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Post by Darth Rowan on Sat 11 Nov 2017, 12:01 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:

I’m of the largely unsubstantiated opinion that she has always been a low-key Force user. Nothing overt. But she was too good for something else to not be at play. Kind of like Leia in the young Leia book. But the Force wasn’t really awake in her until she came into proximity with Kylo/Ben. Then it roared awake...signaling both Kylo and Snoke.

I’ve got some other thoughts, but I need to organize them!
@PalmettoBlue

FWIW, the Forces of Destiny cartoons with Rey on Jakku strongly hinted that she was using the Force a little bit without realizing it.

Interestingly, in the Leia PoA book, Leia also uses the Force at a key point without realizing it. I think those are both good examples of a Force-sensitive person tapping into the Force without being fully "awake" yet.

@ISeeAnIsland Yeah, that makes perfect sense. We talked about that back in the day when TFA first came out. The fact that Rey was so good at scavenging, so good mechanically, the languages thing etc., is probably due to her using the Force without intending to or realizing it.

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Post by PalmettoBlue on Sat 11 Nov 2017, 12:25 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:

I’m of the largely unsubstantiated opinion that she has always been a low-key Force user. Nothing overt. But she was too good for something else to not be at play. Kind of like Leia in the young Leia book. But the Force wasn’t really awake in her until she came into proximity with Kylo/Ben. Then it roared awake...signaling both Kylo and Snoke.

I’ve got some other thoughts, but I need to organize them!
@PalmettoBlue

FWIW, the Forces of Destiny cartoons with Rey on Jakku strongly hinted that she was using the Force a little bit without realizing it.

Interestingly, in the Leia PoA book, Leia also uses the Force at a key point without realizing it. I think those are both good examples of a Force-sensitive person tapping into the Force without being fully "awake" yet.
@ISeeAnIsland

I was thinking of both of those examples, actually, especially the one with Leia. I think I’ve read somewhere that Leia’s Force abilities manifest in her strong will and steadfast nature. I cannot remember where, but I know I didn’t make that up on my own.
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Post by panki on Sat 11 Nov 2017, 12:56 pm

@PalmettoBlue wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:

I’m of the largely unsubstantiated opinion that she has always been a low-key Force user. Nothing overt. But she was too good for something else to not be at play. Kind of like Leia in the young Leia book. But the Force wasn’t really awake in her until she came into proximity with Kylo/Ben. Then it roared awake...signaling both Kylo and Snoke.

I’ve got some other thoughts, but I need to organize them!
@PalmettoBlue

FWIW, the Forces of Destiny cartoons with Rey on Jakku strongly hinted that she was using the Force a little bit without realizing it.

Interestingly, in the Leia PoA book, Leia also uses the Force at a key point without realizing it. I think those are both good examples of a Force-sensitive person tapping into the Force without being fully "awake" yet.
@ISeeAnIsland

I was thinking of both of those examples, actually, especially the one with Leia. I think I’ve read somewhere that Leia’s Force abilities manifest in her strong will and steadfast nature. I cannot remember where, but I know I didn’t make that up on my own.
@PalmettoBlue

Was it in the short story from the book 'From a Certain Point of View' where Yoda talks about why he wants to train Leia as a jedi?

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 11 Nov 2017, 1:33 pm

@Irina de France wrote:Catholic here: the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary is a dogma acknowledged by the Roman Catholic Church only. It's a concept that's been around for a very long time, but it's been acknowledged as a dogma in 1854 by pope Pius IX, way after Orthodox and Protestant Churches separated from Rome.

So thing is, Daisy is British, and if she is religious or has been raised in a religious family, chances are high that she's Protestant since that's what's dominant in the UK, and Protestant churches don't acknowledge the Immaculate Conception dogma, and the level of veneration towards the Virgin Mary definitely isn't as strong as in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. So that's where the confusion might come from.

This said, Our Lord Jesus Christ was an Immaculate Conception as well. Immaculate Conceptipn includes two things:

a) Jesus incarnated Himself without the mark of the Original Sin of course, because He is God, of course, and Mary was created without the mark of the Original Sin, being the Mother of God;

b) Both of them were virgin births.

So from a theological pov, saying that Anakin is an immaculate conception is inaccurate (because he wouldn't be such a freaking mess, good lord), and virgin birth would be the right term.

(Thus endeth the catechism class)

@Irina de France

As another Catholic jumping in, I don't believe St. Anne was a virgin when she gave birth to Mary. She and St. Joachim had been married for a while. The Virgin birth was a miracle limited to Christ alone. However, yes, Mary was the Immaculate Conception because she was born without Original Sin because she was destined to be the mother of Christ.

Back to SW, I didn't think that they would create another virgin birth/ made by the force baby, for the sheer fact that they had done it with Anakin and wouldn't want to repeat themselves.
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Post by PalmettoBlue on Sat 11 Nov 2017, 1:55 pm

@panki wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:

I’m of the largely unsubstantiated opinion that she has always been a low-key Force user. Nothing overt. But she was too good for something else to not be at play. Kind of like Leia in the young Leia book. But the Force wasn’t really awake in her until she came into proximity with Kylo/Ben. Then it roared awake...signaling both Kylo and Snoke.

I’ve got some other thoughts, but I need to organize them!
@PalmettoBlue

FWIW, the Forces of Destiny cartoons with Rey on Jakku strongly hinted that she was using the Force a little bit without realizing it.

Interestingly, in the Leia PoA book, Leia also uses the Force at a key point without realizing it. I think those are both good examples of a Force-sensitive person tapping into the Force without being fully "awake" yet.
@ISeeAnIsland

I was thinking of both of those examples, actually, especially the one with Leia. I think I’ve read somewhere that Leia’s Force abilities manifest in her strong will and steadfast nature. I cannot remember where, but I know I didn’t make that up on my own.
@PalmettoBlue

Was it in the short story from the book 'From a Certain Point of View' where Yoda talks about why he wants to train Leia as a jedi?
@panki

I haven’t read all of those stories, so I doubt it. This is driving me around the bend that I can’t remember!
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Post by kroi on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:15 pm

Saw this elsewhere...
"On the latest MSW podcast (203) Jason mentioned that people who'd seen TLJ often became more critical of TFA. So clearly there are people who have seen it. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/"

Did anyone here hear this, and is it true? If so what do y'all think it means?
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:21 pm

@kroi wrote:Saw this elsewhere...
"On the latest MSW podcast (203) Jason mentioned that people who'd seen TLJ often became more critical of TFA. So clearly there are people who have seen it. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/"

Did anyone here hear this, and is it true? If so what do y'all think it means?
@kroi

This is just from my gut, but I think it means that Rian has completely jumped into the deep end of the pool and has done risky and great things as a result, and that JJ didn't take it far enough.


Last edited by SoloSideCousin on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kroi on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:46 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@kroi wrote:Saw this elsewhere...
"On the latest MSW podcast (203) Jason mentioned that people who'd seen TLJ often became more critical of TFA. So clearly there are people who have seen it. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/"

Did anyone here hear this, and is it true? If so what do y'all think it means?
@kroi

This is just from my gut, but I think it means that Rian has completely jumped into the deep end of the pool and has done risky and great things as a result, and that JJ didn't it far enough.
@SoloSideCousin
Haha! Mine too!
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 7:24 pm

Or TFA is misleading in some way, were people might feel duped by what they saw.. Reywalker cough cough...
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Post by Kylo Rey on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:04 pm

So had a listen of the MSW podcast (took 1hr 48min, they ramble SO much, had it on in the background really), but here's what Jason had to say in response to the other podcaster talking about how Lucasfilm must be really confident about TLJ to release news of RJ directing his own trilogy a month early:

Well, and then, the other thing is, FWIW, the other thing I kinda noticed what happened was - once people started seeing TLJ - not in a way that was just like whatever the last thing that's old sucks, they started getting way more critical of Force Awakens after TLJ. Which made me go: "Last Jedi is the one they [Lucasfilm] really wanted to make when they started this trilogy." They're getting the story they wanted.

He was definitely speaking in a positive tone about this. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/
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Post by vaderito on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:08 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:So had a listen of the MSW podcast (took 1hr 48min, they ramble SO much, had it on in the background really), but here's what Jason had to say in response to the other podcaster talking about how Lucasfilm must be really confident about TLJ to release news of RJ directing his own trilogy a month early:

Well, and then, the other thing is, FWIW, the other thing I kinda noticed what happened was - once people started seeing TLJ - not in a way that was just like whatever the last thing that's old sucks, they started getting way more critical of Force Awakens after TLJ. Which made me go: "Last Jedi is the one they [Lucasfilm] really wanted to make when they started this trilogy." They're getting the story they wanted.

He was definitely speaking in a positive tone about this. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/
@Kylo Rey

I swear that Jason is Adam driver. It takes them 3 hours to get to the point. Just look at that sentence. So Adam. lol! lol! lol!
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Post by Guest on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:23 pm

Hmm, I guess the pressure is on for JJ (and his co-scriptwriter) then!

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Post by Tex on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:38 pm

KrazyForKylo wrote:Hmm, I guess the pressure is on for JJ (and his co-scriptwriter) then!
@KrazyForKylo

My thoughts exactly. JJ is going to have to really step it up then. At least he's got a second go at it.

On a side note. I see JJ watching the final cut of TLJ and turning to Rian and saying, "You think you know Reylo? Hold my drink." Razz
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Post by Kylo Rey on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:40 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:So had a listen of the MSW podcast (took 1hr 48min, they ramble SO much, had it on in the background really), but here's what Jason had to say in response to the other podcaster talking about how Lucasfilm must be really confident about TLJ to release news of RJ directing his own trilogy a month early:

Well, and then, the other thing is, FWIW, the other thing I kinda noticed what happened was - once people started seeing TLJ - not in a way that was just like whatever the last thing that's old sucks, they started getting way more critical of Force Awakens after TLJ. Which made me go: "Last Jedi is the one they [Lucasfilm] really wanted to make when they started this trilogy." They're getting the story they wanted.

He was definitely speaking in a positive tone about this. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/
@Kylo Rey

I swear that Jason is Adam driver. It takes them 3 hours to get to the point. Just look at that sentence. So Adam. lol! lol! lol!
@vaderito

And I even cut out a few words he kept on repeating!
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Post by Guest on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:54 pm

@Tex wrote:
KrazyForKylo wrote:Hmm, I guess the pressure is on for JJ (and his co-scriptwriter) then!
@KrazyForKylo

My thoughts exactly. JJ is going to have to really step it up then. At least he's got a second go at it.

On a side note. I see JJ watching the final cut of TLJ and turning to Rian and saying, "You think you know Reylo? Hold my drink." Razz
@Tex

lol, I can totally imagine that exchange between Rian and JJ Very Happy But I like to think JJ was the one who corrupted Rian in the first place! Wink

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Post by DarthRen on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:23 pm

@Tex wrote:
KrazyForKylo wrote:Hmm, I guess the pressure is on for JJ (and his co-scriptwriter) then!
@KrazyForKylo

My thoughts exactly. JJ is going to have to really step it up then. At least he's got a second go at it.

On a side note. I see JJ watching the final cut of TLJ and turning to Rian and saying, "You think you know Reylo? Hold my drink." Razz
@Tex

JJ's actual words to Rian.

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Post by Kessel on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:43 pm

@kroi wrote:Saw this elsewhere...
"On the latest MSW podcast (203) Jason mentioned that people who'd seen TLJ often became more critical of TFA. So clearly there are people who have seen it. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/"

Did anyone here hear this, and is it true? If so what do y'all think it means?
@kroi

From my (very) limited vantage point, based on what we've heard about TLJ, I think it makes sense that people who have seen it would be more critical of TFA in retrospect. If that's true, that's really exciting.

TFA had its good points, especially when it came to the new characters, but it was hella derivative of all the OT movies. Honestly, the only truly intriguing and innovative part of it for me was Kylo. Without him, I'd still be excited about SW and the next movies in the ST, but definitely not on this level. If TLJ is innovative with not only Rey and Kylo, but beyond that, what fantastic news.

I understand why TPTB were so careful with TFA, but I'm glad we're getting more confirmation that they're likely taking a new route.

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Post by reylo1992 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 10:29 pm

@Kessel wrote:
@kroi wrote:Saw this elsewhere...
"On the latest MSW podcast (203) Jason mentioned that people who'd seen TLJ often became more critical of TFA. So clearly there are people who have seen it. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/11/now-podcasting-episode-203-rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-coming/"

Did anyone here hear this, and is it true? If so what do y'all think it means?
@kroi

From my (very) limited vantage point, based on what we've heard about TLJ, I think it makes sense that people who have seen it would be more critical of TFA in retrospect. If that's true, that's really exciting.

TFA had its good points, especially when it came to the new characters, but it was hella derivative of all the OT movies. Honestly, the only truly intriguing and innovative part of it for me was Kylo. Without him, I'd still be excited about SW and the next movies in the ST, but definitely not on this level. If TLJ is innovative with not only Rey and Kylo, but beyond that, what fantastic news.

I understand why TPTB were so careful with TFA, but I'm glad we're getting more confirmation that they're likely taking a new route.
@Kessel

I am totally expecting the "J.J. backlash" after TLJ with nasty comments like "Rian did sooo much better than J.J.", as if Rian's work was coming out of nothing. Sure, Jan!

J.J. made such so an amazing that 2 years after, there are still people thinking that TFA is a poor remake of ANH, that Rey's parentage is all what matters, that she is a Skygirl and that Reylo doesn't exist. Well done J.J. because "this is not going to go" the way they think.

TFA is a good movie just for this reason: keeping people blind although everything is under their nose. I saw the movie in a totally new way after I came on the forum. Which random viewer would think that eviiill villain Kylo Ren is actually adark version of a Prince(ss) in distress?
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