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Post by Gemini on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 1:29 am

It could be me In total denial

But he did cross his fingers which in the uk means you are actually lying through your teeth with what you are saying. It also means wishing luck... So why do that when answering this way?

What I'm noticing is a pattern with the way daisy and now john are handling the situation when lineage and the word Kenobi are uttered.  

They get uncomfortable/try to move the question along by lying?

Daisy pretends like she never heard  of it before and swiftly diverts the question.  Twice she's done this.  Whereas in other situations she reacted more positive.

"I've never met Kenobi"- lie,  rey has met him.

"I'm Ben Kenobi? ".. Ohhh ohh I dunno" and proceeds to divert the question (when then questioned about her being grand daughter)  like lol,  seriously that's your answer?

Ohh what that's the first time I've heard of that!  Ohh ohh I dunno if she's his granddaughter
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Post by fuhry on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 9:59 am

@TheBastardofMandalore wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:The weird thing is John crossed his fingers as he said it.
@Acritiqua

The Rey Kenobi Files - Page 39 E226ff10

I’m glad you noticed that too... Wink
@TheBastardofMandalore

Wow, did he really do that?    Iiiiiiiinteresting.....  What if he was trying to keep the surprise under wraps.. "Trust me on this one (you don't want this surprise spoiled"...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LyingFingerCross

It also looked like he began his debunking before the interviewer even mentioned Kenobi - as if he was intending to debunk the idea the accent was planned to be significant.


Last edited by fuhry on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added something else)
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Post by SheLitAFire on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 10:27 am

@fuhry wrote:
@TheBastardofMandalore wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:The weird thing is John crossed his fingers as he said it.
@Acritiqua

The Rey Kenobi Files - Page 39 E226ff10

I’m glad you noticed that too... Wink
@TheBastardofMandalore

Wow, did he really do that?    Iiiiiiiinteresting.....  What if he was trying to keep the surprise under wraps.. "Trust me on this one (you don't want this surprise spoiled"...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LyingFingerCross

It also looked like he began his debunking before the interviewer even mentioned Kenobi - as if he was intending to debunk the idea the accent was planned to be significant.
 
@fuhry

I will say, that's what I thought too (bolded). I really have no particular attachment to any parentage theory (so I feel like I'm as unbiased as they come), but to me it seemed like his main comment "move on from that" was more about the accent having significance than anything else. It was the way he said it and when he said it.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 1:24 pm

Spoiler from Visual Dictionary:
Based on the VD Rey is going to learn the truth in some dark side focal point cave. The reason she was abandoned manifests itself and causes her to fear her destiny. It's really about what she's capable of, not her last name. That said, I don't think we'rd getting the whole story in this movie. We'll see.


Last edited by SheLitAFire on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added spoiler tags)
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Post by adamdrivershair on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 2:18 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Spoiler from Visual Dictionary :
Based on the VD Rey is going to learn the truth in some dark side focal point cave. The reason she was abandoned manifests itself and causes her to fear her destiny. It's really about what she's capable of, not her last name. That said, I don't think we'rd getting the whole story in this movie. We'll see.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Hey, do you mind putting this in spoiler tags? I'm trying to avoid leaks.

Wish I could join y'all in the spoiler section but I've been holding out so far!
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 2:22 pm

Oops. Wasn't thinking at all. I'm not used this...
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Post by BigDeal2187 on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 2:39 pm

Here's the video in question.  The discussion of accents starts at 12:00.



"I don't want ... I think the fans should move on from that one,"
The Rey Kenobi Files - Page 39 Move_o11


"guys, trust me, I've got your back."
The Rey Kenobi Files - Page 39 Finger10


"Move on from that one."
The Rey Kenobi Files - Page 39 Move_o10


It is possible that John is simply saying to move on from accents as a clue to Rey's parents/lineage ("I don't think that those two worlds mesh into the narrative").  When the interviewer suggests that perhaps accents might be a clue as to Rey's parents John goes "hmmm..." and "ohhh...." as though he hasn't really thought about it before.

Nevertheless I still think that John is aware of some of the different parentage/lineage theories for Rey, so the problem as I see it is that it's not until the interviewer mentions the name, Obi-Wan, that Boyega says to move on from that one.  When I watched this video for the first time it was very apparent to me where the interviewer was going with his line of questioning, then when he says "It's just interesting because Obi-Wan had..." that's when John says to "move on."

Am I wrong here?
Spoiler:
The leaks from the visual dictionary don't debunk Rey Kenobi but they don't confirm it either.
 I don't know.  My gut instinct is that John was debunking it.

And Rey force grabbing Kylo's saber, is there a parallel to that in the previous films?  (In AOTC Obi-Wan tosses his saber to Anakin).
Spoiler:
Rey's stubbornness in wanting Luke to teach her
-- this mirrors Obi-Wan's stubbornness in wanting to train Anakin in spite of Yoda's and the Jedi Council's protests.  Ah, maybe I should "move on" from this Smile
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Post by Starliteprism on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 4:18 pm

@adamdrivershair wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Spoiler from Visual Dictionary :
Based on the VD Rey is going to learn the truth in some dark side focal point cave. The reason she was abandoned manifests itself and causes her to fear her destiny. It's really about what she's capable of, not her last name. That said, I don't think we'rd getting the whole story in this movie. We'll see.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Hey, do you mind putting this in spoiler tags? I'm trying to avoid leaks.

Wish I could join y'all in the spoiler section but I've been holding out so far!
@adamdrivershair

Yea, I think I've had my quota of spoilers now. My personal bat signal is now flashing against the night sky as scanned pics of 5-minute stories are being shared of the movie, same sort of sets I normally read to my child a times.

Good on you for holding out. I've got exactly 6.5 days until I will be sitting my bottom in a cinema seat, nachos in hand, with a similar excitement to that of a child waiting for her parents to wake up in the morning to open Christmas presents. :-p
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Post by fuhry on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 9:40 am

I'm struggling not to go over to the spoilers section. I tend to want spoilers, but sometime last week, I started resisting. I went into TFA pretty much knowing that Han was going to die. Still, during that scene, I was like, "OK, here it comes", but then I was like "Maybe that Han dying thing was just a rumor, because I think Kylo is going to redeem here!" Then it was like "Welp". All in all it worked out, but I've started to feel like I know enough.

I accidentally read that spoiler above. It's not something that surprises me, I had a feeling something like that would occur. It did make me consider that we may find out who Rey's parents are in this film without actually getting much extra background, like for instance, who her grandparents are.
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Post by SheLitAFire on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 10:34 am

@fuhry

Sorry, I just now added spoiler tags in case others who visit this thread are avoiding leaks/spoilers. Sorry for not getting to it sooner!
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Post by TheBastardofMandalore on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 8:27 pm

@Gemini
@spacebaby45678

Just going to leave this here as a reminder...there’s always hope.  Wink Keep your chins up ladies!

.


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Post by TheBastardofMandalore on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 12:41 am

@TheBastardofMandalore wrote:@Gemini
@spacebaby45678

Just going to leave this here as a reminder...there’s always hope.  Wink Keep your chins up ladies!




OMG, good Lord! I accidentally hit the strike through instead of the hide text icon in my previous post.  Rolling Eyes Sorry all! It’s been a loooong day. I realize it’s probably too late to fix it but I did it anyway.
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Post by fuhry on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 7:00 am

I gotta say that in the last few days the 'no spoilers' section of this forum is, like, a 75% fail lol. It's the 'sorta spoilers' section. Glad I'm going to see it tonight!!
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Post by fuhry on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:09 pm

OK, so the Dark Side force cave showed her nothing but her own reflection, and unstable, selfish Kylo who is afraid to cede any power to her convinces her that her parents sold her to Plutt for an eighth of pot and transport off the planet.

I'm not buying it people!   I don't know who those people were that sold her to Unkar Plutt, but I say they weren't her parents, and even if they were, they weren't her grandparents!


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Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:15 pm

@fuhry wrote:OK, so the Dark Side force cave showed her nothing but her own reflection, and unstable, selfish Kylo who is afraid to cede any power to her convinces her that her parents sold her to Plutt for an eighth of pot and transport off the planet.

I'm not buying it people! I don't know who those people were that sold her to Unkar Plutt, but I say they weren't her parents, and even if they were, they weren't her grandparents!
@fuhry

I thought he got that information from her mind. As in, it was something she already knew.

I don't think Kylo has actually lied to her at any point.
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Post by Piper Maru on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:17 pm

Yeah, Kylo is a complete mess but he's not a liar. He's pretty sincere during the whole movie and when he drops the parentage bomb on her, it was the truth, and she knew it.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:23 pm

It's not a delusion or a lie, he's telling her the truth. It's tied to the Interrogation Scene, it's what he sees in her with the "you're so lonely, so desperate to leave" line. And he didn't force it out her the way he forced information out of Poe - he saw it, recognized it because he knew what it felt like, and it sparked the bundle of feelings (compassion, tenderness, but also "let's be miserable together") he has for her. It's also him mirroring her "you'll never be as strong as Darth Vader." Because that was his greatest fear and hers in turn is the truth she's been suppressing. He gets it out of her and helps her face it, which makes it possible for her to move on.
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Post by Darth Rowan on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:59 pm

@fuhry wrote:OK, so the Dark Side force cave showed her nothing but her own reflection, and unstable, selfish Kylo who is afraid to cede any power to her convinces her that her parents sold her to Plutt for an eighth of pot and transport off the planet.

I'm not buying it people! I don't know who those people were that sold her to Unkar Plutt, but I say they weren't her parents, and even if they were, they weren't her grandparents!
@fuhry

I’m with you that there’s probably more to Rey’s parentage than TLJ lets on, but I don’t think Kylo Ren would knowingly lie to Rey. He doesn’t lie, if anything he uses his sincerity like a hammer to bash people with lol.

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Post by fuhry on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 5:22 pm

@Darth Rowan wrote:
@fuhry wrote:OK, so the Dark Side force cave showed her nothing but her own reflection, and unstable, selfish Kylo who is afraid to cede any power to her convinces her that her parents sold her to Plutt for an eighth of pot and transport off the planet.

I'm not buying it people!   I don't know who those people were that sold her to Unkar Plutt, but I say they weren't her parents, and even if they were, they weren't her grandparents!
@fuhry

I’m with you that there’s probably more to Rey’s parentage than TLJ lets on, but I don’t think Kylo Ren would knowingly lie to Rey. He doesn’t lie, if anything he uses his sincerity like a hammer to bash people with lol.
@Darth Rowan

Well, maybe he doesn't lie to her but he makes suggestions.  "You know I can take what I want."    The truth of it is that Rey may be wondering "Can he take what he wants?"   Similarly, he says "You already know the answer - your parents were lowlifes that sold you off".  Probably in Rey's brain, it's a question - "Were my parents lowlifes that sold me off"?  And I think Kylo wants to convince her she has nothing, no connection, because he wants her to accept the connection he is offering (where he gets to hold the weapons and decide where to fire them in the name of eradicating the past).  Come to think of it Maz does the same thing "You already know the answer".  But that's talking about 'family' and not 'parents'.  But I guess it just depends on whether the suggester has an agenda.

There's nothing wrong with having her come from insignificant parentage, part of me likes it (Kylo would say "You already know you like it").  And there was no narrative purpose, in this movie, of exposing her parentage.  But I kind of feel it still seems open ended.


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Post by reylo1992 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 5:39 pm

@fuhry wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
@fuhry wrote:OK, so the Dark Side force cave showed her nothing but her own reflection, and unstable, selfish Kylo who is afraid to cede any power to her convinces her that her parents sold her to Plutt for an eighth of pot and transport off the planet.

I'm not buying it people!   I don't know who those people were that sold her to Unkar Plutt, but I say they weren't her parents, and even if they were, they weren't her grandparents!
@fuhry

I’m with you that there’s probably more to Rey’s parentage than TLJ lets on, but I don’t think Kylo Ren would knowingly lie to Rey. He doesn’t lie, if anything he uses his sincerity like a hammer to bash people with lol.
@Darth Rowan

Well, maybe he doesn't lie to her but he makes suggestions.  "You know I can take what I want."    The truth of it is that Rey may be wondering "Can he take what he wants?"   Similarly, he says "You already know the answer - your parents were lowlifes that sold you off".  Probably in Rey's brain, it's a question - "Were my parents lowlifes that sold me off"?  And I think Kylo wants to convince her she has nothing, no connection, because he wants her to accept the connection he is offering (where he gets to hold the weapons and decide where to fire them in the name of eradicating the past).  Come to think of it Maz does the same thing "You already know the answer".  But that's talking about 'family' and not 'parents'.  But I guess it just depends on whether the suggester has an agenda.

There's nothing wrong with having her come from insignificant parentage, part of me likes it (Kylo would say "You already know you like it").  And there was no narrative purpose, in this movie, of exposing her parentage.  But I kind of feel it still seems open ended.
@fuhry

I definitely think that Kylo doesn't lie to her even if he badly wants her by his side. I feel like it's still opened but tbh it would be awful to know that Obi-Wan's spawn abandoned his own daughter to starve to death. On this forum, a lot of us - including me - thought that no parent would dare to abandon their child like that and that's why it was not Luke. Well, we know now that it was unfortunately possible. So what does it bring to the story to make her a Kenobi in these circumstances?
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Post by ZioRen on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 6:28 pm

Honestly, and maybe this is strange, but I think a reveal that Kylo was lying to her in that moment would be an enormous strike against Reylo. Even if it's not the truth, I hope Kylo at least thinks it is.

I'm going to be pretty angry if that whole reveal turns out to be fake or they cop out of keeping it as her background in IX. I think it really works, and is one of the only really bold choices made in TLJ, in my opinion.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 6:33 pm

As much as I would have loved for her to be a Kenobi- and I thought she would be- alas I don't think it is happening. I think Rey's "I'm no one" from the first teaser trailer for TFA was the truth.
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Post by Casper on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 6:40 pm

@fuhry wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
@fuhry wrote:OK, so the Dark Side force cave showed her nothing but her own reflection, and unstable, selfish Kylo who is afraid to cede any power to her convinces her that her parents sold her to Plutt for an eighth of pot and transport off the planet.

I'm not buying it people!   I don't know who those people were that sold her to Unkar Plutt, but I say they weren't her parents, and even if they were, they weren't her grandparents!
@fuhry

I’m with you that there’s probably more to Rey’s parentage than TLJ lets on, but I don’t think Kylo Ren would knowingly lie to Rey. He doesn’t lie, if anything he uses his sincerity like a hammer to bash people with lol.
@Darth Rowan

Well, maybe he doesn't lie to her but he makes suggestions.  "You know I can take what I want."    The truth of it is that Rey may be wondering "Can he take what he wants?"   Similarly, he says "You already know the answer - your parents were lowlifes that sold you off".  Probably in Rey's brain, it's a question - "Were my parents lowlifes that sold me off"?  And I think Kylo wants to convince her she has nothing, no connection, because he wants her to accept the connection he is offering (where he gets to hold the weapons and decide where to fire them in the name of eradicating the past).  Come to think of it Maz does the same thing "You already know the answer".  But that's talking about 'family' and not 'parents'.  But I guess it just depends on whether the suggester has an agenda.

There's nothing wrong with having her come from insignificant parentage, part of me likes it (Kylo would say "You already know you like it").  And there was no narrative purpose, in this movie, of exposing her parentage.  But I kind of feel it still seems open ended.
@fuhry
Actually, he doesn't say it, he tells her to: "Say it."  The truth is, he didn't say anything about her parents that she didn't already 'know.'

But what does she really know?

I don't think those were her parents.  I think they were her foster parents or that they might have stolen or even bought her after she was separated somehow from her real family, but she may have really believed they were her folks.   And Kylo saw them too, since he got that vision from her mind, and those were the only parents she'd ever known.  But Kylo likely felt there was 'more,' but failed to mention it because he doesn't want her to belong to anyone but him.  

I don't think she knows who she is.  Adam called her a princess, and I don't think that was misdirection.  I also don't think it meant that she was this incredibly powerful force user that came from 'nothing.'  There was one major hint in the movie that she might still be a Kenobi: the scene where R2 replays the original Leia distress hologram to Obi Wan, and then immediately after the camera pans to sleeping Rey.  I actually came out of this movie more convinced of the Kenobi theory than ever.

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Post by BigDeal2187 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 11:20 pm

One thing I don't understand, and maybe I just need to watch it again, but didn't Kylo tell Rey that her parents were dead in a pauper's grave in the Jakku desert (or something like that)? Or am I misquoting? How does that jive with the force vision in TFA where a young, distressed Rey is screaming "come back" to the ship leaving Jakku?
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Post by Casper on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 12:53 am

@BigDeal2187 wrote:One thing I don't understand, and maybe I just need to watch it again, but didn't Kylo tell Rey that her parents were dead in a pauper's grave in the Jakku desert (or something like that)?  Or am I misquoting?  How does that jive with the force vision in TFA where a young, distressed Rey is screaming "come back" to the ship leaving Jakku?
@BigDeal2187

It doesn't; you're right. That kind of confused me too.  Maybe he was making an assumption, like that they're so insignificant that they ended their miserable, insignificant little lives in the same place she would have if she hadn't been 'awoken' by him.  I think he knows or senses that there's more to her story, but he doesn't want her to go there.  He wants her to go to him, and we saw that there's still a connection between them at the end (they were able to contact each other with their minds even after their 'break-up').  He's all about killing the past, so he can't understand her need to reconcile it.

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