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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 5 Dec - 7:23

Speaking of Luke, I would like to point out a possible parallel with Beauty & the Beast.

What if Luke was meant to parallel Maurice in some way ?
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1. Maurice lives with his daughter Belle away from the other villagers ==> We know thanks Han that Luke was training a new generation of Jedi,  probably apart from the rest of the galaxy. In TFA, he lives stranded on an island on Achch-To

2. Maurice is an inventor and is considered as a sort of wizard by the other villagers  ==> As a Jedi, Luke is also a sort of wizard. More important, he is the last Jedi.

3. Maurice intends to travel to the trade fair at the beginning of the movie ==> We knows thanks Bloodline that Luke was traveling around the galaxy

4. Maurice & Belle have a close relationship ==> Seeing Luke's reaction to the lightsaber (still with the assumption that Ben was the last owner), we may assume that Ben meant a lot for Luke.

5. Maurice is considered as crazy by the other villagers who wants to send him to the asylum ==> Well, Luke being a little crazy or at least special would make sense

More important:

I have always asked myself: why isn't Snoke so worried about Luke being alive somewhere in the galaxy?

1. The conversation between Kylo and Hux undertones that Snoke doesn't really want to acquire the map but rather to destroy it or at least keep it away from the Resistance

2. The conversation between Snoke and Hux confirms that Snoke is more worried to have the Resistance reaching out to Luke than having Luke alive.

This leads me to the following questions:
1. How the hell could Snoke be sure that Luke wouldn't come back from exile by himself to get involved in the fight against the FO?
2. How could he be sure  sure that Luke wasn't already training a new generation somewhere in the galaxy to continue the fight agains the FO?
3. Doesn't it make more sense to use the map to go after him and kill the last Jedi once and for all instead of only preventing the Resistance to reach out to him?

This leads me to the following speculation: what if Luke was forced into exile by Snoke himself and had no other choice than remaining stranded on this island with no means to return?

Here's the scene from BATB that may be an explanation about what could have happened in the past:


1. Maurice was traveling to the market trade when he got lost and found the Beast's castle

2. He comes in the castle and is supposed to steal a rose in the original story

3. He is kept as a prisoner by the Beast

4. Belle goes after her father and finds the castle

5. Belle makes a deal with the Beast promising to remain in the castle forever

6. Maurice is sent away

I have always thought that Ben would have turned when he was very young. However, Bloodline undertones he was around 23 years like Anakin when this happened. We learned in ROTS that Anakin turned to save Padme. What if Ben had made some deal with Snoke to save someone, Luke or someone else he cared about very much? It would make sense if it was Luke, providing that he would be our Space Maurice,  because:
- Luke had been traveling around the galaxy
=> what were the goals of these journeys? What did he want to acquire? Was he already after the First Jedi Temple?
- Snoke had been watching Ben from the cradle so he knew what were his raw nerves
==> what if Snoke had set a trap in which Luke or Ben fell so that there was no other choice than making a deal?
- I already pointed out in a previous post that TFA not only parallel BATB but also the Hunchback of Notre-Dame, both Disney being actually connected because:
1. Belle appears in the Hunchback of Notre-Dame:
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2. Both storie are about outcasts:
- BATB: Maurice, Belle and Beast are all outcasts
- HOND:Quasimodo, Esmeralda and the Gipsies are all outcasts (Song: God help the Outcasts)
==> In TFA: Luke, Ben & Rey are sort of outcasts. Kylo's name in Chinese means "outcast"
3. Both stories have the following thread: who is the man? who is the monster?
- BATB: Beast may look like a monster but is a man. Gaston may looks like a man but is a monster ==>He's no monster Gaston! You are!
- HOND: Quasimodo may looks monstruous but is  a good man deep inside him. Frollo may looks as a standard man but is a monster deep inside him ==> Frollo about Quasimodo: "Even this fool creature may yet prove one day to be of use to me!" vs. Han about Snoke: "Snoke is using you for your powers!"
==> In TFA: It is clear that Kylo doesn't fit the image of the typical villain although he murders his father. The film clearly shows this duality between a "false" villain and a real one, Hux being our Space Gaston and Snoke our Space Maestro Forte:
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Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpj88ZXM3jA
4. Both stories are about the hero/heroin being kept prisoner in a tower:
- Belle is being kept prisoner in the castle ==> We have already pointed out in previous posts that Kylo and Rey are both Yin and Yang, Anakin & Padme, Beauty & the Beast so it would make sense if Kylo would parallel Belle as Snoke's prisoner
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- Quasimodo is sort of kept prisoner by Frollo in the bell tower of Notre-Dame ==> I guess that Kylo is also our Space Quasimodo because:
a. Frollo has chosen Quasimodo's name, a name that means "unformed" ==> Snoke has chosen Kylo's name, a name that means outcast in Chinese
b. In the song "Bells of Notre-Dame", Clopin talks about a creature living in the dark bell tower of Notre-Dame ==> This applies very well to Kylo himself:
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c. There is a clear callback to the bells of Notre-Dame in the TFA's bridge scene:
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The most interesting thing about is is that Clopin asks exactly the questions that we all ask ourselves about Ben/Kylo:
1. Who is this creature? ==> Who?
2. What is he? ==> What?
3. How did he come to be there? ==> How?

It is obvious that Ben/Kylo isn't confortable at all with his situation,  and if I had to demonstrate it I would chose the following scene:

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In this deleted scene, Snape is clearly strugling with the consequences of the act he must commit and he knows that he has no other choice than doing it. If Ben/Kylo isn't our Space Snape, I would be really surprised! I don't buy the theory that he would be actually a double agent but still he may be a sort of young Severus Snape, anyway not confortable with making evil around him.

One thing is clear to me: I believe Kylo to be the kind of person who could have sacrificed himself and even his soul for saving someone he beloves so it's not impossible that he made some deal either to save Luke himself or someone else or turned for any necessary reason. Let's keep in mind that deals, and especially deals with villains, are often part of the plot in Disney movies.

Sorry! Again a long post Wink
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Post by MoonlitMoss on Mon 5 Dec - 9:35

@Darth_Awakened wrote:Far from being a Luke obsessed fan - I really doubt he went completely dark-side crazy over the ages, that Rey needs a protection in regard to him.

He is definitely not an idealistic young man from OT, and probably very disappointed in himself, which  led to hermit-state of isolation without hope. I think it's more of depression than pure craziness in his case.
@Darth_Awakened

I agree with you, @Darth_Awakened. I have a really hard time seeing Luke going dark enough that someone, especially Rey, would have to be protected from him. I could see him momentarily channeling someone or accessing something that caused him to go delirious or something like that, but I have a hard time seeing him attacking and going down the path to the Dark Side.

Luke looked tortured and angry when he saw Rey handing the lightsaber off to him. I’ll never understand how people came away with thinking that ending was Luke looking lovingly at his long lost daughter. His look then seems to soften a bit and he just looks like someone who has been through hell.

I think we’ll get a conflicted Luke, for sure. I don’t see Dark!Luke.

It would undo his entire character arc in the OT.

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Post by Guest on Mon 5 Dec - 10:37

Maybe it goes back to that old rumor about Luke being tormented by evil spirits. Could be that he tried to access a temple containing something related to the Sith, perhaps to search for lore or an artifact a la Raiders of the Lost Ark, and ended up getting cursed or haunted by whatever's guarding it. This, combined with the destruction of the new order of Jedi he'd tried to build, may have led to a Luke who is not dark but just not the same person as he used to be.

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Post by ZioRen on Mon 5 Dec - 11:14

WhatGirl wrote:Maybe it goes back to that old rumor about Luke being tormented by evil spirits. Could be that he tried to access a temple containing something related to the Sith, perhaps to search for lore or an artifact a la Raiders of the Lost Ark, and ended up getting cursed or haunted by whatever's guarding it. This, combined with the destruction of the new order of Jedi he'd tried to build, may have led to a Luke who is not dark but just not the same person as he used to be.
@WhatGirl

This is kind of like my theory if there's a "dark Luke". I think that he hasn't been in "exile" just because he's ashamed; he might be protecting something important. Something that Kylo wants too, and that's why he's after that map (Ahch-To seems to be important, after all). That something may be some Sith artifact that's been steadily eating at his mind over the years. From what I've heard, there's been a bunch of focus in recent novels on the mind-warping effects of Sith artifacts. I wouldn't be surprised if it played a role in the Sequel Trilogy. It's a good way to make Luke significantly darker without completely ruining his character and angering fans.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 5 Dec - 12:18

@Jakku wrote:If Leia and Han felt unable to help Ben with his Force-related issues, and then Luke turned out to be a bit crazy and obsessed - who was left for Ben? He was a child being raised by air, much as Pablo said Rey was raised by sand.

I've often wondered if the 'you need a teacher' plea was intended to give her the tools to protect her against Luke.
@Jakku

I've sometimes wondered if "you need a teacher" came about because Kylo legitimately knew that he'd be a more viable teacher for Rey than Luke would be.
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Post by Rimfaxe96 on Mon 5 Dec - 12:33

I know Lucas isn't involved in this trilogy's production anymore, but this interview really makes me believe the rumor of Luke guarding something on Ahch-To, or at least still having the upper hand about his own situation rather then being in need of help:

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IMO it just wouldn't make sense to have a weak Luke. Troubled, yes; Leia was too in TFA, but still not weak. Luke is the galaxy's only hope at that point; Rey can't master the force on her own despite her natural affinity.


...oh, and here some oblivious-to-his-own-talent-AD:

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 5 Dec - 12:42

@ZioRen wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:Maybe it goes back to that old rumor about Luke being tormented by evil spirits. Could be that he tried to access a temple containing something related to the Sith, perhaps to search for lore or an artifact a la Raiders of the Lost Ark, and ended up getting cursed or haunted by whatever's guarding it. This, combined with the destruction of the new order of Jedi he'd tried to build, may have led to a Luke who is not dark but just not the same person as he used to be.
@WhatGirl

This is kind of like my theory if there's a "dark Luke". I think that he hasn't been in "exile" just because he's ashamed; he might be protecting something important. Something that Kylo wants too, and that's why he's after that map (Ahch-To seems to be important, after all). That something may be some Sith artifact that's been steadily eating at his mind over the years. From what I've heard, there's been a bunch of focus in recent novels on the mind-warping effects of Sith artifacts. I wouldn't be surprised if it played a role in the Sequel Trilogy. It's a good way to make Luke significantly darker without completely ruining his character and angering fans.
@ZioRen

That's kind of my theory, too. It would fit with the rumblings we've heard and some of what's been introduced in the new canon books.

When I talked about Kylo protecting Rey from Luke, I wasn't necessarily thinking of a Dark! Luke scenario--I was thinking more of of an Unstable! Luke scenario...not necessarily that Luke is crazy, but that he's a bit "off" in some way, and if rumors are true, sometimes has trouble controlling his Force powers.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 5 Dec - 12:47

@reylo1992 wrote:

*snip*

In this deleted scene, Snape is clearly strugling with the consequences of the act he must commit and he knows that he has no other choice than doing it. If Ben/Kylo isn't our Space Snape, I would be really surprised! I don't buy the theory that he would be actually a double agent but still he may be a sort of young Severus Snape, anyway not confortable with making evil around him.

One thing is clear to me: I believe Kylo to be the kind of person who could have sacrificed himself and even his soul for saving someone he beloves so it's not impossible that he made some deal either to save Luke himself or someone else or turned for any necessary reason. Let's keep in mind that deals, and especially deals with villains, are often part of the plot in Disney movies.

Sorry! Again a long post Wink
@reylo1992

Great post! I "snipped" a bunch for the sake of readability/scrolling.

As far as Ben having perhaps turned to save/protect someone... If we're seeing a reverse Anakin, I kind of wonder if, after the Vader reveal, if Ben was offered some sort of deal to protect Leia.

Anakin turned to save the object of his romantic love after he couldn't save his mother. If Kylo's romantic love is ultimately going to help him be redeemed, perhaps he fell because he was trying to protect his mother?
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Post by snufkin on Mon 5 Dec - 12:51

I don't think that they'll throw Luke under the bus to generate an excuse to get Rey on Ben's side. But given what Mark Hamill has said about wishing for a Dark Luke scenario and how Han and Leia were depicted in the ST to ruin the childhoods of true fans be more true to what the actors who played those characters (one of whom is a highly respected writer/script doctor), it makes sense we'll see that for him too. At the very least, he screwed up with Ben and feels responsible. And as with the other OT characters, it will be playing out his entire arc. So it won't violate who he is at heart, but he'll have his struggles too.
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Post by ZioRen on Mon 5 Dec - 12:52

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:Maybe it goes back to that old rumor about Luke being tormented by evil spirits. Could be that he tried to access a temple containing something related to the Sith, perhaps to search for lore or an artifact a la Raiders of the Lost Ark, and ended up getting cursed or haunted by whatever's guarding it. This, combined with the destruction of the new order of Jedi he'd tried to build, may have led to a Luke who is not dark but just not the same person as he used to be.
@WhatGirl

This is kind of like my theory if there's a "dark Luke". I think that he hasn't been in "exile" just because he's ashamed; he might be protecting something important. Something that Kylo wants too, and that's why he's after that map (Ahch-To seems to be important, after all). That something may be some Sith artifact that's been steadily eating at his mind over the years. From what I've heard, there's been a bunch of focus in recent novels on the mind-warping effects of Sith artifacts. I wouldn't be surprised if it played a role in the Sequel Trilogy. It's a good way to make Luke significantly darker without completely ruining his character and angering fans.
@ZioRen

That's kind of my theory, too. It would fit with the rumblings we've heard and some of what's been introduced in the new canon books.

When I talked about Kylo protecting Rey from Luke, I wasn't necessarily thinking of a Dark! Luke scenario--I was thinking more of of an Unstable! Luke scenario...not necessarily that Luke is crazy, but that he's a bit "off" in some way, and if rumors are true, sometimes has trouble controlling his Force powers.
@ISeeAnIsland

Now I'm imagining a scenario where Luke has actually been hunting down dangerous Sith artifacts for a long time, and a young Ben Solo got involved too while under Luke's tutelage. Bloodline seems to strongly suggest that Luke was being very secretive about what he was doing, since Han and Leia have no clue what Ben and Luke have been up to.

It could end up being a situation where Luke has been getting steadily more unstable for a while now in the process of trying to protect the galaxy. Which could be yet another reason Ben, perhaps with Snoke's influence, believed he was doing the "right thing" by leaving and destroying what Luke built (of course it still wouldn't be justified and I don't imagine Luke ever being super dark, so Kylo will still be firmly in the wrong).

It would also give Kylo something to reveal about Luke to Rey to throw more doubt into the situation. Plus a pre-ST Luke and Ben hunting down Sith artifacts would make a pretty sweet comic series!
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Post by Irina de France on Mon 5 Dec - 12:59

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:Maybe it goes back to that old rumor about Luke being tormented by evil spirits. Could be that he tried to access a temple containing something related to the Sith, perhaps to search for lore or an artifact a la Raiders of the Lost Ark, and ended up getting cursed or haunted by whatever's guarding it. This, combined with the destruction of the new order of Jedi he'd tried to build, may have led to a Luke who is not dark but just not the same person as he used to be.
@WhatGirl

This is kind of like my theory if there's a "dark Luke". I think that he hasn't been in "exile" just because he's ashamed; he might be protecting something important. Something that Kylo wants too, and that's why he's after that map (Ahch-To seems to be important, after all). That something may be some Sith artifact that's been steadily eating at his mind over the years. From what I've heard, there's been a bunch of focus in recent novels on the mind-warping effects of Sith artifacts. I wouldn't be surprised if it played a role in the Sequel Trilogy. It's a good way to make Luke significantly darker without completely ruining his character and angering fans.
@ZioRen

That's kind of my theory, too. It would fit with the rumblings we've heard and some of what's been introduced in the new canon books.

When I talked about Kylo protecting Rey from Luke, I wasn't necessarily thinking of a Dark! Luke scenario--I was thinking more of of an Unstable! Luke scenario...not necessarily that Luke is crazy, but that he's a bit "off" in some way, and if rumors are true, sometimes has trouble controlling his Force powers.
@ISeeAnIsland

I don't believe in a Dark!Luke scenario either - it'd be a bit hard after his character journey in the OT. Troubled!Luke? Definitely, especially if my theory about Ahch-To possessing Dark Side/Sith holocrons is true and Luke is unwillingly influenced by them.

Plus, it'd give another reason for Rey to trust Kylo and give credibility to the rumors we've been hearing.
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Post by LondonGal555 on Mon 5 Dec - 13:04

Unkar Plutt followed Rey to Maz's castle (in the book there is a imperial tracking device on the falcon) Unkar told Rey she was going to pay for what she did and than Chewie ripped off Unkars arm. So to me, Unkar is even more angry so I think he will track Rey to the island. Maybe Kylo will protect Rey from Unkar. Remember he saves her in a vision so that means something to me because why else show Kylo saving Rey? so ether he saves her from one of Unkars thugs or from the Jakku constable Zuvio who followed her.
Kylo reads minds so he would read Unkars thoughts and be angry with how he treated Rey. Remember our dear Kylo has compassion for Rey

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 5 Dec - 13:58

@Rimfaxe96 wrote:I know Lucas isn't involved in this trilogy's production anymore, but this interview really makes me believe the rumor of Luke guarding something on Ahch-To, or at least still having the upper hand about his own situation rather then being in need of help:

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IMO it just wouldn't make sense to have a weak Luke. Troubled, yes; Leia was too in TFA, but still not weak. Luke is the galaxy's only hope at that point; Rey can't master the force on her own despite her natural affinity.


...oh, and here some oblivious-to-his-own-talent-AD:

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@Rimfaxe96

What interview is that AD clip from? That looks recent ... and yeah, he totally doesn't see how good he is. Very Happy
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Post by panki on Mon 5 Dec - 14:37

@Darth Dingbat

- WW 2 movies inspired? (12 o'clock High, Sahara)

- lightsaber fight moves involving spinning around?

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Interesting.... Confus

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Post by Rimfaxe96 on Mon 5 Dec - 14:49

@SoloSideCousin wrote:What interview is that AD clip from? That looks recent ... and yeah, he totally doesn't see how good he is. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

Dunno; stole them from a tumblr post. Embarassed
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 5 Dec - 15:11

@LondonGal555 wrote:Unkar Plutt followed Rey to Maz's castle (in the book there is a imperial tracking device on the falcon) Unkar told Rey she was going to pay for what she did and than Chewie ripped off Unkars arm.  So to me, Unkar is even more angry so I think he will track Rey to the island.   Maybe Kylo will protect Rey from Unkar.   Remember he saves her in a vision so that means something to me because why else show Kylo saving Rey?  so ether he saves her from one of Unkars thugs or from the Jakku constable Zuvio who followed her.  
Kylo reads minds so he would read Unkars thoughts and be angry with how he treated Rey.  Remember our dear Kylo has compassion for Rey
@LondonGal555

I agree with this idea that Unkar Plutt isn't done with Rey yet and will try to make her pay for what she did. No coincidence that they finally inserted this deleted scene with him in the Bluray.

I just hope, like I already wrote in a previous post, that we're not going to have a similar sequence to Han Solo's rescue with Rey trapped on Jakku by Plutt the same Han was on Tatoooine by Jabba the Hutt because this is the most boring sequence of the whole franchise to me.

Why not having Plutt behind an assassination attempt on Rey the same way Dooku was behind an assassination attempt on Padme with Kylo being her bodyguard like granddaddy was for Padme? This could be indeed a callback to Rey's vision because I don't think it makes sense that Kylo would protect Rey fron his own men. He is after all the master of the Knights of Ren so he is supposed to give the orders and be respected when he gives one.

Like you, I rather imagine some vicious attack with a lot of people trying to kill one single person, which would be a callback to the wolves scene and the "Kill the Beast" scene of BABT. We already saw how Plutt sent two men to steal BB-8 to Rey and they attacked her viciously. Plutt reminds me a little to Thénardier in Les Miserables, which means that it's possible that he wanted to get the droid to give it to the FO and get money for his cooperation.  

Let's keep in mind that Finn wanted to intervene but didn't need to do it since Rey could defend herself very well. However, she didn't fight against a whole pack but against two men only. I get the sense that Kylo & Rey's scenes will include some callbacks to Finn & Rey's scenes but that they will go differently with Rey reacting differently to Kylo's actions. I really wouls like to have Kylo escape with the MF and fix things inside the same way Rey did in TFA just to see Rey's reactions when she realizes they have so much in common.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 5 Dec - 15:22

@reylo1992 wrote:
@LondonGal555 wrote:Unkar Plutt followed Rey to Maz's castle (in the book there is a imperial tracking device on the falcon) Unkar told Rey she was going to pay for what she did and than Chewie ripped off Unkars arm.  So to me, Unkar is even more angry so I think he will track Rey to the island.   Maybe Kylo will protect Rey from Unkar.   Remember he saves her in a vision so that means something to me because why else show Kylo saving Rey?  so ether he saves her from one of Unkars thugs or from the Jakku constable Zuvio who followed her.  
Kylo reads minds so he would read Unkars thoughts and be angry with how he treated Rey.  Remember our dear Kylo has compassion for Rey
@LondonGal555

I agree with this idea that Unkar Plutt isn't done with Rey yet and will try to make her pay for what she did. No coincidence that they finally inserted this deleted scene with him in the Bluray.

I just hope, like I already wrote in a previous post, that we're not going to have a similar sequence to Han Solo's rescue with Rey trapped on Jakku by Plutt the same Han was on Tatoooine by Jabba the Hutt because this is the most boring sequence of the whole franchise to me.

Why not having Plutt behind an assassination attempt on Rey the same way Dooku was behind an assassination attempt on Padme with Kylo being her bodyguard like granddaddy was for Padme? This could be indeed a callback to Rey's vision because I don't think it makes sense that Kylo would protect Rey fron his own men. He is after all the master of the Knights of Ren so he is supposed to give the orders and be respected when he gives one.

Like you, I rather imagine some vicious attack with a lot of people trying to kill one single person, which would be a callback to the wolves scene and the "Kill the Beast" scene of BABT. We already saw how Plutt sent two men to steal BB-8 to Rey and they attacked her viciously. Plutt reminds me a little to Thénardier in Les Miserables, which means that it's possible that he wanted to get the droid to give it to the FO and get money for his cooperation.  

Let's keep in mind that Finn wanted to intervene but didn't need to do it since Rey could defend herself very well. However, she didn't fight against a whole pack but against two men only. I get the sense that Kylo & Rey's scenes will include some callbacks to Finn & Rey's scenes but that they will go differently with Rey reacting differently to Kylo's actions. I really wouls like to have Kylo escape with the MF and fix things inside the same way Rey did in TFA just to see Rey's reactions when she realizes they have so much in common.
@reylo1992

I think that the bolded will be the case, too. Why else keep in the "Do you have a cute boyfriend" and the hand-holding stuff, when Rey and Finn were always meant to be platonic, unless to set up a contrast with someone else later on?

Kylo and Rey in the Falcon together is the #1 scene/scenario on my Reylo wishlist. I rank it even above seeing a kiss.
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 5 Dec - 15:41

Wow! I just read again the excerpt of the novelizstion corresponding to the deleted scene. Plutt sounds really creepy there, especially when he tells her that he intends to make her "provide some entertainment for the galactic rubbish" Shocked There I realize even more how much Kylo invading her space has nothing to do with abuse.

He smiled. It did not improve his appearance. “The ship you stole. The Millennium Falcon. You can’t really track a ship while it’s in hyperspace — but when it emerges, and particularly after it sets down somewhere, there are ways. Expensive, but in the case of valuable property, often worth it. Definitely worth it in the case of the Falcon. It happens to be fitted with a covert Imperial homing device. Old technology, but still quite functional. To which my presence here can attest. “Didn’t take much to get the necessary relays working.” No one in the hall was paying them the least attention, she noticed worriedly. In a place where everyone minded their own business, she found herself wishing fervently for someone to butt in. She twisted defiantly in Plutt’s grasp. “I suggest. Kindly. That you let go of me. Now.” Despite her attempts to pull away, he drew her steadily closer. She could not avoid the fact that his breath was a suitably aromatic match for his visage. “I suggest, less kindly, that you come quietly with me. Otherwise we’ll begin right here, where you can provide some entertainment for this galactic rubbish.” Putting his face so close to hers that they were almost touching, he lowered his voice. “I’m gonna make you and that wearisome droid pay for what you’ve done.”

Seriously the more I gather such elements, the more I become persuaded that no parents would have let their five years old girl under the protection of that guy. It looks like Plutt is meant to parallel Snoke üroviding that Snoke is supposed to embody the figure of a chid abuser.
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Post by LondonGal555 on Mon 5 Dec - 15:50


I agree with you all.

This is from the adult novelization.....

" Thats my girl," plutt commended her.
Not replying, she turned and left, moving as quickly as she could without alerting him to the fact that his presence disgusted her. She could feel his eyes ALL over her until she exited the big tent.

Kylo can read minds so I wonder how Mr. compassion for Rey will respond to Unkars creepy thoughts.

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Post by Magnolia_3.0 on Mon 5 Dec - 16:04

I just can not believe that even with Plutt using a locator on the ship, Rey and the entire Resistance, they will not check and remove any tracker from the ship before sending her to meet Luke ... it would be very ingenuous.
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Post by LondonGal555 on Mon 5 Dec - 16:23

This to me foreshadows Reylo.

Rey talking to bb8

"Don't give up. He still might show up. Whoever it is. Classified. Believe me, I know all about waiting."
"For my family. They'll be back. One day."

"Whomever you are waiting for on Jakku are never coming back. But there's someone who still could with your help." Maz to Rey

Rey also has dreams of a voice. A day dream. A nightmare at this point in her life she couldn't tell which.

A stunned Rey could only track kylo ren with her eyes. She has seen this man before in a daydream(ben solo)In a nightmare.(kylo ren)

A figure stepped out from behind a tree. It was the nightmare(kylo) and he was wielding a lightsaber unlike any she has ever seen in the stories she has read.

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Post by DarthRen on Mon 5 Dec - 17:02

@LondonGal555 wrote:I truly believe reylo is end game and here are just a FEW reasons why.

Jj Abrams said while writing the force awakens that there was a central romance.
On the Ellen show the night before the force awakens came out Oscar Issac said there is a very subtle romance that is happening.
John said in that interview Finn is just a storm trooper and didn't know what was going on and Daisy said we shall see for romance with her character.

The proof it's bens lightsaber is the deleted scene of maz stealing it from Kylo at a camp fire

@LondonGal555

First time poster, so hello everybody.

Couple of questions. JJ said it while, could it mean like he dropped or simply he had it in mind and kept it?

I thought Oscar was joking about Finn and Poe romance but maybe he talked about Reylo.

That deleted scene can be found somewhere becasue i search it and didn't found any. But it makes sense as Kylo said it belongs to him in his mind.
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Post by snufkin on Mon 5 Dec - 17:12

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:Far from being a Luke obsessed fan - I really doubt he went completely dark-side crazy over the ages, that Rey needs a protection in regard to him.

He is definitely not an idealistic young man from OT, and probably very disappointed in himself, which  led to hermit-state of isolation without hope. I think it's more of depression than pure craziness in his case.


@Darth_Awakened

As a life-long Luke fan, I admit I'd be quite disturbed if Luke has gone dark. Just like I'd be disturbed if he now wants his nephew dead after he stood for the complete opposite of that in the OT. I wouldn't want all of the OT to be pretty much erased in this new trilogy.

But then I remember this video, where Mark was saying how much he would have liked to play Luke going dark, about to kill Han or Leia or "someone else we care about", and then come back... and JJ was sitting there, opposite him, looking very interested. :lol: I can't help but wonder if he had that conversation in mind when he started planning the new trilogy. (it's around 11:50)

@Darth Dingbat

Yeah and wasn't there a story about how in an early draft, Luke would've been part of the bridge scene and accidentally killed Han. Who intervenes when Luke goes after his son? And there's the 2010 interview with Gary Kurtz where he talked about the original idea Kasdan had for how the 3 OT characters would end up:

“We had an outline and George changed everything in it,” Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.
Crystal

Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.

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Post by LondonGal555 on Mon 5 Dec - 17:20

Every Star Wars movie has a central romance. Padame and anakin skywalker. Han Solo and Leia. JJ said in a interview that he was definitely going to do a central romance In the trilogy starting with the force awakens.

I could be wrong but I believe the Finn Poe romance was only talked about only after the audience saw the movie?!?! Oscar talked on the Ellen show the day before the force awakens came out. He talked about a subtle romance Happening. That you have to look at all these little hint.s. He couldn't say with which character of course but Finn and kellie are filming a lot in episode 8 so I think they will become a thing.

I know they filmed that scene but it hasn't come out yet. They filmed a scene where snoke says you have compassion for her (Rey). But it's in a script or something where maz Kanata steal the lightsaber from kylo Ren at a campfire and I think he is with the Knights of ren.

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Post by snufkin on Mon 5 Dec - 17:46

Some have speculated on here that part of both shaking things up and also paying homage will be two romances. Finn will get the OT Han and Leia, screwball comedy style romance whereas our favorite two nerds will make things right and do the PT style star crossed romance the way it should've been. Except maybe without the poorly thought out reasons for getting married when you should've just hooked up on the D/L and no tragic death at the end.

1. Sort of related, but more Miyazaki screenings here in the U.S., this time it's Princess Mononoke, which has some elements of these two characters

studio ghibli's ‘princess mononoke’ is returning to theaters on hayao miyazaki’s birthday

Similarly to Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke's return is a two-day event. The first screening, on January 5, presents an English language dubbed version of the film, featuring an A-list roster of voice actors: Gillian Anderson, Claire Danes, Minnie Driver, Jada Pinkett-Smith, and Billy Bob Thornton (seriously). On January 9, it will be shown in the original Japanese with English subtitles. Though the film was not released in the United States until 1999, it debuted to critical and commercial acclaim in its native Japan in the summer of 1997. So next month's screenings don't perfectly coincide with its 20th anniversary — July 12, 1997 — but do align with Miyazaki's 76th birthday, on January 5.

2. The Hero’s Journeys in Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Great analysis of the main 3 (no, not Poe who gets mis ID's here as Dameron Poe) and their progression through the Hero's Journey in TFA.

I think that the characters are the best part of the story. The ones from the Classic Trilogy open the ground to a host of new heroes and villains. And these are, in my opinion, the most interesting feature of the latest Star Wars movie.


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