Rey's Lineage Discussion II

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by ZioRen on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 4:31 pm

To be fair, the continuous description of the ST as the "continuation of the Skywalker saga" is also pretty Reywalker. Most of the general audience didn't go "oh, well Kylo Ren is there and he's a Skywalker and Luke is also there too so that's what they meant." We're used to having the Skywalker be the protagonist and of course if a trilogy is described as the story of a family, most people will just assume the main character is a member of that family. Especially one as famous as the Skywalker clan, and especially since they kept Rey's background a mystery and had the Skywalker family lightsaber call to her specifically.

It's not at all hard to see how the general audience came away with that. There's absolutely no way LF didn't know full well that would be the assumption of most people when they presented Rey and her past the way they did. For all we know, that may have been the intention to give viewers a bit of a surprise later with the real story. It's not going to go the way they think, as Luke would say.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by LesCousinsDangereux on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 5:08 pm

I do not know if this has been discussed before; I have not read the whole thread, because frankly my belief is that Rey is unrelated to anyone we know and her parents (what their names were) is not important to the story.

And I also think there is no mystery here, other than the mystery created by the fans, because there is a precedent of sorts: everyone turned out to be related to almost everyone else in the OT, so they expect this must be repeated here. But in the OT it was due to a lack of planning: When ANH was made, there were no plans for a sequel. So in ESB Vader is made the father, although this contradicted ANH from a certain point of view. And when ESB was made there were plans for another trilogy (involving Luke’s sister, someone new). But by ROTJ those plan were scrapped, so Leia became the sister ('someone else') Yoda had mentioned. So this whole thing (who is related to who) was a series of accidents (and retcons). So not an example people should expect will be followed. Also this is a planned new trilogy, and no retconning will be needed.

As for Rey, look at it from the storymakers perspective. Think how they arrived where they did. Rey is to go on the hero’s journey, starting from humble origins, leading a tough and unfulfilling life (major understatement) and she will stumble into a great adventure and go to do things that will affect the whole galaxy.

So we put her on a desert planet. (visually, desert is the easier/simpler way to show tough living conditions, that is why both her and Luke started on deserts).

She cannot be with her parents and 5 siblings, because she could not just abandon them to go to this adventure , that would be bad of her (plus she would need to return to them rather than go on to save the galaxy with Kylo Smile )Additionally, if we want her to have as tough a life as possible in that desert, it would be better if she is alone. So, she has no siblings.  And as for her parents there are two options (or rather 3):  

Option 1
She is with her parents, but they are killed in the beginning of the movie so she is free to go. A la Luke. But that would be too similar to ANH, plus I personally did not like how it was portrayed, and not sure it would go down well this time round. He was not that sad when his only family was brutally murdered and then burned, and within 1 minute he was excited he was finally free to go away with Obi-wan. And never for the rest of the movie did he look sad, or in grief by suddenly having lost his family.

Option 2
Her parents died a few years ago, and now she is alone. Say 10 years ago or 12 or 5. Does not really matter. But she knows her parents, they were John and Mary Smith, and they are dead. That would make her free to go when adventure comes calling (plus having to live on her own since very young would make her extra tough). So this seems like the option to go with. BUT there is a problem.

If she is so capable and resourceful and nothing is holding her there (since parents are dead) why is she still there?!! Why has she not managed to steal 'borrow' a ship and leave, or just negotiate with someone who has a ship to take her with them?

[And they clearly show us how tough a life she lives, scavenging the whole day in excruciating heat, for half a portion of food at the end of it! Annakin may have been a slave, but he was living like a king compared to poor Rey. And they show us Rey looking at that poor old woman also cleaning her scavenged parts before selling them, and Rey is clearly thinking cleaning ‘this is what I will become’. Not at all an inspiring prospect.]

So clearly Rey should have wanted to leave Jakku ages ago, and she would easily have managed it (as we see when she leaves with Finn on the Falcon). She would have been considered a complete idiot for staying there for so many years for no reason. So we need a good reason to justify Rey remaining on Jakku for so long …    We have to think of something… So someone in JJ’s writing /creative team had a sudden inspiration: let’s not have her parents being dead. Have them leave her there when young, promising to return. Then Rey, would have a very good reason not to want to leave (the only way for her parents to find her is to stay put). (This is option 3 Smile )

Problem solved. And no mystery. None that was intentional at least.

This changes slightly the part in the beginning ‘she needs to have no ties to Jakku so that she can leave’, but this does not cause a separate problem. It remains a fact that she has no one on Jakku. She just needs to be convinced that no one will be coming for her on Jakku in the future either, so she can conclude there is no point of her returning there. And having Rey waiting for her parents since she was 5 years old, adds another interesting and emotional element, as well as making us empathising even more with Rey. So it is a perfect solution.

So her parentage is not a mystery. Why did her parents leave her on Jakku? Because we needed a reason for orphan Rey to have stayed there alone for many years, until this adventure starts. The details of how and why can be filled later if needed. Storywise not really needed. What is needed is for Rey to know they are dead, so she does not keeps wondering about them and whether they would return. (and fans stop thinking it could be Luke or Leia). And likely that they loved her and meant to come for her but couldn’t immediately and they later died.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Saracene on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 5:39 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:I think that the main point with the Rey's family was exactly the fact THEY LEFT her behind. And the most natural question you can ask yourself what kind of people could do this? Or what happened to them to leave their daughter behind? Their identity is irrelevant in this context - it's just their actions (or whatever happened to them) that counts and which is crucial for Rey as a person.

Are they Mr. and Mrs Kenobi, Palpatine, Dooku, Hutt or Binks are irrelevant and adds zero to Rey's character - that's what my point that the red herring in or out of TFA was solely product of the  fans' fixation on her identity (in terms of the lineage) instead on the things that really matters for Rey's character motivation and possible consequences for her future choices.

I agree, though, in case you're suggesting that the explanation of what really happened to Rey  actually was in TFA - we would likely be spared of the 2 years long parentage torture. At least at some degree because for some of the hard core lineage addicts even that wouldn't be enough.
@Darth_Awakened

My point is, was there any reason not to show Rey's family in a flashback, either when they were leaving her, or some brief memories Rey has of them? I agree, their actual identities are not important, but showing whatever memories she has of them would add the sort of emotional resonance her story in TFA lacks IMO, because we never get a sense of her family or her connection to them.

And even if they showed Rey's family as Jane and Joe Doe without any indications of who they are, that would still leave room for speculation on whether they're related to Obi-Wan, Palpatine, etc. What it would effectively kill off though is the possibility of Rey being a daughter of somebody from the original trio, because we know what Han, Luke and Leia look and sound like. And TPTB were obviously reluctant to kill off that juicy branch of speculation for good. To the detriment of the story and Rey IMO.

Also, there's no real closure for Rey if she doesn't know the reasons she was left behind. "My parents left me because they didn't want me" is way, waaaaaaay different to "my parents left me to keep me safe and then got killed". In the case of the former, you can come to terms with that, grieve and move on; but if your parents were instead murdered, well wouldn't you want to get some justice or retribution? In which case, it doesn't make sense for Rey to move forward and find some new family if there was still an old one to avenge.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by CienaRee on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 5:52 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:I think that the main point with the Rey's family was exactly the fact THEY LEFT her behind. And the most natural question you can ask yourself what kind of people could do this? Or what happened to them to leave their daughter behind? Their identity is irrelevant in this context - it's just their actions (or whatever happened to them) that counts and which is crucial for Rey as a person.

Are they Mr. and Mrs Kenobi, Palpatine, Dooku, Hutt or Binks are irrelevant and adds zero to Rey's character - that's what my point that the red herring in or out of TFA was solely product of the  fans' fixation on her identity (in terms of the lineage) instead on the things that really matters for Rey's character motivation and possible consequences for her future choices.

I agree, though, in case you're suggesting that the explanation of what really happened to Rey  actually was in TFA - we would likely be spared of the 2 years long parentage torture. At least at some degree because for some of the hard core lineage addicts even that wouldn't be enough.
@Darth_Awakened

My point is, was there any reason not to show Rey's family in a flashback, either when they were leaving her, or some brief memories Rey has of them? I agree, their actual identities are not important, but showing whatever memories she has of them would add the sort of emotional resonance her story in TFA lacks IMO, because we never get a sense of her family or her connection to them.

And even if they showed Rey's family as Jane and Joe Doe without any indications of who they are, that would still leave room for speculation on whether they're related to Obi-Wan, Palpatine, etc. What it would effectively kill off though is the possibility of Rey being a daughter of somebody from the original trio, because we know what Han, Luke and Leia look and sound like. And TPTB were obviously reluctant to kill off that juicy branch of speculation for good. To the detriment of the story and Rey IMO.

Also, there's no real closure for Rey if she doesn't know the reasons she was left behind. "My parents left me because they didn't want me" is way, waaaaaaay different to "my parents left me to keep me safe and then got killed". In the case of the former, you can come to terms with that, grieve and move on; but if your parents were instead murdered, well wouldn't you want to get some justice or retribution? In which case, it doesn't make sense for Rey to move forward and find some new family if there was still an old one to avenge.
@Saracene

Yeah,exactly.I get the fascination with Rey's parents since they're the main reason that motivates her to stay on Jakku and reject going with Finn and Han so even if you're not some OT purist obsessed with her being Reywalker,etc contrary to the evidence you can still be interested in knowing who her parents are and believing Rey finding them could play a big part in the story because that's how TFA portrayed it to be.Like you said they could have shown who they were and still left people to speculate why they left her since that would be the real mystery but other than Daisy and Pablo on twitter none bothered making any clarifications like ''Hey,who Rey's parents are might not be such a big deal'' JJ tried tried to debunk Reywalker and Disney immediately made him backtrack.They totally wanted to keep that speculation alive,IMO.
It also doesn't help that in the same movie we had Lorr San Teka telling Kylo he can't deny his family while he tries to deny they mean anything to him and Han/Leia wanting him back  especially with Han/Kylo scene being the most important scene in the movie along with all the Reylo ones- that made people even more convinced that Rey finding her parents is important to her character and would make her happy.
In any case personally I think it's very important that Rey accepts where she comes from,deals with whatever she finds regarding her parents and move on to make a life and a family for herself.If she simply shrugs it off or never deals with that she'll end up like Leia who never accepted Vader being her father,denying who she is and living in lies for so many years to the detriment of her son.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Saracene on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 6:07 pm

@CienaRee I suspect that the guy who wrote the TFA novel added in bits about Rey remembering someone promise to come back for her (or something to that effect, I can't exactly remember) precisely because there's an instinctive understanding that you need to add that sort of stuff to have any kind of emotional weight to the story of a heroine waiting for her family. But of course film is a visual medium and you can't really do a scene like this without giving away who the person talking to Rey is *not*.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Kylo Men on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 6:57 pm

Reynobi and Rey Solo appear to be toast. Rian Johnson might have debunked Reywalker. So is it Palpatine or random?

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by IoJovi on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 6:59 pm

@Kylo Men wrote:Reynobi and Rey Solo appear to be toast. Rian Johnson might have debunked Reywalker. So is it Palpatine or random?
@Kylo Men

If they were to give Rey a blood relation to any major character in the OT, Palpatine would require the least exposition. Dude had about 101 concubines so it'd be easy enough to do. Still, I'm leaning towards random imperials or darksiders at this point.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Kessel on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 8:33 pm

I'll be glad when the mystery of Rey's past is answered. There's certainly something there and tptb know how SW fans are with speculation. They  knew people would wonder whether Rey is related and they certainly made her past a mystery.

I doubt she's related, but until we know otherwise, there's still a small chance they might go with Rey Skywalker which would be both predictable and confusing (story wise) all at the same time. My money is on unrelated, although I acknowledge that stranger things have happened.

The fact that it looks like the emphasis is on Rey and Kylo (as Mark indicated in a recent quote) seems to indicate to me that it would be difficult for Rey to be Luke's child because the minute she is, all the emphasis would be on that relationship. There's just no way a cousin connection could ever beat a father/daughter one.

So, the only way I could see Rey being related is if she's Rey Solo which would make very little sense after TFA  (and would require ridiculous things like mindswipes and intentional retconning) or if Luke dies (and probably Leia too) leaving Rey and Kylo all alone as the very last Skywalkers.

Anyway, I'm very curious to see what Rey's past is and I think Rian probably has an interesting answer.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Kylo Men on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 8:38 pm

Are you saying it's unlikely that five minutes after finding the father she's always wanted to find, it's unlikely she's going off on an adventure with her evil cousin?

Yeah, Idon't know how that would work story-wise, either.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by snufkin on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 11:24 pm

The only reason I'd say having her be just be abandoned is a bad plot point would be they already wrote that once for Jyn and Saw in Rogue One. Although then again, we're talking about a fictional universe that doesn't really seem to have orphanages or child protective services. So maybe that happens to a lot of characters who just haven't been featured in an SW movie until now. The other reason I'll be surprised if they decided that she was just abandoned is that you get the impression Kasdan tried to tie up all the half-a**ed loose ends he was forced to write by Lucas at the end of the OT. Like making it meaningful that Leia was Vader's daughter, Han sacrificing himself as part of his character arc, et cetera. So if JJ was like "she got dumped but we need her to hang around there long enough to rescue BB-8 and Finn from Hux's troops," you think that they'd come up with some reason. Like her parents died owing money to Unkar Plutt so she's an indentured servant. Or stuck paying off that debt the way Jabba had Han under his thumb . Unless it's just going to be straight up trauma turned into magical thinking and that in turn makes her sympathetic to whatever backstory then have for Ben/Kylo.

Also the Luke is her dad stuff, it seems like MH keeps hinting around the fact that the big drama and heartbreak for Luke was over what happened with his sister's son. Like that's the relationship he was invested in and the child he lost. You don't need to make Rey his kid because he already has his own lost child theme going on. And whatever mistakes he made that caused whatever happened, that's what will help shock her and eventually make her sympathetic/ally with his naughty nephew. That's where I have a hard time wrapping my brain around scenarios where Luke killed her parents or they were DS-ers targetted by him. Family and waiting for parents is a core motivator for her and if something went down where she understands how Ben's family let him down and drove him in the direction of Snoke, that's all she needs. Luke doesn't have to have murdered her parents, he just needs to have failed in a way that makes her understand how that could've turned Ben into Kylo. And which taps into her own feelings of abandonment.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by fuhry on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:22 am

I haven't actually watched the Boyega thing where he supposedly debunks Rey Kenobi, but I will say that it is very much a George Lucas trademark to make everyone connected. Most people have probably seen the OT first, but if you saw the PT first and then watched the OT, the major characters are connected to someone that showed up in the PT, except for Han Solo. Even Chewebacca and Tarkin show up in the PT. I'm pretty sure that when George created the Obi-wan / Satine romance with it's ambiguous nephew that looked kind of like Obi-wan, he was doing so with an eye toward a Sequel Trilogy, even if he didn't in the end want to do it himself. I'm reasonably certain George created a possible Obi-wan descendant for use in the future.

Now, we all know that once George sold to Disney, Kk, Abrams, and the story group went their own way. But if you think about the whole arc of a 9 episode trilogy, and generally how Star Wars has gone, it's a little weird to have a main character show up that's unconnected to anyone in the PT or the OT. It's not weird or wrong in a story sense... but it probably wouldn't be the way George would do it. And so it just feels a little strange to think of Rey being a random orphan. It seems that she (and Snoke, for that matter) should have some connection to someone that appeared in previous films.

But I can see that it might be cool to counter that expectation with something new and different. I've been on the Rey Kenobi train for a long time, but I don't think I'm going to end up disappointed in the movie if it doesn't match my headcanon. The Rey lineage question has been one of the most fascinating things to follow along with for the last two years. Can't wait to see how it turns out!
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Gemlake on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:30 pm

I think some of the confusion over Rey is because she was originally written to be a Solo.  JJ and Kasdan made a last second decision, very late in pre-production, to have Kylo Ren be the "big bad."  This impacted the script in many ways, including the creation of Snoke, the truncation of Finn's storyline, and--in my opinion--the change in Rey's parentage.  The process is outlined in the Force of Awakens art book.
The problem was that many of the large action sets, including the Falcon on Jakku, had already been created.  So when ReyWalkers squawk about why Rey Random is on a desert planet, a la Luke, with the Falcon on it, just remember that this is the hand JJ was dealt.  I'm glad he made the switch, as Reylo is far more interesting than a redo battle of good and evil like the original trilogy.  
Another interesting script change that supports Reylo is that Rey (or Kira) originally had a "protector" or bodyguard with her on Jakku.  He disappears in the concept art around the same time that Kylo first appears.  If JJ wanted Rey to be a Solo or Skywalker, why would he remove her protector?  The fact that she was left completely alone on Jakku is the biggest hurdle for ReyWalkers.  Of course, it makes perfect sense, if the focus is on giving Rey a common background with Kylo, and the desire to find belonging wherever she can.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 1:01 pm

@fuhry wrote:...if you saw the PT first and then watched the OT, the major characters are connected to someone that showed up in the PT, except for Han Solo.  Even Chewebacca and Tarkin show up in the PT.

yes, but to be honst- I don't like how GL dealt with all of it... you know in the OT it wasn't planned for Vader to be Lukes father or Leia his sister...but somehow it worked out anyway. But to connect everyone in some way just because it worked once back in then... it feels like too much of coincidence for me. Like the universe is one small village where everyone is related somehow or know each other L-puke  ...and I think it's time to move away from this type of storytelling. It's outdated.

Like Kylo says in the tailer: let the past die yes, please! KILL IT! I don't need characters or their relatives to show up in every movie

@fuhry wrote:
I'm pretty sure that when George created the Obi-wan / Satine romance with it's ambiguous nephew that looked kind of like Obi-wan,  he was doing so with an eye toward a Sequel Trilogy, even if he didn't in the end want to do it himself.  I'm reasonably certain George created a possible Obi-wan descendant for use in the future.

I know many fans on this board are into Rey Kenobi - since I don't really care who she is, as long as she isn't related to Kylo, I would feel happy for them if she turn out to be somehow related to Obi-Wan. But I truly doubt that's where they were going with the storyline. I maybe wrong because it's just a feeling...

@fuhry wrote:
Now, we all know that once George sold to Disney, Kk, Abrams, and the story group went their own way.  But if you think about the whole arc of a 9 episode trilogy, and generally how Star Wars has gone, it's a little weird to have a main character show up that's unconnected to anyone in the PT or the OT.   It's not weird or wrong in a story sense... but it probably wouldn't be the way George would do it.  And so it just feels a little strange to think of Rey being a random orphan.   It seems that she (and Snoke, for that matter) should have some connection to someone that appeared in previous films.  

Why should it be weird? It's about time to bring fresh blood into the story - always going back to characters we know is what makes ME fan fatigue.

@fuhry wrote:
But I can see that it might be cool to counter that expectation with something new and different.  I've been on the Rey Kenobi train for a long time, but I don't think I'm going to end up disappointed in the movie if it doesn't match my headcanon.  The Rey lineage question has been one of the most fascinating things to follow along with for the last two years.  Can't wait to see how it turns out!
@fuhry

Well, for me it was just annoying as hell- I get why the marking keep it secret... it's clever in a way. It kept people talking for 2 years. But I'm afraid many people will be disappointed because they didn't match their head canon- they discussed and fought made podcasts and in the end it turns out to be unimportant.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by BigDeal2187 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:00 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:I would feel happy for them if she turn out to be somehow related to Obi-Wan. But I truly doubt that's where they were going with the storyline.

Well there's no need to wonder anymore.  John Boyega debunked it on the weekend.  The video is a couple pages back in this thread.  Take it from someone who is (was) a Rey Kenobist through and through.  There's no way around what John said.  Trust me, I tried.

Yes, I know, I'm not supposed to be here right now. Was going to do a total blackout until Dec. 15 but one of my friends told me about it so I had to see for myself, and now I just don't care anymore.  A part of me is relieved.  Now I can let go of that expectation and just sit back, relax and enjoy TLJ.  Looking forward to it.  I love Rey's character - always have, always will.

But yes I am a bit disappointed, though not even first and foremost because Rey isn't a Kenobi, but because the whole premise that Rey's lineage could be determined based on clues/evidence from TFA was false to begin with.  That's partly my fault for thinking that although Lucasfilm certainly didn't help in that regard.  But of course there are clues in TFA as to what Rey's family/lineage isn't (Skywalker/Solo).

That being said, all those parallels between Rey and Obi-Wan didn't just evaporate.  There's still something there.  It was never a ridiculous idea to consider the possible connection.  And Obi-Wan speaking directly to Rey, knowing her name, and telling her "these are your first steps" -- I still don't buy that it's just a throw-away.  Oh well, we'll learn more in TLJ.

My hat's off to John Boyega though because I'm sure that Lucasfilm didn't green light what he did.  At least he had the guts to say something and I respect him for it (hey look at my username).  But at the same time I really wish that Lucasfilm would have given Daisy herself the courtesy of debunking it.  After all, she's the one who has/had to deal with most of the constant nagging and questions about her family.  Also, remind me to never ever trust Anthony Breznican's insider information ever again. lol

I know there are some people here who are still saying that Rey's family/lineage aren't important.  Perhaps. But my advice: don't do that.  You could very well end up making the same mistake that (former) Rey Kenobists like myself did: assuming too much before you know the rest of the story.

Alright.  Bring on the movie already.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by TheBastardofMandalore on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:16 pm

@BigDeal2187 wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:I would feel happy for them if she turn out to be somehow related to Obi-Wan. But I truly doubt that's where they were going with the storyline.

Well there's no need to wonder anymore.  John Boyega debunked it on the weekend.  The video is a couple pages back in this thread.  Take it from someone who is (was) a Rey Kenobist through and through.  There's no way around what John said.  Trust me, I tried.

Yes, I know, I'm not supposed to be here right now. Was going to do a total blackout until Dec. 15 but one of my friends told me about it so I had to see for myself, and now I just don't care anymore.  A part of me is relieved.  Now I can let go of that expectation and just sit back, relax and enjoy TLJ.  Looking forward to it.  I love Rey's character - always have, always will.

But yes I am a bit disappointed, though not even first and foremost because Rey isn't a Kenobi, but because the whole premise that Rey's lineage could be determined based on clues/evidence from TFA was false to begin with.  That's partly my fault for thinking that although Lucasfilm certainly didn't help in that regard.  But of course there are clues in TFA as to what Rey's family/lineage isn't (Skywalker/Solo).

That being said, all those parallels between Rey and Obi-Wan didn't just evaporate.  There's still something there.  It was never a ridiculous idea to consider the possible connection.  And Obi-Wan speaking directly to Rey, knowing her name, and telling her "these are your first steps" -- I still don't buy that it's just a throw-away.  Oh well, we'll learn more in TLJ.

My hat's off to John Boyega though because I'm sure that Lucasfilm didn't green light what he did.  At least he had the guts to say something and I respect him for it (hey look at my username).  But at the same time I really wish that Lucasfilm would have given Daisy herself the courtesy of debunking it.  After all, she's the one who has/had to deal with most of the constant nagging and questions about her family.  Also, remind me to never ever trust Anthony Breznican's insider information ever again. lol

I know there are some people here who are still saying that Rey's family/lineage aren't important.  Perhaps.  But my advice: don't do that.  You could very well end up making the same mistake that (former) Rey Kenobists like myself did: assuming too much before you know the rest of the story.

Alright.  Bring on the movie already.
@BigDeal2187

Oh ye of so little faith!  Wink

I maybe setting myself up for a huge letdown,  but that being said, I have always been one to take the grandiose statements of the cast, crew, etc with a grain of salt. They are in countdown mode and will misdirect to the Nth degree to build up for a huge reveal. For me the Kenobi parallels are too important to ignore. Confus

Hello again btw! Thought we weren’t going to hear from you for another week... Waves

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:24 pm

@BigDeal2187 wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:I would feel happy for them if she turn out to be somehow related to Obi-Wan. But I truly doubt that's where they were going with the storyline.

Well there's no need to wonder anymore.  John Boyega debunked it on the weekend.  The video is a couple pages back in this thread.  Take it from someone who is (was) a Rey Kenobist through and through.  There's no way around what John said.  Trust me, I tried.

Yes, I know, I'm not supposed to be here right now. Was going to do a total blackout until Dec. 15 but one of my friends told me about it so I had to see for myself, and now I just don't care anymore.  A part of me is relieved.  Now I can let go of that expectation and just sit back, relax and enjoy TLJ.  Looking forward to it.  I love Rey's character - always have, always will.

But yes I am a bit disappointed, though not even first and foremost because Rey isn't a Kenobi, but because the whole premise that Rey's lineage could be determined based on clues/evidence from TFA was false to begin with.  That's partly my fault for thinking that although Lucasfilm certainly didn't help in that regard.  But of course there are clues in TFA as to what Rey's family/lineage isn't (Skywalker/Solo).

That being said, all those parallels between Rey and Obi-Wan didn't just evaporate.  There's still something there.  It was never a ridiculous idea to consider the possible connection.  And Obi-Wan speaking directly to Rey, knowing her name, and telling her "these are your first steps" -- I still don't buy that it's just a throw-away.  Oh well, we'll learn more in TLJ.

My hat's off to John Boyega though because I'm sure that Lucasfilm didn't green light what he did.  At least he had the guts to say something and I respect him for it (hey look at my username).  But at the same time I really wish that Lucasfilm would have given Daisy herself the courtesy of debunking it.  After all, she's the one who has/had to deal with most of the constant nagging and questions about her family.  Also, remind me to never ever trust Anthony Breznican's insider information ever again. lol

I know there are some people here who are still saying that Rey's family/lineage aren't important.  Perhaps.  But my advice: don't do that.  You could very well end up making the same mistake that (former) Rey Kenobists like myself did: assuming too much before you know the rest of the story.

Alright.  Bring on the movie already.
@BigDeal2187
Those of us in the "random" camp have never argued that Rey's lineage/family are unimportant. It's absolutely true that Rey needs an answer, but that answer will not be something that gives her guidance or provides her with belonging. We have emphasized time and again that Rey is what matters. Rey's powers, Rey's destiny, Rey's purpose in the grander galaxy. Not where she comes from, but where she's going.

We have been listening hard for the past two years and going over new information with as fine-toothed a comb as any fan of a specific lineage theory. And the end of the day it always came back to the major message Rey's character promoted in TFA that was outlined by Maz Kanata on Takodana:

"The belonging you seek is not behind you - it is ahead".

What is behind her? Her family. What is ahead? Belonging. She can never find belonging in her past.

These quotes from Daisy (among many others) also follow this theme, at theme that is clearly continuing in TLJ:
I think the wonderful thing -- especially about this film is it's all about progress and the relationships people are making now. And obviously things are influenced by what you had before. But I just think it's beautiful that the relationships are formed with people that aren't even necessarily -- that wouldn't be classed as family, but family is who you choose, I think. You can choose to love people and bring them into your home and make a life with a group of people who have no blood relation to you."
In the story [the answer] is important to her, but ultimately regardless, she is who she is, she's going in a direction, and she's surrounded by people that have made her a part of their family."


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by MyOnlyHope on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:27 pm

Come on guys... don't slip into the same state of denial as the Reywalkers. Rey Kenobi is dead. John shot it down clear as day. It's time to finally accept that character parallels, be they with Luke, Han, or Obi-Wan, never pointed toward anything. Let it go and start considering the character that Rey herself is.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Kessel on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:45 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:
@fuhry wrote:...if you saw the PT first and then watched the OT, the major characters are connected to someone that showed up in the PT, except for Han Solo.  Even Chewebacca and Tarkin show up in the PT.

yes, but to be honst- I don't like how GL dealt with all of it... you know in the OT it wasn't planned for Vader to be Lukes father or Leia his sister...but somehow it worked out anyway. But to connect everyone in some way just because it worked once back in then... it feels like too much of coincidence for me. Like the universe is one small village where everyone is related somehow or know each other L-puke  ...and I think it's time to move away from this type of storytelling. It's outdated.

Like Kylo says in the tailer: let the past die yes, please! KILL IT! I don't need characters or their relatives to show up in every movie

@Night Huntress

Goodness, yes! The over abundance of coincidental connections between OT and PT characters was one of my biggest pet peeves with the PT. Anakin built C-3PO, R-2 belonged to Padme, Chewie knew Yoda... it all seemed rather contrived and silly.

@MyOnlyHope wrote:Come on guys... don't slip into the same state of denial as the Reywalkers. Rey Kenobi is dead. John shot it down clear as day. It's time to finally accept that character parallels, be they with Luke, Han, or Obi-Wan, never pointed toward anything. Let it go and start considering the character that Rey herself is.
@MyOnlyHope

Yeah, imo, it's clear from what John said that Rey Kenobi isn't happening. He has no reason to lie about something like that.

I'll say I'm surprised he debunked it like that though, considering we're so close to the movie and it was a theory people were speculating on.

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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by SheLitAFire on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:59 pm

I just find it weird that it would be John who debunked it after all this time. Like, not JJ? Rian? Daisy? Kathleen? Everyone else has been so hush hush or allowed/played into the speculation.

ETA: and yes, I saw that interview, heard it plain as day, not really denying it; just finding it weird
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by panki on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:33 pm

I've noticed that JB has debunked other popular fan theories in the past including finnrey and stormpilot....so not surprised he debunked this one as well.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by snufkin on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:39 pm

The crazy thing is that debunk has fans elsewhere hopping back on the Rey Solo and Rey Skywalker trains. And there are still die-hard Finnreys who still believe despite what JB's said outright.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Night Huntress on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 12:45 am

@BigDeal2187 wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:I would feel happy for them if she turn out to be somehow related to Obi-Wan. But I truly doubt that's where they were going with the storyline.

Well there's no need to wonder anymore.  John Boyega debunked it on the weekend.  The video is a couple pages back in this thread.  Take it from someone who is (was) a Rey Kenobist through and through.  There's no way around what John said.  Trust me, I tried.

I know- I saw the video... but some have still doubts about what he said. I just wanted to be clear - even if I'm in the "Rey Random Camp" I'm not an "Anti-Kenobi" or something.

John said in the interview about Rey keeping her British accent because she might have a connection to Obi-Wan:
"...I think that fans should move on from that one - trust me I got your back" - If there is any chance she is a Kenobi I don't think he would have said that. I really don't. That wouldn't be misdirection it would be mean and John just isn't like that.


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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by RosiePancake on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 12:53 am

@BigDeal2187 wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:I would feel happy for them if she turn out to be somehow related to Obi-Wan. But I truly doubt that's where they were going with the storyline.

Well there's no need to wonder anymore. John Boyega debunked it on the weekend. The video is a couple pages back in this thread. Take it from someone who is (was) a Rey Kenobist through and through. There's no way around what John said. Trust me, I tried.

Yes, I know, I'm not supposed to be here right now. Was going to do a total blackout until Dec. 15 but one of my friends told me about it so I had to see for myself, and now I just don't care anymore. A part of me is relieved. Now I can let go of that expectation and just sit back, relax and enjoy TLJ. Looking forward to it. I love Rey's character - always have, always will.

But yes I am a bit disappointed, though not even first and foremost because Rey isn't a Kenobi, but because the whole premise that Rey's lineage could be determined based on clues/evidence from TFA was false to begin with. That's partly my fault for thinking that although Lucasfilm certainly didn't help in that regard. But of course there are clues in TFA as to what Rey's family/lineage isn't (Skywalker/Solo).

That being said, all those parallels between Rey and Obi-Wan didn't just evaporate. There's still something there. It was never a ridiculous idea to consider the possible connection. And Obi-Wan speaking directly to Rey, knowing her name, and telling her "these are your first steps" -- I still don't buy that it's just a throw-away. Oh well, we'll learn more in TLJ.

My hat's off to John Boyega though because I'm sure that Lucasfilm didn't green light what he did. At least he had the guts to say something and I respect him for it (hey look at my username). But at the same time I really wish that Lucasfilm would have given Daisy herself the courtesy of debunking it. After all, she's the one who has/had to deal with most of the constant nagging and questions about her family. Also, remind me to never ever trust Anthony Breznican's insider information ever again. lol

I know there are some people here who are still saying that Rey's family/lineage aren't important. Perhaps. But my advice: don't do that. You could very well end up making the same mistake that (former) Rey Kenobists like myself did: assuming too much before you know the rest of the story.

Alright. Bring on the movie already.

You know who is the "Obiwan" of sequel? It's Obiwan "Ben" Solo aka Kylo Ren. But they couldn't use Adam's voice because it would be too obvious, so they use the other Obiwan voice instead. Someday Kylo will be Rey's teacher, and he will directly tell her that parallel quote "these are your first steps"
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by Night Huntress on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 1:23 am

@Kessel wrote:
@Night Huntress

Goodness, yes! The over abundance of coincidental connections between OT and PT characters was one of my biggest pet peeves with the PT. Anakin built C-3PO, R-2 belonged to Padme, Chewie knew Yoda... it all seemed rather contrived and silly.

@Kessel

Exactly - I don't mind if some characters are connected - But it was way too much! That was also my main complain about TFA...too much coincidence. Some of it can be great, but too much of it is bad for the story.
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Re: Rey's Lineage Discussion II

Post by fuhry on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:34 am

I don't really mind if Rey is not a Kenobi - I'm sure I will enjoy the film regardless. The only thing that would piss me off about it is that I think the Rey Kenobi idea is a totally workable and totally compelling concept. It rhymes nicely with the PT and the OT. The idea of Obi-wan falling in love and possibly having a kid before the events of the Phantom Menace exists in canon. And the idea of a Kenobi descendant fighting and eventually redeeming the last Skywalker is kind of epic.

Nevertheless, I've been poo-poo'd by a lot of Reywalkers and Rey Randoms over the last couple of years. I would LOOOOVE for all those people to get their comeuppance. I mourn losing the ability to gloat.

But if that's the way it has to be, then... REY DOOKU IT IS!
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