to give Reylo credibility. It would be interesting to explore it, but it isn't a must-have that the pairing can't do without.

personally, I'm much happier that Rey and Kylo will be physically together on Ahch-to than that they communicated through Force bond. In fact, I'm over the moon.
@vaderito

This is so true. Nearly every single Reylo fic I've read involves the Force bond in form or another, but narrative wise I don't think it's absolutely necessary for them to understand one another. I DO think Rey will see something else in his head that will garner her sympathy, but this isn't exactly the same thing as a Force bond where they are aware of each other's feelings every waking moment.
@IoJovi

Count me as one who thinks that there could be a Force bond, but I've dialed back my expectations for that likelihood. There really isn't any evidence yet that says that there is one, but that doesn't negate the possibility, either. "We'll see," I guess.

What I want to know, however, is how does Kylo find Rey on Ahch-To? Did he sneak the map out of Rey while they were "finding the Force or whatever"? Did they track the Falcon? Spy in the Resistance? Did Kylo spend hours in the Imperial Archives trying to figure out what planet's landscape matched up with the island that Rey envisioned in her mind???

Early theories on "how he finds them" centered around FB...so are those still on the table?
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Post by snufkin on Mon 31 Oct - 20:49

@ISeeAnIsland - Facebook stalking. Which BTW, he's totally *not* jealous at all about that profile picture of her with Poe's arm around her.
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Post by Guest on Mon 31 Oct - 21:05

Snoke in the novelization: "The elements align, Kylo Ren. You alone are caught in the winds of the storm. Your bond is not just to Vader, but to Skywalker himself. Leia..."

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Post by LondonGal555 on Mon 31 Oct - 21:10

There is some type of connection according to the script

They're both surprised: they react to a feeling that passes between them.....a energy they recognize in each other.

Also they both have visions of each other and rey has had dreams of him. A very big connection it is.....either side force bond or something else.

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Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 31 Oct - 21:13

@LondonGal555 wrote:There is some type of connection according to the script

They're both surprised: they react to a feeling that passes between them.....a energy they recognize in each other.

Also they both have visions of each other and rey has had dreams of him. A very big connection it is.....either side force bond or something else.
@LondonGal555

Or something else emotional and spiritual
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Post by Saracene on Mon 31 Oct - 21:52

If JJ's explanation for Rey's mind trick in the commentary is all we're getting, that scene will never stop being lame for me, to be honest. "Training and effort? Who needs that? All you need to do is try it again and you're a pro in a couple of seconds". Blehhhhh.
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Post by Marchtwin on Mon 31 Oct - 21:54

Hey guys, long time no speak alien
I'm kinda late on J.J.'s commentary as I am on everything else (school sucks).
This just made my month. Will probably bake a cake.
Every party song I have on my pc is now on repeat.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 31 Oct - 21:57

@Marchtwin wrote:Hey guys, long time no speak alien
I'm kinda late on J.J.'s commentary as I am on everything else (school sucks).
This just made my month. Will probably bake a cake.
Every party song I have on my pc is now on repeat.
@Marchtwin

cheers cheers cheers
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 31 Oct - 21:58

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@LondonGal555 wrote:There is some type of connection according to the script

They're both surprised: they react to a feeling that passes between them.....a energy they recognize in each other.

Also they both have visions of each other and rey has had dreams of him. A very big connection it is.....either side force bond or something else.
@LondonGal555

Or something else emotional and spiritual
@spacebaby45678

How is a Force bond NOT spiritual? It's a binding connection through the Force.
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Post by Kessel on Mon 31 Oct - 22:08

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@LondonGal555 wrote:There is some type of connection according to the script

They're both surprised: they react to a feeling that passes between them.....a energy they recognize in each other.    

Also they both have visions of each other and rey has had dreams of him.    A very big connection it is.....either side force bond or something else.  
@LondonGal555

Or something else emotional and spiritual
@spacebaby45678

How is a Force bond NOT spiritual? It's a binding connection through the Force.
@Darth Dingbat

Agreed, a Force bond would be spiritual, first and foremost. It is a connection through a energy that "surrounds us and binds us."

I assume "everything" is connected through the Force on some level, but a Force bond seems like a more profound and targeted connection between brings. Since these beings can also utilize the Force, that's where skills between them may come into play, but the spiritual connection is first.
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Post by snufkin on Mon 31 Oct - 22:15

Interesting discussion because there's two moments in the script which talk about seeing something in another person, Han "sees a vulnerability" in Rey which touches/moves him. And later on there's the moment before "you're so lonely" of "THEY'RE BOTH SURPRISED: they react to a feeling that passes between them -- AN ENERGY THEY RECOGNIZE IN EACH OTHER."
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 31 Oct - 22:36

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@LondonGal555 wrote:There is some type of connection according to the script

They're both surprised: they react to a feeling that passes between them.....a energy they recognize in each other.

Also they both have visions of each other and rey has had dreams of him. A very big connection it is.....either side force bond or something else.
@LondonGal555

Or something else emotional and spiritual
@spacebaby45678

How is a Force bond NOT spiritual? It's a binding connection through the Force.
@Darth Dingbat

In my opinion the script is describing something else, not sure what I would call it... bond, force bond, feelings, spiritual connection, something none of us here may have the words for yet, the story has yet to be told

"The script for the movie was released, including the subtext for the moment Kylo Ren tries to shove his way into Rey's memories and the two of them both pause, a little bit stunned: They react to a feeling that passes between them, an energy they recognize in each other."
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Post by LondonGal555 on Mon 31 Oct - 22:37

She dreams of him too....a daydream a nightmare. There's a profound connection if she's dreaming of a man she's never met before(JJ confirmed it they've never met)
Also Rey had visions of adult kylo when touching a lightsaber. That boy rey saw in the hallway(in the book) I think was a young kylo aka Ben also

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 31 Oct - 22:57

Posting this here, rather than in the podcasts thread, since it's a broader discussion point....

With more confident news recently of a FinnTran romance/FinnTran kiss, I could see FinnTran serving either of two purposes for Rey's story arc, depending on how the story unfolds:

  1. FinnTran serves as a contrast for Reylo (as has already been discussed a fair amount here). FinnTran is the euphoric/romcom/action-style romance, whereas Reylo is the slower burn, angsty romance.
  2. OR Depending on when Rey hooks back up with the Resistance, FinnTran could serve to further isolate Rey and emphasize her loneliness. Let's say that maybe Rey experiences some confusing/conflicting feelings about Kylo on Ahch-To, but they part ways before anything really happens, with Rey heading back to the Resistance. She shows back up, excited to see her friend Finn, but Finn is busy with his new GF, and Rey feels like a third wheel.


Based on the storytelling structure we got with TFA, I tend to think it'll be more of the contrast thing, but I do see the other as a possibility, too. Thoughts?
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Post by Darth Dementor on Mon 31 Oct - 23:35

@ISeeAnIsland,  I totally see FinnTran as another parallel for the Force Sensitive characters to be compared to.  Just like in TFA, Rey's interactions with Finn served to show how she reacted around around someone at the same level as her...Kylo. I see the same theme going in VIII, despite a different director.

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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 31 Oct - 23:59

I am part of the ones believing in a force bond but I prefer to call it connection because I don't think it will be on the level of force bonds forged between a master and his apprentice or Revan and Bastila. I think it will be their own special connection and most of it will be left a bit mysterious as in Leia just knowing that Luke was her brother. I can see Kylo and Rey just knowing certain things about each other. That mystery will leave fanboys crazy but I find that much more interesting. It's all between the 2 of them.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 1 Nov - 0:08

@creepi0 wrote:@Gemini
Both mind reading and mind control indeed different force ability. Ren actually mix/use both in the movie first he said some command to victim (mind control)
then he read their minds ( what happen to Rey and Poe)

mind control involving some command said to the victim to obey( Ren ask poe to show him the map and what he said to Rey in interoggation "I know you seen the map now you give it me" similar to what Rey and Obi wan do in ANH to stormtrooper) while mind reading usually did not involving some command ( what Ren did to Rey in takodana forest and what Vader did to Luke in ROTJ)

i think it still make sense that Rey  learned mind control from Kylo Ren mind

@creepi0

And it doesn't work'when he tries it. I think she gets the knowledge of it for sure but not her success with it. As I said, imo its her strength from herself, not kylos strength there.

But that's a good point. I didn't even realise that was him attempting to control her mind, good catch!
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 1 Nov - 0:11

@SanghaRen wrote:I am part of the ones believing in a force bond but I prefer to call it connection because I don't think it will be on the level of force bonds forged between a master and his apprentice or Revan and Bastila. I think it will be their own special connection and most of it will be left a bit mysterious as in Leia just knowing that Luke was her brother. I can see Kylo and Rey just knowing certain things about each other. That mystery will leave fanboys crazy but I find that much more interesting. It's all between the 2 of them.
@SanghaRen

I agree, I would like it if the existence of the connection is made clear, and it's made clear that it has to do with the Force, but the nature of the connection is never spelled out in any specific terms. I'm sure that whatever it is, it won't be called a Force bond. All I'm curious about is whether the connection has characteristics of a Force bond (such as sensing each others' thoughts and feelings, sharing skills, etc).

Because something mysterious like that feels more like "soulmates", doesn't it. Something fated but nobody knows exactly how or why.
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Post by Xylo Ren on Tue 1 Nov - 0:15

Halloween where I am!
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Saw five Vaders, two Reys, and six Kylos!

"But no one likes him, his merch doesn't sell"... (lol I will NEVER let that one die Laughing )
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Post by vaderito on Tue 1 Nov - 0:19

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:I am part of the ones believing in a force bond but I prefer to call it connection because I don't think it will be on the level of force bonds forged between a master and his apprentice or Revan and Bastila. I think it will be their own special connection and most of it will be left a bit mysterious as in Leia just knowing that Luke was her brother. I can see Kylo and Rey just knowing certain things about each other. That mystery will leave fanboys crazy but I find that much more interesting. It's all between the 2 of them.
@SanghaRen

I agree, I would like it if the existence of the connection is made clear, and it's made clear that it has to do with the Force, but the nature of the connection is never spelled out in any specific terms. I'm sure that whatever it is, it won't be called a Force bond. All I'm curious about is whether the connection has characteristics of a Force bond (such as sensing each others' thoughts and feelings, sharing skills, etc).

Because something mysterious like that feels more like "soulmates", doesn't it. Something fated but nobody knows exactly how or why.
@Darth Dingbat

We are at the movie #1 out of official 3 but we know they'll make more and guaranteed will try to get the whole cast back. So if they want to explore Force Bond between Rey and Kylo, they can do it in X-XII or spin-offs in case that thread is left open at the end of IX. They don't have to show all their cards in this trilogy. Set the stage, give hints and than explore it fully later.
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Post by LondonGal555 on Tue 1 Nov - 0:29

The formation of force bonds between a jedi master and a Padawan occurred slowly, requiring them to grow together and understand each other. More powerful bonds occur between family members.
Now my favorite part:
****************furthermore, connections were known to occur when one made to open to the force, or IMBUED by a powerful (kylo) wielded of the force*********************

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