Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by ReyofLightSide on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 5:25 pm

Maybe Ben was blamed for the Jedi massacre and it wasn't him, and Han didn't defend him? Ugh, there is so many ways this could go.
All we know is-
Ben was sent to Luke
Snoke was interferring
Someone destroyed everything
Something happened with Han
Kylo was originally a Knight of Ren and then became their master.

@SoloSideCousin, I seem to remember the part of Han wanting to tell Leia something else as well.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by snufkin on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 5:38 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@ReyofLightSide wrote:Yes I can't imagine they would make Han look that bad.
Kylo says Ben was "weak and foolish" like his father- so in Kylo's eyes, Han either did something or DIDN'T do something
to make him feel that way. Maybe there was something Han didn't stop from happening.

I wondered if Han ignited the light saber himself. His hand is really close to the button when they both have their hands on it but it looks like Kylo's was closer. that would be quite a huge twist if Kylo hadn't been the one to do it.
@ReyofLightSide

If I had to guess, I'd say that Ben didn't want to get sent to Luke, and Han wasn't able to prevent it from happening.

I'm going from the hunch that Leia's line, "That's why I wanted him to train with Luke. I just never should have sent him away. That's when I lost him. That's when I lost you both."
@ISeeAnIsland

I've thought that discussion between Han and Leia meant that it ultimately came down to her decision to send Ben away and that Han, "too much Vader in him" , deferred to her. From the sound of things, there won't be any flashback Han in future installments (he seems too busy w/revisiting Rick Deckard and Indiana Jones). But likely Ben didn't want to go, Han didn't back him up or raise his voice when he knew how Ben felt. "That's when I lost you both." And perhaps whatever happened with his fall/destruction of Luke's academy, just solidified whatever kneejerk fear/reaction Han had to his son reminding him of his own bad experiences with the father-in-law from Hell. He seems pretty quick to wash his hands of the situation despite his obvious guilt/pain, until Leia (like always) has to push him in the right but hard direction.

Also in terms of throwing Han under the bus, if he sacrifices himself to ultimately save his child (a theme I expect we'll also see with Rey's parents), and the kid in turn ends up dead, quelle domage. For both Han and Leia. I wouldn't be surprised if he does something dangerous to sacrifice himself as repentance for his crimes and to protect Rey, such as going back to Snoke in full anticipation of a showdown. And that there'd be a cliffhanger where she ditches Luke et all to go after him.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by DarthRen on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 5:45 pm

About Knights of Ren. Are they Force sensitive, users or not like Kylo? Is Kylo their leader because he's the strongest with the Force or because he has connections to both Light and Dark side? Snoke seems to be really about Light and Dark in the person to mke the best possible toy for him. Really curious about them and their origins. JJ said it would be cool to see film about them.


Last edited by DarthRen on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by AceofWands on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 5:50 pm

@DarthRen wrote:About Knight of Ren. Are they Force sensitive or not force users? Is Kylo their leader becaise he's the strongest with the Force or because he has connections to both Light and Dark side? Really curious about them and their origins. JJ said it would be cool to see film about them.
@DarthRen

I was a little disappointed we didn't see them. They looked sooo cool. And then we got like less than the trailer. Mad

I would guess that they are not force sensitive. That would explain why Kylo is so special. That also makes sense seeing they don't use lightsabers. But who knows...

I for one would really like it if they were Luke's students. Cause you know, the idea of "killing" is ambiguous in SW.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by DarthRen on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 5:56 pm

@AceofWands wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:About Knight of Ren. Are they Force sensitive or not force users? Is Kylo their leader becaise he's the strongest with the Force or because he has connections to both Light and Dark side? Really curious about them and their origins. JJ said it would be cool to see film about them.
@DarthRen

I was a little disappointed we didn't see them. They looked sooo cool. And then we got like less than the trailer. Mad

I would guess that they are not force sensitive. That would explain why Kylo is so special. That also makes sense seeing they don't use lightsabers. But who knows...

I for one would really like it if they were Luke's students. Cause you know, the idea of "killing" is ambiguous in SW.
@AceofWands

I just hope they won't be killed like rumours said, by Luke. While I appreaciate Luke being bad*** and powerful but wanna see more of them.

The idea of Luke's acolytes being these members of Knight of Ren would be cool. Death and killing is sometimes very relative and especially if you haven't seen it like with Han. They're mysterious and so intriguing.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 6:04 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if the Knights of Ren originated as Acolytes of the Beyond. The AoB weren't exactly Force sensitive, but they were sent dark side dreams by a mysterious dark side entity (possibly Snoke).
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by Guest on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 6:31 pm

@DarthRen wrote:About Knights of Ren. Are they Force sensitive, users or not like Kylo? Is Kylo their leader because he's the strongest with the Force or because he has connections to both Light and Dark side? Snoke seems to be really about Light and Dark in the person to mke the best possible toy for him. Really curious about them and their origins. JJ said it would be cool to see film about them.
@DarthRen

This is just speculation, but I suspect the KOR were formerly known as the Acolytes of the Beyond who were mentioned in the Aftermath series. If that is true, then they're most likely not Force sensitive, but dark side fanatics who idolize Vader and collect relics connected to the Sith lord. On their Wookieepedia page, one Acolyte of the Beyond is quoted saying, "We are not violent. Not yet." Which could very well foreshadow their becoming the Knights of Ren, an extremely violent group.

I can see why Kylo would be their master, as he is a direct descendant of Darth Vader and the ultimate dark side relic in their eyes. I have no evidence but I am pretty confident that they, the relic collectors, are the ones who brought him Vader's melted helmet possibly as an offering or a gift. Kylo may very well have trained them in battle, as he is described as a 'fallen Jedi' by Pablo which indicates that he has completed his own training and can teach others. I hope we'll get to see their interactions with each other and with Kylo before the big fight sequence with Luke and Rey.

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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by snufkin on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 10:52 pm

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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by Lily Snape on Thu 12 Oct 2017, 12:46 am

@snufkin wrote:
@snufkin

Hey, you resurrected this thread!  Smile I'll check out the video tomorrow when I don't have the sound on mute due to snoozing husband.  But I had to say that the shot at the end of the trailer with Kylo extending his hand, THAT is for the ages.  I mean, theoretically it could be the moment he asks forgiveness of his mother, which would also be epic, but that's about the only other thing I can think of.  If it's Rey he's looking at, breathing deeply, his hand trembling slightly as he extends it, that will be one of those scenes.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by snufkin on Thu 12 Oct 2017, 9:36 pm

@Lily Snape - hope you enjoy it! I thought it was most appropriate to this topic because it's about how seeing that potential for the relationship wasn't about a cheap gimmick for the ST, but tying into larger overarching themes for the entire trilogy. He also discusses in detail how it ties in with the PT (not a surprise) and its themes.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by Starliteprism on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 7:28 am

In the interrogation scene in TFA in which Kylo Ren mind probes Rey, Rey was able to figure out to do the same to Kylo, throwing the doors open in his mind and seeing his fears and so forth. It is then insinuated/pretty apparent that Rey was able to download some of Kylo's skill sets/habits, e.g jedi mind trick to escape and also when practicing her lightsaber techniques on Ahch-to.

The question I like to pose...Do you believe Kylo Ren has also experienced a sort of download process with Rey's skill set/habits? If so, can you think of any examples of this?

Personally, I feel that maybe Kylo has possibly picked up some of Rey's impulsiveness. e.g  Kylo approaching Snoke in the beginning of TLJ and sizing up the guards/attack. Also, Snoke sensing Kylo's compassion for the girl in TFA.

Thoughts?
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by PalmettoBlue on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 2:45 pm

@Starliteprism I think it's very clear that he picked up some of her memories, eg her parents, right? And while he is certainly capable of picking up skills, I'm not sure we've actually seen that at work yet.

I mean - would they tell us if he now had the knowledge of how to bypass a compressor on a YT model Correllian freighter? I mean, where would it come up? Or maybe it will.

It's an interesting topic to be sure.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by fuhry on Tue 27 Nov 2018, 11:22 am

Well, I think it would take

1. A reminder that soldiers on opposite sides of a war can't really be prosecuted for murder
2. some sort of heartfelt description from Ben/Kylo of Snoke's web of influence inside Ben's mind, and how that moment played out.
3. Kylo saving Finn and Chewie
4. Rey and Kylo breaking away from the Resistance/ FO and joining forces on some third direction.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by Chris24601 on Tue 27 Nov 2018, 3:05 pm

@fuhry
My money would be on 3 and 4.

Comics have been getting away with “what measure is a mook” (no names like Luke’s students and Lor San Tekka) and “attempted murder doesn’t count” (Finn) for decades so number 1 and 2 aren’t really needed because the only thing storywise that matters in Ben’s redemption is Han’s murder. We already saw Han forgive him with his dying breath so all we really need is for Ben to show appropriate remorse and standing against the real villains in the third act.

#3 is one of those “Show Don’t Tell” elements though that are a great way to visually show Ben’s change of direction; saving the guy he once tried to kill and his father’s best friend... two people with every reason to hate him... is screenwriting 101. I would be STUNNED if Ben didn’t get the opportunity to save at least Finn and Chewie (the trifecta would be saving Poe as well... but Poe is the guy I think will be needed to cause conflict late in the game due to his mistrust of Ben’s redemption so I tend to doubt him getting saved; though being proven wrong by witnessing Ben save Finn and Chewie would be in line with the character I see Poe being presented as).

#4 I think is almost a prerequisite for a happy ending. Too much emphasis has put on the Solo aspect of his heritage for a redeemed Ben to not follow in his father’s footsteps and that means NOT ending up a Jedi or part of the New New Republic... it means being something of an outlaw and flying off in the Millennium Falcon with Rey (and hopefully Chewie and either BB-8 or Artoo/Threepio) at his side.

My thinking is that Ben would be at his most content if he ended up like season one Kanan from Rebels (only sub the Falcon for the Ghost, Rey for Hera, Chewie for Zeb and BB-8 for Chopper).

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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by Atenais on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 3:11 pm

@nemapasara wrote:(...) One of my favourite moment in Pride and Prejudice is when they're in the rain and Elizabeth rejects Mr. Darcy's marriage proposal because of the very fact that she doesn't make it easy for him at all. It's heart-wrenching in both the best and worst way but it makes the end so much more satisfying.
@nemapasara

We don't have this scene in the book. The original marriage proposal is much more intense and powerful because we don't have distraction things as rain or hard breathing, we have an epic clashing of equals.

@Darth Dingbat wrote:@vaderito: there's a reason why a large part of the audience would have wanted Fanny to end up with Henry Crawford instead Razz
@Darth Dingbat

Me included. But, really, they were my last fave couple in JA universe. Fanny is boring as hell.

@Darth_Awakened wrote:The thing that caught my eye and made me picking Reylo at my first viewing was Kylo demasking in front of Rey.

At very moment I saw it as a callback to a "Are you little too short for a Stormtrooper?" scene aka Luke (who already had a holochron crush) demasking in front of Leia in ANH.

The whole dialogue in the interrogation scene just confirmed for me the fact that young Solo is falling for a girl.

(I have to mention that I'am quite often blind to those things)
@Darth_Awakened

Same for me. I remember exactly my feelings at that moment, because I was with some friends, hardcore SW fans, and a friend of mine gasped behind me when we saw his face for the first time. I remember I thought, "Wow, he is good looking" and I knew it was what Rey would think in that moment. And why would they take the time to make Adam look good in that scene if that wasn't vital?

---

After reading the whole thread I'm curious why this topic is here at "Episode IX". It looks more like TFA related.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by PalmettoBlue on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 6:55 pm

@Atenais I'm pretty sure it's in IX because the idea was to maybe try to predict what could happen in IX to ensure that Reylo is for the ages.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 8:16 pm

Moderator - please move if mentioned elsewhere! Smile

The Reylo pieces won with the Star Wars Fan Awards!

Balance by Madison T. won Audience Choice and Best Digital Art

切り絵:白と黒の共闘 (Kirie: Black and White Joined in Battle) by Yukiko K. won Best Physical Art

Teehee that Reylo won both audience and the awards from the judges. Smile Very Happy Razz

https://www.starwars.com/news/meet-the-winners-of-the-star-wars-fan-awards-2018
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by Atenais Yesterday at 11:47 am

@PalmettoBlue wrote:@Atenais I'm pretty sure it's in IX because the idea was to maybe try to predict what could happen in IX to ensure that Reylo is for the ages.
@PalmettoBlue

I couldn't see the year of each post, but people talk mostly about TFA and from the first posts, it looks like TLJ wasn't even out. But it was just a comment.
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Re: Rey and Kylo -- for the ages: what would it take?

Post by Lily Snape Today at 2:11 am

@Atenais wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:@Atenais I'm pretty sure it's in IX because the idea was to maybe try to predict what could happen in IX to ensure that Reylo is for the ages.
@PalmettoBlue

I couldn't see the year of each post, but people talk mostly about TFA and from the first posts, it looks like TLJ wasn't even out. But it was just a comment.
@Atenais

Yep, you’re right— I started the thread in February 2017, so TFA has been out for over a year but TLJ was still in the future. Smile I think that the question still stands for Episode IX— they could make these two a pair that goes down in cinematic and storytelling history. Or they could have them become a romantic pairing but botch it somehow— make them bland, or remove Rey’s agency, or something like that. Here’s hoping it’s the former. Smile

Personally, I think there has to be an element of the forbidden, and an element of peril. Kylo has to clearly and obviously become who he was meant to be— for himself, not just for Rey, although clearly she is an inspiration and guide. I don’t want to have to wonder after the fact whether he’d fall back to the Dark Side if she left or died or otherwise was no longer with him— he needs to do it for himself. As the heroine, she should be the one making the first move on the romance front. Those are my thoughts, anyway. Smile
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