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Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 5:29 am

@Mana wrote:Who cares if Kylo sells better than Rey? are people are actually in pain over this? Darth Vader still outsells hero Luke Skywalker to this day. In fact, I have never in my life seen Luke Skywalker merchandise anywhere while Darth Vader is EVERYWHERE   #whereisLuke...
@Mana

That's very true - Luke merchandise is really hard to find. Heck, in comparison with Vader, the OT3 is hard to find in any form. Which is a pity because I've never cared much for the Vader aesthetic and I'm slightly annoyed that Vader needs to be on almost everything...

(Don't care much for the black-red masked Kylo/FO aesthetic either - I've got some Kylo items, but given the choice I tend to go for Rey merch. Of course, if we ever get merchandise with Rey AND unmasked Kylo, I'll be throwing all my money at it. rabbit )
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 5:48 am

1. DARTH VADER should be everywhere. No discussion here. lol!

2. Anyone interest in some cool new TLJ AT-ATs?

http://makingstarwars.net/2017/03/star-wars-the-last-jedis-first-order-heavy-assault-walker-is-one-mad-gorilla/

Imagine a pissed off gorilla with his front arms on the ground looking at you and then transform him into an AT-AT and you have the First Order Heavy Assault Walkers.

It looks like something PH would draw.

ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -14  - Page 38 Img_5063


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 6:18 am

To be honest he seems to be selling pretty well here in the UK.
And frankly - please no mask for TLJ!
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Post by Piper Maru on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:09 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:I read one post about Kylo's role to be cut because unexpected unpopularity. Sounds like nonsense to me. Given what we've learned so far. Poe's role and BB-8's role will have larger size and that's what i heard about re-written roles.
@DarthRen

Where did you read that?  I think Kylo is very popular.
@Kyla Ren

Either twitter or tumblr. I did know that Poe and BB-8 will have sizeably larger roles due to their popularity but didn't heard this. Probably just nonsense rumour.
@DarthRen

You guys should forget about tumblr. Kylo is VERY popular. In Brazil, he's actually the face of the Sequel Trilogy and proeminent in every single piece of merchandising.

That said, I do think they did re-write a few things about him. His connection with the Skywalkers in TFA was more said than shown, and the result is a lot of fans questioning him as the legacy child of the Skywalkers. They're going to make his relationship with Luke and Leia more... explicit. I also they'll try to make his 'connection' with Rey more palpable, since no one could guess she took Force tricks from him without reading the books/script.


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Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:10 am

Hmmm:

https://twitter.com/MakingStarWars/status/846288980081491968

Jason Ward
@MakingStarWars

"The Last Jedi" looks like the "Star Wars" prequels took "Game of Thrones" on a date and they had a baby called "The Last Jedi."

He's talking about the visuals of the film, but still. Interesting.
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Post by Piper Maru on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:30 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:Hmmm:

https://twitter.com/MakingStarWars/status/846288980081491968

Jason Ward
@MakingStarWars

"The Last Jedi" looks like the "Star Wars" prequels took "Game of Thrones" on a date and they had a baby called "The Last Jedi."

He's talking about the visuals of the film, but still. Interesting.
@Darth Dingbat

Oh man. This is going to fuel the "incest in Star Wars" and "kissing cousins" discourse so badly Laughing
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:38 am

Apparently, Gary Barlow is in TLJ, too. Maybe he will serenade Reylo lol!
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Post by Irina de France on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:39 am

@Maria Antonietta wrote:Apparently, Gary Barlow is in TLJ, too. Maybe he will serenade Reylo lol!
@Maria Antonietta

Maybe they'll use him on the Dubrovnik planet, considering there's a casino there?
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:42 am

@Irina de France wrote:
@Maria Antonietta wrote:Apparently, Gary Barlow is in TLJ, too. Maybe he will serenade Reylo lol!
@Maria Antonietta

Maybe they'll use him on the Dubrovnik planet, considering there's a casino there?
@Irina de France

I've read on Twitter that he plays something more than a normal Stormtrooper. I guess we'll find out soon
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Post by Rogue Rey on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:44 am

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 7:52 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:Hmmm:

https://twitter.com/MakingStarWars/status/846288980081491968

Jason Ward
@MakingStarWars

"The Last Jedi" looks like the "Star Wars" prequels took "Game of Thrones" on a date and they had a baby called "The Last Jedi."

He's talking about the visuals of the film, but still. Interesting.
@Darth Dingbat

Dubrovnik - definitely as a main trait of a baby.

(although my immediate thought was: wtf ?? L(eia) + L(uke) = R(ey). lol! )

Bad joke indeed.
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Post by SkyStar on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 8:02 am

yess space cars in Dubrovnik!

*making some lame joke about Gary Barlow playing Reys father or mother or whatever*
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Post by panki on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 8:04 am

Maybe Gary Barlow belts out a song in the casino scene? Razz

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Post by snufkin on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 2:49 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:In truth, nobody knows the real sales figures for anything. There's absolutely no proof (except Kylo haters' word) that Kylo didn't sell - and nobody knows whether Rey outsold Kylo, either. There were a lot more different products in different categories for Kylo, so the comparison would be difficult to begin with. The only thing that is a fact is that there was a big demand for Rey merchandise, which they should have been prepared for but apparently weren't.

The source for that article was some blog called Sweatpants and Coffee, whose source in turn was Heroic Girls, a non-profit promoting positive role models for girls. This non-profit's founder claims to have spoken with "Disney people", who told him that they're "stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving". This is the only source for this claim. What is the likelihood of Disney's official representatives telling some random non-profit that their products aren't selling? Come on. He should have at least referenced an anonymous source at Hasbro or something, to sound more believable.

Please note that Rey being popular =/= Kylo not selling. Both Rey and Kylo items seemed to top bestseller lists, anyway.

This was news about a year ago to the point that JJ Abrams came out and said something in response. So it doesn't sound like the typical Internet comments section wishful thinking or beating up on one particular character over another.

Also the original blog post talks about the changes here in the States about advertising law in the 1980s, when Reagan was president and his administration was pretty de-regulation happy. That's the actual lede, so reading this at least as somebody who's of that nationality, it makes sense to me:

The toy industry is more gender-divided now than at any time in the past 50 years, according to Elizabeth Sweet, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Davis. She’s a noted authority in the sociology of gender-based toy design and marketing. Analyses of historical toy catalogs show that in the 1970s more than half of toys were not designated as being specifically for one gender, whereas now, very few toys are marketed as gender-neutral, according to Sweet.

Marcotte points back to the deregulation of the advertising industry in the 1980s under Pres. Ronald Reagan as the origination point for the gender-division trend. “Once that happened, toy manufacturers realized they could increase sales by designing toys to be more narrowly targeted. Instead of having just a ball, you could make it pink and put a princess on it; or, paint it blue and put GI Joe on it. Now parents have to buy two sets of toys, one for their daughter and one for their son.”

But that long-term trend has had significant sociological impacts. “Girls and boys do not play together as much as they used to,” Marcotte said. “These gender divisions are hard-coded into their toys and it informs their behavior in ways that has lasting results on their presumptions.”

I don't think that they're saying that the products for that character aren't selling, because they're not. I had a trio of tiny Kylos come trick or treating to my house for Halloween. Poor tiny Kylos were confused when I asked them if they'd come looking for the map. He's very popular. It's just that those specific set of laws were gutted here over 30 years. So toy manufacturers were free to start selling based on what they thought would turn the biggest profit. And also started really pushing the segmented product lines by gender for girls (hence the rise of pink and princess culture) versus boys. It's really more about putting what happened with the manufacturers having a 30 year precedent to do whatever they wanted because there were no legal requirements and getting a hard lesson that times have changed. Both in terms of the movies/characters and what society wants. And in this specific case, it's looking here at the US. Also the person being quoted as having spoken with Disney is a university professor, at a respected university very close to where I live. So she's not some random person making up a bunch of nonsense to suit a straw man argument.

Anyways, I'm sure some people who dislike the character for whatever reason are perfectly happen to use this anecdote as a reason to beat up on him and as a way to elevate Rey. But it's kind of a weird area of how Star Wars has become a global phenomena and sometimes things get lost in translation. Because what's really discussed in that article has to do with the impact of government deregulation and industry trends in one specific country. Especially when it impacts on which gender is privileged for the R word (representation) and access to products/resources. In short, it's as much about gender as it is about economics and legal regulations.





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Post by Irina de France on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 2:51 pm

I've seen TONS of mini Reys and mini Kylos last year. They were by far the most popular. So I don't get it?!
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 3:17 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:In truth, nobody knows the real sales figures for anything. There's absolutely no proof (except Kylo haters' word) that Kylo didn't sell - and nobody knows whether Rey outsold Kylo, either. There were a lot more different products in different categories for Kylo, so the comparison would be difficult to begin with. The only thing that is a fact is that there was a big demand for Rey merchandise, which they should have been prepared for but apparently weren't.

The source for that article was some blog called Sweatpants and Coffee, whose source in turn was Heroic Girls, a non-profit promoting positive role models for girls. This non-profit's founder claims to have spoken with "Disney people", who told him that they're "stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving". This is the only source for this claim. What is the likelihood of Disney's official representatives telling some random non-profit that their products aren't selling? Come on. He should have at least referenced an anonymous source at Hasbro or something, to sound more believable.

Please note that Rey being popular =/= Kylo not selling. Both Rey and Kylo items seemed to top bestseller lists, anyway.

This was news about a year ago to the point that JJ Abrams came out and said something in response. So it doesn't sound like the typical Internet comments section wishful thinking or beating up on one particular character over another.

Also the original blog post talks about the changes here in the States about advertising law in the 1980s, when Reagan was president and his administration was pretty de-regulation happy. That's the actual lede, so reading this at least as somebody who's of that nationality, it makes sense to me:

The toy industry is more gender-divided now than at any time in the past 50 years, according to Elizabeth Sweet, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Davis. She’s a noted authority in the sociology of gender-based toy design and marketing. Analyses of historical toy catalogs show that in the 1970s more than half of toys were not designated as being specifically for one gender, whereas now, very few toys are marketed as gender-neutral, according to Sweet.

Marcotte points back to the deregulation of the advertising industry in the 1980s under Pres. Ronald Reagan as the origination point for the gender-division trend. “Once that happened, toy manufacturers realized they could increase sales by designing toys to be more narrowly targeted. Instead of having just a ball, you could make it pink and put a princess on it; or, paint it blue and put GI Joe on it. Now parents have to buy two sets of toys, one for their daughter and one for their son.”

But that long-term trend has had significant sociological impacts. “Girls and boys do not play together as much as they used to,” Marcotte said. “These gender divisions are hard-coded into their toys and it informs their behavior in ways that has lasting results on their presumptions.”

I don't think that they're saying that the products for that character aren't selling, because they're not. I had a trio of tiny Kylos come trick or treating to my house for Halloween. Poor tiny Kylos were confused when I asked them if they'd come looking for the map. He's very popular. It's just that those specific set of laws were gutted here over 30 years. So toy manufacturers were free to start selling based on what they thought would turn the biggest profit. And also started really pushing the segmented product lines by gender for girls (hence the rise of pink and princess culture) versus boys. It's really more about putting what happened with the manufacturers having a 30 year precedent to do whatever they wanted because there were no legal requirements and getting a hard lesson that times have changed. Both in terms of the movies/characters and what society wants. And in this specific case, it's looking here at the US.  Also the person being quoted as having spoken with Disney is a university professor, at a respected university very close to where I live. So she's not some random person making up a bunch of nonsense to suit a straw man argument.

Anyways, I'm sure some people who dislike the character for whatever reason are perfectly happen to use this anecdote as a reason to beat up on him and as a way to elevate Rey. But it's kind of a weird area of how Star Wars has become a global phenomena and sometimes things get lost in translation. Because what's really discussed in that article has to do with the impact of government deregulation and industry trends in one specific country. Especially when it impacts on which gender is privileged for the R word (representation) and access to products/resources. In short, it's as much about gender as it is about economics and legal regulations.





@snufkin

Just to clarify - it wasn't the professor who claimed to have spoken with Disney, but this guy:
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/feminist-man-know-john-marcotte-founder-heroic-girls/

Not that I'd like to call anyone a liar, professor or no professor. But I'm just questioning who exactly these "Disney people" are and what motive could they possibly have to tell their own character - and big investment - isn't selling. And this was very early in 2016, too.

The quote:


“I’ve spoken with Disney people, and they were completely blindsided by the reaction to the new Star Wars characters,” Marcotte went on to say. “They put a huge investment into marketing and merchandizing the Kylo Ren character. They presumed he would be the big breakout role from the film. They were completely surprised when it was Rey everyone identified with and wanted to see more of. Now they’re stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving, and a tidal wave of complaints about a lack of Rey items.”
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 3:30 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:In truth, nobody knows the real sales figures for anything. There's absolutely no proof (except Kylo haters' word) that Kylo didn't sell - and nobody knows whether Rey outsold Kylo, either. There were a lot more different products in different categories for Kylo, so the comparison would be difficult to begin with. The only thing that is a fact is that there was a big demand for Rey merchandise, which they should have been prepared for but apparently weren't.

The source for that article was some blog called Sweatpants and Coffee, whose source in turn was Heroic Girls, a non-profit promoting positive role models for girls. This non-profit's founder claims to have spoken with "Disney people", who told him that they're "stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving". This is the only source for this claim. What is the likelihood of Disney's official representatives telling some random non-profit that their products aren't selling? Come on. He should have at least referenced an anonymous source at Hasbro or something, to sound more believable.

Please note that Rey being popular =/= Kylo not selling. Both Rey and Kylo items seemed to top bestseller lists, anyway.

This was news about a year ago to the point that JJ Abrams came out and said something in response. So it doesn't sound like the typical Internet comments section wishful thinking or beating up on one particular character over another.

Also the original blog post talks about the changes here in the States about advertising law in the 1980s, when Reagan was president and his administration was pretty de-regulation happy. That's the actual lede, so reading this at least as somebody who's of that nationality, it makes sense to me:

The toy industry is more gender-divided now than at any time in the past 50 years, according to Elizabeth Sweet, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Davis. She’s a noted authority in the sociology of gender-based toy design and marketing. Analyses of historical toy catalogs show that in the 1970s more than half of toys were not designated as being specifically for one gender, whereas now, very few toys are marketed as gender-neutral, according to Sweet.

Marcotte points back to the deregulation of the advertising industry in the 1980s under Pres. Ronald Reagan as the origination point for the gender-division trend. “Once that happened, toy manufacturers realized they could increase sales by designing toys to be more narrowly targeted. Instead of having just a ball, you could make it pink and put a princess on it; or, paint it blue and put GI Joe on it. Now parents have to buy two sets of toys, one for their daughter and one for their son.”

But that long-term trend has had significant sociological impacts. “Girls and boys do not play together as much as they used to,” Marcotte said. “These gender divisions are hard-coded into their toys and it informs their behavior in ways that has lasting results on their presumptions.”

I don't think that they're saying that the products for that character aren't selling, because they're not. I had a trio of tiny Kylos come trick or treating to my house for Halloween. Poor tiny Kylos were confused when I asked them if they'd come looking for the map. He's very popular. It's just that those specific set of laws were gutted here over 30 years. So toy manufacturers were free to start selling based on what they thought would turn the biggest profit. And also started really pushing the segmented product lines by gender for girls (hence the rise of pink and princess culture) versus boys. It's really more about putting what happened with the manufacturers having a 30 year precedent to do whatever they wanted because there were no legal requirements and getting a hard lesson that times have changed. Both in terms of the movies/characters and what society wants. And in this specific case, it's looking here at the US.  Also the person being quoted as having spoken with Disney is a university professor, at a respected university very close to where I live. So she's not some random person making up a bunch of nonsense to suit a straw man argument.

Anyways, I'm sure some people who dislike the character for whatever reason are perfectly happen to use this anecdote as a reason to beat up on him and as a way to elevate Rey. But it's kind of a weird area of how Star Wars has become a global phenomena and sometimes things get lost in translation. Because what's really discussed in that article has to do with the impact of government deregulation and industry trends in one specific country. Especially when it impacts on which gender is privileged for the R word (representation) and access to products/resources. In short, it's as much about gender as it is about economics and legal regulations.





@snufkin

Just to clarify - it wasn't the professor who claimed to have spoken with Disney, but this guy:
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/feminist-man-know-john-marcotte-founder-heroic-girls/

Not that I'd like to call anyone a liar, professor or no professor. But I'm just questioning who exactly these "Disney people" are and what motive could they possibly have to tell their own character - and big investment - isn't selling. And this was very early in 2016, too.

The quote:


“I’ve spoken with Disney people, and they were completely blindsided by the reaction to the new Star Wars characters,” Marcotte went on to say. “They put a huge investment into marketing and merchandizing the Kylo Ren character. They presumed he would be the big breakout role from the film. They were completely surprised when it was Rey everyone identified with and wanted to see more of. Now they’re stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving, and a tidal wave of complaints about a lack of Rey items.”
@Darth Dingbat

this is so bullsith lol! lol! lol!
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 3:34 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:In truth, nobody knows the real sales figures for anything. There's absolutely no proof (except Kylo haters' word) that Kylo didn't sell - and nobody knows whether Rey outsold Kylo, either. There were a lot more different products in different categories for Kylo, so the comparison would be difficult to begin with. The only thing that is a fact is that there was a big demand for Rey merchandise, which they should have been prepared for but apparently weren't.

The source for that article was some blog called Sweatpants and Coffee, whose source in turn was Heroic Girls, a non-profit promoting positive role models for girls. This non-profit's founder claims to have spoken with "Disney people", who told him that they're "stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving". This is the only source for this claim. What is the likelihood of Disney's official representatives telling some random non-profit that their products aren't selling? Come on. He should have at least referenced an anonymous source at Hasbro or something, to sound more believable.

Please note that Rey being popular =/= Kylo not selling. Both Rey and Kylo items seemed to top bestseller lists, anyway.

This was news about a year ago to the point that JJ Abrams came out and said something in response. So it doesn't sound like the typical Internet comments section wishful thinking or beating up on one particular character over another.

Also the original blog post talks about the changes here in the States about advertising law in the 1980s, when Reagan was president and his administration was pretty de-regulation happy. That's the actual lede, so reading this at least as somebody who's of that nationality, it makes sense to me:

The toy industry is more gender-divided now than at any time in the past 50 years, according to Elizabeth Sweet, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Davis. She’s a noted authority in the sociology of gender-based toy design and marketing. Analyses of historical toy catalogs show that in the 1970s more than half of toys were not designated as being specifically for one gender, whereas now, very few toys are marketed as gender-neutral, according to Sweet.

Marcotte points back to the deregulation of the advertising industry in the 1980s under Pres. Ronald Reagan as the origination point for the gender-division trend. “Once that happened, toy manufacturers realized they could increase sales by designing toys to be more narrowly targeted. Instead of having just a ball, you could make it pink and put a princess on it; or, paint it blue and put GI Joe on it. Now parents have to buy two sets of toys, one for their daughter and one for their son.”

But that long-term trend has had significant sociological impacts. “Girls and boys do not play together as much as they used to,” Marcotte said. “These gender divisions are hard-coded into their toys and it informs their behavior in ways that has lasting results on their presumptions.”

I don't think that they're saying that the products for that character aren't selling, because they're not. I had a trio of tiny Kylos come trick or treating to my house for Halloween. Poor tiny Kylos were confused when I asked them if they'd come looking for the map. He's very popular. It's just that those specific set of laws were gutted here over 30 years. So toy manufacturers were free to start selling based on what they thought would turn the biggest profit. And also started really pushing the segmented product lines by gender for girls (hence the rise of pink and princess culture) versus boys. It's really more about putting what happened with the manufacturers having a 30 year precedent to do whatever they wanted because there were no legal requirements and getting a hard lesson that times have changed. Both in terms of the movies/characters and what society wants. And in this specific case, it's looking here at the US.  Also the person being quoted as having spoken with Disney is a university professor, at a respected university very close to where I live. So she's not some random person making up a bunch of nonsense to suit a straw man argument.

Anyways, I'm sure some people who dislike the character for whatever reason are perfectly happen to use this anecdote as a reason to beat up on him and as a way to elevate Rey. But it's kind of a weird area of how Star Wars has become a global phenomena and sometimes things get lost in translation. Because what's really discussed in that article has to do with the impact of government deregulation and industry trends in one specific country. Especially when it impacts on which gender is privileged for the R word (representation) and access to products/resources. In short, it's as much about gender as it is about economics and legal regulations.





@snufkin

Just to clarify - it wasn't the professor who claimed to have spoken with Disney, but this guy:
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/feminist-man-know-john-marcotte-founder-heroic-girls/

Not that I'd like to call anyone a liar, professor or no professor. But I'm just questioning who exactly these "Disney people" are and what motive could they possibly have to tell their own character - and big investment - isn't selling. And this was very early in 2016, too.

The quote:


“I’ve spoken with Disney people, and they were completely blindsided by the reaction to the new Star Wars characters,” Marcotte went on to say. “They put a huge investment into marketing and merchandizing the Kylo Ren character. They presumed he would be the big breakout role from the film. They were completely surprised when it was Rey everyone identified with and wanted to see more of. Now they’re stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving, and a tidal wave of complaints about a lack of Rey items.”
@Darth Dingbat

Sure. Disney would put more faith in villain, sinister looking Kylo Ren who was about to murder the most popular character Han Solo, injured Finn and hunting Rey, and not Rey who is good looking, tomboy, funny, intelligent and actually hero. She's a likeable character from the get go, but road to liking Kylo might be for some different. Of course some people love Kylo as he is. If they're gonna put faith in some character, it would be Rey who is the main hero from the new generation.
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Post by Xylo Ren on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 3:37 pm

@BenRey wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:Oh, I see.  Is it true that his toys weren't selling?  Or is that just something that someone made up?
@Kyla Ren

http://uproxx.com/hitfix/why-on-earth-did-star-wars-insiders-think-kids-would-relate-to-kylo-ren-over-rey/

This is fake news, people. Nothing official has come out about Kylo or Rey sales. @Darth Dingbat said this pretty clearly in her research of the author and site.

Looks like Rey, Finn, and Poe are featured on the new merch anyway. It's not because Kylo was unpopular (hello, AD won best villain in Teen Choice Awards, ya know, voted on by the age group that actually BUYS action figures/merch), but because they're hiding him and his new look.

The trailer is proof of that. He's not in it at all. We're not getting a good look at Kylo for a long time, maybe even until the movie itself. I wouldn't be surprised if they put his action figure in a later wave so it won't spoil his new look.

And LF is not going to change the storyline when Kylo is the storyline. He's the catalyst, the meteor flying towards earth. He drives the story. There's no way they're cutting his screen time, just...lol Laughing
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 3:39 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:In truth, nobody knows the real sales figures for anything. There's absolutely no proof (except Kylo haters' word) that Kylo didn't sell - and nobody knows whether Rey outsold Kylo, either. There were a lot more different products in different categories for Kylo, so the comparison would be difficult to begin with. The only thing that is a fact is that there was a big demand for Rey merchandise, which they should have been prepared for but apparently weren't.

The source for that article was some blog called Sweatpants and Coffee, whose source in turn was Heroic Girls, a non-profit promoting positive role models for girls. This non-profit's founder claims to have spoken with "Disney people", who told him that they're "stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving". This is the only source for this claim. What is the likelihood of Disney's official representatives telling some random non-profit that their products aren't selling? Come on. He should have at least referenced an anonymous source at Hasbro or something, to sound more believable.

Please note that Rey being popular =/= Kylo not selling. Both Rey and Kylo items seemed to top bestseller lists, anyway.

This was news about a year ago to the point that JJ Abrams came out and said something in response. So it doesn't sound like the typical Internet comments section wishful thinking or beating up on one particular character over another.

Also the original blog post talks about the changes here in the States about advertising law in the 1980s, when Reagan was president and his administration was pretty de-regulation happy. That's the actual lede, so reading this at least as somebody who's of that nationality, it makes sense to me:

The toy industry is more gender-divided now than at any time in the past 50 years, according to Elizabeth Sweet, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Davis. She’s a noted authority in the sociology of gender-based toy design and marketing. Analyses of historical toy catalogs show that in the 1970s more than half of toys were not designated as being specifically for one gender, whereas now, very few toys are marketed as gender-neutral, according to Sweet.

Marcotte points back to the deregulation of the advertising industry in the 1980s under Pres. Ronald Reagan as the origination point for the gender-division trend. “Once that happened, toy manufacturers realized they could increase sales by designing toys to be more narrowly targeted. Instead of having just a ball, you could make it pink and put a princess on it; or, paint it blue and put GI Joe on it. Now parents have to buy two sets of toys, one for their daughter and one for their son.”

But that long-term trend has had significant sociological impacts. “Girls and boys do not play together as much as they used to,” Marcotte said. “These gender divisions are hard-coded into their toys and it informs their behavior in ways that has lasting results on their presumptions.”

I don't think that they're saying that the products for that character aren't selling, because they're not. I had a trio of tiny Kylos come trick or treating to my house for Halloween. Poor tiny Kylos were confused when I asked them if they'd come looking for the map. He's very popular. It's just that those specific set of laws were gutted here over 30 years. So toy manufacturers were free to start selling based on what they thought would turn the biggest profit. And also started really pushing the segmented product lines by gender for girls (hence the rise of pink and princess culture) versus boys. It's really more about putting what happened with the manufacturers having a 30 year precedent to do whatever they wanted because there were no legal requirements and getting a hard lesson that times have changed. Both in terms of the movies/characters and what society wants. And in this specific case, it's looking here at the US.  Also the person being quoted as having spoken with Disney is a university professor, at a respected university very close to where I live. So she's not some random person making up a bunch of nonsense to suit a straw man argument.

Anyways, I'm sure some people who dislike the character for whatever reason are perfectly happen to use this anecdote as a reason to beat up on him and as a way to elevate Rey. But it's kind of a weird area of how Star Wars has become a global phenomena and sometimes things get lost in translation. Because what's really discussed in that article has to do with the impact of government deregulation and industry trends in one specific country. Especially when it impacts on which gender is privileged for the R word (representation) and access to products/resources. In short, it's as much about gender as it is about economics and legal regulations.





@snufkin

Just to clarify - it wasn't the professor who claimed to have spoken with Disney, but this guy:
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/feminist-man-know-john-marcotte-founder-heroic-girls/

Not that I'd like to call anyone a liar, professor or no professor. But I'm just questioning who exactly these "Disney people" are and what motive could they possibly have to tell their own character - and big investment - isn't selling. And this was very early in 2016, too.

The quote:


“I’ve spoken with Disney people, and they were completely blindsided by the reaction to the new Star Wars characters,” Marcotte went on to say. “They put a huge investment into marketing and merchandizing the Kylo Ren character. They presumed he would be the big breakout role from the film. They were completely surprised when it was Rey everyone identified with and wanted to see more of. Now they’re stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving, and a tidal wave of complaints about a lack of Rey items.”
@Darth Dingbat

Sure. Disney would put more faith in villain, sinister looking Kylo Ren who was about to murder the most popular character Han Solo, injured Finn and hunting Rey, and not Rey who is good looking, tomboy, funny, intelligent and actually hero. She's a likeable character from the get go, but road to liking Kylo might be for some different. Of course some people love Kylo as he is. If they're gonna put faith in some character, it would be Rey who is the main hero from the new generation.
@DarthRen

Well, I'm not really talking about whether people should like or dislike Kylo, and whether Disney should have had more faith in Rey (yes, they absolutely should have).

I just find it hard to believe that any official representative of the company would basically say, "Well, we invested shedloads of money on Kylo lunchboxes, Kylo torches, Kylo watches and Kylo toothbrushes. But we were totally wrong and we're haemorrhaging our investments now! Sorry for the failure, everyone!"

And this after the film had been out just a couple of months.
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Post by IoJovi on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 3:40 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:
@BenRey wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:Oh, I see.  Is it true that his toys weren't selling?  Or is that just something that someone made up?
@Kyla Ren

http://uproxx.com/hitfix/why-on-earth-did-star-wars-insiders-think-kids-would-relate-to-kylo-ren-over-rey/

This is fake news, people. Nothing official has come out about Kylo or Rey sales. @Darth Dingbat said this pretty clearly in her research of the author and site.

Looks like Rey, Finn, and Poe are featured on the new merch anyway. It's not because Kylo was unpopular (hello, AD won best villain in Teen Choice Awards, ya know, voted on by the age group that actually BUYS action figures/merch), but because they're hiding him and his new look.

The trailer is proof of that. He's not in it at all. We're not getting a good look at Kylo for a long time, maybe even until the movie itself. I wouldn't be surprised if they put his action figure in a later wave so it won't spoil his new look.

And LF is not going to change the storyline when Kylo is the storyline. He's the catalyst, the meteor flying towards earth. He drives the story. There's no way they're cutting his screen time, just...lol Laughing
@Xylo Ren

Funny, I just posted a pic of what I happened across at Target in the Kylo and Rey collectibles thread before even reading this.

http://reylo.skyforum.net/t150p300-rey-kylo-ren-collectibles-action-figures-and-other-fun-stuff

And here I was, bracing myself for marketing of EEVVVUULLL Kylo... I do think it's funny that he and Rey appear to be scowling at each other. Nothing screams I'm going to kill you though. He probably forgot to put the dishes in the dishwasher and Rey is mad.
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Post by Saracene on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 4:57 pm

If a character's popularity was about "relatability", Darth Vader must be the most relatable OT character lol.

Which one of us didn't feel like choking an incompetent underling at work from time to time? Wink
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Post by AceofWands on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 5:02 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:In truth, nobody knows the real sales figures for anything. There's absolutely no proof (except Kylo haters' word) that Kylo didn't sell - and nobody knows whether Rey outsold Kylo, either. There were a lot more different products in different categories for Kylo, so the comparison would be difficult to begin with. The only thing that is a fact is that there was a big demand for Rey merchandise, which they should have been prepared for but apparently weren't.

The source for that article was some blog called Sweatpants and Coffee, whose source in turn was Heroic Girls, a non-profit promoting positive role models for girls. This non-profit's founder claims to have spoken with "Disney people", who told him that they're "stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving". This is the only source for this claim. What is the likelihood of Disney's official representatives telling some random non-profit that their products aren't selling? Come on. He should have at least referenced an anonymous source at Hasbro or something, to sound more believable.

Please note that Rey being popular =/= Kylo not selling. Both Rey and Kylo items seemed to top bestseller lists, anyway.

This was news about a year ago to the point that JJ Abrams came out and said something in response. So it doesn't sound like the typical Internet comments section wishful thinking or beating up on one particular character over another.

Also the original blog post talks about the changes here in the States about advertising law in the 1980s, when Reagan was president and his administration was pretty de-regulation happy. That's the actual lede, so reading this at least as somebody who's of that nationality, it makes sense to me:

The toy industry is more gender-divided now than at any time in the past 50 years, according to Elizabeth Sweet, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Davis. She’s a noted authority in the sociology of gender-based toy design and marketing. Analyses of historical toy catalogs show that in the 1970s more than half of toys were not designated as being specifically for one gender, whereas now, very few toys are marketed as gender-neutral, according to Sweet.

Marcotte points back to the deregulation of the advertising industry in the 1980s under Pres. Ronald Reagan as the origination point for the gender-division trend. “Once that happened, toy manufacturers realized they could increase sales by designing toys to be more narrowly targeted. Instead of having just a ball, you could make it pink and put a princess on it; or, paint it blue and put GI Joe on it. Now parents have to buy two sets of toys, one for their daughter and one for their son.”

But that long-term trend has had significant sociological impacts. “Girls and boys do not play together as much as they used to,” Marcotte said. “These gender divisions are hard-coded into their toys and it informs their behavior in ways that has lasting results on their presumptions.”

I don't think that they're saying that the products for that character aren't selling, because they're not. I had a trio of tiny Kylos come trick or treating to my house for Halloween. Poor tiny Kylos were confused when I asked them if they'd come looking for the map. He's very popular. It's just that those specific set of laws were gutted here over 30 years. So toy manufacturers were free to start selling based on what they thought would turn the biggest profit. And also started really pushing the segmented product lines by gender for girls (hence the rise of pink and princess culture) versus boys. It's really more about putting what happened with the manufacturers having a 30 year precedent to do whatever they wanted because there were no legal requirements and getting a hard lesson that times have changed. Both in terms of the movies/characters and what society wants. And in this specific case, it's looking here at the US.  Also the person being quoted as having spoken with Disney is a university professor, at a respected university very close to where I live. So she's not some random person making up a bunch of nonsense to suit a straw man argument.

Anyways, I'm sure some people who dislike the character for whatever reason are perfectly happen to use this anecdote as a reason to beat up on him and as a way to elevate Rey. But it's kind of a weird area of how Star Wars has become a global phenomena and sometimes things get lost in translation. Because what's really discussed in that article has to do with the impact of government deregulation and industry trends in one specific country. Especially when it impacts on which gender is privileged for the R word (representation) and access to products/resources. In short, it's as much about gender as it is about economics and legal regulations.





@snufkin

Just to clarify - it wasn't the professor who claimed to have spoken with Disney, but this guy:
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/feminist-man-know-john-marcotte-founder-heroic-girls/

Not that I'd like to call anyone a liar, professor or no professor. But I'm just questioning who exactly these "Disney people" are and what motive could they possibly have to tell their own character - and big investment - isn't selling. And this was very early in 2016, too.

The quote:


“I’ve spoken with Disney people, and they were completely blindsided by the reaction to the new Star Wars characters,” Marcotte went on to say. “They put a huge investment into marketing and merchandizing the Kylo Ren character. They presumed he would be the big breakout role from the film. They were completely surprised when it was Rey everyone identified with and wanted to see more of. Now they’re stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving, and a tidal wave of complaints about a lack of Rey items.”
@Darth Dingbat

Sure. Disney would put more faith in villain, sinister looking Kylo Ren who was about to murder the most popular character Han Solo, injured Finn and hunting Rey, and not Rey who is good looking, tomboy, funny, intelligent and actually hero. She's a likeable character from the get go, but road to liking Kylo might be for some different. Of course some people love Kylo as he is. If they're gonna put faith in some character, it would be Rey who is the main hero from the new generation.
@DarthRen

Well, I'm not really talking about whether people should like or dislike Kylo, and whether Disney should have had more faith in Rey (yes, they absolutely should have).

I just find it hard to believe that any official representative of the company would basically say, "Well, we invested shedloads of money on Kylo lunchboxes, Kylo torches, Kylo watches and Kylo toothbrushes. But we were totally wrong and we're haemorrhaging our investments now! Sorry for the failure, everyone!"

And this after the film had been out just a couple of months.
@Darth Dingbat

As far as I know, and this story is really old, the issue is that Rey's toys were held back so as not to spoil the movie. (Cause nobody would ever guess that the desert dwelling hero would be the jedi). So that's what happened. Then there were a couple blog posts, as the one mentioned, claiming that the reaction for Rey was surprising, and that Kylo merch wasn't selling (which is not true) and some Kylo haters went along. I still see a lot of Kylo toys.

And yeah, of course Kylo outsells Rey because he's got the more interesting look, with the mask and all. Phasma could have sold well if the character had been more interesting, for example.

The only source for "Disney was shocked people prefered Rey" is that one article citing alleged "sources from Disney". I think it is not true. Again, yes, right after the movie there wasn't enough Rey merch because her toys had been held back.

Frankly, I think the whole red herring Finn with the Lightsaber and trying to pretend Rey would not be the Jedi was really silly. I don't know a single person who was surprised when Rey was revealed as the Jedi. Laughing
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 5:05 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:In truth, nobody knows the real sales figures for anything. There's absolutely no proof (except Kylo haters' word) that Kylo didn't sell - and nobody knows whether Rey outsold Kylo, either. There were a lot more different products in different categories for Kylo, so the comparison would be difficult to begin with. The only thing that is a fact is that there was a big demand for Rey merchandise, which they should have been prepared for but apparently weren't.

The source for that article was some blog called Sweatpants and Coffee, whose source in turn was Heroic Girls, a non-profit promoting positive role models for girls. This non-profit's founder claims to have spoken with "Disney people", who told him that they're "stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving". This is the only source for this claim. What is the likelihood of Disney's official representatives telling some random non-profit that their products aren't selling? Come on. He should have at least referenced an anonymous source at Hasbro or something, to sound more believable.

Please note that Rey being popular =/= Kylo not selling. Both Rey and Kylo items seemed to top bestseller lists, anyway.

This was news about a year ago to the point that JJ Abrams came out and said something in response. So it doesn't sound like the typical Internet comments section wishful thinking or beating up on one particular character over another.

Also the original blog post talks about the changes here in the States about advertising law in the 1980s, when Reagan was president and his administration was pretty de-regulation happy. That's the actual lede, so reading this at least as somebody who's of that nationality, it makes sense to me:

The toy industry is more gender-divided now than at any time in the past 50 years, according to Elizabeth Sweet, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Davis. She’s a noted authority in the sociology of gender-based toy design and marketing. Analyses of historical toy catalogs show that in the 1970s more than half of toys were not designated as being specifically for one gender, whereas now, very few toys are marketed as gender-neutral, according to Sweet.

Marcotte points back to the deregulation of the advertising industry in the 1980s under Pres. Ronald Reagan as the origination point for the gender-division trend. “Once that happened, toy manufacturers realized they could increase sales by designing toys to be more narrowly targeted. Instead of having just a ball, you could make it pink and put a princess on it; or, paint it blue and put GI Joe on it. Now parents have to buy two sets of toys, one for their daughter and one for their son.”

But that long-term trend has had significant sociological impacts. “Girls and boys do not play together as much as they used to,” Marcotte said. “These gender divisions are hard-coded into their toys and it informs their behavior in ways that has lasting results on their presumptions.”

I don't think that they're saying that the products for that character aren't selling, because they're not. I had a trio of tiny Kylos come trick or treating to my house for Halloween. Poor tiny Kylos were confused when I asked them if they'd come looking for the map. He's very popular. It's just that those specific set of laws were gutted here over 30 years. So toy manufacturers were free to start selling based on what they thought would turn the biggest profit. And also started really pushing the segmented product lines by gender for girls (hence the rise of pink and princess culture) versus boys. It's really more about putting what happened with the manufacturers having a 30 year precedent to do whatever they wanted because there were no legal requirements and getting a hard lesson that times have changed. Both in terms of the movies/characters and what society wants. And in this specific case, it's looking here at the US.  Also the person being quoted as having spoken with Disney is a university professor, at a respected university very close to where I live. So she's not some random person making up a bunch of nonsense to suit a straw man argument.

Anyways, I'm sure some people who dislike the character for whatever reason are perfectly happen to use this anecdote as a reason to beat up on him and as a way to elevate Rey. But it's kind of a weird area of how Star Wars has become a global phenomena and sometimes things get lost in translation. Because what's really discussed in that article has to do with the impact of government deregulation and industry trends in one specific country. Especially when it impacts on which gender is privileged for the R word (representation) and access to products/resources. In short, it's as much about gender as it is about economics and legal regulations.





@snufkin

Just to clarify - it wasn't the professor who claimed to have spoken with Disney, but this guy:
http://www.womenyoushouldknow.net/feminist-man-know-john-marcotte-founder-heroic-girls/

Not that I'd like to call anyone a liar, professor or no professor. But I'm just questioning who exactly these "Disney people" are and what motive could they possibly have to tell their own character - and big investment - isn't selling. And this was very early in 2016, too.

The quote:


“I’ve spoken with Disney people, and they were completely blindsided by the reaction to the new Star Wars characters,” Marcotte went on to say. “They put a huge investment into marketing and merchandizing the Kylo Ren character. They presumed he would be the big breakout role from the film. They were completely surprised when it was Rey everyone identified with and wanted to see more of. Now they’re stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving, and a tidal wave of complaints about a lack of Rey items.”
@Darth Dingbat

Sure. Disney would put more faith in villain, sinister looking Kylo Ren who was about to murder the most popular character Han Solo, injured Finn and hunting Rey, and not Rey who is good looking, tomboy, funny, intelligent and actually hero. She's a likeable character from the get go, but road to liking Kylo might be for some different. Of course some people love Kylo as he is. If they're gonna put faith in some character, it would be Rey who is the main hero from the new generation.
@DarthRen

Well, I'm not really talking about whether people should like or dislike Kylo, and whether Disney should have had more faith in Rey (yes, they absolutely should have).

I just find it hard to believe that any official representative of the company would basically say, "Well, we invested shedloads of money on Kylo lunchboxes, Kylo torches, Kylo watches and Kylo toothbrushes. But we were totally wrong and we're haemorrhaging our investments now! Sorry for the failure, everyone!"

And this after the film had been out just a couple of months.
@Darth Dingbat

It was more of statement on these rumours we're talking about how Disney would put faith in villain and someone who they know will do something bad to one of the most popular character in SW franchise that will make some people not buying his toys and merchendise. Comparing that to Rey. Not really direct shoot at you but you've just mentioned.
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Post by AceofWands on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 5:19 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
It was more of statement on these rumours we're talking about how Disney would put faith in villain and someone who they know will do something bad to one of the most popular character in SW franchise that will make some people not buying his toys and merchendise. Comparing that to Rey. Not really direct shoot at you but you've just mentioned.
@DarthRen

But of course they would put faith in the villain. Kylo (or rather his mask) is the face of the new trilogy. All toys have his face. And it makes sense because the merch used to have Darth Vader's face before. For the period of TCW, they used Yoda (which is a little boring) or Captain Rex. Captain Rex has a distinctive look. But selling toys is not about who is the nicest character.
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