ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 14

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 22 Feb - 19:45

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:So I just saw Moana today and I really enjoyed it. 

The most important thing that stood out to me though, was the significance of Moana's mission of return the heart of Te Fiti and the story's antagonist Te Ka, the lava monster

Spoiler:
When it was revealed that Te Ka was actually the goddess Te Fiti, turned after Maui stole her heart (literally) At the very height of battle, Moana realizes that the monster she saw as the enemy to be defeated was actually the very goddess she wanted to save, and had that inspiring change of heart and called out to Te Ka to remember who she was, who she really is.

This reminded me so much about Ben and what Rey's could be to his story. Sometime in TLJ, Rey should realize that her nemesis Kylo Ren should actually be someone she needs to save. 

Disney has been exploring the themes of anti heroes and redeemable villains in the past few movies already. Elsa, Maleficent, Nick Wilde, Te Fiti, and to an extent ofc, Beast. All these redemptions happen by the heroine, and I think by now nothing can convince me against the redemption of Kylo Ren.
@Rei of Sunshine

Even Maui (Moana's sidekick) is a bit of an anti-hero. His actions (stealing the heart of Te Fiti) are what set off the whole story. And what was Maui's original motivation? To gain the approval of humans...because he had been born human and was abandoned by his parents. Hmmmm... Confus
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Post by Hasi on Wed 22 Feb - 19:47

Re: a Reylo kiss, initially my idea was of them hugging very tightly, in one of those "these two lonely pieces finally got together after pain and struggles and now they've found a home in each other" moment, but then I remembered that they've already shown Rey hugging and kissing Finn's forehead (even if they both were platonic gestures) so I think there will be something more romantic and intimate between her and Kylo, also to show the different nature of their feelings. Romance IS important in sw, despite what a lot of people say, so I believe that there will be at least one kiss between Rey and Kylo. If not, whatever happens I hope they spell out that the nature of their relationship is romantic so that no one can say "no it's up to interpretation, I don't think they're in love etc. etc.". But honestly at this point the next two movies could be 2 hours straight of Rey and Kylo making out and some part of the fandom would be like "No, they're not kissing, she's using her tongue so she's clearly trying to choke him!" or "See? She's clearly a Skywalker, she's kissing a member of her family just like her aunt/mother before!". In TLJ if they go on with the seduced/tempted thing I think there will be a lot of UST moments, hopefully with them standing veeeeery close to each other.
Just my gut feeling but I believe that Rey will be the one who initiates a change in their relationship, too.

Also another B&tb parallel: some days ago in one of the interviews to promote the movie Emma Watson said something like "I would like to interpret the Beast because him and Belle are two parts of the same whole; there's something so interesting about the darkness in Beast and how he kind of finds redemption, and also his level of angst..."...it definetely sounds familiar, I wonder why.
It also made me think of an old post I saw on tumblr:ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 14 - Page 4 Tumblr_oah1bl3sVA1rbn574o1_500
I see what you did there, Hallmark.


Last edited by Hasi on Wed 22 Feb - 20:06; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Wed 22 Feb - 20:06

@Hasi wrote:But honestly at this point the next two movies could be 2 hours straight of Rey and Kylo making out and some part of the fandom would be like "No, they're not kissing, she's using her tongue so she's clearly trying to choke him!" 
@Hasi

Jesus Christ Lord Almighty
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Thu 23 Feb - 0:04



I mean

C'MON
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Post by DarthRen on Thu 23 Feb - 2:05

@Maria Antonietta wrote:

I mean

C'MON
@Maria Antonietta

They're clearly cousins, how can you argue otherwise. I mean just look at how they look at each other. Typical way of cousins looking at each other. Cool
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Thu 23 Feb - 9:54

@DarthRen wrote:
@Maria Antonietta wrote:

I mean

C'MON
@Maria Antonietta

They're clearly cousins, how can you argue otherwise. I mean just look at how they look at each other. Typical way of cousins looking at each other. Cool
@DarthRen

The comments are hilarious Very Happy
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Post by guardienne on Thu 23 Feb - 9:58

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 14 - Page 4 16865021_1779154822404637_7318869957099524974_n
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Post by panki on Thu 23 Feb - 13:26

@guardienne

Its a pity we don't get enough of these relationships in SW.... an excellent example of this is the relationship between Sinjir and Jas in the Aftermath trilogy.... they almost connect from the moment they see one another, love one another in a non-romantic way and yet their adventures together are interesting.

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Post by guardienne on Thu 23 Feb - 20:46

@panki the dude looks like han!

i think ashitaka and san are equally good like that. i think that is why i love the story of princess mononoke so much because the romance is hinted at, you can project into their future and they are both incredibly pragmatic about it. it's really refreshing.
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Post by DarthRen on Thu 23 Feb - 21:24

@guardienne

What quote and so fitting for Kylo and Rey. cheers

For Kylo to redeem himself and show people good side, for Rey to finally find a home and belong somewhere. They can help each other achieve that and their abandonment issues in their lives sort of binds them together.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Fri 24 Feb - 5:48

@Hasi wrote:Re: a Reylo kiss, initially my idea was of them hugging very tightly, in one of those "these two lonely pieces finally got together after pain and struggles and now they've found a home in each other" moment, but then I remembered that they've already shown Rey hugging and kissing Finn's forehead (even if they both were platonic gestures) so I think there will be something more romantic and intimate between her and Kylo, also to show the different nature of their feelings. Romance IS important in sw, despite what a lot of people say, so I believe that there will be at least one kiss between Rey and Kylo. If not, whatever happens I hope they spell out that the nature of their relationship is romantic so that no one can say "no it's up to interpretation, I don't think they're in love etc. etc.". But honestly at this point the next two movies could be 2 hours straight of Rey and Kylo making out and some part of the fandom would be like "No, they're not kissing, she's using her tongue so she's clearly trying to choke him!" or "See? She's clearly a Skywalker, she's kissing a member of her family just like her aunt/mother before!". In TLJ if they go on with the seduced/tempted thing I think there will be a lot of UST moments, hopefully with them standing veeeeery close to each other.
Just my gut feeling but I believe that Rey will be the one who initiates a change in their relationship, too.

Also another B&tb parallel: some days ago in one of the interviews to promote the movie Emma Watson said something like "I would like to interpret the Beast because him and Belle are two parts of the same whole; there's something so interesting about the darkness in Beast and how he kind of finds redemption, and also his level of angst..."...it definetely sounds familiar, I wonder why.
It also made me think of an old post I saw on tumblr:ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 14 - Page 4 Tumblr_oah1bl3sVA1rbn574o1_500
I see what you did there, Hallmark.
@Hasi

Kylo is soooo scary they made an *Itty Bitty* out of him Laughing
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Post by Kessel on Fri 24 Feb - 7:36

@guardienne

What a great quote! Miyazaki's work has certainly shown the kind of relationships his quote describes. It's the kind of love/relationship we don't see often in movies... something really profound and awe-inspiring; the kind of connection between two characters that stays with you long after it's over. It's what Reylo can be, regardless of whether it ends in a romance or not.

Those Kylo and Rey itty-bittys are too cute. I have the two of them and they always make me smile. I hope they come out with a mask-less Kylo itty-bitty soon.

_________________
"The relationship between Kylo and Rey is awesome."
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Post by snufkin on Fri 24 Feb - 7:43

Kessel89 wrote:
@guardienne

What a great quote! Miyazaki's work has certainly shown the kind of relationships his quote describes. It's the kind of love/relationship we don't see often in movies... something really profound and awe-inspiring; the kind of connection between two characters that stays with you long after it's over. It's what Reylo can be, regardless of whether it ends in a romance or not.


@Kessel89

I agree. And I think it equally applies to her relationships with both male leads, regardless of whether it feels like one is meant to be plantonic/siblings and the other is at least for now antagonistic. And she is largely responsible for inspiring Finn to face his fears and fight against the things he had sought to flee from.

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Post by Kessel on Fri 24 Feb - 17:36

@snufkin wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:
@guardienne

What a great quote! Miyazaki's work has certainly shown the kind of relationships his quote describes. It's the kind of love/relationship we don't see often in movies... something really profound and awe-inspiring; the kind of connection between two characters that stays with you long after it's over. It's what Reylo can be, regardless of whether it ends in a romance or not.


@Kessel89

I agree. And I think it equally applies to her relationships with both male leads, regardless of whether it feels like one is meant to be plantonic/siblings and the other is at least for now antagonistic. And she is largely responsible for inspiring Finn to face his fears and fight against the things he had sought to flee from.

@snufkin

Yes, that is true as well. It will be interesting to see how those different dynamics play out since Rey will both influence and be influenced by Kylo and Finn.

I think that Finn and Rey helped each other face their issues, allowing them to find Andre meet their destinies, while Rey and Kylo share a unknown destiny and will challenge and influence each other.

I'm sure both will play vital parts in the story.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 24 Feb - 18:54

Kessel89 wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:
@guardienne

What a great quote! Miyazaki's work has certainly shown the kind of relationships his quote describes. It's the kind of love/relationship we don't see often in movies... something really profound and awe-inspiring; the kind of connection between two characters that stays with you long after it's over. It's what Reylo can be, regardless of whether it ends in a romance or not.


@Kessel89

I agree. And I think it equally applies to her relationships with both male leads, regardless of whether it feels like one is meant to be plantonic/siblings and the other is at least for now antagonistic. And she is largely responsible for inspiring Finn to face his fears and fight against the things he had sought to flee from.

@snufkin

Yes, that is true as well. It will be interesting to see how those different dynamics play out since Rey will both influence and be influenced by Kylo and Finn.

I think that Finn and Rey helped each other face their issues, allowing them to find Andre meet their destinies, while Rey and Kylo share a unknown destiny and will challenge and influence each other.

I'm sure both will play vital parts in the story.

@Kessel89

This is from the archives, but worth repeating on that point. I think what people get confused about is thinking that Rey and Finn will fall into that type of stereotypical blockbuster romance. When their relationship isn't meant to be that way, but as allies and friends. She will have a LI from the villain/antagonist. But both arcs subvert a lot of what people typically expect from a large franchise movie. Good example would be Pacific Rim. Or even R1, though there's obviously the potential at the end for the leads to have become romantic if things had worked out differently*

“Golden Retriever” Movies: Cooperation and Trust in Action

Sure, it’s only a few movies, but as I thought about it, I could see the comparisons: The “golden retriever” action movie trope is so called because of the main male characters’ cooperative, trusting, and loyal nature. This is a change-up from the regular lone hero — or the anti-hero, or the chosen one, or the subversive spy — because of the focus on trusting another person, with that trust leading to cooperation and then actual results. Because cooperation is tantamount, the male characters’ stories don’t overshadow or subsume space for female characters’ stories, which flourish in tandem with theirs.

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the golden retriever trope highlights the idea of cooperation, especially men cooperating with women — not to show off or to save them, but as the way they’ll succeed. Women aren’t important to the story because the male character is interested in them; women are important to the story because they are vital to the plot and the plan against the enemy. The characters don’t always immediately trust each other, but they do have to put their trust in each other within a short amount of time — and what’s rare about the male “golden retriever” characters is that they do this without questioning the female characters’ skills. Each relationship grows as a result of that initial trust when they go into action

The golden retriever trope speaks to people on a personal level because so often, we’re used to not getting that reaction, that which that should be so clear as to go unmentioned. And as we saw in Jess Zimmerman’s piece on emotional labor, and the Metafilter comment section, there are echoes of this lack of parity in real life. In fact, “women’s work” is often denuded as unnecessary, or so invisible that it’s said to be disposable.

But stories that focus on cooperation and show characters succeeding because they trust one another are still important, and can even be revolutionary. Taking down a patriarchal tyrant, breaking down a powerful government structure, destroying a global menace that’s been devastating the world for years — these stories are about changing the way of life as we know it so something new can grow. The characters are able to do that because of their faith in one another, a faith based not on precedence, but on the ability to see past ego to true worth, to acknowledge that they can’t do it alone. And they don’t have to.
[/url]

*personally not bothered by the Teen Vogue take because "you don't need to be in a relationship to be valued" is a message I wish somebody had told me as a teen. And the larger journalism they're doing in the current political environment is so critical, sniping over interpretation of a plot point in a movie is missing the forest for the trees.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 24 Feb - 20:38

Speaking of Beauty and the Beast kind of tales, there's one, which is my favourite. It's an Opera, composed by Giacomo Puccini: Turandot. It's an old Persian fairy tale and they are on reverse, she's the Beast and he's Beauty. It's a tale where love triumphs.

synopsis:
A Mandarin announces the law of the land (Aria – Popolo di Pechino! – "People of Peking!"). The Prince of Persia has failed to answer the three riddles, and he is to be beheaded at the next moonrising. As the crowd surges towards the gates of the palace, the imperial guards brutally repulse them, causing a blind old man to be knocked to the ground. The old man's slave-girl, Liù, cries out for help. A young man hears her cry and recognizes that the old man is his long-lost father, Timur, the deposed king of Tartary. The young Prince of Tartary is overjoyed at seeing Timur alive, but still urges Timur to not speak his name because he is afraid that the Chinese rulers, who have conquered Tartary, may kill or harm them. Timur then tells his son that, of all his servants, only Liù has remained faithful to him. When the Prince asks her why, she tells him that once, long ago in the palace, the Prince had smiled at her (Trio with chorus – The crowd, Liù, Prince of Tartary, Timur: Indietro, cani! – "Back, dogs!").

The moon rises, and the crowd's cries for blood dissolve into silence. The doomed Prince of Persia, who is on his way to be executed, is led before the crowd. The young Prince is so handsome and kind that the crowd and the Prince of Tartary decide that they want Turandot to act compassionately, and they beg Turandot to appear and spare his life (Aria – The crowd, Prince of Tartary: O giovinetto! – "O youth!"). She then appears, and with a single imperious gesture, orders the execution to continue. The Prince of Tartary, who has never seen Turandot before, falls immediately in love with her, and joyfully cries out Turandot's name three times. Then the Prince of Persia cries out one final time. The crowd, horrified, then screams out one final time. The Prince of Persia is then beheaded.

The Prince of Tartary is dazzled by Turandot's beauty. He is about to rush towards the gong and to strike it three times – the symbolic gesture of whoever wishes to attempt to solve the riddles so that he can marry Turandot – when the ministers Ping, Pang, and Pong appear. They urge him cynically to not lose his head for Turandot and to instead go back to his own country (Fermo, che fai?). Timur urges his son to desist, and Liù, who is secretly in love with the Prince, pleads with him not to attempt to solve the riddles (Signore, ascolta! – "Lord, hear!"). Liù's words touch the Prince's heart. He begs Liù to make Timur's exile more bearable by not abandoning Timur if the Prince fails to answer the riddles (Non piangere, Liù – "Do not cry, Liù"). The three ministers, Timur, and Liù then try one last time to stop the Prince (Ah! Per l'ultima volta! – "Ah! For the last time!") from attempting to answer the riddles, but he refuses to heed their advice.

He calls Turandot's name three times, and each time Liù, Timur, and the ministers reply, "Death!" and the crowd declares, "We're already digging your grave!" Rushing to the gong that hangs in front of the palace, the Prince strikes it three times, declaring himself to be a suitor. From the palace balcony, Turandot accepts his challenge, as Ping, Pang, and Pong laugh at the Prince's foolishness.

Ping, Pang, and Pong lament their place as ministers, poring over palace documents and presiding over endless rituals. They prepare themselves for either a wedding or a funeral (Trio – Ping, Pang, Pong: Ola, Pang!). Ping suddenly longs for his country house in Honan, with its small lake surrounded by bamboo. Pong remembers his grove of forests near Tsiang, and Pang recalls his gardens near Kiu. The three share their fond memories of their lives away from the palace (Trio – Ping, Pang, Pong: Ho una casa nell'Honan – "I have a house in Honan"). They turn their thoughts back to how they have been accompanying young princes to their deaths. As the palace trumpet sounds, the ministers ready themselves for another spectacle as they await the entrance of their Emperor.

Scene 2: The courtyard of the palace. Sunrise

The Emperor Altoum, father of Turandot, sits on his grand throne in his palace. Weary of having to judge his isolated daughter's sport, he urges the Prince to withdraw his challenge, but the Prince refuses (Aria – Altoum, the Prince: Un giuramento atroce – "An atrocious oath"). Turandot enters and explains (In questa reggia – "In this palace") that her ancestress of millennia past, Princess Lo-u-Ling, reigned over her kingdom "in silence and joy, resisting the harsh domination of men" until she was ravished and murdered by an invading foreign prince. Turandot claims that Lo-u-Ling now lives in her, and out of revenge, Turandot has sworn to never let any man wed her. She warns the Prince to withdraw but again he refuses. The Princess presents her first riddle: Straniero, ascolta! – "What is born each night and dies each dawn?" The Prince correctly replies, Speranza – "Hope." The Princess, unnerved, presents her second riddle (Guizza al pari di fiamma – "What flickers red and warm like a flame, but is not fire?") The Prince thinks for a moment before replying, Sangue – "Blood". Turandot is shaken. The crowd cheers the Prince, provoking Turandot's anger. She presents her third riddle (Gelo che ti da foco – "What is ice which gives you fire and which your fire freezes still more?"). As the prince thinks, Turandot taunts him, "What is the ice that makes you burn?" The taunt makes him see the answer and he proclaims, "It is Turandot! Turandot!"

The crowd cheers for the triumphant Prince. Turandot throws herself at her father's feet and pleads with him not to leave her to the Prince's mercy. The Emperor insists that an oath is sacred and that it is Turandot's duty to wed the Prince (Duet – Turandot, Altoum, the Prince: Figlio del cielo). She cries out in despair, "Will you take me by force? (Mi porterai con la forza?) The Prince stops her, saying that he has a riddle for her: Tre enigmi m'hai proposto – "You do not know my name. Tell me my name before sunrise, and at dawn, I will die." Turandot accepts. The Emperor then declares that he hopes that he will be able to call the Prince his son when the sun next rises.

In the distance, heralds call out Turandot's command: Cosi comanda Turandot – "This night, none shall sleep in Peking! The penalty for all will be death if the Prince's name is not discovered by morning". The Prince waits for dawn and anticipates his victory: Nessun dorma – "Nobody shall sleep!"

Ping, Pong, and Pang appear and offer the Prince women and riches if he will only give up Turandot (Tu che guardi le stelle), but he refuses. A group of soldiers then drag in Timur and Liù. They have been seen speaking to the Prince, so they must know his name. Turandot enters and orders Timur and Liù to speak. The Prince feigns ignorance, saying they know nothing. But when the guards begin to treat Timur harshly, Liù declares that she alone knows the Prince's name, but she will not reveal it. Ping demands the Prince's name, and when Liù refuses to say it, she is tortured. Turandot is clearly taken aback by Liù's resolve and asks Liù who or what gave her such a strong resolve. Liù answers, "Princess, love!" (Principessa, amore!). Turandot demands that Ping tear the Prince's name from Liù, and Ping orders Liù to be tortured even more. Liù counters Turandot (Tu che di gel sei cinta – "You who are begirdled by ice"), saying that Turandot too will learn the exquisite joy of being guided by caring and compassionate love.[note 1] Having spoken, Liù seizes a dagger from a soldier's belt and stabs herself. As she staggers towards the Prince and falls dead, the crowd screams for her to speak the Prince's name. Since Timur is blind, he must be told about Liù's death, and he cries out in anguish. When Timur warns that the gods will be offended by Liù's death, the crowd becomes subdued, very afraid and ashamed. The grieving Timur and the crowd follow Liù's body as it is carried away. Everybody departs, leaving the Prince and Turandot. He reproaches Turandot for her cruelty (Duet – The Prince, Turandot: Principessa di morte – "Princess of death"), then takes her in his arms and kisses her in spite of her resistance.[note 2]

The Prince tries to convince Turandot to love him. At first she feels disgusted, but after he kisses her, she feels herself becoming more ardently desiring to be held and compassionately loved by him. She admits that ever since she met the Prince, she realized she both hated and loved him. She asks him to ask for nothing more and to leave, taking his mystery with him. The Prince, however, then reveals his name: "Calaf, son of Timur – Calaf, figlio di Timur", thereby placing his life in Turandot's hands. She can now destroy him if she wants (Duet – Turandot, Calaf: Del primo pianto).

Scene 2: The courtyard of the palace. Dawn

Turandot and Calaf approach the Emperor's throne. She declares that she knows the Prince's name: Diecimila anni al nostro Imperatore! – "It is ... love!" The crowd cheers and acclaims the two lovers (O sole! Vita! Eternità).


The unconditional love of the Prince saves the Princess from her thirst for blood. One thing that strikes me is the no one knows his name, he's undercover, he tells his name only to her, after a passionate kiss. Ben's name is, for now, unknown, too. OMG can you imagine if she asks his name while kissing her I MIGHT DIE
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Post by panki on Fri 24 Feb - 21:05

@Maria Antonietta wrote:Speaking of Beauty and the Beast kind of tales, there's one, which is my favourite. It's an Opera, composed by Giacomo Puccini: Turandot. It's an old Persian fairy tale and they are on reverse, she's the Beast and he's Beauty. It's a tale where love triumphs.

synopsis:
A Mandarin announces the law of the land (Aria – Popolo di Pechino! – "People of Peking!"). The Prince of Persia has failed to answer the three riddles, and he is to be beheaded at the next moonrising. As the crowd surges towards the gates of the palace, the imperial guards brutally repulse them, causing a blind old man to be knocked to the ground. The old man's slave-girl, Liù, cries out for help. A young man hears her cry and recognizes that the old man is his long-lost father, Timur, the deposed king of Tartary. The young Prince of Tartary is overjoyed at seeing Timur alive, but still urges Timur to not speak his name because he is afraid that the Chinese rulers, who have conquered Tartary, may kill or harm them. Timur then tells his son that, of all his servants, only Liù has remained faithful to him. When the Prince asks her why, she tells him that once, long ago in the palace, the Prince had smiled at her (Trio with chorus – The crowd, Liù, Prince of Tartary, Timur: Indietro, cani! – "Back, dogs!").

The moon rises, and the crowd's cries for blood dissolve into silence. The doomed Prince of Persia, who is on his way to be executed, is led before the crowd. The young Prince is so handsome and kind that the crowd and the Prince of Tartary decide that they want Turandot to act compassionately, and they beg Turandot to appear and spare his life (Aria – The crowd, Prince of Tartary: O giovinetto! – "O youth!"). She then appears, and with a single imperious gesture, orders the execution to continue. The Prince of Tartary, who has never seen Turandot before, falls immediately in love with her, and joyfully cries out Turandot's name three times. Then the Prince of Persia cries out one final time. The crowd, horrified, then screams out one final time. The Prince of Persia is then beheaded.

The Prince of Tartary is dazzled by Turandot's beauty. He is about to rush towards the gong and to strike it three times – the symbolic gesture of whoever wishes to attempt to solve the riddles so that he can marry Turandot – when the ministers Ping, Pang, and Pong appear. They urge him cynically to not lose his head for Turandot and to instead go back to his own country (Fermo, che fai?). Timur urges his son to desist, and Liù, who is secretly in love with the Prince, pleads with him not to attempt to solve the riddles (Signore, ascolta! – "Lord, hear!"). Liù's words touch the Prince's heart. He begs Liù to make Timur's exile more bearable by not abandoning Timur if the Prince fails to answer the riddles (Non piangere, Liù – "Do not cry, Liù"). The three ministers, Timur, and Liù then try one last time to stop the Prince (Ah! Per l'ultima volta! – "Ah! For the last time!") from attempting to answer the riddles, but he refuses to heed their advice.

He calls Turandot's name three times, and each time Liù, Timur, and the ministers reply, "Death!" and the crowd declares, "We're already digging your grave!" Rushing to the gong that hangs in front of the palace, the Prince strikes it three times, declaring himself to be a suitor. From the palace balcony, Turandot accepts his challenge, as Ping, Pang, and Pong laugh at the Prince's foolishness.

Ping, Pang, and Pong lament their place as ministers, poring over palace documents and presiding over endless rituals. They prepare themselves for either a wedding or a funeral (Trio – Ping, Pang, Pong: Ola, Pang!). Ping suddenly longs for his country house in Honan, with its small lake surrounded by bamboo. Pong remembers his grove of forests near Tsiang, and Pang recalls his gardens near Kiu. The three share their fond memories of their lives away from the palace (Trio – Ping, Pang, Pong: Ho una casa nell'Honan – "I have a house in Honan"). They turn their thoughts back to how they have been accompanying young princes to their deaths. As the palace trumpet sounds, the ministers ready themselves for another spectacle as they await the entrance of their Emperor.

Scene 2: The courtyard of the palace. Sunrise

The Emperor Altoum, father of Turandot, sits on his grand throne in his palace. Weary of having to judge his isolated daughter's sport, he urges the Prince to withdraw his challenge, but the Prince refuses (Aria – Altoum, the Prince: Un giuramento atroce – "An atrocious oath"). Turandot enters and explains (In questa reggia – "In this palace") that her ancestress of millennia past, Princess Lo-u-Ling, reigned over her kingdom "in silence and joy, resisting the harsh domination of men" until she was ravished and murdered by an invading foreign prince. Turandot claims that Lo-u-Ling now lives in her, and out of revenge, Turandot has sworn to never let any man wed her. She warns the Prince to withdraw but again he refuses. The Princess presents her first riddle: Straniero, ascolta! – "What is born each night and dies each dawn?" The Prince correctly replies, Speranza – "Hope." The Princess, unnerved, presents her second riddle (Guizza al pari di fiamma – "What flickers red and warm like a flame, but is not fire?") The Prince thinks for a moment before replying, Sangue – "Blood". Turandot is shaken. The crowd cheers the Prince, provoking Turandot's anger. She presents her third riddle (Gelo che ti da foco – "What is ice which gives you fire and which your fire freezes still more?"). As the prince thinks, Turandot taunts him, "What is the ice that makes you burn?" The taunt makes him see the answer and he proclaims, "It is Turandot! Turandot!"

The crowd cheers for the triumphant Prince. Turandot throws herself at her father's feet and pleads with him not to leave her to the Prince's mercy. The Emperor insists that an oath is sacred and that it is Turandot's duty to wed the Prince (Duet – Turandot, Altoum, the Prince: Figlio del cielo). She cries out in despair, "Will you take me by force? (Mi porterai con la forza?) The Prince stops her, saying that he has a riddle for her: Tre enigmi m'hai proposto – "You do not know my name. Tell me my name before sunrise, and at dawn, I will die." Turandot accepts. The Emperor then declares that he hopes that he will be able to call the Prince his son when the sun next rises.

In the distance, heralds call out Turandot's command: Cosi comanda Turandot – "This night, none shall sleep in Peking! The penalty for all will be death if the Prince's name is not discovered by morning". The Prince waits for dawn and anticipates his victory: Nessun dorma – "Nobody shall sleep!"

Ping, Pong, and Pang appear and offer the Prince women and riches if he will only give up Turandot (Tu che guardi le stelle), but he refuses. A group of soldiers then drag in Timur and Liù. They have been seen speaking to the Prince, so they must know his name. Turandot enters and orders Timur and Liù to speak. The Prince feigns ignorance, saying they know nothing. But when the guards begin to treat Timur harshly, Liù declares that she alone knows the Prince's name, but she will not reveal it. Ping demands the Prince's name, and when Liù refuses to say it, she is tortured. Turandot is clearly taken aback by Liù's resolve and asks Liù who or what gave her such a strong resolve. Liù answers, "Princess, love!" (Principessa, amore!). Turandot demands that Ping tear the Prince's name from Liù, and Ping orders Liù to be tortured even more. Liù counters Turandot (Tu che di gel sei cinta – "You who are begirdled by ice"), saying that Turandot too will learn the exquisite joy of being guided by caring and compassionate love.[note 1] Having spoken, Liù seizes a dagger from a soldier's belt and stabs herself. As she staggers towards the Prince and falls dead, the crowd screams for her to speak the Prince's name. Since Timur is blind, he must be told about Liù's death, and he cries out in anguish. When Timur warns that the gods will be offended by Liù's death, the crowd becomes subdued, very afraid and ashamed. The grieving Timur and the crowd follow Liù's body as it is carried away. Everybody departs, leaving the Prince and Turandot. He reproaches Turandot for her cruelty (Duet – The Prince, Turandot: Principessa di morte – "Princess of death"), then takes her in his arms and kisses her in spite of her resistance.[note 2]

The Prince tries to convince Turandot to love him. At first she feels disgusted, but after he kisses her, she feels herself becoming more ardently desiring to be held and compassionately loved by him. She admits that ever since she met the Prince, she realized she both hated and loved him. She asks him to ask for nothing more and to leave, taking his mystery with him. The Prince, however, then reveals his name: "Calaf, son of Timur – Calaf, figlio di Timur", thereby placing his life in Turandot's hands. She can now destroy him if she wants (Duet – Turandot, Calaf: Del primo pianto).

Scene 2: The courtyard of the palace. Dawn

Turandot and Calaf approach the Emperor's throne. She declares that she knows the Prince's name: Diecimila anni al nostro Imperatore! – "It is ... love!" The crowd cheers and acclaims the two lovers (O sole! Vita! Eternità).


The unconditional love of the Prince saves the Princess from her thirst for blood. One thing that strikes me is the no one knows his name, he's undercover, he tells his name only to her, after a passionate kiss. Ben's name is, for now, unknown, too. OMG can you imagine if she asks his name while kissing her I MIGHT DIE
@Maria Antonietta

I love this opera......Nessun Dorma always moves me to tears! Smile

The only part of it I dislike is the death of Liu...it would be the equivalent of Finn getting offed while trying to help Rey redeem Kylo... Evil or Very Mad

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Post by BastilaBey on Fri 24 Feb - 21:13

Ahem

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I know Pablo said the TFA writers weren't aware of bastila and revan but I'm gonna go ahead and say this parallel is a plus for the force bond theory.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 24 Feb - 21:15

@panki wrote:
@Maria Antonietta wrote:Speaking of Beauty and the Beast kind of tales, there's one, which is my favourite. It's an Opera, composed by Giacomo Puccini: Turandot. It's an old Persian fairy tale and they are on reverse, she's the Beast and he's Beauty. It's a tale where love triumphs.

synopsis:
A Mandarin announces the law of the land (Aria – Popolo di Pechino! – "People of Peking!"). The Prince of Persia has failed to answer the three riddles, and he is to be beheaded at the next moonrising. As the crowd surges towards the gates of the palace, the imperial guards brutally repulse them, causing a blind old man to be knocked to the ground. The old man's slave-girl, Liù, cries out for help. A young man hears her cry and recognizes that the old man is his long-lost father, Timur, the deposed king of Tartary. The young Prince of Tartary is overjoyed at seeing Timur alive, but still urges Timur to not speak his name because he is afraid that the Chinese rulers, who have conquered Tartary, may kill or harm them. Timur then tells his son that, of all his servants, only Liù has remained faithful to him. When the Prince asks her why, she tells him that once, long ago in the palace, the Prince had smiled at her (Trio with chorus – The crowd, Liù, Prince of Tartary, Timur: Indietro, cani! – "Back, dogs!").

The moon rises, and the crowd's cries for blood dissolve into silence. The doomed Prince of Persia, who is on his way to be executed, is led before the crowd. The young Prince is so handsome and kind that the crowd and the Prince of Tartary decide that they want Turandot to act compassionately, and they beg Turandot to appear and spare his life (Aria – The crowd, Prince of Tartary: O giovinetto! – "O youth!"). She then appears, and with a single imperious gesture, orders the execution to continue. The Prince of Tartary, who has never seen Turandot before, falls immediately in love with her, and joyfully cries out Turandot's name three times. Then the Prince of Persia cries out one final time. The crowd, horrified, then screams out one final time. The Prince of Persia is then beheaded.

The Prince of Tartary is dazzled by Turandot's beauty. He is about to rush towards the gong and to strike it three times – the symbolic gesture of whoever wishes to attempt to solve the riddles so that he can marry Turandot – when the ministers Ping, Pang, and Pong appear. They urge him cynically to not lose his head for Turandot and to instead go back to his own country (Fermo, che fai?). Timur urges his son to desist, and Liù, who is secretly in love with the Prince, pleads with him not to attempt to solve the riddles (Signore, ascolta! – "Lord, hear!"). Liù's words touch the Prince's heart. He begs Liù to make Timur's exile more bearable by not abandoning Timur if the Prince fails to answer the riddles (Non piangere, Liù – "Do not cry, Liù"). The three ministers, Timur, and Liù then try one last time to stop the Prince (Ah! Per l'ultima volta! – "Ah! For the last time!") from attempting to answer the riddles, but he refuses to heed their advice.

He calls Turandot's name three times, and each time Liù, Timur, and the ministers reply, "Death!" and the crowd declares, "We're already digging your grave!" Rushing to the gong that hangs in front of the palace, the Prince strikes it three times, declaring himself to be a suitor. From the palace balcony, Turandot accepts his challenge, as Ping, Pang, and Pong laugh at the Prince's foolishness.

Ping, Pang, and Pong lament their place as ministers, poring over palace documents and presiding over endless rituals. They prepare themselves for either a wedding or a funeral (Trio – Ping, Pang, Pong: Ola, Pang!). Ping suddenly longs for his country house in Honan, with its small lake surrounded by bamboo. Pong remembers his grove of forests near Tsiang, and Pang recalls his gardens near Kiu. The three share their fond memories of their lives away from the palace (Trio – Ping, Pang, Pong: Ho una casa nell'Honan – "I have a house in Honan"). They turn their thoughts back to how they have been accompanying young princes to their deaths. As the palace trumpet sounds, the ministers ready themselves for another spectacle as they await the entrance of their Emperor.

Scene 2: The courtyard of the palace. Sunrise

The Emperor Altoum, father of Turandot, sits on his grand throne in his palace. Weary of having to judge his isolated daughter's sport, he urges the Prince to withdraw his challenge, but the Prince refuses (Aria – Altoum, the Prince: Un giuramento atroce – "An atrocious oath"). Turandot enters and explains (In questa reggia – "In this palace") that her ancestress of millennia past, Princess Lo-u-Ling, reigned over her kingdom "in silence and joy, resisting the harsh domination of men" until she was ravished and murdered by an invading foreign prince. Turandot claims that Lo-u-Ling now lives in her, and out of revenge, Turandot has sworn to never let any man wed her. She warns the Prince to withdraw but again he refuses. The Princess presents her first riddle: Straniero, ascolta! – "What is born each night and dies each dawn?" The Prince correctly replies, Speranza – "Hope." The Princess, unnerved, presents her second riddle (Guizza al pari di fiamma – "What flickers red and warm like a flame, but is not fire?") The Prince thinks for a moment before replying, Sangue – "Blood". Turandot is shaken. The crowd cheers the Prince, provoking Turandot's anger. She presents her third riddle (Gelo che ti da foco – "What is ice which gives you fire and which your fire freezes still more?"). As the prince thinks, Turandot taunts him, "What is the ice that makes you burn?" The taunt makes him see the answer and he proclaims, "It is Turandot! Turandot!"

The crowd cheers for the triumphant Prince. Turandot throws herself at her father's feet and pleads with him not to leave her to the Prince's mercy. The Emperor insists that an oath is sacred and that it is Turandot's duty to wed the Prince (Duet – Turandot, Altoum, the Prince: Figlio del cielo). She cries out in despair, "Will you take me by force? (Mi porterai con la forza?) The Prince stops her, saying that he has a riddle for her: Tre enigmi m'hai proposto – "You do not know my name. Tell me my name before sunrise, and at dawn, I will die." Turandot accepts. The Emperor then declares that he hopes that he will be able to call the Prince his son when the sun next rises.

In the distance, heralds call out Turandot's command: Cosi comanda Turandot – "This night, none shall sleep in Peking! The penalty for all will be death if the Prince's name is not discovered by morning". The Prince waits for dawn and anticipates his victory: Nessun dorma – "Nobody shall sleep!"

Ping, Pong, and Pang appear and offer the Prince women and riches if he will only give up Turandot (Tu che guardi le stelle), but he refuses. A group of soldiers then drag in Timur and Liù. They have been seen speaking to the Prince, so they must know his name. Turandot enters and orders Timur and Liù to speak. The Prince feigns ignorance, saying they know nothing. But when the guards begin to treat Timur harshly, Liù declares that she alone knows the Prince's name, but she will not reveal it. Ping demands the Prince's name, and when Liù refuses to say it, she is tortured. Turandot is clearly taken aback by Liù's resolve and asks Liù who or what gave her such a strong resolve. Liù answers, "Princess, love!" (Principessa, amore!). Turandot demands that Ping tear the Prince's name from Liù, and Ping orders Liù to be tortured even more. Liù counters Turandot (Tu che di gel sei cinta – "You who are begirdled by ice"), saying that Turandot too will learn the exquisite joy of being guided by caring and compassionate love.[note 1] Having spoken, Liù seizes a dagger from a soldier's belt and stabs herself. As she staggers towards the Prince and falls dead, the crowd screams for her to speak the Prince's name. Since Timur is blind, he must be told about Liù's death, and he cries out in anguish. When Timur warns that the gods will be offended by Liù's death, the crowd becomes subdued, very afraid and ashamed. The grieving Timur and the crowd follow Liù's body as it is carried away. Everybody departs, leaving the Prince and Turandot. He reproaches Turandot for her cruelty (Duet – The Prince, Turandot: Principessa di morte – "Princess of death"), then takes her in his arms and kisses her in spite of her resistance.[note 2]

The Prince tries to convince Turandot to love him. At first she feels disgusted, but after he kisses her, she feels herself becoming more ardently desiring to be held and compassionately loved by him. She admits that ever since she met the Prince, she realized she both hated and loved him. She asks him to ask for nothing more and to leave, taking his mystery with him. The Prince, however, then reveals his name: "Calaf, son of Timur – Calaf, figlio di Timur", thereby placing his life in Turandot's hands. She can now destroy him if she wants (Duet – Turandot, Calaf: Del primo pianto).

Scene 2: The courtyard of the palace. Dawn

Turandot and Calaf approach the Emperor's throne. She declares that she knows the Prince's name: Diecimila anni al nostro Imperatore! – "It is ... love!" The crowd cheers and acclaims the two lovers (O sole! Vita! Eternità).


The unconditional love of the Prince saves the Princess from her thirst for blood. One thing that strikes me is the no one knows his name, he's undercover, he tells his name only to her, after a passionate kiss. Ben's name is, for now, unknown, too. OMG can you imagine if she asks his name while kissing her I MIGHT DIE
@Maria Antonietta

I love this opera......Nessun Dorma always moves me to tears! Smile

The only part of it I dislike is the death of Liu...it would be the equivalent of Finn getting offed while trying to help Rey redeem Kylo... Evil or Very Mad
@panki

Yeah, poor Liù ;_;
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Post by Irina de France on Fri 24 Feb - 21:15

@BastilaBey wrote:Ahem

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 14 - Page 4 Image10

I know Pablo said the TFA writers weren't aware of bastila and revan but I'm gonna go ahead and say this parallel is a plus for the force bond theory.
@BastilaBey

Seriously, there are times where I feel like saying that Pablo saying there was no inspiration taken from Revan and Bastila for Kylo and Rey as BS. I mean, if it's all coincidences, they make very funny coincidences.
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Post by BastilaBey on Fri 24 Feb - 21:17

@Irina de France I think what he said was that the writers weren't aware of the kotor story. Which I can believe, but if they were drawing from the same archetypal inspiration, the story group could then fill in the gaps later? Who knows.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 24 Feb - 21:45

@BastilaBey wrote:@Irina de France I think what he said was that the writers weren't aware of the kotor story. Which I can believe, but if they were drawing from the same archetypal inspiration, the story group could then fill in the gaps later? Who knows.
@BastilaBey

Exactly. Or, let's say the writers say, "okay, so what if these two people are connected through the Force, somehow" and the Story Group pipes up, "well, in Star Wars we've got this thing called a Force bond..."

Fact is, we know from the concept art book that there were people involved in the brainstorming for TFA who definitely knew about Revan and Bastila. Filoni, for example. Just because JJ and Kasdan weren't familiar with KOTOR doesn't mean nobody in that group took inspiration from Revan and Bastila at any point.


@panki: well, on the bright side, Liù does get one of the most beautiful arias ever before she dies... rabbit
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Post by Piper Maru on Fri 24 Feb - 21:47

@BastilaBey wrote:Ahem

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 14 - Page 4 Image10

I know Pablo said the TFA writers weren't aware of bastila and revan but I'm gonna go ahead and say this parallel is a plus for the force bond theory.
@BastilaBey

I'm dying. I knew I've seen the "destinies intertwined" thing in Star Wars before, but I didn't remember where.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 24 Feb - 21:55

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@Irina de France I think what he said was that the writers weren't aware of the kotor story. Which I can believe, but if they were drawing from the same archetypal inspiration, the story group could then fill in the gaps later? Who knows.
@BastilaBey

Exactly. Or, let's say the writers say, "okay, so what if these two people are connected through the Force, somehow" and the Story Group pipes up, "well, in Star Wars we've got this thing called a Force bond..."

Fact is, we know from the concept art book that there were people involved in the brainstorming for TFA who definitely knew about Revan and Bastila. Filoni, for example. Just because JJ and Kasdan weren't familiar with KOTOR doesn't mean nobody in that group took inspiration from Revan and Bastila at any point.


@panki: well, on the bright side, Liù does get one of the most beautiful arias ever before she dies... rabbit
@Darth Dingbat




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vanquished by such fire,
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Post by Guest on Fri 24 Feb - 21:59

Kylo: Our destinies are intertwined, but how?

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