ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 13

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Post by snufkin on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 9:36 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@snufkin

I absolutely agree with you @snufkin, and @Darth Dementor and @Irina de France here.  IMO, there is sexual subtext in TFA just like you would see in an old "Hayes Code" era movie.

And speaking of such movies, I watched Spellbound last night ... and holy sith, if Ava DuVernay wasn't influenced, even subconsciously, by *that scene* in Spellbound, then she was influenced by someone else who was influenced by Hitchcock.  OMG, the moment there and that between Rey and Kylo on the cliffside is sooooo similar.  The quick back and forth close-ups on their eyes, the eyes telling every emotion.  I swear it seemed so similar that Gregory Peck actually reminded me of Adam Driver for the rest of the movie! (And another thing, I never knew Gregory Peck was ever so hot.  I guess I only know him from his Atticus Finch and The Omen days and The Boys from Brazil (where he plays Mengele, hence he's repulsive there), so for me he's either an earnest Dad type or the worst of the worst.  I may have to look for more Gregory Peck movies).

In fact, I think JJ literally took it farther down the road than Hitchcock did because the sequence was longer, had facial expressions that could be interpreted a variety of ways (including sexualized interpretations), had motion in the camera work, *and* the bleeding of the red and blue into the new "magenta" between them ... like their energies (psyches) were being melded together, temporarily making them into one union.  I would not be a bit surprised if JJ absolutely wanted to show this melding of energies/essences/psyches between them because that's where the story is going, but initially struggled with how to show it, and Ava DuVernay gave him this Spellboundesque idea.  Thank you so much Ava! :D

@SoloSideCousin

Young Peck = Hot Stuff. Ever see Roman Holiday or The Yearling? Actually one of the influences for VIII is one from that era of his career, Twelve O'Clock High, maybe some of his character will be an influence for Poe?  Peck's well loved in Northern California thanks to being a UC Berkeley alumni and lifelong booster for the school.  

@reylo1992 - I found the original post with the color sequencing, credit goes to @Xylo Ren Again, tell me that this wasn't deliberate and not meant to represent the flow of the Force, emotions, and attraction going back and forth between the two of them. Pretty inspired lighting and cinematography, absolutely beautiful. But sure, R1 is the superior Star Wars movie because it's gritty and TFA sucks because the opening crawl has the wrong font and last minute text changes.

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 13 - Page 22 Tumblr_obf3k4RP0M1v8giiro1_500

@Xylo Ren wrote:
Red-Red

Blue-Blue
Red-Blue
Blue-Red

= the transfer
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Post by Sylvia Snow on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 10:34 pm

Let not forget about this transition that happened in their Snow Fight, that was pointed out by someone in this forum a while back

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 13 - Page 22 Tumblr_ojp52agh6I1vjpvelo1_540

There's no doubt that Kylo and Rey are connected with each other
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 10:58 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@snufkin

I absolutely agree with you @snufkin, and @Darth Dementor and @Irina de France here.  IMO, there is sexual subtext in TFA just like you would see in an old "Hayes Code" era movie.

And speaking of such movies, I watched Spellbound last night ... and holy sith, if Ava DuVernay wasn't influenced, even subconsciously, by *that scene* in Spellbound, then she was influenced by someone else who was influenced by Hitchcock.  OMG, the moment there and that between Rey and Kylo on the cliffside is sooooo similar.  The quick back and forth close-ups on their eyes, the eyes telling every emotion.  I swear it seemed so similar that Gregory Peck actually reminded me of Adam Driver for the rest of the movie! (And another thing, I never knew Gregory Peck was ever so hot.  I guess I only know him from his Atticus Finch and The Omen days and The Boys from Brazil (where he plays Mengele, hence he's repulsive there), so for me he's either an earnest Dad type or the worst of the worst.  I may have to look for more Gregory Peck movies).

In fact, I think JJ literally took it farther down the road than Hitchcock did because the sequence was longer, had facial expressions that could be interpreted a variety of ways (including sexualized interpretations), had motion in the camera work, *and* the bleeding of the red and blue into the new "magenta" between them ... like their energies (psyches) were being melded together, temporarily making them into one union.  I would not be a bit surprised if JJ absolutely wanted to show this melding of energies/essences/psyches between them because that's where the story is going, but initially struggled with how to show it, and Ava DuVernay gave him this Spellboundesque idea.  Thank you so much Ava! Very Happy

@SoloSideCousin

Young Peck = Hot Stuff. Ever see Roman Holiday or The Yearling? Actually one of the influences for VIII is one from that era of his career, Twelve O'Clock High, maybe some of his character will be an influence for Poe?  Peck's well loved in Northern California thanks to being a UC Berkeley alumni and lifelong booster for the school.  

@reylo1992 - I found the original post with the color sequencing, credit goes to @Xylo Ren Again, tell me that this wasn't deliberate and not meant to represent the flow of the Force, emotions, and attraction going back and forth between the two of them. Pretty inspired lighting and cinematography, absolutely beautiful. But sure, R1 is the superior Star Wars movie because it's gritty and TFA sucks because the opening crawl has the wrong font and last minute text changes.

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 13 - Page 22 Tumblr_obf3k4RP0M1v8giiro1_500

@Xylo Ren wrote:
Red-Red

Blue-Blue
Red-Blue
Blue-Red

= the transfer
@snufkin

I have not seen anywhere near enough hot Gregory Peck! Laughing I actually saw him in person once giving a talk about his life.  He was well into his 80s and still sharp as a tack with that great voice.   He was like the perfect distinguished gentleman ... so to suddenly think, "Wow, he was really hot" was a surprise.  Laughing Gregory Peck is also very well-regarded in the Irish-Catholic community.  I think he probably made friends everywhere he went.

Also, thank you so much for finding this @Xylo Ren post!!!! One of the best picture sequence posts ever!!! OMG! It's all right there in those pictures, the union and melding of energies/psyches (souls? if you want to take it a little farther).

I actually really loved Rogue One.  I thought it was tighter, better paced and overall more even in quality throughout than TFA, and the action sequences were head and shoulders above TFA IMO.  I am also admittedly a big fan of grit and realism in movies, and like an ingenious action sequence from time to time, and RO with its different style and moral greyness made me very excited as to how it showed that LF is throwing the creative doors open. 

But that being said, there is *nothing* in RO that matches this sequence, or frankly any of the Kylo parts or some of the early 'discover Rey' parts.  Like @Saracene was saying above, those parts go to a very high level, a truly inspired filmmaking level ... a level that is in a completely different ballpark than anything seen in RO.  Had the whole film been on that level, ESB might not be everyone's favorite anymore.  I think that parts of TFA suffered because of the rushing that was imposed on JJ and LK having to pull that thing together in 2 months and Disney not giving JJ the extra 6 months he asked for.  That's what makes me *so excited* about Episode VIII, because if the new team could pull off such brilliant sequences under such less than ideal circumstances, how good is Episode VIII going to be when the team really has the time and their footing?

I actually don't really like to compare RO and TFA too closely because they feel like apples and oranges to me in some ways.  My father was a big influence on me for movies and he took me to everything from esoteric arthouse films to Stallone movies, so I learned to love all kinds of films.  So to me RO does what it does, and TFA does what it does.  I mean I love that goofball movie Overboard and Woody Allen's Bullets over Broadway.  They're both comedies, but are not really comparable after that.  Overboard sets certain goals for itself and accomplishes them well.  Bullets over Broadway does the same.  But the goals and limitations for each film are very different.  I think RO had goals of bringing war-film styling and moral ambiguity and some black comedy into the SW universe.  I also think it had the commercial goal of throwing a bone to "fanboys" with tight, dramatic action. 

TFA had a whole different set of goals.  IMO it was set to start the universe anew, bring the saga to a more adult level after the prequels and ROTJ, to start to challenge the b&W thinking of the older movies, start to define the force in a different way and to create real, flesh and blood characters over archetypes.  With the Kylo stuff and some of the Rey stuff and the "OT 3 are not perfect" stuff they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.  But because of commercial pressures and a need to regain the trust of the people burned by the prequels, some of this new complexity did not extend to Finn, Poe, the Resistance and the politics because they wanted to "ease people into the changes" .... which IMO was a smart business move IMO considering some of the lack of understanding seen in certain fan segments.  I think in Episode VIII  every segment of the new saga will be in the new groove.


As for the fanboys, for all their love of the bada**ery of RO ... they seem to be clueless to the fact that a having "a guy who shoots the informant become a hero" changes the whole paradigm to such an extent that that it paves the way for that "Evil Emo Kylo Ren" to not turn eviler ... but into an anti-hero and one of the most crucial characters of the whole saga.  Very Happy
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Post by snufkin on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 11:40 pm

@SoloSideCousin - Peck was an activist his whole life, including speaking out against the HUAC, Vietnam War, and Nuclear Arms race. Come to think of it, A Duel in the Son, has him in a passionate and combative battle of wills with a cousin (*cough*) where the finale is a sexually charged duel between the two of them

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 13 - Page 22 600full-duel-in-the-sun-screenshot

Everybody thinks of him as Atticus Finch, so his earlier movies don't get nearly as much attention the further out we go from that era in film. He's also quite foxy in The Snows of Kilamanjaro and Designing Women (On the Beach is also excellent, but maybe a little too timely and scary given current real world situations).

Oh you know I'm being sarcastic about how according to more orthodox voices, R1 is the "superior" Star Wars movie. It is amazing how there are obviously these sequences between specific characters which clearly elevate TFA into a film worth picking apart and obsessing over, regardless of JJ's Mystery Box proclivities. But it's like the PT, "true" fans love to hate on it (honestly if it weren't for this place, I'd avoid fans because most of them come across as equal parts pedantic and joyless). There are details in R1 which you'd never expect in a block buster movie, like styling Forest Whittaker's character to look like Dr. Cornel West or lifting the street battle scene from the Battle of Algiers (though Children of Men did it better). But the last battle sequence was when I started checking my watch out of boredom because it was so unsurprising as the most SW-esque style space battle. Meanwhile look at how much you can pick apart the Snow Fight and that one brief sequence with its editing and lighting to pick up on one of the central themes of the ST.
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Post by Lily Snape on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 12:55 am

@panki wrote:
@Lily Snape wrote:
I still want to know whether poor old Mitaka was Force-choked a la Vader, or whether Kylo just drags underlings across the room but then lets them live. He was, after all, asking Mitaka a question, so killing him instead of letting him answer would be fairly stupid. He was actually pretty compassionate (in the novel) about the unfortunate Daniel Craig Stormtrooper whom he left to guard Rey. Then again, he's a man of many moods.
@Lily Snape

Mitaka survived his interaction with Kylo and you can see him briefly.... he is standing near Kylo later in the movie when Han and Finn arrive on SKB (not looking scared of him so obviously no harm was done or Kylo's outburst are a regular occurrence).

@panki

Thanks! I'd rather that he take things out on computer consoles than on human beings (or other creatures) like his grandfather. Good to hear! Smile
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 1:13 am

@Lily Snape wrote:
@panki wrote:
@Lily Snape wrote:
I still want to know whether poor old Mitaka was Force-choked a la Vader, or whether Kylo just drags underlings across the room but then lets them live. He was, after all, asking Mitaka a question, so killing him instead of letting him answer would be fairly stupid. He was actually pretty compassionate (in the novel) about the unfortunate Daniel Craig Stormtrooper whom he left to guard Rey. Then again, he's a man of many moods.
@Lily Snape

Mitaka survived his interaction with Kylo and you can see him briefly.... he is standing near Kylo later in the movie when Han and Finn arrive on SKB (not looking scared of him so obviously no harm was done or Kylo's outburst are a regular occurrence).

@panki

Thanks! I'd rather that he take things out on computer consoles than on human beings (or other creatures) like his grandfather. Good to hear! Smile
@Lily Snape

That's what I actually hate so much when Kylo haters call him a wuss for having tantrums. Like Vader didn’t have tantrums in both Anakin and Vader form? What do you think killing all those officers in ESB was? They were tantrums evolved to a clinical Hannibal Lecter level. I tried to explain this to some of my "he's a whiny tantrum-throwing d*****" relatives at Christmas. I was like, "Don't you get it? He's still got some moral core to him! When he gets mad he destroys a bunch of computers instead murdering guys left and right." I am happy to say I did get some thoughtful silence and an end to the arguing on their side as they pondered this new outlook ... so that was all well and good ... but the moment was really emblematic of how many folks don't even look one layer deeper. No wonder JJ had to make half of the TFA nostalgic and simple. Too much change right away might have proven to be too much all at once for some of the audience and no way did LF want to risk alienating people at that point.
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Post by Lily Snape on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 1:35 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Lily Snape wrote:
@panki wrote:
@Lily Snape wrote:
I still want to know whether poor old Mitaka was Force-choked a la Vader, or whether Kylo just drags underlings across the room but then lets them live. He was, after all, asking Mitaka a question, so killing him instead of letting him answer would be fairly stupid. He was actually pretty compassionate (in the novel) about the unfortunate Daniel Craig Stormtrooper whom he left to guard Rey. Then again, he's a man of many moods.
@Lily Snape

Mitaka survived his interaction with Kylo and you can see him briefly.... he is standing near Kylo later in the movie when Han and Finn arrive on SKB (not looking scared of him so obviously no harm was done or Kylo's outburst are a regular occurrence).

@panki

Thanks! I'd rather that he take things out on computer consoles than on human beings (or other creatures) like his grandfather. Good to hear! Smile
@Lily Snape

That's what I actually hate so much when Kylo haters call him a wuss for having tantrums. Like Vader didn’t have tantrums in both Anakin and Vader form? What do you think killing all those officers in ESB was? They were tantrums evolved to a clinical Hannibal Lecter level. I tried to explain this to some of my "he's a whiny tantrum-throwing d*****" relatives at Christmas. I was like, "Don't you get it? He's still got some moral core to him! When he gets mad he destroys a bunch of computers instead murdering guys left and right." I am happy to say I did get some thoughtful silence and an end to the arguing on their side as they pondered this new outlook ... so that was all well and good ... but the moment was really emblematic of how many folks don't even look one layer deeper. No wonder JJ had to make half of the TFA nostalgic and simple. Too much change right away might have proven to be too much all at once for some of the audience and no way did LF want to risk alienating people at that point.
@SoloSideCousin

Totally agree-- the fact that he doesn't routinely and cold-bloodedly kill underlings is one reason I found him to be an interesting villain instead of just a Bad Guy. I mean, right from the start on Jakku, he spares Finn. And the novel almost seems to take pains to explain how he just wants Daniel Craig's trooper to be questioned, not punished-- no "You have failed me for the last time." And whereas Vader stands there forcing Leia to watch Alderaan get blown up, Kylo tries to talk Snoke out of using the weapon.

Aaaaaaand he orders a whole village to be slaughtered-- admittedly only after Phasma rather leadingly asks what to do with the villagers, but still-- his order, his responsibility. He kills Lor San Tekka. He kills his father. But he's a lot more complex than what we know of Vader when we see them first. That and the fact that he's been on the dark side for 6 years vs. Vader's two decades are why I never fail to be amazed by the fanboys and fangirls on various boards claiming that he's so much worse than Vader and therefore will grow more evil and cannot be redeemed.
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Post by Darth Dementor on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 3:44 am

Just watched this compelling video about Rey's potential lure to the dark side. And it gives a brief theory on the grey side of the Force, and how she and Kylo are a perfect fit for its middle ground.


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Post by Xylo Ren on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 6:59 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@snufkin

I absolutely agree with you @snufkin, and @Darth Dementor and @Irina de France here.  IMO, there is sexual subtext in TFA just like you would see in an old "Hayes Code" era movie.

And speaking of such movies, I watched Spellbound last night ... and holy sith, if Ava DuVernay wasn't influenced, even subconsciously, by *that scene* in Spellbound, then she was influenced by someone else who was influenced by Hitchcock.  OMG, the moment there and that between Rey and Kylo on the cliffside is sooooo similar.  The quick back and forth close-ups on their eyes, the eyes telling every emotion.  I swear it seemed so similar that Gregory Peck actually reminded me of Adam Driver for the rest of the movie! (And another thing, I never knew Gregory Peck was ever so hot.  I guess I only know him from his Atticus Finch and The Omen days and The Boys from Brazil (where he plays Mengele, hence he's repulsive there), so for me he's either an earnest Dad type or the worst of the worst.  I may have to look for more Gregory Peck movies).

In fact, I think JJ literally took it farther down the road than Hitchcock did because the sequence was longer, had facial expressions that could be interpreted a variety of ways (including sexualized interpretations), had motion in the camera work, *and* the bleeding of the red and blue into the new "magenta" between them ... like their energies (psyches) were being melded together, temporarily making them into one union.  I would not be a bit surprised if JJ absolutely wanted to show this melding of energies/essences/psyches between them because that's where the story is going, but initially struggled with how to show it, and Ava DuVernay gave him this Spellboundesque idea.  Thank you so much Ava! Very Happy

@SoloSideCousin

Young Peck = Hot Stuff. Ever see Roman Holiday or The Yearling? Actually one of the influences for VIII is one from that era of his career, Twelve O'Clock High, maybe some of his character will be an influence for Poe?  Peck's well loved in Northern California thanks to being a UC Berkeley alumni and lifelong booster for the school.  

@reylo1992 - I found the original post with the color sequencing, credit goes to @Xylo Ren Again, tell me that this wasn't deliberate and not meant to represent the flow of the Force, emotions, and attraction going back and forth between the two of them. Pretty inspired lighting and cinematography, absolutely beautiful. But sure, R1 is the superior Star Wars movie because it's gritty and TFA sucks because the opening crawl has the wrong font and last minute text changes.

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 13 - Page 22 Tumblr_obf3k4RP0M1v8giiro1_500

@Xylo Ren wrote:
Red-Red

Blue-Blue
Red-Blue
Blue-Red

= the transfer
@snufkin

I have not seen anywhere near enough hot Gregory Peck! Laughing I actually saw him in person once giving a talk about his life.  He was well into his 80s and still sharp as a tack with that great voice.   He was like the perfect distinguished gentleman ... so to suddenly think, "Wow, he was really hot" was a surprise.  Laughing Gregory Peck is also very well-regarded in the Irish-Catholic community.  I think he probably made friends everywhere he went.

Also, thank you so much for finding this @Xylo Ren post!!!! One of the best picture sequence posts ever!!! OMG! It's all right there in those pictures, the union and melding of energies/psyches (souls? if you want to take it a little farther).

I actually really loved Rogue One.  I thought it was tighter, better paced and overall more even in quality throughout than TFA, and the action sequences were head and shoulders above TFA IMO.  I am also admittedly a big fan of grit and realism in movies, and like an ingenious action sequence from time to time, and RO with its different style and moral greyness made me very excited as to how it showed that LF is throwing the creative doors open. 

But that being said, there is *nothing* in RO that matches this sequence, or frankly any of the Kylo parts or some of the early 'discover Rey' parts.  Like @Saracene was saying above, those parts go to a very high level, a truly inspired filmmaking level ... a level that is in a completely different ballpark than anything seen in RO.  Had the whole film been on that level, ESB might not be everyone's favorite anymore.  I think that parts of TFA suffered because of the rushing that was imposed on JJ and LK having to pull that thing together in 2 months and Disney not giving JJ the extra 6 months he asked for.  That's what makes me *so excited* about Episode VIII, because if the new team could pull off such brilliant sequences under such less than ideal circumstances, how good is Episode VIII going to be when the team really has the time and their footing?

I actually don't really like to compare RO and TFA too closely because they feel like apples and oranges to me in some ways.  My father was a big influence on me for movies and he took me to everything from esoteric arthouse films to Stallone movies, so I learned to love all kinds of films.  So to me RO does what it does, and TFA does what it does.  I mean I love that goofball movie Overboard and Woody Allen's Bullets over Broadway.  They're both comedies, but are not really comparable after that.  Overboard sets certain goals for itself and accomplishes them well.  Bullets over Broadway does the same.  But the goals and limitations for each film are very different.  I think RO had goals of bringing war-film styling and moral ambiguity and some black comedy into the SW universe.  I also think it had the commercial goal of throwing a bone to "fanboys" with tight, dramatic action. 

TFA had a whole different set of goals.  IMO it was set to start the universe anew, bring the saga to a more adult level after the prequels and ROTJ, to start to challenge the b&W thinking of the older movies, start to define the force in a different way and to create real, flesh and blood characters over archetypes.  With the Kylo stuff and some of the Rey stuff and the "OT 3 are not perfect" stuff they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.  But because of commercial pressures and a need to regain the trust of the people burned by the prequels, some of this new complexity did not extend to Finn, Poe, the Resistance and the politics because they wanted to "ease people into the changes" .... which IMO was a smart business move IMO considering some of the lack of understanding seen in certain fan segments.  I think in Episode VIII  every segment of the new saga will be in the new groove.


As for the fanboys, for all their love of the bada**ery of RO ... they seem to be clueless to the fact that a having "a guy who shoots the informant become a hero" changes the whole paradigm to such an extent that that it paves the way for that "Evil Emo Kylo Ren" to not turn eviler ... but into an anti-hero and one of the most crucial characters of the whole saga.  Very Happy

Haha, seems like so long ago! I agree, lighting is extremely intentional. It's an art form in itself!
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Post by ZioRen on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 7:20 pm

Alright I have to bring attention to this because wow, I actually totally hear Kylo say "Rey". I've seen people here say that Kylo says Rey's name while he's in pain on the ground, but I've never really heard it myself it until this video.

http://dearmisskitty.tumblr.com/post/155915371362/perrydowning-reylorobyn2011-cartoonjessie
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 7:27 pm

@ZioRen wrote:Alright I have to bring attention to this because wow, I actually totally hear Kylo say "Rey". I've seen people here say that Kylo says Rey's name while he's in pain on the ground, but I've never really heard it myself it until this video.

http://dearmisskitty.tumblr.com/post/155915371362/perrydowning-reylorobyn2011-cartoonjessie
@ZioRen

I have never been able to hear it until that link! Ahhhhhh what was he trying to tell her?
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Post by Sylvia Snow on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 8:18 pm

@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Alright I have to bring attention to this because wow, I actually totally hear Kylo say "Rey". I've seen people here say that Kylo says Rey's name while he's in pain on the ground, but I've never really heard it myself it until this video.

http://dearmisskitty.tumblr.com/post/155915371362/perrydowning-reylorobyn2011-cartoonjessie
@ZioRen

I have never been able to hear it until that link! Ahhhhhh what was he trying to tell her?
@ReyofLightSide

Come Back or Don't Leave Me?!
If Kylo did not injures, I honestly believe he would go after her
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Post by snufkin on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 11:42 pm

As with a lot of thing viewing in the theater, that part is hard to hear because it goes by so quickly. He sounds like he's gasping for breath and moaning. But once it came out on video and you had more time to watch that whole sequence, it sounds a Hell of a lot more like he's trying to say her name and gasping. There's one sound he makes in that gasp which sounds like it's stressing the Soft A in English vowel sound ("aaaaay") which is how her name is pronounced. Also there's another part of the fight where he clearly mouths something at her but the sound was cut. There is dialogue in the novel where he says "I don't want to kill you." So they may have just decided to cut all of the dialogue from their fight other than the cliffside exchange. There's also the BtS clip of him yelling "Staaawp!" so at one point it was more dialogue than duel/dance.

Also there's certainly no reason why he wouldn't know her name - if Plutt was angling to cheat/steal BB-8 away from her for the reward, he probably informed on her to the FO once she bailed and stole the MF from him. And they know Finn's identity, so "what girl?!" becomes a question of who's working with him and has the droid. And if he was able to get into her mind to pilfer through her secrets, what's to say he didn't run across her name.
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Post by ZioRen on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 11:53 pm

@snufkin wrote:As with a lot of thing viewing in the theater, that part is hard to hear because it goes by so quickly. He sounds like he's gasping for breath and moaning. But once it came out on video and you had more time to watch that whole sequence, it sounds a Hell of a lot more like he's trying to say her name and gasping. There's one sound he makes in that gasp which sounds like it's stressing the Soft A in English vowel sound ("aaaaay") which is how her name is pronounced. Also there's another part of the fight where he clearly mouths something at her but the sound was cut. There is dialogue in the novel where he says "I don't want to kill you." So they may have just decided to cut all of the dialogue from their fight other than the cliffside exchange. There's also the BtS clip of him yelling "Staaawp!" so at one point it was more dialogue than duel/dance.

Also there's certainly no reason why he wouldn't know her name - if Plutt was angling to cheat/steal BB-8 away from her for the reward, he probably informed on her to the FO once she bailed and stole the MF from him. And they know Finn's identity, so "what girl?!" becomes a question of who's working with him and has the droid. And if he was able to get into her mind to pilfer through her secrets, what's to say he didn't run across her name.
@snufkin

That 'aaaay' sound is why I couldn't just pass it off as pained noises. That's not typically a pained noise a character makes. Usually I disregard these kinds of things or find them to be a stretch, but I definitely hear it this time.

And yeah, there's multiple reasons he'd know her name, since he was literally inside her head!
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Post by jakkusun on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 12:44 am

I hear the "ay"-ish sound in it, but I still don't hear it as her name--just seems to be breathing to me. It's still a quality video clip. It's very nice and has clear sound. I haven't watched Tfa in a while and this just reminded me of how pretty and interesting it is.
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Post by snufkin on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 12:54 am

Other thing with watching that scene on a smaller screen with leisure to slow down and review, he lifts himself up and deliberately makes eye contact with her. Again, if you were just a normal person who had their face slashed/cauterized with a laser, you'd more likely be just screaming your head off and stay on the ground

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Post by ladyconsular on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 1:46 am

Don't forget when Ren sends Rey flying Finn shouts her name right in front of him!

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Post by Kyla Ren on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 3:26 am

@jakkusun wrote:I hear the "ay"-ish sound in it, but I still don't hear it as her name--just seems to be breathing to me. It's still a quality video clip. It's very nice and has clear sound. I haven't watched Tfa in a while and this just reminded me of how pretty and interesting it is.
@jakkusun

I agree.  I don't hear him saying "Rey", either.  I think he's just exhausted and in pain and doing a lot of grunting and groaning in general.
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Post by panki on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 6:49 am

I know its not an apples to apples comparison, and the context of the scene is completely different....but Kylo lying in the snow calling out to Rey reminded me of the original beauty and the beast story, where beast is lying in the garden and dying because he thinks Beauty has left him.

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As for what Kylo is saying while lying there, I thought I heard him gasping Rey a couple of times (listened with headphones many times to be sure)....and calling out "aaay....aaay" to her sounds weird. Razz

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Post by CienaRee on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 9:39 am

He totally does say her name,I wasn't sure the first few times I've heard it but now I'm convinced he does say Rey which is kind of sweet if yout think about it despite the fact that she'd just slashed his face.
Btw,I was just scrolling on tumblr when I saw this quote by Martin Luther King Jr. which reminds me of Reylo:


“Now there is a final reason I think that Jesus says, "Love your enemies." It is this: that love has within it a redemptive power. And there is a power there that eventually transforms individuals. Just keep being friendly to that person. Just keep loving them, and they can’t stand it too long. Oh, they react in many ways in the beginning. They react with guilt feelings, and sometimes they’ll hate you a little more at that transition period, but just keep loving them. And by the power of your love they will break down under the load. That’s love, you see. It is redemptive, and this is why Jesus says love. There’s something about love that builds up and is creative. There is something about hate that tears down and is destructive. So love your enemies.(from "Loving Your Enemies")”

I think someone should show this quote to anyone who says that Rey helping Kylo in having a redmeption arc takes away from her character and reduces her to a love interest or that it's sooo much more interesting for Kylo to be a one dimensional bad*** Rey spends the entire trilogy hating and eventually offing.

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Post by Magnolia_3.0 on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 9:52 am

@ladyconsular wrote:Don't forget when Ren sends Rey flying Finn shouts her name right in front of him!
@ladyconsular

In the novel of Alan Dean Foster, in the scene of the interrogation he comes to mention her name:
"Rey, you saw the map, it's in there, and I'm going to take it, do not be afraid."
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Post by Armadeus on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 9:54 am

@CienaRee wrote:He totally does say her name,I wasn't sure the first few times I've heard it but now I'm convinced he does say Rey which is kind of sweet if yout think about it despite the fact that she'd just slashed his face.
Btw,I was just scrolling on tumblr when I saw this quote by Martin Luther King Jr. which reminds me of Reylo:


“Now there is a final reason I think that Jesus says, "Love your enemies." It is this: that love has within it a redemptive power. And there is a power there that eventually transforms individuals. Just keep being friendly to that person. Just keep loving them, and they can’t stand it too long. Oh, they react in many ways in the beginning. They react with guilt feelings, and sometimes they’ll hate you a little more at that transition period, but just keep loving them. And by the power of your love they will break down under the load. That’s love, you see. It is redemptive, and this is why Jesus says love. There’s something about love that builds up and is creative. There is something about hate that tears down and is destructive. So love your enemies.(from "Loving Your Enemies")”

I think someone should show this quote to anyone who says that Rey helping Kylo in having a redmeption arc takes away from her character and reduces her to a love interest or that it's sooo much more interesting for Kylo to be a one dimensional bad*** Rey spends the entire trilogy hating and eventually offing.
@CienaRee

Loving someone (not in the romantic sense, but in the sense of the quote above) requires Herculean effort. There's nothing easy about it. Nothing to mock. If it were as easy as hatred, the world would be a far more peaceful place.

Was reading Gibran again today.

Khalil Gibran wrote:AND one of the elders of the city said, Speak to us of Good and Evil.
And he answered:
Of the good in you I can speak, but not of the evil.
For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst?
Verily when good is hungry it seeks food even in dark caves,
and when it thirsts it drinks even of dead waters.
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Post by ladyconsular on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 10:33 am

@Magnolia_3.0 wrote:
@ladyconsular wrote:Don't forget when Ren sends Rey flying Finn shouts her name right in front of him!
@ladyconsular

In the novel of Alan Dean Foster, in the scene of the interrogation he comes to mention her name:
"Rey, you saw the map, it's in there, and I'm going to take it, do not be afraid."
@Magnolia_3.0

Yeah I thought that was odd. It makes sense he knows her name in the movie because of Finn in the final scene but why only mumble it at the end of the movie? I know Finn was screaming it like crazy when he carried her off into the ship but it seems way more intimate if he had addressed her by her name in the movie itself when he interrogated her. Makes it like he has a real dangerous power and can read her mind openly and she can't hide or escape even if she tried. That makes the next part when she takes control even more powerful. Not many will read the novel and miss that.

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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 1:18 pm

@Sylvia Snow wrote:Let not forget about this transition that happened in their Snow Fight, that was pointed out by someone in this forum a while back

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There's no doubt that Kylo and Rey are connected with each other
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Wow! Is it real? No montage? Shocked
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Post by Guest on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 1:24 pm

I do hear a sound resembling 'Rey' in that video, though I'm not sure what to make of it.

Rey keeps looking back even as they're supposed to be evacuating from this planet that's literally falling apart underneath them - in the novel, it's made clear that she's looking at Kylo. I really 100% believe she would have gone back for him on the Falcon if no one else came for him.

People have their doubts about whether Rey can possibly forgive Kylo in the future, but IMO she is already feeling something that she shouldn't for her enemy. It confuses her, and I can see Luke sensing her conflict and accusing her. "You have compassion for him."

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