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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 01 May 2017, 3:16 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:I wonder if this costume that looked like leather is Luke's "trash bag"?

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 Star_Wars_The_Last_Jedi_Mark_Hamill_Luke_Skywalker.0

And Kylo's cape in comparison:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 Tumblr_op3yrf6lBX1r8kwvso2_500
@Darth Dingbat

I bet that's exactly what they're referring to.  Both outfits are black leather, and the top of Kylo's looks a lot like what we can see on Luke.
@SoloSideCousin

Good catch. It could definitely be a "trash bag" piece of the puzzle.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 01 May 2017, 3:18 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:If Luke doesn't want to train Rey, I wonder how she could possibly trained in the ways of the Force. Hmmmm.... Confus
@ISeeAnIsland

With ominous words: It's time for Jedi to end it's clear to me that Luke is not willing to train her to become a Jedi. But, it doesn't rule out the possibility he's would accept to train her in the way of Force: the words from the trailer: "Breath, just breath, what do you see ?" points to me at least that Luke is still willing to be a kind of guide to her, but not necessary a mentor as the Jedi Master to his padawan. Which everybody and their mother has expected.
I think it all depends on what's Rey's connection to the Force - and how the new founded relation between Luke and Rey (which I definitely don't expect to be nice one - at least at the beginning) effects the arrival and the role of Kylo/Ben in all of it. I'am pretty sure that Kylo is somehow an important piece of the puzzle.
@Darth_Awakened

I was thinking more along the lines of if Luke doesn't want to train Rey, or doesn't want to train her beyond the basics, that would certainly make Kylo's offer a lot more attractive to Rey, assuming that his offer still stands and that things have evolved enough between them that Rey no longer sees Kylo as "the bad guy".
@ISeeAnIsland

Definitely a possibility at this point and regarding all of the info we got so far.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 01 May 2017, 3:21 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:And what about the "Dooku-like" costume Luke was supposed to wear at some point, per MSW? scratch
@Darth Dingbat

That sounds like the fancier outfit .... Oh wow, wait ... I just had a crazy thought. 

So we see Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher in that Oscar Isaac photo ... yet, Jason keeps saying that he doesn't see Luke having a reunion with Leia in the movie.  (He could be wrong, but let's just assume he's right for a moment).  Just because *Luke and Leia* don't reunite in real time in TLJ doesn't mean that Carrie and Mark didn't film scenes.

The Count Dooku outfit could be from a flashback scene where Luke met Leia in some fancier type of setting ... and remember @Sforza's report of the Ben-like boy looking up at the stars in Dubrovnik ... That scene along with Luke and Leia all dressed up could fit in some kind of flashback scene in Canto Bight ... which leads to me thinking of BdT.  Would we see him in the flashback ... and then later?

Also, on this "Luke doesn't want to train Rey", yet we hear him saying "Breathe, just breathe."  The vision from the "Breathe, just breathe," could be a test.  Then she sees stuff that Luke doesn't like, or that scares Luke, or makes Luke think she's dark or whatever, and then he refuses to train her.  Something like this would give credence to the idea that she is part of a prophecy if she sees something he has seen before ... perhaps it's a prophecy/vision that he learned of through Ben?

I have got to think that her vision has to include something to do with "the balance", like we saw in the trailer.  But if Luke is "pathologically light", he may want nothing to do with that "balance" vision ... and soooo .... and this is stretching it a bit, but if she is his only option to rebuild the Jedi, then he might think the Jedi is doomed because she would be a "corrupt" root, and as such, "the Jedi must end."  I think that there will be more to his statement "the Jedi must end" than that, but you never know.  It depends how stuck in his mindset he is.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 01 May 2017, 3:45 pm

This one looks like patchwork material:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 17934666_1895360787352787_2320848692938014720_n
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Post by Reynak on Mon 01 May 2017, 4:05 pm

@Helix wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:Well Kylo already took Vader's helmet and seems to have had Anakin's saber at some point, not sure why it's a stretch for him to have taken Luke's...
@Helix

Well, I can't begin to imagine how young Kylo could take the green lightsaber from the legendary Luke Skywalker. Stealing Vader relics seems plausible, but besting Luke and stealing his saber seems too much. Luke is still Luke, the hero who saved the galaxy. Too much for Kylo at 23. Perhaps now that he is 30 he might be a serious opponent for Luke but not back then.
@Reynak

I never said he took it from him in a fight. He may not have had it on him at all times, it's not a stretch to think he left it behind at whereever he was staying from time to time. I doubt he sleeps with it on. Wink
@Helix

Well, if his lightsaber was stolen from him while he was sleeping or having a shower a myth has just fallen for me, LOL
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Post by Helix on Mon 01 May 2017, 4:06 pm

@Reynak wrote:
@Helix

Well, if his lightsaber was stolen from him while he was sleeping or having a shower a myth has just fallen for me, LOL
@Reynak

I think what we see in the film will do worse than that. Laughing
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Post by Reynak on Mon 01 May 2017, 5:55 pm

@Helix wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix

Well, if his lightsaber was stolen from him while he was sleeping or having a shower a myth has just fallen for me, LOL
@Reynak

I think what we see in the film will do worse than that. Laughing
@Helix

Yeah, you're right. Kylo sucks at being a villain and if the spoilers are right Luke might suck at being a legendary hero. Probably Rey will suck at being a padawan too. The baddies are no better. Phasma and Hux were a disaster in TFA. We'll see, like Snoke says.


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Post by Helix on Mon 01 May 2017, 6:01 pm

Oh, I was thinking that maybe Luke kept his 'saber in an underwear drawer under his thongs, but that's better.

Vader is a bad villain role model, too. Being a darksider isn't very fun. Jedi aren't what we thought they were, etc.
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Post by kroi on Mon 01 May 2017, 9:55 pm

Hey all,

Just got done transcribing part of today's MSW podcast because there was a disagreement over what was actually said in another forum Wink and thought y'all would be interested in having a read as well! Very interesting stuff!!

Jason: "Maybe Luke is actually, I’m wondering if maybe Luke is up for it and then when he, ya know I told you guys or I told the audience that I’ve been promised we’re going to get that Luke Skywalker is going to train or tell Rey what her connection to the Force is, that’s the exact wording. It makes me think that what that is scares Luke. It makes me think that what that is, is not a settling thing to him. Maybe he was expecting it to be like ‘Hi, I’m Rey and I’m going to be the next Jedi’ and like that’s what he was thinking was coming to him but instead what comes is like ‘I’m the harbinger of the Jedi’ kind of thing like ‘the Jedi aren’t gonna be a thing anymore’ and maybe he’s pout raging when he’s like ‘it’s time for the Jedi to end’ because it’s just like it’s going that way if Rey is who she’s supposed to be. But I also got to say that when I ever I watch that TFA commentary and JJ says that Kylo Ren or Ben Solo kills his father and then immediately regrets it, I think that right there It’s almost like a promise that Ben Solo is still there, that he’s not Kylo Ren and it makes me wonder how are these things gonna collide and what is it gonna mean, because that’s what’s gonna happen."
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:05 am

@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:Well Kylo already took Vader's helmet and seems to have had Anakin's saber at some point, not sure why it's a stretch for him to have taken Luke's...
@Helix

Well, I can't begin to imagine how young Kylo could take the green lightsaber from the legendary Luke Skywalker. Stealing Vader relics seems plausible, but besting Luke and stealing his saber seems too much. Luke is still Luke, the hero who saved the galaxy. Too much for Kylo at 23. Perhaps now that he is 30 he might be a serious opponent for Luke but not back then.
@Reynak

I never said he took it from him in a fight. He may not have had it on him at all times, it's not a stretch to think he left it behind at whereever he was staying from time to time. I doubt he sleeps with it on. Wink
@Helix

Well, if his lightsaber was stolen from him while he was sleeping or having a shower a myth has just fallen for me, LOL
@Reynak

Just imagine if Kylo had bested Luke to steal his green saber, then Rey kicks Kylo's a**... why does she need Luke to teach her anything?

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 Tenor
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Post by panki on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:14 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:Well Kylo already took Vader's helmet and seems to have had Anakin's saber at some point, not sure why it's a stretch for him to have taken Luke's...
@Helix

Well, I can't begin to imagine how young Kylo could take the green lightsaber from the legendary Luke Skywalker. Stealing Vader relics seems plausible, but besting Luke and stealing his saber seems too much. Luke is still Luke, the hero who saved the galaxy. Too much for Kylo at 23. Perhaps now that he is 30 he might be a serious opponent for Luke but not back then.
@Reynak

I never said he took it from him in a fight. He may not have had it on him at all times, it's not a stretch to think he left it behind at whereever he was staying from time to time. I doubt he sleeps with it on. Wink
@Helix

Well, if his lightsaber was stolen from him while he was sleeping or having a shower a myth has just fallen for me, LOL
@Reynak

Just imagine if Kylo had bested Luke to steal his green saber, then Rey kicks Kylo's a**... why does she need Luke to teach her anything?

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 Tenor
@spacebaby45678

There can be many explanations for this, and not all involve Luke being weaker. For instance, maybe Kylo stole the lightsaber...or Luke surrendered the lightsaber because he didn't want to fight another relative (after Vader)....or even if Snoke taught Kylo skills to make him superior to Luke, its possible that Luke went to Ach-to and learned stuff that makes him even more powerful (which is why Snoke fears him).....so in any of these three scenarios, Luke is powerful enoough to teach Rey but Kylo could have stolen his ligthsaber.

Take the PT example of Yoda.....Palpatine disarmed him and his lightsaber fell to the floor of the senate and Yoda lost it....did that make Yoda a weak teacher for Luke? No, especially because his time on force strong Dagobah made him even more powerful than he was in the PT, and he didn't need a ligthsaber to prove it. The same logic could easily apply to Luke.

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Post by Helix on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:18 am

There's many ways it could happen as said above, but I'm really interested in how such a thing would impact Luke more than how it would happen. Also, Luke may not have had any reason not to trust Ben. I'm thinking we'll see him bittered by this sort of thing, he thought after his father he could steer Ben from this path. He's hesitant towards another powerful force user like Rey and he's probably closed himself off and possibly tried to make himself more powerful.


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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:19 am

@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:Well Kylo already took Vader's helmet and seems to have had Anakin's saber at some point, not sure why it's a stretch for him to have taken Luke's...
@Helix

Well, I can't begin to imagine how young Kylo could take the green lightsaber from the legendary Luke Skywalker. Stealing Vader relics seems plausible, but besting Luke and stealing his saber seems too much. Luke is still Luke, the hero who saved the galaxy. Too much for Kylo at 23. Perhaps now that he is 30 he might be a serious opponent for Luke but not back then.
@Reynak

I never said he took it from him in a fight. He may not have had it on him at all times, it's not a stretch to think he left it behind at whereever he was staying from time to time. I doubt he sleeps with it on. Wink
@Helix

Well, if his lightsaber was stolen from him while he was sleeping or having a shower a myth has just fallen for me, LOL
@Reynak

Just imagine if Kylo had bested Luke to steal his green saber, then Rey kicks Kylo's a**... why does she need Luke to teach her anything?

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 Tenor
@spacebaby45678

There can be many explanations for this, and not all involve Luke being weaker. For instance, maybe Kylo stole the lightsaber...or Luke surrendered the lightsaber because he didn't want to fight another relative (after Vader)....or even if Snoke taught Kylo skills to make him superior to Luke, its possible that Luke went to Ach-to and learned stuff that makes him even more powerful (which is why Snoke fears him).....so in any of these three scenarios, Luke is powerful enoough to teach Rey but Kylo could have stolen his ligthsaber.

Take the PT example of Yoda.....Palpatine disarmed him and his lightsaber fell to the floor of the senate and Yoda lost it....did that make Yoda a weak teacher for Luke? No, especially because his time on force strong Dagobah made him even more powerful than he was in the PT, and he didn't need a ligthsaber to prove it. The same logic could easily apply to Luke.
@panki

Not that I want to go around in circles about this, but you can't compare PT Palpy to teen Ben Solo..... Personally, I think Luke has his saber but chooses a path of non violence, that was symbolized by the throwing down of his saber in ROTJ.
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Post by panki on Tue 02 May 2017, 2:43 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:Well Kylo already took Vader's helmet and seems to have had Anakin's saber at some point, not sure why it's a stretch for him to have taken Luke's...
@Helix

Well, I can't begin to imagine how young Kylo could take the green lightsaber from the legendary Luke Skywalker. Stealing Vader relics seems plausible, but besting Luke and stealing his saber seems too much. Luke is still Luke, the hero who saved the galaxy. Too much for Kylo at 23. Perhaps now that he is 30 he might be a serious opponent for Luke but not back then.
@Reynak

I never said he took it from him in a fight. He may not have had it on him at all times, it's not a stretch to think he left it behind at whereever he was staying from time to time. I doubt he sleeps with it on. Wink
@Helix

Well, if his lightsaber was stolen from him while he was sleeping or having a shower a myth has just fallen for me, LOL
@Reynak

Just imagine if Kylo had bested Luke to steal his green saber, then Rey kicks Kylo's a**... why does she need Luke to teach her anything?

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 Tenor
@spacebaby45678

There can be many explanations for this, and not all involve Luke being weaker. For instance, maybe Kylo stole the lightsaber...or Luke surrendered the lightsaber because he didn't want to fight another relative (after Vader)....or even if Snoke taught Kylo skills to make him superior to Luke, its possible that Luke went to Ach-to and learned stuff that makes him even more powerful (which is why Snoke fears him).....so in any of these three scenarios, Luke is powerful enoough to teach Rey but Kylo could have stolen his ligthsaber.

Take the PT example of Yoda.....Palpatine disarmed him and his lightsaber fell to the floor of the senate and Yoda lost it....did that make Yoda a weak teacher for Luke? No, especially because his time on force strong Dagobah made him even more powerful than he was in the PT, and he didn't need a ligthsaber to prove it. The same logic could easily apply to Luke.
@panki

Not that I want to go around in circles about this, but you can't compare PT Palpy to teen Ben Solo..... Personally, I think Luke has his saber but chooses a path of non violence, that was symbolized by the throwing down of his saber in ROTJ.
@spacebaby45678

Just to clarify....I never compared Palps to Ben Solo. Only one of the scenarios I mentioned involved Ben defeating Luke in battle like Yoda was defeated by Palpatine. But as you just pointed out- Luke threw down his lightsaber in ROTJ.....he could have done to the same a second time and Ben Solo could have seized the lightsaber. There is no evidence that Luke has the lightsaber with him anymore and it is a callback to a powerful Yoda who no longer possessed a lightsaber in the OT. And I don't want to go in circles about this either. You have your views and I have mine.

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Post by SkyStar on Tue 02 May 2017, 2:58 am

@kroi wrote:Hey all,

Just got done transcribing part of today's MSW podcast because there was a disagreement over what was actually said in another forum Wink and thought y'all would be interested in having a read as well! Very interesting stuff!!

Jason: "Maybe Luke is actually, I’m wondering if maybe Luke is up for it and then when he, ya know I told you guys or I told the audience that I’ve been promised we’re going to get that Luke Skywalker is going to train or tell Rey what her connection to the Force is, that’s the exact wording. It makes me think that what that is scares Luke. It makes me think that what that is, is not a settling thing to him. Maybe he was expecting it to be like ‘Hi, I’m Rey and I’m going to be the next Jedi’ and like that’s what he was thinking was coming to him but instead what comes is like ‘I’m the harbinger of the Jedi’ kind of thing like ‘the Jedi aren’t gonna be a thing anymore’ and maybe he’s pout raging when he’s like ‘it’s time for the Jedi to end’ because it’s just like it’s going that way if Rey is who she’s supposed to be. But I also got to say that when I ever I watch that TFA commentary and JJ says that Kylo Ren or Ben Solo kills his father and then immediately regrets it, I think that right there It’s almost like a promise that Ben Solo is still there, that he’s not Kylo Ren and it makes me wonder how are these things gonna collide and what is it gonna mean, because that’s what’s gonna happen."
@kroi


Sith, Rey has bottled up her feelings of abandonment inside by always staying dedicated to some goal. Waiting for family, thinking it is a mistake, then finally finding a new quest - bringing Luke back, training to become a Jedi.
It would make sense with what Rian said, that Rey develops ar close connection to Luke, but then he rejects her, just the same as her family did. Probably of a reason that she does not even know herself and Luke will discover.  It is going to be painful.
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Post by SkyStar on Tue 02 May 2017, 4:45 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:And what about the "Dooku-like" costume Luke was supposed to wear at some point, per MSW? scratch
@Darth Dingbat

That sounds like the fancier outfit .... Oh wow, wait ... I just had a crazy thought.  

So we see Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher in that Oscar Isaac photo ... yet, Jason keeps saying that he doesn't see Luke having a reunion with Leia in the movie.  (He could be wrong, but let's just assume he's right for a moment).  Just because *Luke and Leia* don't reunite in real time in TLJ doesn't mean that Carrie and Mark didn't film scenes.

The Count Dooku outfit could be from a flashback scene where Luke met Leia in some fancier type of setting ... and remember @Sforza's report of the Ben-like boy looking up at the stars in Dubrovnik ... That scene along with Luke and Leia all dressed up could fit in some kind of flashback scene in Canto Bight ... which leads to me thinking of BdT.  Would we see him in the flashback ... and then later?
@SoloSideCousin

Jason said he knows Leia will have two costumes in TLJ - one is her general dress (he said that it is brown, but maybe it is the same one we saw in the BTS, because I think it is gray, but ok). The other is a black, witchy, medieval, gothic and yet modern at the same time. They speculated in the podcast that the dress is her mourning dress.
If your thought plays out to be true, it could be  the costume she wears while meeting Luke (Han could be absent because he could be too hurt to be there when parting with Ben, while Leia tries to comfort Ben, that everything is good, Han was just busy (to downplay the importance of sepparating and what it means for them, but loosing both of them at the same time).
The possibility of a scene like that reminds me of the first Star Trek where Spock is talking with his father. The whole Gothicness of Vulcan aesthetic shown in ST. A small child in this cold, emotionless, dark aesthetic:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 ST09CapConSept2

As in comparison to James Kirk more Rey-ish sandy and hot world:

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 036

p.s sorry for the double post was too tempted to throw some logs in the flame.
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Post by Guest on Tue 02 May 2017, 9:58 am

@panki wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
@Helix wrote:Well Kylo already took Vader's helmet and seems to have had Anakin's saber at some point, not sure why it's a stretch for him to have taken Luke's...
@Helix

Well, I can't begin to imagine how young Kylo could take the green lightsaber from the legendary Luke Skywalker. Stealing Vader relics seems plausible, but besting Luke and stealing his saber seems too much. Luke is still Luke, the hero who saved the galaxy. Too much for Kylo at 23. Perhaps now that he is 30 he might be a serious opponent for Luke but not back then.
@Reynak

I never said he took it from him in a fight. He may not have had it on him at all times, it's not a stretch to think he left it behind at whereever he was staying from time to time. I doubt he sleeps with it on. Wink
@Helix

Well, if his lightsaber was stolen from him while he was sleeping or having a shower a myth has just fallen for me, LOL
@Reynak

Just imagine if Kylo had bested Luke to steal his green saber, then Rey kicks Kylo's a**... why does she need Luke to teach her anything?

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 3 - Page 38 Tenor
@spacebaby45678

There can be many explanations for this, and not all involve Luke being weaker. For instance, maybe Kylo stole the lightsaber...or Luke surrendered the lightsaber because he didn't want to fight another relative (after Vader)....or even if Snoke taught Kylo skills to make him superior to Luke, its possible that Luke went to Ach-to and learned stuff that makes him even more powerful (which is why Snoke fears him).....so in any of these three scenarios, Luke is powerful enoough to teach Rey but Kylo could have stolen his ligthsaber.

Take the PT example of Yoda.....Palpatine disarmed him and his lightsaber fell to the floor of the senate and Yoda lost it....did that make Yoda a weak teacher for Luke? No, especially because his time on force strong Dagobah made him even more powerful than he was in the PT, and he didn't need a ligthsaber to prove it. The same logic could easily apply to Luke.
@panki

For all we know, Luke could have given Ben his lightsaber before anything bad happened.

I could certainly see a scenario where Luke had reached a stage where he eschewed the use of lightsabers altogether. His faith in his father's redemption was so strong, it could have led him to believing the Jedi should concentrate on following the light and not even using a lightsaber for defence. After all, they can become one with the force and carry on as Force ghosts. Luke also saw this through Obi-Wan. Yoda had also kind of reached that stage of enlightenment, even though he still had a lightsaber during the prequels era. But he was all "mourn them not..." etc about people dying. It could also explain why Kylo isn't as proficient with a lightsaber, and the construction of it, than you'd think he'd be if he's been Luke's apprentice since his teens or childhood. I also read some speculation elsewhere that maybe Kylo's cracked crystal in his lightsaber was taken and bled from Luke's lightsaber. I don't know how likely that might be because I'm not sure if that's what happens with kyber crystals. Interesting theory, though.

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Post by snufkin on Tue 02 May 2017, 11:33 am

I thought the whole point when Maz pulls out the saber and Han says "Where'd you get that?!" and looks like he's going to vomit is that it's connected to Ben. So it might've been passed down to him (maybe against Han's better instincts given his own history w/Vader) as some kind of family heirloom.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 02 May 2017, 12:01 pm

I'm happy Vincent credited you girls it's uch deserved and you didn't get your ish stolen like I did.

I like the video however I do somewhat agree with this tumblr post about it

http://holocroning.tumblr.com/post/160231198438/the-theory-actually-began-originally-as-a

Holocrons wrote: The theory actually began originally as a fanfiction. But as the reylo community grew, they started to realize that it may be more than just a fanfiction afterall.”
This is not what f****ing happened. This is insulting. We spent hours writing metas, drawing conclusions, analyzing that film. Many of us wrote dissertation-length pieces breaking down the subtext of the story, sourcing and evidencing our theories and articulating why we believed that was the route the story was going. Yes, it spawned fanfiction, and there is nothing wrong with fanfiction, but this is not what happened. Especially when in this context, “fanfiction” and “shipping” have been terms used to deride and insult so many of us for the last 16 months.
We did not gamble. We did not get lucky. We did not have chance on our side.
We used our brains, analyzed what we saw in front of us and articulated it into enough convincing words that people started feeling comfortable writing fanfiction and making art and shipping the ship when they had felt uncertain before.
This isn’t about whether or not reylo will be canon. This is about theories and speculation being regarded as “fanfiction” until a man gives voice to it. This is about how that video is going to be taken 10x more seriously (and probably viewed a lot more) than any of the metas and theories you all slaved over for the last year and a half, and how they’re all going to be swept under the rug along with all of the insults we’ve endured for publishing these opinions if reylo does become canon.
So no, I’m not thankful for this little pat on the back (or the lazy sourcing he included) because it’s actually a slap in the face. This was bound to happen, but it honestly stings a lot more than I thought it would and I’m seeing red.
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Post by snufkin on Tue 02 May 2017, 12:42 pm

@Gemini wrote:I'm happy Vincent credited you girls it's uch deserved and you didn't get your ish stolen like I did.

I like the video however I do somewhat agree with this tumblr post about it

http://holocroning.tumblr.com/post/160231198438/the-theory-actually-began-originally-as-a

Holocrons wrote: The theory actually began originally as a fanfiction. But as the reylo community grew, they started to realize that it may be more than just a fanfiction afterall.”
This is not what f****ing happened. This is insulting. We spent hours writing metas, drawing conclusions, analyzing that film. Many of us wrote dissertation-length pieces breaking down the subtext of the story, sourcing and evidencing our theories and articulating why we believed that was the route the story was going. Yes, it spawned fanfiction, and there is nothing wrong with fanfiction, but this is not what happened. Especially when in this context, “fanfiction” and “shipping” have been terms used to deride and insult so many of us for the last 16 months.
We did not gamble. We did not get lucky. We did not have chance on our side.
We used our brains, analyzed what we saw in front of us and articulated it into enough convincing words that people started feeling comfortable writing fanfiction and making art and shipping the ship when they had felt uncertain before.
This isn’t about whether or not reylo will be canon. This is about theories and speculation being regarded as “fanfiction” until a man gives voice to it. This is about how that video is going to be taken 10x more seriously (and probably viewed a lot more) than any of the metas and theories you all slaved over for the last year and a half, and how they’re all going to be swept under the rug along with all of the insults we’ve endured for publishing these opinions if reylo does become canon.
So no, I’m not thankful for this little pat on the back (or the lazy sourcing he included) because it’s actually a slap in the face. This was bound to happen, but it honestly stings a lot more than I thought it would and I’m seeing red.
@Gemini

Jesus, no kidding. Thanks for the credit but calling it fanfiction and shipping when no, many of us just used our brains. But sure, if a man talks about this stuff, then it's credible and not open to mocking.

Also I know some of the members here go back and forth on Tumblr, but I'd guess he's lurking here given the mentions of all the hearts and also the sexual subtext/choker shots for the cliffside scene.
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Post by Hasi on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:23 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@Gemini wrote:I'm happy Vincent credited you girls it's uch deserved and you didn't get your ish stolen like I did.

I like the video however I do somewhat agree with this tumblr post about it

http://holocroning.tumblr.com/post/160231198438/the-theory-actually-began-originally-as-a

Holocrons wrote: The theory actually began originally as a fanfiction. But as the reylo community grew, they started to realize that it may be more than just a fanfiction afterall.”
This is not what f****ing happened. This is insulting. We spent hours writing metas, drawing conclusions, analyzing that film. Many of us wrote dissertation-length pieces breaking down the subtext of the story, sourcing and evidencing our theories and articulating why we believed that was the route the story was going. Yes, it spawned fanfiction, and there is nothing wrong with fanfiction, but this is not what happened. Especially when in this context, “fanfiction” and “shipping” have been terms used to deride and insult so many of us for the last 16 months.
We did not gamble. We did not get lucky. We did not have chance on our side.
We used our brains, analyzed what we saw in front of us and articulated it into enough convincing words that people started feeling comfortable writing fanfiction and making art and shipping the ship when they had felt uncertain before.
This isn’t about whether or not reylo will be canon. This is about theories and speculation being regarded as “fanfiction” until a man gives voice to it. This is about how that video is going to be taken 10x more seriously (and probably viewed a lot more) than any of the metas and theories you all slaved over for the last year and a half, and how they’re all going to be swept under the rug along with all of the insults we’ve endured for publishing these opinions if reylo does become canon.
So no, I’m not thankful for this little pat on the back (or the lazy sourcing he included) because it’s actually a slap in the face. This was bound to happen, but it honestly stings a lot more than I thought it would and I’m seeing red.
@Gemini

Jesus, no kidding. Thanks for the credit but calling it fanfiction and shipping when no, many of us just used our brains. But sure, if a man talks about this stuff, then it's credible and not open to mocking.

Also I know some of the members here go back and forth on Tumblr, but I'd guess he's lurking here given the mentions of all the hearts and also the sexual subtext/choker shots for the cliffside scene.
@snufkin

Yes honestly it's a bit...A part of the audience saw Reylo on their first viewing and there were meta and theories back in December 2015 already, with reylo is not a matter of liking a ship and wishing for it to be canon but to see the movie and see where things are headed and what the tptb wanted to say. Even if I didn't like the idea of it, I would have still seen it and believe that this is where the story was heading. I do love to read Reylo fan fictions, also because I love the pairing and I ship them, but that doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't have seen the Reylo elements and foreshadowings in the movie if they weren't actually there in the first place. This make it sounds like some fangirls started writing fan fictions "because women always have to find a romance in anything" and then casually got lucky in guessing things along the way. At least contrary to other fanboys I don't think he said it in a malicious way.
Also edit because now I need to rant, the whole "fanboys know better" mentality sucks. Fan boys watch tfa and say crack things like "Rey and Kylo are twins" or "Rey is a clone from Luke's left nostril" and no one bats an eyelash, because fanboys really know what Star Wars is about, but as soon as a girl says "Rey and Kylo are the romance of this trilogy and they share a connection" (which IS there, right in the movie!) it gets labeled as a dumb fangirl fantasy and what do women know about space and Star Wars blah blah blah. Which sadly is nothing new but still it's so unfair and it makes me so angry.


Last edited by Hasi on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:47 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by IoJovi on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:26 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@Gemini wrote:I'm happy Vincent credited you girls it's uch deserved and you didn't get your ish stolen like I did.

I like the video however I do somewhat agree with this tumblr post about it

http://holocroning.tumblr.com/post/160231198438/the-theory-actually-began-originally-as-a

Holocrons wrote: The theory actually began originally as a fanfiction. But as the reylo community grew, they started to realize that it may be more than just a fanfiction afterall.”
This is not what f****ing happened. This is insulting. We spent hours writing metas, drawing conclusions, analyzing that film. Many of us wrote dissertation-length pieces breaking down the subtext of the story, sourcing and evidencing our theories and articulating why we believed that was the route the story was going. Yes, it spawned fanfiction, and there is nothing wrong with fanfiction, but this is not what happened. Especially when in this context, “fanfiction” and “shipping” have been terms used to deride and insult so many of us for the last 16 months.
We did not gamble. We did not get lucky. We did not have chance on our side.
We used our brains, analyzed what we saw in front of us and articulated it into enough convincing words that people started feeling comfortable writing fanfiction and making art and shipping the ship when they had felt uncertain before.
This isn’t about whether or not reylo will be canon. This is about theories and speculation being regarded as “fanfiction” until a man gives voice to it. This is about how that video is going to be taken 10x more seriously (and probably viewed a lot more) than any of the metas and theories you all slaved over for the last year and a half, and how they’re all going to be swept under the rug along with all of the insults we’ve endured for publishing these opinions if reylo does become canon.
So no, I’m not thankful for this little pat on the back (or the lazy sourcing he included) because it’s actually a slap in the face. This was bound to happen, but it honestly stings a lot more than I thought it would and I’m seeing red.
@Gemini

Jesus, no kidding. Thanks for the credit but calling it fanfiction and shipping when no, many of us just used our brains. But sure, if a man talks about this stuff, then it's credible and not open to mocking.

Also I know some of the members here go back and forth on Tumblr, but I'd guess he's lurking here given the mentions of all the hearts and also the sexual subtext/choker shots for the cliffside scene.
@snufkin

Rant coming. Reading Holocron's quote made my blood boil for her, because this is the SAME thought I have, Every...Single...Time...I see the fanboys look at our section as "fanfiction". And let me be clear - there's not a damn thing wrong with fanfiction, and yes, it is largely female dominated. It's just another word they use in an oh so condescending way so that they can keep us in our "place."

So no. We did not get lucky. We didn't pull this out of thin air. We saw something purposely put between these two characters by the fimmakers and rolled with it. I'm sorry this went over their heads, but rather than concede that we were right and they were wrong, they're still doing what they do best. It's disgusting.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:27 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@Gemini wrote:I'm happy Vincent credited you girls it's uch deserved and you didn't get your ish stolen like I did.

I like the video however I do somewhat agree with this tumblr post about it

http://holocroning.tumblr.com/post/160231198438/the-theory-actually-began-originally-as-a

Holocrons wrote: The theory actually began originally as a fanfiction. But as the reylo community grew, they started to realize that it may be more than just a fanfiction afterall.”
This is not what f****ing happened. This is insulting. We spent hours writing metas, drawing conclusions, analyzing that film. Many of us wrote dissertation-length pieces breaking down the subtext of the story, sourcing and evidencing our theories and articulating why we believed that was the route the story was going. Yes, it spawned fanfiction, and there is nothing wrong with fanfiction, but this is not what happened. Especially when in this context, “fanfiction” and “shipping” have been terms used to deride and insult so many of us for the last 16 months.
We did not gamble. We did not get lucky. We did not have chance on our side.
We used our brains, analyzed what we saw in front of us and articulated it into enough convincing words that people started feeling comfortable writing fanfiction and making art and shipping the ship when they had felt uncertain before.
This isn’t about whether or not reylo will be canon. This is about theories and speculation being regarded as “fanfiction” until a man gives voice to it. This is about how that video is going to be taken 10x more seriously (and probably viewed a lot more) than any of the metas and theories you all slaved over for the last year and a half, and how they’re all going to be swept under the rug along with all of the insults we’ve endured for publishing these opinions if reylo does become canon.
So no, I’m not thankful for this little pat on the back (or the lazy sourcing he included) because it’s actually a slap in the face. This was bound to happen, but it honestly stings a lot more than I thought it would and I’m seeing red.
@Gemini

Jesus, no kidding. Thanks for the credit but calling it fanfiction and shipping when no, many of us just used our brains. But sure, if a man talks about this stuff, then it's credible and not open to mocking.

Also I know some of the members here go back and forth on Tumblr, but I'd guess he's lurking here given the mentions of all the hearts and also the sexual subtext/choker shots for the cliffside scene.
@snufkin

I am pretty sure it was @gemini who highlighted the choker shots way back in Jan/2016 first, yet no shout out to her. Poorly sourced indeed!
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Post by ZioRen on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:33 pm

I almost would have preferred if they continued denying it and calling us emotional fanfiction writers with a stupid fangirl theory. Then at least they couldn't claim that they saw the light and turned fanfiction into a real theory after TLJ comes out and it's revealed that we were right.
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Post by IoJovi on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:37 pm

@spacebaby45678 On my first viewing, those choker shots were what told me where the central story in the ST was headed. No words were spoken and nothing was highlighted in big bold letters, but forme the message was clear as day. I sat up straight in my seat, wide eyed.

I was a goner from that point, hook, line and sinker.
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