The Reproductive Imperative

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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 9:07 am

@vaderito wrote:Speaking of chastity, there's absolutely no doubt that PT Jedi made a chastity vow. Anakin's speech about ban on attachment/possession but encouragement to show compassion is that in other words. It's only that cartoons and books loosened up on it a bit (we'll look away if you only boink but not if you get emotionally attached, including marriage and kids, then you are fired from the Order) but movie canon is the only canon that matters. GA doesn't know and doesn't care about books, CB and TV shows that exist only to pander to hardcore fans. Whatever happens in those sources is "nice to know" but not essential.

So Reproductive Imperative isn't just about Kylo surviving this but being unbound of Jedi traditions if he chooses to go back to the Light. believers in Skymom think that Luke has already been a Jedi Knight as opposed to Jedi Warrior Monk that PT Jedi were, but you don't do such change off screen. If there's to be a change it's gonna be done on screen thanks to "2 halves of the light and the dark".
@vaderito

GL never saw the Jedi as celibate

Wednesday, 15 May, 2002, 17:36 GMT 18:36 UK
But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime, Jedi were permitted to have sex.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 9:13 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@vaderito wrote:Speaking of chastity, there's absolutely no doubt that PT Jedi made a chastity vow. Anakin's speech about ban on attachment/possession but encouragement to show compassion is that in other words. It's only that cartoons and books loosened up on it a bit (we'll look away if you only boink but not if you get emotionally attached, including marriage and kids, then you are fired from the Order) but movie canon is the only canon that matters. GA doesn't know and doesn't care about books, CB and TV shows that exist only to pander to hardcore fans. Whatever happens in those sources is "nice to know" but not essential.

So Reproductive Imperative isn't just about Kylo surviving this but being unbound of Jedi traditions if he chooses to go back to the Light. believers in Skymom think that Luke has already been a Jedi Knight as opposed to Jedi Warrior Monk that PT Jedi were, but you don't do such change off screen. If there's to be a change it's gonna be done on screen thanks to "2 halves of the light and the dark".
@vaderito

GL never saw the Jedi as celibate

Wednesday, 15 May, 2002, 17:36 GMT 18:36 UK
But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime, Jedi were permitted to have sex.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm
@spacebaby45678

Sooo, one night stands are allowed.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by vaderito on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 9:13 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:  

GL never saw the Jedi as celibate

Wednesday, 15 May, 2002, 17:36 GMT 18:36 UK
But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime, Jedi were permitted to have sex.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm
@spacebaby45678

Yes, that's what he says off screen. The movie didn't convey that message. Most people don't follow interviews. My point is that GL is wiggling out of something that simply didn't come across on the screen. he didn't have to tell us but show us. And it doesn't matter whether they can have sex (he realized that Virgin Obi Wan didn't cut it with fanboys), they are forbidden to procreate. They multiply by passing the knowledge. So what's the fear?

@Cowgirlsamurai yep and that just shows that he was really retracting under backlash rather than really having it set up like that. The Jedi were obviously monks. That didn't sit well with fans. he had to retract off screen but not on screen. So that's that. TCW followed suit with Obi Wan and Satine and then we got Vos the Jedi Ladies Man and finally Ahsoka the Jedi but not Jedi Whatever Plot Convenience For the Future.

But yes, the loop hole is that there could be a one night stand baby girl. lol!
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 9:27 am

@Cowgirlsamurai

Yes.. lol

@vaderito

GL says this in 2002 three years before ROTS, so I think he must be commentating on Anakin & Padme during AOTC, so he is saying that Anakin's mistake is his possessiveness of Padme. I am not even sure he is commentating on Obi Wan at this point. And, for me we always have to take into consideration what GL is saying especially because of his continued involvement in shaping the world of Star Wars after the PT

My comment was originally about Rey and how the island of Achto and it's inhabitants are a metaphor for Rey, nature, femininity and Rey's subconscious and ultimately her journey as a hero. I was originally thinking about Luke & Vader's symbolical subtext is about Father/son relationship & Castration as a fear in ESB. So what is Rey's fear how is TLJ going to deal with her subconscious fears and longings, in the feminine context.

So Rey should be dealing with "Mother/bad mother" and fear of re abandonment ( my guess ) a fear of re abandonment will block any feelings of love or the idea of falling in love ( again only my guess )
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by vaderito on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 9:45 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai


GL says this in 2002 three years before ROTS,

@spacebaby45678

AOTC novelization came out before the premiere was on May 12. By that time, people were buzzing about celibate Jedi and not in a good way. The premiere just confirmed the suspicion raised by novelization. Lucas had 3 days to explain why his point wasn't coming across. It's a retcon, plain and simple. Anidala tragedy absolutely does not work within half-baked "you can bang but you can't attach/posses" retcon. He had one idea that's on the screen and then had to adjust because of negativity brewing.

Yes, I'm aware that retcon is popular cause it feeds Reywalker and Reynobi fantasies and allowed for all those romances in EU. But it absolutely does not work in the context of Anakin's fall. At all. And I've never been a fan of monastic Jedi anyway, but I prefer that film-makers stick to their guns rather than change tune and go against what's clearly the screen just because 3 loud fans got upset. Oh, BTW, he removed Jar Jar from sequels due to fandom backlash and sequels - shocker of shocks - never made as much money as the Jar Jar movie nor are particularly better thought of. So he not only lost integrity but also money.

That said, this man absolutely should multiply and not by passing the knowledge:



H-beating H-beating H-beating H-beating
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:00 am

@vaderito
I understand your point of view.

Reproduction

Anakin's birth - reproduction based on darkside magic
Anakin & Padme - despite tragedy based on love leading to reproductions - the Twins
Han & Leia - passion & love leading to reproduction - Ben Solo
The Clones - mechanical reproduction

I don't think Rey is a clone and will discover that she has no family at all or that she came to be through mechanical reproduction or dark side magic . The contrast in Star Wars saga Leads me to believe that Rey's struggle with reproduction and what leads to it "love" may be that her parents did not love each other nor did they love her. Maybe she is the product of a forced political marriage.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 11:00 am

@vaderito wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:  

GL never saw the Jedi as celibate

Wednesday, 15 May, 2002, 17:36 GMT 18:36 UK
But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime, Jedi were permitted to have sex.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm
@spacebaby45678

Yes, that's what he says off screen. The movie didn't convey that message. Most people don't follow interviews. My point is that GL is wiggling out of something that simply didn't come across on the screen. he didn't have to tell us but show us. And it doesn't matter whether they can have sex (he realized that Virgin Obi Wan didn't cut it with fanboys), they are forbidden to procreate. They multiply by passing the knowledge. So what's the fear?

@Cowgirlsamurai yep and that just shows that he was really retracting under backlash rather than really having it set up like that. The Jedi were obviously monks. That didn't sit well with fans. he had to retract off screen but not on screen. So that's that. TCW followed suit with Obi Wan and Satine and then we got Vos the Jedi Ladies Man and finally Ahsoka the Jedi but not Jedi Whatever Plot Convenience For the Future.

But yes, the loop hole is that there could be a one night stand baby girl. lol!
@vaderito

I agree with you here. GL weakened his drama by basically saying flings and one night stands were okay. They were warrior monks, and he should have owned it, because Anakin breaking the vow of chastity would have brought much more drama, Thorn Birds level drama, with it.

Also, to @spacebaby5678's post, I just want to say that I have been taught by some pretty awesome nuns, who were not uptight or persnickety, but instead were very happy with their choice of prayer, service and community, so I don't think that have to portray them that way. I think it's possible that those nuns don't like Luke because he is messed up and super unbalanced, and it's also possible those nuns have some wisdom to impart to Rey.

However, I very much agree that RJ is brilliant to have nuns on scene at Ahch-to, because though they might be okay giving their lives to the Force and nothing else, Rey is not going to want to go that way.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 11:03 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:  

GL never saw the Jedi as celibate

Wednesday, 15 May, 2002, 17:36 GMT 18:36 UK
But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime, Jedi were permitted to have sex.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm
@spacebaby45678

Yes, that's what he says off screen. The movie didn't convey that message. Most people don't follow interviews. My point is that GL is wiggling out of something that simply didn't come across on the screen. he didn't have to tell us but show us. And it doesn't matter whether they can have sex (he realized that Virgin Obi Wan didn't cut it with fanboys), they are forbidden to procreate. They multiply by passing the knowledge. So what's the fear?

@Cowgirlsamurai yep and that just shows that he was really retracting under backlash rather than really having it set up like that. The Jedi were obviously monks. That didn't sit well with fans. he had to retract off screen but not on screen. So that's that. TCW followed suit with Obi Wan and Satine and then we got Vos the Jedi Ladies Man and finally Ahsoka the Jedi but not Jedi Whatever Plot Convenience For the Future.

But yes, the loop hole is that there could be a one night stand baby girl. lol!
@vaderito

I agree with you here. GL weakened his drama by basically saying flings and one night stands were okay. They were warrior monks, and he should have owned it, because Anakin breaking the vow of chastity would have brought much more drama, Thorn Birds level drama, with it.

Also, to @spacebaby5678's post, I just want to say that I have been taught by some pretty awesome nuns, who were not uptight or persnickety, but instead were very happy with their choice of prayer, service and community, so I don't think that have to portray them that way. I think it's possible that those nuns don't like Luke because he is messed up and super unbalanced, and it's also possible those nuns have some wisdom to impart to Rey.

However, I very much agree that RJ is brilliant to have nuns on scene at Ahch-to, because though they might be okay giving their lives to the Force and nothing else, Rey is not going to want to go that way.
@SoloSideCousin

Sorry, but I don't think all nuns are uptight or persnickety in real life.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by IoJovi on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 11:11 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:  

GL never saw the Jedi as celibate

Wednesday, 15 May, 2002, 17:36 GMT 18:36 UK
But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime, Jedi were permitted to have sex.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm
@spacebaby45678

Yes, that's what he says off screen. The movie didn't convey that message. Most people don't follow interviews. My point is that GL is wiggling out of something that simply didn't come across on the screen. he didn't have to tell us but show us. And it doesn't matter whether they can have sex (he realized that Virgin Obi Wan didn't cut it with fanboys), they are forbidden to procreate. They multiply by passing the knowledge. So what's the fear?

@Cowgirlsamurai yep and that just shows that he was really retracting under backlash rather than really having it set up like that. The Jedi were obviously monks. That didn't sit well with fans. he had to retract off screen but not on screen. So that's that. TCW followed suit with Obi Wan and Satine and then we got Vos the Jedi Ladies Man and finally Ahsoka the Jedi but not Jedi Whatever Plot Convenience For the Future.  

But yes, the loop hole is that there could be a one night stand baby girl. lol!
@vaderito

I agree with you here. GL weakened his drama by basically saying flings and one night stands were okay. They were warrior monks, and he should have owned it, because Anakin breaking the vow of chastity would have brought much more drama, Thorn Birds level drama, with it.

Also, to @spacebaby5678's post, I just want to say that I have been taught by some pretty awesome nuns, who were not uptight or persnickety, but instead were very happy with their choice of prayer, service and community, so I don't think that have to portray them that way. I think it's possible that those nuns don't like Luke because he is messed up and super unbalanced, and it's also possible those nuns have some wisdom to impart to Rey.

However, I very much agree that RJ is brilliant to have nuns on scene at Ahch-to, because though they might be okay giving their lives to the Force and nothing else, Rey is not going to want to go that way.
@SoloSideCousin

I personally don't think it was George Lucas's intent to make the implication that while attachments were not okay within the Jedi order, one-night stands were well within reason.  Still, it's never stated that sex is forbidden - only bonding with someone, so I can see why some would make that conclusion by omission.  On the flip side, the Jedi council are capable of some pretty ridiculous decisions (I mean, the PT's sole focus was their ridiculous decisions leading straight to their downfall), so there is that.  

On a separate note, I am so in love though with the idea that @spacebaby45678 put forth about the nuns being in direct contrast the choices Rey will ultimately make.  I tend to gloss over the creature stuff as it's mildly interesting, but it doesn't grab me the way certain other aspects of SW do.  That's why I'm glad to finally see these specific creatures involved with the central narrative of this story.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by snufkin on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 12:17 pm

Space nuns make me think that there will be a musical number along the lines of "How do you solve a problem like Maria?" except that it will be about Rey (just please no, that doesn't mean that Luke is Cap'n Von Trapp).

And uh, Hell yes a character played by Ewan McGregor and Sir Alec Guinness (ever seen photos of him as a young man?) got a lot of attention from the ladies. The PT is likely the only movies during that era of McGregor's career where he didn't do full frontal nudity, which for a more family friendly audience. But still, you don't put somebody like that and not have them be sexy as Hell. The whole thing with McGregor is that he's just so cheeky, playful, and curious (the only other actor who comes close is Gael Garcia Bernal) that it just comes across anyways. Like I still have no clue why Padme was throwing her panties at a dumb jock with pretty hair and meanwhile, you have Obi-Wan around too.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Irina de France on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 12:24 pm

All right, honestly, first thing that crossed my mind about the theory that the nuns merely tolerate Lule because they don't like having a guy around:

LOLOLOLOL THEY'RE GONNA HATE KYLO SO MUCH LOLOLOLOL

Great, now I'm imagining @vaderito"s water fall scene with Kylo showing off his eight pack with Rey gaping at him... only to have the nuns attack him.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 12:43 pm

@Irina de France wrote:All right, honestly, first thing that crossed my mind about the theory that the nuns merely tolerate Lule because they don't like having a guy around:

LOLOLOLOL THEY'RE GONNA HATE KYLO SO MUCH LOLOLOLOL

Great, now I'm imagining @vaderito"s water fall scene with Kylo showing off his eight pack with Rey gaping at him... only to have the nuns attack him.
@Irina de France

NEW HEADCANON!!! cheers
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by snufkin on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 12:45 pm

Space nuns gonna hit him with a ruler
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 12:48 pm

@Irina de France wrote:All right, honestly, first thing that crossed my mind about the theory that the nuns merely tolerate Lule because they don't like having a guy around:

LOLOLOLOL THEY'RE GONNA HATE KYLO SO MUCH LOLOLOLOL

Great, now I'm imagining @vaderito"s water fall scene with Kylo showing off his eight pack with Rey gaping at him... only to have the nuns attack him.
@Irina de France



The nuns have to speak in a sense for Rey's hesitancy regarding Kylo's masculinity,aggression
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 12:57 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:All right, honestly, first thing that crossed my mind about the theory that the nuns merely tolerate Lule because they don't like having a guy around:

LOLOLOLOL THEY'RE GONNA HATE KYLO SO MUCH LOLOLOLOL

Great, now I'm imagining @vaderito"s water fall scene with Kylo showing off his eight pack with Rey gaping at him... only to have the nuns attack him.
@Irina de France



The nuns have to speak in a sense for Rey's hesitancy regarding Kylo's masculinity,aggression
@spacebaby45678

I'd also think that it means that it's not only going to be Luke give Rey and Kylo's UST the side-eye...there's going to be a bunch of nuns doing it, too.

I'm also wondering if (unless there's a FO attack) if the hut explosion ends up getting the humans + Chewie kicked off of Ahch-To.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by IoJovi on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 1:02 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:All right, honestly, first thing that crossed my mind about the theory that the nuns merely tolerate Lule because they don't like having a guy around:

LOLOLOLOL THEY'RE GONNA HATE KYLO SO MUCH LOLOLOLOL

Great, now I'm imagining @vaderito"s water fall scene with Kylo showing off his eight pack with Rey gaping at him... only to have the nuns attack him.
@Irina de France



The nuns have to speak in a sense for Rey's hesitancy regarding Kylo's masculinity,aggression
@spacebaby45678

I'd also think that it means that it's not only going to be Luke give Rey and Kylo's UST the side-eye...there's going to be a bunch of nuns doing it, too.

I'm also wondering if (unless there's a FO attack) if the hut explosion ends up getting the humans + Chewie kicked off of Ahch-To.
@ISeeAnIsland

I am LOVING those nuns more and more with every post. Holy sith. They just went from oh god I hope they don't take up too much screen time to yes please may I have another.... Laughing

Bonus points if they're present for the hut explosion.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Irina de France on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 1:07 pm

They make the hut explode because Rey and Kylo are finding the Force or whatever... Twisted Evil
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 1:08 pm

@snufkin wrote:Space nuns make me think that there will be a musical number along the lines of "How do you solve a problem like Maria?" except that it will be about Rey (just please no, that doesn't mean that Luke is Cap'n Von Trapp).

And uh, Hell yes a character played by Ewan McGregor and Sir Alec Guinness (ever seen photos of him as a young man?) got a lot of attention from the ladies. The PT is likely the only movies during that era of McGregor's career where he didn't do full frontal nudity, which for a more family friendly audience. But still, you don't put somebody like that and not have them be sexy as Hell. The whole thing with McGregor is that he's just so cheeky, playful, and curious (the only other actor who comes close is Gael Garcia Bernal) that it just comes across anyways. Like I still have no clue why Padme was throwing her panties at a dumb jock with pretty hair and meanwhile, you have Obi-Wan around too.
@snufkin

No kidding! Before I even saw RPM, I basically knew that she and Anakin would eventually get together because of internet casting rumors, etc. However, I kept hoping that it would be an Arthurian love triangle thing where Obi-Wan was her true passionate love, but she had to marry Anakin because "it was the right thing", or something. (This is before I learned the "no attachment" rules in AOTC). And I swear, but think that they were afraid to have Padme and Obi-Wan interact very much (which was weird in the story because both were young and up-and-coming people) because once Ewan's chemistry clicked there would be no going back. Honestly,  even though they kept Padme and Obi-Wan apart, I still always wanted them together because that relationship made much more sense to me than the "mother imprint with sex" thing with Anakin/Padme.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 1:12 pm

And nuns supposedly live in those huts...
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by snufkin on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 1:15 pm

@SoloSideCousin - there's some great gag floating around Twitter about how you can tell that the PT was written by a man because no way in Hell would any sane heterosexual woman go for Mr "I hate sand" when Ewan McGregor is around. As a kid I thought it was a Camelot type situation just from what's implied by Obi-Wan's re-telling in the first movie and then realizing with the Vader dad reveal, that obviously there's no Mrs. Vader around so things went very tragically wrong.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 2:29 pm

I am pretty sure that GL wrote PT as a love triangle and then changed his mind.

3. Anakin falls to the dark side, in part, because of an Obi-Wan, Padme, Anakin love triangle! (Prequel Trilogy, Episodes I - III)

Lines like “I don’t want to hear any more about Obi-Wan”, and accusations such as “You’re with him! You brought him here to kill me!” sound a lot like a jealous husband’s tirade against a mutual (turned suspicious) “friend.” When Padme says she can’t follow him down this path, Anakin’s response is “Because of Obi-Wan?”

Is there any substance to this? According to Lucas biographer Dale Pollack there is. In his book, Skywalking, Pollack’s research revealed that there would “also be a torrid love triangle among the grown-up Queen (who will give birth to twins, Luke and Leia), Annakin [sic] Skywalker, and Ben Kenobi. The consequences of this love triangle are one of the great betrayals layered throughout the three prequels that have enormous impact on all of the major characters in the story.”


Another reason not to buy that GL intended in his "head" for the jedi to be celibate
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 2:56 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:I am pretty sure that GL wrote PT as a love triangle and then changed his mind.

3. Anakin falls to the dark side, in part, because of an Obi-Wan, Padme, Anakin love triangle! (Prequel Trilogy, Episodes I - III)

Lines like “I don’t want to hear any more about Obi-Wan”, and accusations such as “You’re with him! You brought him here to kill me!” sound a lot like a jealous husband’s tirade against a mutual (turned suspicious) “friend.” When Padme says she can’t follow him down this path, Anakin’s response is “Because of Obi-Wan?”

Is there any substance to this? According to Lucas biographer Dale Pollack there is. In his book, Skywalking, Pollack’s research revealed that there would “also be a torrid love triangle among the grown-up Queen (who will give birth to twins, Luke and Leia), Annakin [sic] Skywalker, and Ben Kenobi. The consequences of this love triangle are one of the great betrayals layered throughout the three prequels that have enormous impact on all of the major characters in the story.”


Another reason not to buy that GL intended in his "head" for the jedi to be celibate
@spacebaby45678

Not a huge fan of love triangles in general, but geez, that would have made for a much more compelling story, IMO.
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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by IoJovi on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 3:19 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:I am pretty sure that GL wrote PT as a love triangle and then changed his mind.

3. Anakin falls to the dark side, in part, because of an Obi-Wan, Padme, Anakin love triangle! (Prequel Trilogy, Episodes I - III)

Lines like “I don’t want to hear any more about Obi-Wan”, and accusations such as “You’re with him! You brought him here to kill me!” sound a lot like a jealous husband’s tirade against a mutual (turned suspicious) “friend.” When Padme says she can’t follow him down this path, Anakin’s response is “Because of Obi-Wan?”

Is there any substance to this? According to Lucas biographer Dale Pollack there is. In his book, Skywalking, Pollack’s research revealed that there would “also be a torrid love triangle among the grown-up Queen (who will give birth to twins, Luke and Leia), Annakin [sic] Skywalker, and Ben Kenobi. The consequences of this love triangle are one of the great betrayals layered throughout the three prequels that have enormous impact on all of the major characters in the story.”


Another reason not to buy that GL intended in his "head" for the jedi to be celibate
@spacebaby45678

Not a huge fan of love triangles in general, but geez, that would have made for a much more compelling story, IMO.
@ISeeAnIsland

Totally. And honestly, it'd be a much more compelling reason for Anakin for fall to the dark side than him just having a bad dream about Palme dying. It'd also increase the tension between Anakin and Obi Wan to the tenth degree. Vader's murder of Obi Wan in ANH would take on new meaning. He wouldn't have killed him just because he's a Darksider and Darksiders do bad things. He killed him because he had a very personal grudge.

Wow - talk about a missed opportunity...

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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by vaderito on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 3:55 pm

@IoJovi

I personally don't think it was George Lucas's intent to make the implication that while attachments were not okay within the Jedi order, one-night stands were well within reason.

yet when you don't own up to your original idea - and he did model the Jedi after warrior monks so it's an unspoken metaphor that people understand - you open the door to any type of bias-driven interpretation including that one night stand was OK (to justify certain lost child).

Still, it's never stated that sex is forbidden - only bonding with someone, so I can see why some would make that conclusion by omission.

But that's the main problem cause with that modification to their monastic life, they were encouraged to be cads! I don't know what GL was thinking but this doesn't make the Jedi smell like roses, quite the contrary. They can only be friends with benefits but what if friend with benefits who isn't a Jedi developed attachment? It's completely unfair and doesn't create any in-Unoverse rules. Like, were Jedi allowed to bang each other or that was forbidden unlike having sex outside of the Order? If GL owned up to monastic Jedi, there would be no need to explain head-scratching bullet point by bullet point. It's something people are familiar with. This is such clear and clumsy backtracking that I wonder why he went in that direction at all when he had no balls to go all the way. The Jedi were not monastic in OT but simply Knights with supernatural powers. There was no hint that they were monks. So the change obviously came from his idea to give Anakin's fall a romantic spin where love is forbidden and leads to the fall of the Order itself and war. As @SoloSideCousin remarks, Thorn Birds type of breaking the vow would have been super dramatic. And it is dramatic because GL backtracking in newspapers has no reference in the movies. The Jedi appear monkish, Anakin breaks the vow by marrying Padme and getting her pregnant, epic tragedy that destroys the Order and the young lovers enfolds. So GL's clarification is just a useless attempt to eat cake and have it too (I appease fans that Jedi are not celibate but load the movies with enough monastic references to make them look celibate for Thron Birds effect). Full of sith GL is.





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Re: The Reproductive Imperative

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 5:04 pm

I'm sorry, but how often do you sleep with someone and NOT form an attachment? I mean, I know it happens, hence my one night stands comment, but really? I usually form an attachment BEFORE sleeping with someone, LOL. "They can have sex but not get attached," sounds like a cruel form of torture. "How do I do that, Master?" "Just sleep with people you hate." Shocked

Edit: Oh wait. Jedi are probably not allowed to "hate" either Razz
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