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Post by Irina de France on Thu 5 Jan - 22:21

@MissG wrote:I don't know I have huge doubts that they'd recast it. I mean look at RO it would have been so much cheaper for them just to cast lookalikes in some of the parts, but they went for CGI instead. I agree with the people who say that the part is too legendary for it.
@MissG

Yeah, but the fanboys would have been complaining. You know them. But here they are complaining about the CGI. Heh.
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Post by SanghaRen on Thu 5 Jan - 23:01

I complained about the CGI Leia in Rogue 1 too. It was not good and it distracted me because to me it was actually not necessary. They could have just shown her without really showing her face, which would have been powerful too. No. They had to try and play with CGI and it looks fake. I saw a pic yesterday on Internet and it's just not Leia. Actually it looks like Botox Leia. There's something frozen in her expression.

That being said, I would not mind a CGI Leia for IX if it was necessary to have a proper closure for Leia's story. It's a different situation. I am kind of petrified at the idea of Leia dying. I had always hoped she'd survive the ST. And my wish was to see mother and son reunite in IX. That famous hug with the difference of height that is on many people's mind.

And I am with @Rogue Rey on Meryl Streep. I'd only see Meryl Streep.

But well, it's all in LF's hands now.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Thu 5 Jan - 23:18

@Rogue Rey wrote:
I don't know if I'd be able to watch Meryl play Leia.  I think I'd be sat there thinking 'Oh it's Meryl Streep on screen' rather than thinking it's Leia.  Perhaps Meryl (despite her wonderful acting and friendship with Carrie) might be too much of a recognisable face?
@Rogue Rey

On the other hand, I can't think of any actress off the top of my head who has such incredible powers of transformation. I never think "wow, I'm watching Meryl Streep playing such and such" when I see her in a film. The Thatcher film was a mess in other ways, but she was Thatcher to the point that it actually felt uncanny (especially her voice!). I think few actresses could do a better job.

I don't know if she'd even do it, though. If she did, I feel like it would be essentially as a favour to an old friend.

By the way, I had no idea Carrie and Meryl were such close friends for such a long time...!
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Post by snufkin on Thu 5 Jan - 23:21

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Rogue Rey wrote:
I don't know if I'd be able to watch Meryl play Leia.  I think I'd be sat there thinking 'Oh it's Meryl Streep on screen' rather than thinking it's Leia.  Perhaps Meryl (despite her wonderful acting and friendship with Carrie) might be too much of a recognisable face?
@Rogue Rey

On the other hand, I can't think of any actress off the top of my head who has such incredible powers of transformation. I never think "wow, I'm watching Meryl Streep playing such and such" when I see her in a film. The Thatcher film was a mess in other ways, but she was Thatcher to the point that it actually felt uncanny (especially her voice!). I think few actresses could do a better job.

I don't know if she'd even do it, though. If she did, I feel like it would be essentially as a favour to an old friend.

By the way, I had no idea Carrie and Meryl were such close friends for such a long time...!
@Darth Dingbat

If Meryl can be Margaret Thatcher, she can be General Leia. And she may be one of the speakers at the memorial service because of their friendship. So if they were going to re-cast and she was game, it'd work both for the story/character and in paying tribute.


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Post by Maria Antonietta on Thu 5 Jan - 23:21

After watching r1, I can simply say: BAN CGI CHARACTERS FFS
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 5 Jan - 23:24

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Rogue Rey wrote:
I don't know if I'd be able to watch Meryl play Leia.  I think I'd be sat there thinking 'Oh it's Meryl Streep on screen' rather than thinking it's Leia.  Perhaps Meryl (despite her wonderful acting and friendship with Carrie) might be too much of a recognisable face?
@Rogue Rey

On the other hand, I can't think of any actress off the top of my head who has such incredible powers of transformation. I never think "wow, I'm watching Meryl Streep playing such and such" when I see her in a film. The Thatcher film was a mess in other ways, but she was Thatcher to the point that it actually felt uncanny (especially her voice!). I think few actresses could do a better job.

I don't know if she'd even do it, though. If she did, I feel like it would be essentially as a favour to an old friend.

By the way, I had no idea Carrie and Meryl were such close friends for such a long time...!
@Darth Dingbat

Yeah, I'm probably biased on the Meryl thing, given that I could probably be entertained by watching Meryl describe paint drying.

I do think that she'd be a good choice, though, given her amazing acting abilities AND her ties with Carrie and her family. Re-casting would give Lucasfilm and the audience a chance for Leia's story to play out the way that it was supposed to play out.
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Post by Rogue Rey on Thu 5 Jan - 23:36

I'm not claiming that Meryl Streep wouldn't be a fine choice to fill the role if it were to be recast.

I think she is a brilliant actress and have loved many of her wonderful performances, I was just saying that I don't think I'd be alone in seeing Meryl Streep (no matter how good she is) on screen rather than Leia.
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Post by Jakku on Thu 5 Jan - 23:42

The CGI in Rogue One was clever but unecessary. LFL did it as a gimmick, and it didn't matter that you could see the artificiality if you looked closely.

Leia is different. She's a beloved character whose emotional surface matters a great deal, especially in scenes between mother and son. Nobody was trying to connect with Tarkin on an emotional level, but everyone will with Leia. I think that's too much for CGI at the moment.

Even if they CGI a short scene, I'm not sure it will work. The CGI Leia has been criticised by many, I think because it looked too smooth and perfect. And that's with 19-year old Leia, all smooth and perfect at the time! Doing 50-year-old Leia with her old face and body and not making something grotesque from it would take work of artistic genius. Get it wrong by a whisker and the world will howl with anger.

I think they have to use old ST footage, or recast. And I think they'd be wise to find an actress whose face isn't widely known, so that the familiarity doesn't keep intruding.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Fri 6 Jan - 0:49

I love that MSW thinks the Kylo redemption is likely. Claps

If this brain trust is getting together, I hope that does not mean they didn't have any contingencies in place for the original 3. That is what it sounds like but I can't imagine them being that ill prepared.

If there was a confrontation scene planned for 9 I guess we will have a conflicted but still on the dark side Kylo for 8?
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Post by Saracene on Fri 6 Jan - 1:07

I fully expect dumbass comments that Reylo only happened because of Carrie's death and the writers' need to find another way to redeem Kylo (yes despite the obvious fact that Episode VIII was already filmed when she passed away).
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Post by ladyconsular on Fri 6 Jan - 1:12

I was just talking with my mum about it. If worse comes to worse they might just remove Leia from 8 and then what? Make Luke the one who saves him? I can't see his uncle being the one to turn him. Rey makes sense now but what if they make her related just so he has family to come home to? This is going to be tricky... study


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Post by snufkin on Fri 6 Jan - 1:21

@Saracene wrote:I fully expect dumbass comments that Reylo only happened because of Carrie's death and the writers' need to find another way to redeem Kylo (yes despite the obvious fact that Episode VIII was already filmed when she passed away).
@Saracene

More than likely. To go with the comments already out there from traditionalists about how nobody can replace Carrie, so they shouldn't recast the character with another actress.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 6 Jan - 1:36

@ladyconsular wrote:I was just talking with my mum about it. If worse comes to worse they might just remove Leia from 8 and then what? make Luke the one who saves him? I can't see his uncle being the one to turn him. Rey makes sense now but what if they make her related just so he has family to come home to? This is going to be tricky... study
@ladyconsular

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Post by Magnolia_3.0 on Fri 6 Jan - 1:38

I confess I'm a bit worried about what Adam said about Kylo staying alive:

  "It depends on your definition of living."

He would be seriously injured again, could become a prisoner or could be given as dead ... are many options! Shocked Shocked
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Post by ladyconsular on Fri 6 Jan - 1:46

@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@ladyconsular wrote:I was just talking with my mum about it. If worse comes to worse they might just remove Leia from 8 and then what? make Luke the one who saves him? I can't see his uncle being the one to turn him. Rey makes sense now but what if they make her related just so he has family to come home to? This is going to be tricky... study
@ladyconsular

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@Maria Antonietta

That's what I said when I first realized it might happen!

Personally I think this is the chance for Reylo to make the most sense. Have her love as a lover save him with Luke reminding him of his father and mother and how they died loving him. Episode 8 will give us a rough idea I guess. I do hope they don't cut Leia out like suggested in the article though. I just fear for their fate now after knowing a reunion might have been planned. Just keep telling yourself this is Disney lol


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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Fri 6 Jan - 1:47

Here's to hoping they've filmed the Kylo x Leia reunion scene already and so much more Leia scenes where they can simply splice and edit them onto Ep 9. 

CGI would be too tacky if used for lengthy scenes just like with Tarkin. Although it was neccessary for the story, it did feel glaring the more he appeared on screen. Leia is a sensitive issue, so despite being important to the story, they'll be treading their options very carefully.

OTOH

Wow, Holly Hunter is HOT. And she does not look 58 at all!
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Post by DarthRen on Fri 6 Jan - 1:57

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth_Awakened

I realize this article is about Carrie Fisher, and I totally respect that, but I wish these fanboys would realize that Rey, the main protagonist of the new trilogy, will play a huge role in his redemption.  As @snufkin said, Leia is a supporting character at this point, and even before Carrie's death, I wasn't expecting a reunion between mother and son until towards the end.  
@IoJovi

I agree completely with you. And unlike Jason I don't think that they had planned Leia as a crucial person in Kylo's redemption.
If it would be one - it would be Rey - as you said she is the main protagonist of ST.
However I'd expect  and very much I'd love to see Kylo and Leia scene.  
And for that moment - I really struggle to see anyone besides Carrie in that one.

When I force myself to think rationally - it would be more clever to go with the recasting - a good actress in the scene with Adam Diver would be delight.
@Darth_Awakened


It should be Leia, Snoke,Rey as reasons for Kylo's redemption. Not just Rey, that's bland. Especially, love for his mother should be there and Carrie would hate if they wrote her character out. Leia has to be there and get her happy ending. Getting her son back. Snoke's bertrayl should be there too because if it will be only Rey, it's basically like Originals trilogy.
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Post by panki on Fri 6 Jan - 2:10

@Magnolia_3.0 wrote:I confess I'm a bit worried about what Adam said about Kylo staying alive:

  "It depends on your definition of living."

He would be seriously injured again, could become a prisoner or could be given as dead ... are many options! Shocked Shocked
@Magnolia_3.0

I had a scary thought reading AD's remark.....what if Kylo's connection to the force is cut and he is no longer able to sense the force and be a force user? Then he might give up this whole jedi business and take up racing like his Dad (I agree with urban acolyte on youtube that Ben probably wished to be a smuggler or racer like his father but was sent for jedi training)....or take up politics (I hope not).

In legends, there is a famous jedi named Ulic Quel Droma who joined the sith to defeat them but ends up getting captured and tortured till he joins them..... his love interest Nomi cuts off his connection with the force..... he returns to the light as a non- force user and finally ends up training her daughter to become a jedi knight (she had a child from a previous marriage). I really hope this doesn't happen but AD's remark made me think of this story.

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Post by IoJovi on Fri 6 Jan - 2:14

@Panki that quote about "depends on what you mean by living" has me all kinds of curious.  The ever optimistic part of me has me believing it has to mean that Kylo Ren dies so Ben Solo can live, but I just don't know.  

I hate the idea of him losing his Force powers.  It'd be like losing his hearing or eyesight.

I just hope he doesn't end up mutilated like Vader.  
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Post by panki on Fri 6 Jan - 2:19

@IoJovi wrote:@Panki that quote about "depends on what you mean by living" has me all kinds of curious.  The ever optimistic part of me has me believing it has to mean that Kylo Ren dies so Ben Solo can live, but I just don't know.  

I hate the idea of him losing his Force powers.  It'd be like losing his hearing or eyesight.

I just hope he doesn't end up mutilated like Vader.  
@IoJovi

I agree......I would hate to see him lose his powers too.... Sad Though I don't mind him giving up the Force user business and taking up his father's profession.....then maybe he and Rey can be FS scoundrels together and roam the galaxy instead of being tied to politics (politics and being loyal to the republic is what destroyed the jedi order in the first place)

Being mutilated like Vader is worse...in his words- Nooooooooo! Shocked

I hope you're right and AD meant that Kylo dies and Ben lives..... really like that interpretation.

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Post by Magnolia_3.0 on Fri 6 Jan - 2:25

@panki wrote:
@Magnolia_3.0 wrote:I confess I'm a bit worried about what Adam said about Kylo staying alive:

  "It depends on your definition of living."

He would be seriously injured again, could become a prisoner or could be given as dead ... are many options! Shocked Shocked
@Magnolia_3.0

I had a scary thought reading AD's remark.....what if Kylo's connection to the force is cut and he is no longer able to sense the force and be a force user? Then he might give up this whole jedi business and take up racing like his Dad (I agree with urban acolyte on youtube that Ben probably wished to be a smuggler or racer like his father but was sent for jedi training)....or take up politics (I hope not).

In legends, there is a famous jedi named Ulic Quel Droma who joined the sith to defeat them but ends up getting captured and tortured till he joins them..... his love interest Nomi cuts off his connection with the force..... he returns to the light as a non- force user and finally ends up training her daughter to become a jedi knight (she had a child from a previous marriage). I really hope this doesn't happen but AD's remark made me think of this story.

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@Panki

This phrase really gave me what to think! Mainly, why among the films used as a reference by Rian, in at least two we see some kind of sacrifice, either in the name of love or honor ... in addition, a sacrifice on the part of Kylo would be an alternative similar to that of Vader To attain his redemption. I can even imagine that possibly at the end of Eps 8 he will not die, but may be mutilated or trapped by FO to be tortured.

Very interesting your remark, I was not aware of this information. Thank you!
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Post by IoJovi on Fri 6 Jan - 2:32

Please oh please do not hurt my boy, let alone remove any of his limbs!!! *Wails, cries and runs away...*
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Post by rey09 on Fri 6 Jan - 4:09

@IoJovi wrote:@Panki that quote about "depends on what you mean by living" has me all kinds of curious.  The ever optimistic part of me has me believing it has to mean that Kylo Ren dies so Ben Solo can live, but I just don't know.  

I hate the idea of him losing his Force powers.  It'd be like losing his hearing or eyesight.

I just hope he doesn't end up mutilated like Vader.  
@IoJovi

Yeah that's what I'm thinking- Kylo dies but Ben is reborn !
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Post by Lily Snape on Fri 6 Jan - 9:36

Well, some options re: Adam's comment:

--Loses his Force power but lives (Fire Lord Ozai, anyone?)
--Frozen in carbonite or something similar like his dad
--Dies for real and becomes a Force ghost
--Kylo dies, Ben lives
--More machine than man, like Vader

And I'm sure there are other possibilities.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 6 Jan - 10:40

@Lily Snape wrote:Well, some options re: Adam's comment:

--Loses his Force power but lives (Fire Lord Ozai, anyone?)
--Frozen in carbonite or something similar like his dad
--Dies for real and becomes a Force ghost
--Kylo dies, Ben lives
--More machine than man, like Vader

And I'm sure there are other possibilities.
@Lily Snape

I actually have some decent hope for the "Kylo dies, Ben is reborn" scenario based upon a number of things.  First, there was that old interview from TFA where he was asked if Kylo would survive the trilogy and he answers with that cryptic "I don't know where that life will go."  The terminology of "that life" was always interesting to me.  It made me think that he might think of Kylo in terms of an identity.

Next, I really don't think that if they were going to relegate Kylo/Ben to being a force ghost that AD would have said something like "it depends on what your definition of living is" for the sheer fact that really, really does sound like a force ghost and he could never give that away.  They would want a Kylo/Ben death to be a surprise.  I also don't think that they would want to actually kill him that early and confine him to just talking to Rey and Luke at this point.  He's the strongest actor in the group and he's their "baby" of a character.  I think that they will want him available to work with super strong actors like Oscar Isaac, which would never happen because Poe is not traditionally force sensitive.  Also, the way I read those articles today, I think the Kylo and Leia scenes are necessarily in VIII at all and are more likely to be in IX.  I guess he could be a force ghost ... but my goodness, how depressing for Leia to see him only when he was dead, especially now that Carrie is gone.

They could do the Vader thing, but I would be really surprised if AD would use the phrase "depends upon your definition of living" to describe a severely scarred or disabled character, especially with his work with veterans and his involvement with Sylvester Stallone's new film where he would portray the real-life quadruple amputee, Travis Mills, who seems to live a very full life despite his injuries.  I also feel like we saw another Vader recently in Saw.  Also, why make a big deal of making him beautiful and then scarring his face so vividly if he is only intended to go through some galactic meatgrinder in Episode VIII?  I mean they could do it, but my vibe is that they won't.

The losing the force powers is a possibility, though I always thought this might happen as part of a post-Episode IX punishment/exile scenario ... but right now, I think it's unlikely ... and the reason is fanboys.  If this were like the EU, where there are all kinds of force users, absolutely, positively, because there would be other young forceusers to geek out about.  But he is the only young male forceuser on the canvas, and the next generation Skywalker to boot ... even the most anti-Kylo guys love the blaster-bolt-freeze s*** ... he's going to have the force IMO, if only not have millions of fanboys heads explode, (fanboys who buy SW products), because "Rey, the girl (!!!!), gets all the power and that makes me mad!!!"

That being said, I could see a *temporary* force loss.  He could give his soul/force powers/life force/essence at the end of VIII to save someone else, most likely Rey, and that could put him into a kind of limbo between life and death.  Like Harry Potter and Dumbledore in King's Cross in Deathly Hallows.  And this ...this could be the scene where they sneak in Harrison Ford again and the two of them have it out and he has to decide, like Harry, if he wants to go back, knowing that it won't be easy.  Part of the "not easy" could be to be forceless for a while, but then when he has proven himself worthy the force comes back to him in a surprising and spectacular way, like the lightsaber flies into his hand this time ... A whole situation like that would provide a jumping off point where he has to work to be "Ben reborn" or the new and better "Kylo/Ben fusion".

You could get a similar limbo thing between life and death with a situation like the carbonite where he would also have to decide whether to fight for life or not, as something like the carbonite (or it's equivalent) could be part of the self-sacrifice.  It would also allow them to have a cliffhanger ending of "Will Kylo make it?" if he goes into a carbonite type of situation, which you know that they will love to do.

So maybe it will be all terrible for Kylo, but I just don't think it will be.  I think the "humanity" thing was a big tell from AD.  Sure humanity could mean the showing of human suffering, but think about how he also said that it was frustrating for him to be constantly told that Kylo is bad when he doesn't think he is.  If Kylo was the equivalent of Vader or Palpatine, I don't think he'd feel so aggravated.  I think he feels aggravated because he knows something.  Also, if Kylo doesn't do anything good and is put through the meatgrinder a lot of people will be like "yeah that's what you get!" and won't feel sorry for him.  AD also talked about VII being a bunch of general plot points that had to be explained by VIII.  The general picture is that Kylo is a bad father killer and that's it.  What's to be explained about that? ... Except if that's not all or even partly who he really is ... then that needs explaining for many viewers.  So IMO the humanity thing will be about how Kylo/Ben is not so soulless at all, and as such, I don't think he will full-on die or go cyborg.  Instead, I think he will get to have his own transformative journey right next to Rey.
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Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

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