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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 4:19 pm

@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

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@EchoBase

I think that book might be Casino Royale.

*Space Bond vibes intensify*
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Post by panki on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 4:20 pm

@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

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@EchoBase

Its from the Bond novel Casino Royale.....interesting. ....is this the resistance plot? Or is Rey a Vesper Lynd? Or is Kylo a double agent? The plot thickens. Confus

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Post by BenRey on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 4:20 pm

@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

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@EchoBase

Chapter 20, The Nature of Evil; Chapter 21, Vesper Summary
Three days later, Mathis returns to Bond's hotel room. He brings Bond his check. He says there is little trace of the SMERSH man and he is most likely long gone. Bond learns the M the SMERSH man carved in his hand is actually the Russian letter 'SH,' signifying Bond is a spy. Much to Mathis' surprise, Bond tells him he is planning on retiring. He says he likes being alive and does not want to die.

Bond becomes philosophical. He says when he was young it was easy to tell the difference between the bad guys and the good guys, between right and wrong, now it is difficult. Bond thinks of the two people he was forced to kill in the past. He says he was awarded his... '

https://www.bookrags.com/checkout/?p=guides&u=casino-royale
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 4:23 pm

Here's somebody reading that chapter Razz

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Post by SkyStar on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 4:32 pm

@panki wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10 - Page 5 Img_9110
@EchoBase

Its from the Bond novel Casino Royale.....interesting. ....is this the resistance plot? Or is Rey a Vesper Lynd? Or is Kylo a double agent? The plot thickens. Confus
@panki

Could it be about Finn being in undercover mission? Resistance showing more complex characters, not being the all good guys he imagined them to be.
Also, some people are suggesting John Boyega should play the next James Bond, so why not see him being more Bond-ish in SW.


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Post by Guest on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 5:07 pm

@panki wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10 - Page 5 Img_9110
@EchoBase

Its from the Bond novel Casino Royale.....interesting. ....is this the resistance plot? Or is Rey a Vesper Lynd? Or is Kylo a double agent? The plot thickens. Confus
@panki

I hope it's not KMT. Sad as in I hope she's not a Vesper.

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Post by Piper Maru on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 5:21 pm

LOL at that picture. Hello Dark!Rey.

I have to say, I'm pretty excited about this "final Jedi" stuff. I mean, as a fan of Star Wars, obviously I love the Jedi and I think they're essential to the universe. But it's obvious that the Jedi Order was a failure, the Jedi were arrogant and too rigid, and their code had flaws. Not only that, Luke's attempt to rebuild the Order clearly failed, so I think it'd be refreshing to see a new take on it.

It's a great opportunity to expand the lore and to show how the hell the Force works without codes (both Sith and Jedi) and limitations.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 6:42 pm

@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

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@EchoBase

Aside from the James Bond reference, I really like this wording, "nature of evil."  "Nature" makes me think of bloodlines, ancestry ... and the question of what makes evil ... your blood or your choices? If Rey is, for example, the Emperor's grandkid, she is going to have a crisis of bloodline that in the end has the potential to be more devastating than even Ben's crisis, because Palps is actually more inherently evil.  The crisis for Ben might have made him think that all of his darker tendencies were inherent, impossible to fight, so perhaps in despair he resigned himself to a dark fate.  She may face the same crisis ... and maybe if she starts looking at it the way he did, it will cause him to wake up, perhaps not even to himself, but to help her not live his fate.
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Post by snufkin on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 7:23 pm

That Twitter answer is going to rachet up a lot of fan anxiety, maybe the whole Ache-to spoiler part is about an order from Snoke to wipe out the last two. It's certainly hinted at in their space Skype session TFA

Casino Royale and To Catch a Thief sound a lot more like the casino planet spoilers with Finn. Although Vesper Linde, maybe there will be a moment like this one?
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Post by IoJovi on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 7:50 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10 - Page 5 Img_9110
@EchoBase

Aside from the James Bond reference, I really like this wording, "nature of evil."  "Nature" makes me think of bloodlines, ancestry ... and the question of what makes evil ... your blood or your choices? If Rey is, for example, the Emperor's grandkid, she is going to have a crisis of bloodline that in the end has the potential to be more devastating than even Ben's crisis, because Palps is actually more inherently evil.  The crisis for Ben might have made him think that all of his darker tendencies were inherent, impossible to fight, so perhaps in despair he resigned himself to a dark fate.  She may face the same crisis ... and maybe if she starts looking at it the way he did, it will cause him to wake up, perhaps not even to himself, but to help her not live his fate.
@SoloSideCousin

This is why I see dark lineage for Rey. Her being Luke's kid (or heck, Obi Wan's granddaughter for that matter) isn't really going to challenge her. Obviously with Obi Wan though, there's the potential his offspring is less than stellar, but that doesn't quite compete with Palpatine, does it. Nothing can compete with that as far as giving her a shock to the system in terms of heritage. Vader was at least redeemable, as you say.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 7:56 pm

@snufkin wrote:That Twitter answer is going to rachet up a lot of fan anxiety, maybe the whole Ache-to spoiler part is about an order from Snoke to wipe out the last two. It's certainly hinted at in their space Skype session TFA

Casino Royale and To Catch a Thief sound a lot more like the casino planet spoilers with Finn. Although Vesper Linde, maybe there will be a moment like this one?
@snufkin

Well Vesper Lynd got caught up in something she regretted ... and the ST keeps switching gender roles ... so though this probably refers to the casino stuff, there might be a little Vesper in Kylo. To tell you the truth, Casini Royale is the only Bond movie I have really, really liked and it was because of moments just like the above scene. Oh man, if we get something similar in intensity (nevermind the water!!! Very Happy) in TLJ, I'll be screaming. Very Happy
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Post by snufkin on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 7:59 pm

@SoloSideCousin - I've never seen the campy 1967 version but this one is close in spirit to the original Ian Fleming paperback novels. And the best part really is the relationship between Bond and Lynd. Lynd is eventually revealed to be at the mercy of larger forces and in over her head in trying to survive and do the right thing. Hopefully that's a detail which will be used for TLJ.
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Post by Kessel on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:00 pm

So Rian clarified that "last" and "final" are synonyms. While the words are synonymous, I don't think they are perfect synonyms because "last" suggests that there's a set amount now, but there may be more later, while "final" seems to imply there will be no more, ever.

So, is this a JJ-esque clarification, or is it as simple as last=final? At any rate, I don't think it changes anything when it comes to speculation, anything is still possible when it comes to the future of the Jedi, but it's interesting that he felt the need to clarify it.

Maybe it's true that we SW fans just over-analyze stuff too much sometimes, lol.

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:30 pm

The Star Wars official IG account just dropped this little gem:

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So, Starkiller = Ilum?

It also instantly made me think of Chirrut's line from Rogue One: "The strongest stars have hearts of kyber."
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:53 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:The Star Wars official IG account just dropped this little gem:

ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10 - Page 5 Img_3910



So, Starkiller = Ilum?

It also instantly made me think of Chirrut's line from Rogue One: "The strongest stars have hearts of kyber."
@ISeeAnIsland

And that planet, that kyber planet is the sun (son) reborn. Very Happy
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Post by Piper Maru on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 12:18 am

Lmao, "a place of light gone dark". Subtle as a gun.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 12:20 am

@Piper Maru wrote:Lmao, "a place of light gone dark". Subtle as a gun.
@Piper Maru

Right? I also wonder if it's a hint towards Kylo being used as a weapon...
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 1:20 am

Kessel89 wrote:So Rian clarified that "last" and "final" are synonyms. While the words are synonymous, I don't think they are perfect synonyms because "last" suggests that there's a set amount now, but there may be more later, while "final" seems to imply there will be no more, ever.

So, is this a JJ-esque clarification, or is it as simple as last=final? At any rate, I don't think it changes anything when it comes to speculation, anything is still possible when it comes to the future of the Jedi, but it's interesting that he felt the need to clarify it.

Maybe it's true that we SW fans just over-analyze stuff too much sometimes, lol.

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@Kessel89

Oh God, I'm crossing my fingers! Jedi are WRONG! So the final jedi is Luke and Rey/Ben NEW JEDI
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Post by SkyStar on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 1:50 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@snufkin wrote:That Twitter answer is going to rachet up a lot of fan anxiety, maybe the whole Ache-to spoiler part is about an order from Snoke to wipe out the last two. It's certainly hinted at in their space Skype session TFA

Casino Royale and To Catch a Thief sound a lot more like the casino planet spoilers with Finn. Although Vesper Linde, maybe there will be a moment like this one?
@snufkin

Well Vesper Lynd got caught up in something she regretted ... and the ST keeps switching gender roles ... so though this probably refers to the casino stuff, there might be a little Vesper in Kylo. To tell you the truth, Casini Royale is the only Bond movie I have really, really liked and it was because of moments just like the above scene. Oh man, if we get something similar in intensity (nevermind the water!!! Very Happy) in TLJ, I'll be screaming. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

Oh, I loved Vesper in Casino Royale! First she seemed so fierce and after she had her break down in the shower you see what she has been dragged into is bigger then her. And the ending was fantastic, even though she ended up being damsel in distress situation, she not only was the one playing Bond and unlike other characters in this situation decided not to let him save her. Her character and situation has similarities to Kylos. Really does not mach anybody in Resistance.
Also, Rey could have some kind of breakdown and Adam Driver is so good at turning from seemingly brutal to this amazing caring and gentle man, thus suprising Rey and the audience of how caring Kylo could be.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 2:35 am

Kessel89 wrote:So Rian clarified that "last" and "final" are synonyms. While the words are synonymous, I don't think they are perfect synonyms because "last" suggests that there's a set amount now, but there may be more later, while "final" seems to imply there will be no more, ever.

So, is this a JJ-esque clarification, or is it as simple as last=final? At any rate, I don't think it changes anything when it comes to speculation, anything is still possible when it comes to the future of the Jedi, but it's interesting that he felt the need to clarify it.

Maybe it's true that we SW fans just over-analyze stuff too much sometimes, lol.

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@Kessel89

In another tweet, Rian claims that both words have both meanings. Last can obviously mean final, but I've never seen final used in the sense of "last remaining (but there can be more)". Final implies finality. Fin = end.

I'm not invested in the Jedi order ending or not ending, and I don't think anything like this would be spoiled in a tweet anyway, but I just don't agree with Rian that those words are perfectly interchangeable Razz Last offers more possibilities, interpretation-wise.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 4:12 am

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Post by CienaRee on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 6:43 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:So Rian clarified that "last" and "final" are synonyms. While the words are synonymous, I don't think they are perfect synonyms because "last" suggests that there's a set amount now, but there may be more later, while "final" seems to imply there will be no more, ever.

So, is this a JJ-esque clarification, or is it as simple as last=final? At any rate, I don't think it changes anything when it comes to speculation, anything is still possible when it comes to the future of the Jedi, but it's interesting that he felt the need to clarify it.

Maybe it's true that we SW fans just over-analyze stuff too much sometimes, lol.

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@Kessel89

In another tweet, Rian claims that both words have both meanings. Last can obviously mean final, but I've never seen final used in the sense of "last remaining (but there can be more)". Final implies finality. Fin = end.

I'm not invested in the Jedi order ending or not ending, and I don't think anything like this would be spoiled in a tweet anyway, but I just don't agree with Rian that those words are perfectly interchangeable Razz Last offers more possibilities, interpretation-wise.
@Darth Dingbat

Maybe he wants to make it clear that by last it means final jedi since there's been lots of speculation about whether jedi was singular or plural.And yeah I don't think last=final even in the SW universe since Yoda tells Luke that once he dies Luke's going to be the last jedi and he has to pass what he's learned to others.

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Post by Krafty on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 7:09 am

@Maria Antonietta wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:So Rian clarified that "last" and "final" are synonyms. While the words are synonymous, I don't think they are perfect synonyms because "last" suggests that there's a set amount now, but there may be more later, while "final" seems to imply there will be no more, ever.

So, is this a JJ-esque clarification, or is it as simple as last=final? At any rate, I don't think it changes anything when it comes to speculation, anything is still possible when it comes to the future of the Jedi, but it's interesting that he felt the need to clarify it.

Maybe it's true that we SW fans just over-analyze stuff too much sometimes, lol.

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@Kessel89

Oh God, I'm crossing my fingers! Jedi are WRONG! So the final jedi is Luke and Rey/Ben NEW JEDI
@Maria Antonietta

I've always sort of felt that too. My other SW obsessed buddies kind of look at me funny when I say "I think the Jedi were almost as messed up as the Sith."
There needs to be a medium, a balance between the two. I hope that gets explored.
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Post by DarthRen on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 5:20 am

@panki wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10 - Page 5 Img_9110
@EchoBase

Its from the Bond novel Casino Royale.....interesting. ....is this the resistance plot? Or is Rey a Vesper Lynd? Or is Kylo a double agent? The plot thickens. Confus
@panki

I dislike this theory almost on the level of Rey Solo and Skywalker because it's really weird. It diminishes truly Kylo's character and his motives. He believes in what he's doing, he's being manipulated by Snoke from a very young age, targeted even before. It would also put a different spin on Kylo's and Snoke's relationship. I just can't see Kylo killing Han unless he was really trying to turn to the Dark Side, where as ignoring Light Side who's calling to him. All around it just doesn't fit into his story. If people like it it's fine but people are yet to put some solid evidence for it.
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Post by panki on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:22 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@panki wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:Rian posted also this today. The nature of evil....and a picture of a woman who kinda looks like Daisy. Sure, it's just a coincidence...

ARCHIVE: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - 10 - Page 5 Img_9110
@EchoBase

Its from the Bond novel Casino Royale.....interesting. ....is this the resistance plot? Or is Rey a Vesper Lynd? Or is Kylo a double agent? The plot thickens. Confus
@panki

I dislike this theory almost on the level of Rey Solo and Skywalker because it's really weird. It diminishes truly Kylo's character and his motives. He believes in what he's doing, he's being manipulated by Snoke from a very young age, targeted even before. It would also put a different spin on Kylo's and Snoke's relationship. I just can't see Kylo killing Han unless he was really trying to turn to the Dark Side, where as ignoring Light Side who's calling to him. All around it just doesn't fit into his story. If people like it it's fine but people are yet to put some solid evidence for it.
@DarthRen

I never said is necessary for Kylo to be a double agent...I just raised a question (among other questions) based on the recently revealed Instagram picture.

But coming to your argument that there is no evidence that he is a double agent- I could say the same lack of evidence applies to all other Kylo theories as well.

All we have is Han's rendition of the jedi orders destruction, and Leia blaming Snoke for targeting Ben from the beginning.

Kylo pleading to Vader's helmet could be him asking for help to hide his might while he is on his mission just as much as it could mean he wants to turn darker. His killing Han could be an act of desperation to make Snoke trust him so he can get closer and destroy him...after all we do know that Snoke doesn't trust him (the tracker on his belt), Hux accuses him of having a personal agenda and then there is the matter of him trying to stop Hosnian Prime from being blown up as well as the mysterious data card warning the rebels that their base was going to be targetted by SKB.

There are also canon parallels of double agents on the good and bad side in other media- the most recent example being agent Kallus in Rebels and Oddy Muva in  the Poe Dameron comics...so double agents are not a new concept to star wars.

So I think there is more than enough evidence to take Kylo's story in any direction, be it a double agent, a brainwashed youth, mind implant victim, wannabe darksider etc.

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