Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings

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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:46 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:not that I wanna go down that path already... but we know Ben is the last Skywalker. If they gonna have a platonic relationship, who will continue the Skywalker line? Some random chick Ben nails off screen? (sorry for the choice of words WinksD ) Not that I wanna make Rey a breed mare but it would be strange if her place would be "buddy of Ben and spiritual soulmate" whatever and they both will have another love interest in IX?
I mean, Disney is all about money and I bet they wanna make another trilogy?
@Night Huntress

There is a thread for that! I think it's called "The Reproductive Imperative"
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Post by vaderito on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:47 pm

@Darth Dingbat

Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - Page 37 Tumblr_nt84nm2pP41te96wio1_400

I hope that reach Out is an actual, special theme and not just the Force theme or Rey+Kylo themes.
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Post by Night Huntress on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:52 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
There is a thread for that! I think it's called "The Reproductive Imperative"
@Cowgirlsamurai

Ups? Really? Have to check it out... I didn't know what to make of the title. Embarassed

Anyway- that's just pure logical thinking why a non-romantic relationship wouldn't make sense to me... it wouldn't lead anywhere in the future.

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Post by Camaro on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:52 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:not that I wanna go down that path already... but we know Ben is the last Skywalker. If they gonna have a platonic relationship, who will continue the Skywalker line? Some random chick Ben nails off screen? (sorry for the choice of words WinksD ) Not that I wanna make Rey a breed mare but it would be strange if her place would be "buddy of Ben and spiritual soulmate" whatever and they both will have another love interest in IX?
I mean, Disney is all about money and I bet they wanna make another trilogy?
@Night Huntress

There is a thread for that! I think it's called "The Reproductive Imperative"
@Cowgirlsamurai

To this point, I personally love this timeline, a son or daughter born of two extremely powerful force users is so interesting, yet Reylo supporters are often mocked and ridiculed for daring to talk about "Skywalker babies" and wanting to somehow "ruin" Rey's character. I just don't get why being  a mother is supposed to be somehow shameful or stupid or beneath Rey. I'm not a mother myself but being one has to be one of the most beautiful, toughest things a woman can go through. Why can't a woman be a powerful warrior and a mother as well, eventually? We are hardly advocating for a passive Rey that suddenly becomes the space version of a 50's housewife.

EDIT: Sorry if this belongs on a different thread. Question
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Post by IoJovi on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:53 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:not that I wanna go down that path already... but we know Ben is the last Skywalker. If they gonna have a platonic relationship, who will continue the Skywalker line? Some random chick Ben nails off screen? (sorry for the choice of words WinksD ) Not that I wanna make Rey a breed mare but it would be strange if her place would be "buddy of Ben and spiritual soulmate" whatever and they both will have another love interest in IX?
I mean, Disney is all about money and I bet they wanna make another trilogy?
@Night Huntress

In a nutshell.  The Raw Powah is going to be what makes them understand each other in the end.  This is a story of the last Skywalker descendant, seen through Rey’s eyes.  For me, it was never a question if Reylo would happen, it was a matter of how it come to fruition.  The raw Powah explains everything.  She’s going to experience the same rejection he felt, based on a shared ability that’s within them both.  An ability that can both be amazing and terrifying at the same time.  An ability that makes them both feel isolated from those around hem.  Rey already has abandonment issues, and to have it happen to her again is going to be a double whammy.

I do believe now the Jedi academy slaughter of Luke’s former students was the result of Ben not being able to control his power.  It’s also why I’m a firm believer in it being Rey that actually blows up the hut.  Her journey is going to come very close to what happened to Ben six years prior, and through that she will gain a better understanding of him.

@Camaro I am not shy or apologetic about wanting Reylo babies and the stories that will go with them... A major part of Rey’s narrative is the need for family. She’ll get that - just not in the way she had thought.


Last edited by IoJovi on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by DarthRen on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:54 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:not that I wanna go down that path already... but we know Ben is the last Skywalker. If they gonna have a platonic relationship, who will continue the Skywalker line? Some random chick Ben nails off screen? (sorry for the choice of words WinksD ) Not that I wanna make Rey a breed mare but it would be strange if her place would be "buddy of Ben and spiritual soulmate" whatever and they both will have another love interest in IX?
I mean, Disney is all about money and I bet they wanna make another trilogy?
@Night Huntress

Depends on if they want to continue Skywalker legacy and not moving into a fresh area.

Rey can be Ben's best friend, spiritual connection and soulmate without havng sex or being romantically involved. Could be just as meaningful and important. We don't know what's this raw power is about. Why does these two have it, where it came from and what it means for the balance.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:56 pm

@Camaro wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:not that I wanna go down that path already... but we know Ben is the last Skywalker. If they gonna have a platonic relationship, who will continue the Skywalker line? Some random chick Ben nails off screen? (sorry for the choice of words WinksD ) Not that I wanna make Rey a breed mare but it would be strange if her place would be "buddy of Ben and spiritual soulmate" whatever and they both will have another love interest in IX?
I mean, Disney is all about money and I bet they wanna make another trilogy?
@Night Huntress

There is a thread for that! I think it's called "The Reproductive Imperative"
@Cowgirlsamurai

To this point, I personally love this timeline, a son or daughter born of two extremely powerful force users is so interesting, yet Reylo supporters are often mocked and ridiculed for daring to talk about "Skywalker babies" and wanting to somehow "ruin" Rey's character. I just don't get why being  a mother is supposed to be somehow shameful or stupid or beneath Rey. I'm not a mother myself but being one has to be one of the most beautiful, toughest things a woman can go through. Why can't a woman be a powerful warrior and a mother as well, eventually? We are hardly advocating for a passive Rey that suddenly becomes the space version of a 50's housewife.

EDIT: Sorry if this belongs on a different thread. Question
@Camaro

Especially puzzling when the same people usually go, "How could anyone be as powerful as Rey without being of the Skywalker blood? Shouldn't there be a Skywalker protagonist in this trilogy? How can Luke's bloodline not continue?" etc.
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Post by Camaro on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:58 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Camaro I am not shy or apologetic about wanting Reylo babies and the stories that will go with them...  A major part of Rey’s narrative is the need for family.  She’ll get that - just not in the way she had thought.
@IoJovi

Yep, love this. It's such a poetic, emotionally satisfying conclusion to her arc.
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Post by Night Huntress on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 1:58 pm

@Camaro wrote:

To this point, I personally love this timeline, a son or daughter born of two extremely powerful force users is so interesting, yet Reylo supporters are often mocked and ridiculed for daring to talk about "Skywalker babies" and wanting to somehow "ruin" Rey's character. I just don't get why being  a mother is supposed to be somehow shameful or stupid or beneath Rey. I'm not a mother myself but being one has to be one of the most beautiful, toughest things a woman can go through. Why can't a woman be a powerful warrior and a mother as well, eventually? We are hardly advocating for a passive Rey that suddenly becomes the space version of a 50's housewife.

EDIT: Sorry if this belongs on a different thread. Question
@Camaro

I don't have kids either- I'm not really into kids to be honest. But why would that ruin her character??? She can be a mother and still a bad*** chick- what's their problem? They really seem to be stuck in the 50's.
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Post by DarthRen on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:06 pm

@tukicarreno wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:Romantic, platonic, spiritual ... their relationshio could and probably contain elements of it all in a rather complex relationship. Hard to describe but it's a unique thing to share. Once in a lifetime thing, because you hardly gonna find another soul to share this bond with. Most exciting is the ride to it, how they develop this bond and how it will impact them as they grew. Whatever happens in the end is fine with me, because even if one of them dies (unlikely), but their bond transcends their life. It goes way beyond when they will be Force ghosts. They always have each other, forever, no matter where each of them are.

@DarthRen

I get that. It will be special no matter what. A full romance would be epic if done the right way though and will make more of an impact to the story combined with everything you said. We shall see what happens.
@tukicarreno

It coulg go there but just to show that we are or should be open minded to different ways. Unlike antis who are in their Kylo Ren hate bandwagon, Rey is a precious humain being and should stay away from Kylo.



@IoJovi wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:not that I wanna go down that path already... but we know Ben is the last Skywalker. If they gonna have a platonic relationship, who will continue the Skywalker line? Some random chick Ben nails off screen? (sorry for the choice of words WinksD ) Not that I wanna make Rey a breed mare but it would be strange if her place would be "buddy of Ben and spiritual soulmate" whatever and they both will have another love interest in IX?
I mean, Disney is all about money and I bet they wanna make another trilogy?
@Night Huntress

In a nutshell.  The Raw Powah is going to be what makes them understand each other in the end.  This is a story of the last Skywalker descendant, seen through Rey’s eyes.  For me, it was never a question if Reylo would happen, it was a matter of how it come to fruition.  The raw Powah explains everything.  She’s going to experience the same rejection he felt, based on a shared ability that’s within them both.  An ability that can both be amazing and terrifying at the same time.  An ability that makes them both feel isolated from those around hem.  Rey already has abandonment issues, and to have it happen to her again is going to be a double whammy.

I do believe now the Jedi academy slaughter of Luke’s former students was the result of Ben not being able to control his power.  It’s also why I’m a firm believer in it being Rey that actually blows up the hut.  Her journey is going to come very close to what happened to Ben six years prior, and through that she will gain a better understanding of him.

@Camaro I am not shy or apologetic about wanting Reylo babies and the stories that will go with them... A major part of Rey’s narrative is the need for family. She’ll get that - just not in the way she had thought.
@IoJovi

I faintly remember, it was JJ in the commentary who said, didn't he?
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Post by vaderito on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:13 pm

@DarthRen yes, it was JJ Stormborn of the House Abrams, First of His Name, the Unfired, King of Adolescents and Fan Boys, Khaaan of the Great Geek Sea, Breaker of Reylated Chains, Father of Reylo.

EDIT: Credit to @Darth_Awakened for suggesting Khan instead of Khal


Last edited by vaderito on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by snufkin on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:18 pm

They’re stuck on that idea because George Lucas made Carrie Fisher go diets and wear a gold bikini and turned a bada** 14 year old warrior queen with a girl gang into the Bad Boy’s tragic love interest who’s a plot point for more Skywalker babies and his fall to the DS. So they see Rey as finally getting a female lead and preemptively started yelling because of those past mistakes. Which nobody here wants that either and we’d be out the door if that went down. But having listened to the filmmakers and knowing that LF is predominantly run by a female led executive team, it’s likely they have the same concerns and what’s planned won’t make those same mistakes.

Also just my anecdotal experience as a most of the time lurker (only active here), but the SW fandom as a whole comes across as pretty second wave in terms of its feminism. And just like fandom, there’s always been a problem in feminism with gatekeeping. So you hear that if you think Rey will so much as have a civil chat with the bad guy, let alone have hot Force sex with him, you’re both a bad fan and a bad feminist. Some of it is also the classic social conservatism and policing of what women can and cannot do under the guise of empowerment. Hence the “Rey shouldn’t do ______ because she’s a role model” comments.
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:19 pm

@vaderito wrote:@DarthRen yes, it was JJ Stormborn of the House Abrams, First of His Name, the Unfired, King of Adolescents and Fan Boys, Khal of the Great Geek Sea, Breaker of Reylated Chains, Father of Reylo.
@vaderito

Now I have a vision of JJ going 'Dracarys' on the Annies. hahahahaha
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Post by vaderito on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:23 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@DarthRen yes, it was JJ Stormborn of the House Abrams, First of His Name, the Unfired, King of Adolescents and Fan Boys, Khal of the Great Geek Sea, Breaker of Reylated Chains, Father of Reylo.
@vaderito

Now I have a vision of JJ going 'Dracarys' on the Annies. hahahahaha
@Rei of Sunshine

Well, Rian already went Dracarys with "I see you are upset, Annie" tweet. How's JJ going to top that? Oh, wait, he already Dracarys'd them when he said that Rey's parents are not in TFA. cheers
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:29 pm

@vaderito wrote:@DarthRen yes, it was JJ Stormborn of the House Abrams, First of His Name, the Unfired, King of Adolescents and Fan Boys, Khal of the Great Geek Sea, Breaker of Reylated Chains, Father of Reylo.
@vaderito

Just want share the version I read:

JJ Stormborn of the House Abrams, First of His Name, the Unfired, King of Adolescents and Fan Boys, KHAN of the Great Geek Sea, Breaker of Reylated Chains, Father of Reylo.

lol! lol!
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Post by vaderito on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:30 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@DarthRen yes, it was JJ Stormborn of the House Abrams, First of His Name, the Unfired, King of Adolescents and Fan Boys, Khal of the Great Geek Sea, Breaker of Reylated Chains, Father of Reylo.
@vaderito

Just want share the version I read:

JJ Stormborn of the House Abrams, First of His Name, the Unfired, King of Adolescents and Fan Boys, KHAN of the Great Geek Sea, Breaker of Reylated Chains, Father of Reylo.

lol! lol!
@Darth_Awakened

Khan is much better! cheers
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:34 pm

@snufkin wrote:They’re stuck on that idea because George Lucas made Carrie Fisher go diets and wear a gold bikini and turned a bada** 14 year old warrior queen with a girl gang into the Bad Boy’s tragic love interest who’s a plot point for more Skywalker babies and his fall to the DS. So they see Rey as finally getting a female lead and preemptively started yelling because of those past mistakes. Which nobody here wants that either and we’d be out the door if that went down. But having listened to the filmmakers and knowing that LF is predominantly run by a female led executive team, it’s likely they have the same concerns and what’s planned won’t make those same mistakes.

Also just my anecdotal experience as a most of the time lurker (only active here), but the SW fandom as a whole comes across as pretty second wave in terms of its feminism. And just like fandom, there’s always been a problem in feminism with gatekeeping. So you hear that if you think Rey will so much as have a civil chat with the bad guy, let alone have hot Force sex with him, you’re both a bad fan and a bad feminist. Some of it is also the classic social conservatism and policing of what women can and cannot do under the guise of empowerment. Hence the “Rey shouldn’t do ______ because she’s a role model” comments.
@snufkin

I've been trying not to think about the hot Force sex aspect of this whole thing, but every now and then a comment on here reminds me of it. And now it's on my mind. At work. LOL Razz

I think that there's this idea that once a woman has reproduced, she's done. She'll have served her biological purpose and she'll be too busy for anything else after that.
Characterwise, we have Leia, who had a kid and still got s*** done. Although maybe this is a bad example since she might not have invested enough in said kid? Padme literally gave birth and died. I'm convinced that Rey has to be the first to reproduce with a Skywalker, live, and continue to kick a** Very Happy
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Post by nite0wl29 on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:46 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@snufkin wrote:They’re stuck on that idea because George Lucas made Carrie Fisher go diets and wear a gold bikini and turned a bada** 14 year old warrior queen with a girl gang into the Bad Boy’s tragic love interest who’s a plot point for more Skywalker babies and his fall to the DS. So they see Rey as finally getting a female lead and preemptively started yelling because of those past mistakes. Which nobody here wants that either and we’d be out the door if that went down. But having listened to the filmmakers and knowing that LF is predominantly run by a female led executive team, it’s likely they have the same concerns and what’s planned won’t make those same mistakes.

Also just my anecdotal experience as a most of the time lurker (only active here), but the SW fandom as a whole comes across as pretty second wave in terms of its feminism. And just like fandom, there’s always been a problem in feminism with gatekeeping. So you hear that if you think Rey will so much as have a civil chat with the bad guy, let alone have hot Force sex with him, you’re both a bad fan and a bad feminist. Some of it is also the classic social conservatism and policing of what women can and cannot do under the guise of empowerment. Hence the “Rey shouldn’t do ______ because she’s a role model” comments.
@snufkin

I've been trying not to think about the hot Force sex aspect of this whole thing, but every now and then a comment on here reminds me of it. And now it's on my mind. At work. LOL Razz

I think that there's this idea that once a woman has reproduced, she's done. She'll have served her biological purpose and she'll be too busy for anything else after that.
Characterwise, we have Leia, who had a kid and still got s*** done. Although maybe this is a bad example since she might not have invested enough in said kid? Padme literally gave birth and died. I'm convinced that Rey has to be the first to reproduce with a Skywalker, live, and continue to kick a** Very Happy
@Cowgirlsamurai

That would be the perfect chance to introduce the kiddos from the EU! A whole kicka** family of Skywalkers Very Happy
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Post by Guest on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:49 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@snufkin wrote:They’re stuck on that idea because George Lucas made Carrie Fisher go diets and wear a gold bikini and turned a bada** 14 year old warrior queen with a girl gang into the Bad Boy’s tragic love interest who’s a plot point for more Skywalker babies and his fall to the DS. So they see Rey as finally getting a female lead and preemptively started yelling because of those past mistakes. Which nobody here wants that either and we’d be out the door if that went down. But having listened to the filmmakers and knowing that LF is predominantly run by a female led executive team, it’s likely they have the same concerns and what’s planned won’t make those same mistakes.

Also just my anecdotal experience as a most of the time lurker (only active here), but the SW fandom as a whole comes across as pretty second wave in terms of its feminism. And just like fandom, there’s always been a problem in feminism with gatekeeping. So you hear that if you think Rey will so much as have a civil chat with the bad guy, let alone have hot Force sex with him, you’re both a bad fan and a bad feminist. Some of it is also the classic social conservatism and policing of what women can and cannot do under the guise of empowerment. Hence the “Rey shouldn’t do ______ because she’s a role model” comments.
@snufkin

I've been trying not to think about the hot Force sex aspect of this whole thing, but every now and then a comment on here reminds me of it. And now it's on my mind. At work. LOL Razz

I think that there's this idea that once a woman has reproduced, she's done. She'll have served her biological purpose and she'll be too busy for anything else after that.
Characterwise, we have Leia, who had a kid and still got s*** done. Although maybe this is a bad example since she might not have invested enough in said kid? Padme literally gave birth and died. I'm convinced that Rey has to be the first to reproduce with a Skywalker, live, and continue to kick a** Very Happy
@Cowgirlsamurai

I agree. Rey's more the kind of woman who'd have her baby strapped to her chest and be wielding a lightsaber at the same time. It'll be interesting to see where they take things, but automatically Rey is much more nuanced than Leia or Padme ever were, respectfully to those characters. She wasn't raised as a princess or royalty; she's a grafter and entirely self-sufficient, which is very refreshing. In the world of fictional romance, there's always the taboo that with strong women, having a love interest or romance weakens them, but it's so not true. In tandem with the Scavenger and the Monstah thread here, one neat underlying theme in this new trilogy is that everyone has different layers. Rey's not just a scavenger, or a nobody. She's powerful and driven. And Kylo is (I would argue) not entirely a monster. He's conflicted, and at war with himself. And that's friggin' cool.

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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:50 pm

@nite0wl29 wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@snufkin wrote:They’re stuck on that idea because George Lucas made Carrie Fisher go diets and wear a gold bikini and turned a bada** 14 year old warrior queen with a girl gang into the Bad Boy’s tragic love interest who’s a plot point for more Skywalker babies and his fall to the DS. So they see Rey as finally getting a female lead and preemptively started yelling because of those past mistakes. Which nobody here wants that either and we’d be out the door if that went down. But having listened to the filmmakers and knowing that LF is predominantly run by a female led executive team, it’s likely they have the same concerns and what’s planned won’t make those same mistakes.

Also just my anecdotal experience as a most of the time lurker (only active here), but the SW fandom as a whole comes across as pretty second wave in terms of its feminism. And just like fandom, there’s always been a problem in feminism with gatekeeping. So you hear that if you think Rey will so much as have a civil chat with the bad guy, let alone have hot Force sex with him, you’re both a bad fan and a bad feminist. Some of it is also the classic social conservatism and policing of what women can and cannot do under the guise of empowerment. Hence the “Rey shouldn’t do ______ because she’s a role model” comments.
@snufkin

I've been trying not to think about the hot Force sex aspect of this whole thing, but every now and then a comment on here reminds me of it. And now it's on my mind. At work. LOL Razz

I think that there's this idea that once a woman has reproduced, she's done. She'll have served her biological purpose and she'll be too busy for anything else after that.
Characterwise, we have Leia, who had a kid and still got s*** done. Although maybe this is a bad example since she might not have invested enough in said kid? Padme literally gave birth and died. I'm convinced that Rey has to be the first to reproduce with a Skywalker, live, and continue to kick a** Very Happy
@Cowgirlsamurai

That would be the perfect chance to introduce the kiddos from the EU! A whole kicka** family of Skywalkers Very Happy
@nite0wl29

Like "Jacen Solo" who looks like Adam Driver? Laughing

Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - Page 37 Images10
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Post by nite0wl29 on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:51 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@nite0wl29 wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@snufkin wrote:They’re stuck on that idea because George Lucas made Carrie Fisher go diets and wear a gold bikini and turned a bada** 14 year old warrior queen with a girl gang into the Bad Boy’s tragic love interest who’s a plot point for more Skywalker babies and his fall to the DS. So they see Rey as finally getting a female lead and preemptively started yelling because of those past mistakes. Which nobody here wants that either and we’d be out the door if that went down. But having listened to the filmmakers and knowing that LF is predominantly run by a female led executive team, it’s likely they have the same concerns and what’s planned won’t make those same mistakes.

Also just my anecdotal experience as a most of the time lurker (only active here), but the SW fandom as a whole comes across as pretty second wave in terms of its feminism. And just like fandom, there’s always been a problem in feminism with gatekeeping. So you hear that if you think Rey will so much as have a civil chat with the bad guy, let alone have hot Force sex with him, you’re both a bad fan and a bad feminist. Some of it is also the classic social conservatism and policing of what women can and cannot do under the guise of empowerment. Hence the “Rey shouldn’t do ______ because she’s a role model” comments.
@snufkin

I've been trying not to think about the hot Force sex aspect of this whole thing, but every now and then a comment on here reminds me of it. And now it's on my mind. At work. LOL Razz

I think that there's this idea that once a woman has reproduced, she's done. She'll have served her biological purpose and she'll be too busy for anything else after that.
Characterwise, we have Leia, who had a kid and still got s*** done. Although maybe this is a bad example since she might not have invested enough in said kid? Padme literally gave birth and died. I'm convinced that Rey has to be the first to reproduce with a Skywalker, live, and continue to kick a** Very Happy
@Cowgirlsamurai

That would be the perfect chance to introduce the kiddos from the EU! A whole kicka** family of Skywalkers Very Happy
@nite0wl29

Like "Jacen Solo" who looks like Adam Driver? Laughing

Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - Page 37 Images10
@Cowgirlsamurai

Holy cow!! He does!
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Post by DarthRen on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 4:11 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@nite0wl29 wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@snufkin wrote:They’re stuck on that idea because George Lucas made Carrie Fisher go diets and wear a gold bikini and turned a bada** 14 year old warrior queen with a girl gang into the Bad Boy’s tragic love interest who’s a plot point for more Skywalker babies and his fall to the DS. So they see Rey as finally getting a female lead and preemptively started yelling because of those past mistakes. Which nobody here wants that either and we’d be out the door if that went down. But having listened to the filmmakers and knowing that LF is predominantly run by a female led executive team, it’s likely they have the same concerns and what’s planned won’t make those same mistakes.

Also just my anecdotal experience as a most of the time lurker (only active here), but the SW fandom as a whole comes across as pretty second wave in terms of its feminism. And just like fandom, there’s always been a problem in feminism with gatekeeping. So you hear that if you think Rey will so much as have a civil chat with the bad guy, let alone have hot Force sex with him, you’re both a bad fan and a bad feminist. Some of it is also the classic social conservatism and policing of what women can and cannot do under the guise of empowerment. Hence the “Rey shouldn’t do ______ because she’s a role model” comments.
@snufkin

I've been trying not to think about the hot Force sex aspect of this whole thing, but every now and then a comment on here reminds me of it. And now it's on my mind. At work. LOL Razz

I think that there's this idea that once a woman has reproduced, she's done. She'll have served her biological purpose and she'll be too busy for anything else after that.
Characterwise, we have Leia, who had a kid and still got s*** done. Although maybe this is a bad example since she might not have invested enough in said kid? Padme literally gave birth and died. I'm convinced that Rey has to be the first to reproduce with a Skywalker, live, and continue to kick a** Very Happy
@Cowgirlsamurai

That would be the perfect chance to introduce the kiddos from the EU! A whole kicka** family of Skywalkers Very Happy
@nite0wl29

Like "Jacen Solo" who looks like Adam Driver? Laughing

Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - Page 37 Images10
@Cowgirlsamurai

Wow.

That's it. Rey is Kylo's sister ... mystery solved.
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Post by SkyStar on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 4:15 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@nite0wl29 wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@snufkin wrote:They’re stuck on that idea because George Lucas made Carrie Fisher go diets and wear a gold bikini and turned a bada** 14 year old warrior queen with a girl gang into the Bad Boy’s tragic love interest who’s a plot point for more Skywalker babies and his fall to the DS. So they see Rey as finally getting a female lead and preemptively started yelling because of those past mistakes. Which nobody here wants that either and we’d be out the door if that went down. But having listened to the filmmakers and knowing that LF is predominantly run by a female led executive team, it’s likely they have the same concerns and what’s planned won’t make those same mistakes.

Also just my anecdotal experience as a most of the time lurker (only active here), but the SW fandom as a whole comes across as pretty second wave in terms of its feminism. And just like fandom, there’s always been a problem in feminism with gatekeeping. So you hear that if you think Rey will so much as have a civil chat with the bad guy, let alone have hot Force sex with him, you’re both a bad fan and a bad feminist. Some of it is also the classic social conservatism and policing of what women can and cannot do under the guise of empowerment. Hence the “Rey shouldn’t do ______ because she’s a role model” comments.
@snufkin

I've been trying not to think about the hot Force sex aspect of this whole thing, but every now and then a comment on here reminds me of it. And now it's on my mind. At work. LOL Razz

I think that there's this idea that once a woman has reproduced, she's done. She'll have served her biological purpose and she'll be too busy for anything else after that.
Characterwise, we have Leia, who had a kid and still got s*** done. Although maybe this is a bad example since she might not have invested enough in said kid? Padme literally gave birth and died. I'm convinced that Rey has to be the first to reproduce with a Skywalker, live, and continue to kick a** Very Happy
@Cowgirlsamurai

That would be the perfect chance to introduce the kiddos from the EU! A whole kicka** family of Skywalkers Very Happy
@nite0wl29

Like "Jacen Solo" who looks like Adam Driver? Laughing

Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - Page 37 Images10
@Cowgirlsamurai

Wow.

That's it. Rey is Kylo's sister ... mystery solved.
@DarthRen

Yup, twins confirmed. Smile
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Post by snufkin on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 4:16 pm

@cowgirlsamurai - if the ground split open just from their couple's fight (which it totally was, no wonder poor Finn was 3rd wheeling and she gave Kylo a look like she was going to throw a plate at his head), just imagine the possibilities, hahaha!  Naw, that's when @gemini first pointed out to the choker shots from the fight which were part of Ava DuVernay's suggestions to JJ about how to improve that sequence, a lot of us started looking at the individual shots/images. Which holy sh*t, a lot of recognized those type of facial expressions for finding the Force from, uh, life experience. And the identical close up shots Hitchcock used for Gregory Peck and Ingrid Bergman in Spellbound to show the lightning bolt of love/lust/dark psychological bonding that happens between their characters.

@RandomObserver - I'd absolute bet that part of Carrie Fisher's participation and Leia's role in the ST is starting to kick in the door for showing that women don't retire to the domestic sphere when they become mothers. If anything, the responsibility of being a mother means that the stakes are even higher for them because somebody else is dependent on them. Watching the trailer, she sure as Hell looks like her mom, especially in the connecting through the Force parts with Kylo. If you've watched Bright Lights,  the documentary about their lives and relationships, you know that Debbie went through Hell thanks to the Hollywood Studio system, entertainment industry, 3 sh*tty husbands, bankruptcy, and kept on working her a** off because she had children and bills to pay. She wasn't going to let anybody steal her of her dignity or self-respect. Both her daughter and granddaughter are in this movie and I'd sure as f**k bet that one of the subtexts for Leia's storyline is a tribute to the type of woman and mother Debbie Reynolds was*. Which BTW, one of my ongoing irritation with a lot of the "feminist" discussion around the ST is the fact that you had both Carrie and Dame Harriet Walter show up grey hair, wrinkles, and giving no f**ks in TFA, when Hollywood likes to pretend that women don't exist after they turn 26. Or how there are just women everywhere, doing their jobs and living their own private lives as part of the world being shown. Because other than Luke's aunt who got killed off pretty fast, that wasn't in the movie I remember seeing as a kid.

There's been some dumb a** comments and knee-jerk reactions around whatever happened with Ben where people either imply that Leia put the needs of the galaxy ahead of her child. Which no, it's clear from Claudia Grey's novel and TFA that she tried her best with Ben, the same way Bail and Breha did with her. And when it came to Force stuff, normal Force stuff, not even the Raw Ancient Power, she was out of her depth and sought out Luke because she thought he had the expertise to help Ben. Which she now realizes was the wrong choice, that what would've been best for Ben would've been to stay with her and Han and work it through together as a family. Both the Force stuff and all of the secret/repressed family history about her biological father. But that's so typical for what women face, more scrutiny and judgment no matter what choices you make for how you're going to raise your children. Meanwhile, nobody ever says that about men (how many bad father comments have been out there about Han or Vader?).  I also don't think it's a coincidence that LF has made a point in the business press to talk about how they've changed their company culture to be more supportive of women when it comes to Work-Life balance. They don't want their employees to cut themselves off from their personal lives, families, and outside relationships, so why would they want that for Rey?

* It's a given TLJ will be dedicted to Carrie, but I won't be surprised if it's dedicated to both her and Debbie. Or if Debbie is thanked in the credits.


Last edited by snufkin on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by DarthRen on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 4:27 pm

@vaderito wrote:@DarthRen yes, it was JJ Stormborn of the House Abrams, First of His Name, the Unfired, King of Adolescents and Fan Boys, Khaaan of the Great Geek Sea, Breaker of Reylated Chains, Father of Reylo.

EDIT: Credit to @Darth_Awakened for suggesting Khan instead of Khal
@vaderito

Game of Thrones as an inspiration.

What better unexpected way of having belonging and family than Kylo. The guy she fought, is supposed to hate. Resistance is predictable and so would be Luke.
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