StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by snufkin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:22 pm

And I wish I could find the article comments (either Entertainment Weekly or the AV Club) about JJ's "Urn of his enemies ashes" disclosure because the comments section made me LMAO with something like "THAT BASTARD! HE'S GONNA PAY FOR WHAT HE DID TO HAN SOLO!" followed by a long thread of responses along the lines of "Mmmm, daddy. Yeah he can f**k me up."

I mean, of course he'd do something over the top and melodramatic like keep an urn of his enemies ashes around. That's his extra af personality which is part of the fun of him being paired off with Rey because she's such a no bullshit, pragmatic personality.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by nickandnora on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:35 pm

PlotGate: The gate that keeps on giving! Kathleen Kennedy and other LucasFilm affiliates are consistently proud to reveal that they have no longterm plan for the Sequel Trilogy and are pretty much making things up as they go along.
I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum so I don't want anyone to have to repeat themselves, but can someone link me to more info about this (and any possible "resolution") because as someone who forces people to analyze stories for a living (English teacher, ha) and as someone who just watched TFA and TLJ back to back, I have to say these are some remarkably tight and well-forecasted stories if they are simply flying by the seat of their pants. <--- not that I actually believe this is what they are doing for a minute

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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:41 pm

@snufkin wrote:And I wish I could find the article comments (either Entertainment Weekly or the AV Club) about JJ's "Urn of his enemies ashes" disclosure because the comments section made me LMAO with something like "THAT BASTARD! HE'S GONNA PAY FOR WHAT HE DID TO HAN SOLO!" followed by a long thread of responses along the lines of "Mmmm, daddy. Yeah he can f**k me up."

I mean, of course he'd do something over the top and melodramatic like keep an urn of his enemies ashes around. That's his extra af personality which is part of the fun of him being paired off with Rey because she's such a no bullshit, pragmatic personality.
@snufkin
Oh yes, those comments were priceless. As much as AshGate caused a stir for some others reacted er... differently. I remember there was a new photo of unmasked, pretty-boy Kylo published with the article and the "who's your daddy" fans and the likes of lesbianrey were probably quite excited.

I'll just leave this here.

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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by IoJovi on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:46 pm

@nickandnora wrote:
PlotGate: The gate that keeps on giving! Kathleen Kennedy and other LucasFilm affiliates are consistently proud to reveal that they have no longterm plan for the Sequel Trilogy and are pretty much making things up as they go along.
I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum so I don't want anyone to have to repeat themselves, but can someone link me to more info about this (and any possible "resolution") because as someone who forces people to analyze stories for a living (English teacher, ha) and as someone who just watched TFA and TLJ back to back, I have to say these are some remarkably tight and well-forecasted stories if they are simply flying by the seat of their pants. <--- not that I actually believe this is what they are doing for a minute
@nickandnora

Not sure if there's any one link as this has been repeated hundred times by Rian Johnson, as a matter of fact, he's the sole person who seems to perpetuate this if I'm not mistaken.  I haven't heard anybody like Kathleen Kennedy state this, and everything Pablo says contradicts it.  

In a nut shell without going into the weeds too much, it's complete bs.  There are a load of things that contradict it, like Adam Driver knowing Ben Solo's complete story arc from start to finish, and Daisy knowing who Rey's parents were from the minute she signed on. Pablo had a tweet early on that stated the stories are mapped out as a far as 10 years in advance at this point.  I also attended three canon novel authors' panels at Dragoncon, with EK Johnson, Claudia Gray, Timothy Zahn and Delilah Dawson.  ALL of them stated that when writing these novels, the story group has such a tight hold on things it's not funny.  

EK Johnson advised when writing her book, she wanted to have a rebel fleet come out of hyper space at (insert random obscure but canon planet here - I can't remember the name).  STory group came back and said, nope, there's a Star Destroyer there.  She asked, "Well, are you guys sure?"  Their response again - "THERE IS A STAR DESTROYER THERE.  Please choose a different planet."

So yeah, given the tight hold the story group holds, there is literally no way plotgate exists in reality.  None.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by Irina de France on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:50 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:
PlotGate: The gate that keeps on giving! Kathleen Kennedy and other LucasFilm affiliates are consistently proud to reveal that they have no longterm plan for the Sequel Trilogy and are pretty much making things up as they go along.
I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum so I don't want anyone to have to repeat themselves, but can someone link me to more info about this (and any possible "resolution") because as someone who forces people to analyze stories for a living (English teacher, ha) and as someone who just watched TFA and TLJ back to back, I have to say these are some remarkably tight and well-forecasted stories if they are simply flying by the seat of their pants. <--- not that I actually believe this is what they are doing for a minute
@nickandnora

Not sure if there's any one link as this has been repeated hundred times by Rian Johnson, as a matter of fact, he's the sole person who seems to perpetuate this if I'm not mistaken.  I haven't heard anybody like Kathleen Kennedy state this, and everything Pablo says contradicts it.  

In a nut shell without going into the weeds too much, it's complete bs.  There are a load of things that contradict it, like Adam Driver knowing Ben Solo's complete story arc from start to finish, and Daisy knowing who Rey's parents were from the minute she signed on. Pablo had a tweet early on that stated the stories are mapped out as a far as 10 years in advance at this point.  I also attended three canon novel authors' panels at Dragoncon, with EK Johnson, Claudia Gray, Timothy Zahn and Delilah Dawson.  ALL of them stated that when writing these novels, the story group has such a tight hold on things it's not funny.  

EK Johnson advised when writing her book, she wanted to have a rebel fleet come out of hyper space at (insert random obscure but canon planet here - I can't remember the name).  STory group came back and said, nope, there's a Star Destroyer there.  She asked, "Well, are you guys sure?"  Their response again - "THERE IS A STAR DESTROYER THERE.  Please choose a different planet."

So yeah, given the tight hold the story group holds, there is literally no way plotgate exists in reality.  None.
@IoJovi

To be honest, considering all the inconsistencies in the OT and the PT, people shouldn't be worried about potential mistakes in details. I mean, just look at the Legends continuity. I hate to say this, but no wonder it got axed by Disney.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:55 pm

@IoJovi
I can't get receipts right now but I know for a fact Kathleen Kennedy has also sold fans on PlotGate many times over the past year, so it's not just Rian. I remember a French article in particular in which she basically repeats what Rian has said time and again. 

I'm a believer in PlotGate, as you know, but only to an extent. I believe they have major themes down (i.e. light-dark romance, dark side as a representation of adolescence in a coming-of-age) but writers choose how to tell the story, create new characters like Rose, Holdo and DJ and set things up for the next writer. So in a way it's more like PlotGate doesn't actually matter because the ideas/themes are there. 

I also don't know if Adam knows his character's full arc. He knows some things. That's what he always says. So if I had to guess I bet he was told he would play a character who at first hides who he is behind a mask and who later evolves into "other people". We've seen one example of evolution now in TLJ and IX will certainly include another. From that perspective you could say he doesn't actually know how it's going to play out, just that he's on a transformative path.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by snufkin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:03 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig I just thought it was hysterical with the contrast between the morally outraged fans who want to murder him for killing their fave and like you said, the ones who were losing their sh*t over a pretty boy DS bad guy enforcer.

Actually that whole anecdote is interesting because we've seen a couple instances (Reygate's a good one) where JJ's enthusiasm and "that would be cool" tends to run away from him. So he gets this idea and it's a throw away detail which adds nothing to the character or story. In a situation where he has Kasdan (the architect of much of the story/characters) repeating the mantra of "show don't tell." So it gets tossed out as a plot detail other than keeping that one shot for dramatic effect after Kylo takes off the mask. But it's still very extra af and which character is also extra af? There were a couple articles discussed here back in 2016 about how JJ=Kylo and that makes it good news that he's back as the writer/director. Because anybody who thinks that a character the filmmaker self-identifies with is going to finally morph into the stereotypical 2 dimensional heartless villain who dies humiliated and unredeemed as part of the Myth of Redemptive Violence is going to be pretty disappointed.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by snufkin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:11 pm

Also guys, mark your calendars for early March. 'Cause you know that there will be freak outs and Gates when the tie-in novels for TLJ finally come out.



Also shout out to @Piper Maru for mentioning boob gate. Turns out the boobs which got ogled were Ben's, not Rey's!

@Irina de France - I think part of why I split off from SW as a fan after the OT ended is because anything I ever heard about the EU tie-in novels didn't just sound bad and OoC for the what I liked about the films, it sounded not nearly as interesting as the other novels from the classic horror, sci-fi, and fantasy world (like Le Guin, RIP!) that I'd started to move on to as a teenager. Just never sounded like they were worth my time and certainly didn't catch my interest the way the OT films did. Also the Luke Skywalker hagiography and worship as far as I remember was not part of the OT fandom experience. Like that seems to have come out in the time period after, I'd guess from the EU and RPG fandom. Which is where we get this whole fixation on things like Rey Skywalker.


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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by nickandnora on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:12 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig That's interesting. I definitely see the themes and motifs and general ideas, but more than that (and again, I say this as someone who just watched TFA and TLJ back to back) there's just this overall sense of planning when it comes to certain aspects of the story, namely Rey and Kylo. I wouldn't actually be surprised if they had the final "confrontation" and resolution (as in the exact scenario) involving Rey and Kylo planned very far in advance and pretty specifically, as well as the final scene of the whole series. I mean yeah, J.J. Abrams likes to set-up his mysteries, but this feels more specific than that, and what's more, Rian obviously latched onto his specifics, and now J.J. is going to get to RElatch onto the relatch of his specifics, lol. It's just all feeling very, very intentional when it comes to Rey and Kylo. I mean kudos to them if it's not for making it FEEL like it I guess.

But I agree that there's plenty they didn't have planned, including some big things like wtf to do with Poe, etc. (<--- which is probably still up in the air as we speak, since I think there's a couple of directions they could take his character and have it connect back nicely to the stories and themes at hand).

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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by ZioRen on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:21 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:
PlotGate: The gate that keeps on giving! Kathleen Kennedy and other LucasFilm affiliates are consistently proud to reveal that they have no longterm plan for the Sequel Trilogy and are pretty much making things up as they go along.
I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum so I don't want anyone to have to repeat themselves, but can someone link me to more info about this (and any possible "resolution") because as someone who forces people to analyze stories for a living (English teacher, ha) and as someone who just watched TFA and TLJ back to back, I have to say these are some remarkably tight and well-forecasted stories if they are simply flying by the seat of their pants. <--- not that I actually believe this is what they are doing for a minute
@nickandnora

Not sure if there's any one link as this has been repeated hundred times by Rian Johnson, as a matter of fact, he's the sole person who seems to perpetuate this if I'm not mistaken.  I haven't heard anybody like Kathleen Kennedy state this, and everything Pablo says contradicts it.  

In a nut shell without going into the weeds too much, it's complete bs.  There are a load of things that contradict it, like Adam Driver knowing Ben Solo's complete story arc from start to finish, and Daisy knowing who Rey's parents were from the minute she signed on. Pablo had a tweet early on that stated the stories are mapped out as a far as 10 years in advance at this point.  I also attended three canon novel authors' panels at Dragoncon, with EK Johnson, Claudia Gray, Timothy Zahn and Delilah Dawson.  ALL of them stated that when writing these novels, the story group has such a tight hold on things it's not funny.  

EK Johnson advised when writing her book, she wanted to have a rebel fleet come out of hyper space at (insert random obscure but canon planet here - I can't remember the name).  STory group came back and said, nope, there's a Star Destroyer there.  She asked, "Well, are you guys sure?"  Their response again - "THERE IS A STAR DESTROYER THERE.  Please choose a different planet."

So yeah, given the tight hold the story group holds, there is literally no way plotgate exists in reality.  None.
@IoJovi

I wonder if Rian hadn't tried so hard to follow logically from TFA and hadn't studied it so insistently if he would have come across more of a block in his work. Yes, he supposedly had free reign but he was also trying really hard to pull from elements in TFA and not go completely another direction. If he had or tried to retcon major things, he may have found himself stopped or steered away from it. So from his perspective he may have gotten full, unadulterated choice because his approach never allowed him to hit any walls. I guess we'll never know!
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by snufkin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:32 pm

I'd say Rose is Exhibit #1 in regards to Plotgate because Rian admitted that writing Poe and Finn's Awesome Bromance Adventures was boring.

JJ and Kasdan set up multiple plot points which the same fans who are bitching about No Snoke Back Story are the same fans who likely bitched about it being a re-hash (spoiler alert - it is, but much of it revisits what Kasdan wrote in ESB). Rian could've gone with that, what's in the first Jedi Temple, what happened at Uncle Luke's Bible Camp, who are Rey's parents in a way that was simply playing connect the dots with Star Wars trivia. What he decided to do instead was focus on the characters and their relationships and make those background details serve them where it made sense.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by ZioRen on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:36 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Rey and Kylo's trajectory was the only thing slightly set in stone and every other piece was left free to move at will.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by MrsWindu on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 4:21 pm

Back when VF Romance gate hit I was still a lurker at large on this forum. I’d Never been part of any fandoms so I just didn’t know what the blazes was going down. Becoming a member has been most enlightening, and I still don’t frequent any other forums.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by IoJovi on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 4:51 pm

@MrsWindu wrote:Back when VF Romance gate hit I was still a lurker at large on this forum. I’d Never been part of any fandoms so I just didn’t know what the blazes was going down. Becoming a member has been most enlightening, and I still don’t frequent any other forums.
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Be glad you missed it. It was bloody awful! Laughing
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by MyOnlyHope on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 5:36 pm

BarbieGate initiated one of the worst anti meltdowns I've ever seen. Seeing their prettied up, "abused" heroine packaged and sold like Barbie alongside her dreamy "abuser" Kylo Ken and marketed toward the same little girl demographic as Forces of Destiny began stirring the fear in their hearts that maybe Lucasfilm wasn't taking their ridiculous pearl clutching opinions into consideration whatsoever. LF would damn well sell Reylo "let's make them kiss" dolls to little girls if they wanted to.

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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 6:40 pm

@ZioRen wrote:Every single fake leak is going to have Kylo die, just watch. We all saw how uncreative "leakers" were with his arc when they were making stuff up about TLJ. Laughing

I also bet half of them will forget the Force bond even exists and have no romantic element whatsoever. Until we get closer to release and we get more hints at the romantic element still being intact. Then it'll start being included in the leaks, just like it was in the lead up to TLJ.
@ZioRen

Are you saying that having him stomping up and down hallways for the first two acts or flat-out disappearing until act three weren't creative? Laughing
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by snufkin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 6:44 pm

@MyOnlyHope Anybody who's worried about their paired dolls sending the wrong message has clearly forgotten that part of their childhood, where most little girls have dolls do more than just feel the Force together or hold hands.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by MyOnlyHope on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:06 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Every single fake leak is going to have Kylo die, just watch. We all saw how uncreative "leakers" were with his arc when they were making stuff up about TLJ. Laughing

I also bet half of them will forget the Force bond even exists and have no romantic element whatsoever. Until we get closer to release and we get more hints at the romantic element still being intact. Then it'll start being included in the leaks, just like it was in the lead up to TLJ.
@ZioRen

Are you saying that having him stomping up and down hallways for the first two acts or flat-out disappearing until act three weren't creative? Laughing
@ISeeAnIsland
Funnily enough, the majority of FAF leaks for VIII that I remember included some form of romantic Reylo  Razz All this "there is an underlying sense of attraction between them" stuff. FAF's are a joy (rip sloth anakin, mechanical pelvis and Kylo pacing for 2.5 hours). It'll be fun to see what people come up with for IX.


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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by Piper Maru on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:10 pm

@snufkin wrote:@MyOnlyHope Anybody who's worried about their paired dolls sending the wrong message has clearly forgotten that part of their childhood, where most little girls have dolls do more than just feel the Force together or hold hands.
@snufkin

Hoo boy! I knew Reylo would be definitely romantic when I saw those dolls.

The things me and my friends did with our dolls do when were kids... You have no idea lol. Puts to shame a lot of fanfic scenarios Laughing
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by snufkin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:15 pm

@Piper Maru Oh no kidding! Especially with the copy text in the English language markets that he's 'fiery' and pursued her across the galaxy. It reads like a goddamn romance novel. And then there's your signature gif, obviously. Anybody know if the paired perfumes were released yet? Because you don't do a His and Hers cologne for cousin-siblings or even for people who are just *almost* going to get together.

I mean, I thought as a child when I saw ESB that Han and Leia had sex the first moment they were alone together on Bespin. So I'm more than confident that there are plenty of children out there right now wondering why they didn't get to kiss in the movie and will have plenty of adventures for the two of them once the dolls are available. Not to mention styling his hair!
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by MyOnlyHope on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:19 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@MyOnlyHope Anybody who's worried about their paired dolls sending the wrong message has clearly forgotten that part of their childhood, where most little girls have dolls do more than just feel the Force together or hold hands.
@snufkin

Hoo boy! I knew Reylo would be definitely romantic when I saw those dolls.

The things me and my friends did with our dolls do when were kids... You have no idea lol. Puts to shame a lot of fanfic scenarios Laughing
@Piper Maru
Ikr. Plus their clothes and boots are, and I quote, "fully removable." Like calm down LF.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:22 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@MyOnlyHope Anybody who's worried about their paired dolls sending the wrong message has clearly forgotten that part of their childhood, where  most little girls have dolls do more than just feel the Force together or hold hands.
@snufkin

Hoo boy! I knew Reylo would be definitely romantic when I saw those dolls.

The things me and my friends did with our dolls do when were kids... You have no idea lol. Puts to shame a lot of fanfic scenarios Laughing
@Piper Maru
Oh, I will be buying these dolls just because of how much they triggered upset Annes.

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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by MyOnlyHope on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:23 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig Highly poseable + removable outfits. Thx Lucasfilm.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by IoJovi on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:24 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@MyOnlyHope Anybody who's worried about their paired dolls sending the wrong message has clearly forgotten that part of their childhood, where  most little girls have dolls do more than just feel the Force together or hold hands.
@snufkin

Hoo boy! I knew Reylo would be definitely romantic when I saw those dolls.

The things me and my friends did with our dolls do when were kids... You have no idea lol. Puts to shame a lot of fanfic scenarios Laughing
@Piper Maru
Oh, I will be buying these dolls just because of how much they triggered upset Annes.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I have a special place on my shelf reserved for them. They’ll be among all of the other Reylo/SW merch I’ve managed to collect over the past two years.
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Re: StarWarsGATE: A comprehensive guide

Post by snufkin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:25 pm

@MyOnlyHope @IoJovi @IoJovi @Piper Maru

Hahaha, I look forward to your reports. Or the eventual Instagram accounts depicting their activities together.

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