The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:39 pm

@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene
I think Rey and Kylo sharing the same overwhelming, destructive "raw power" explains pretty clearly why Kylo was so interested in her. The "raw power" is the "Force Bond", the thing that connects them that fascinated Kylo from the get-go. He wasn't simply attracted to her, he saw himself in her (and based on his request to train her, genuinely wanted to help). He has also experienced fighting with that power. "Crush" just seems like such a juvenile, simplistic term at this point--it's clearly much bigger than that, and I'm really happy with the two of them sharing something so confusing and mysterious. Very Star Wars-y.
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Post by DarthRen on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:40 pm

@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene

Book info is as canon as movie is.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:45 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene
I think Rey and Kylo sharing the same overwhelming, destructive "raw power" explains pretty clearly why Kylo was so interested in her. The "raw power" is the "Force Bond", the thing that connects them that fascinated Kylo from the get-go. He wasn't simply attracted to her, he saw himself in her (and based on his request to train her, genuinely wanted to help). He has also experienced fighting with that power. "Crush" just seems like such a juvenile, simplistic term at this point--it's clearly much bigger than that, and I'm really happy with the two of them sharing something so confusing and mysterious. Very Star Wars-y.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yup. And to the people concerned about Kylo's interest being "creepy", I think this explanation (seeing himself/intrigued by her "raw powah") pretty much eliminates the creepiness factor. He's seeing a kindred spirit, not just a pretty girl.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:48 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene
I think Rey and Kylo sharing the same overwhelming, destructive "raw power" explains pretty clearly why Kylo was so interested in her. The "raw power" is the "Force Bond", the thing that connects them that fascinated Kylo from the get-go. He wasn't simply attracted to her, he saw himself in her (and based on his request to train her, genuinely wanted to help). He has also experienced fighting with that power. "Crush" just seems like such a juvenile, simplistic term at this point--it's clearly much bigger than that, and I'm really happy with the two of them sharing something so confusing and mysterious. Very Star Wars-y.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yup. And to the people concerned about Kylo's interest being "creepy", I think this explanation (seeing himself/intrigued by her "raw powah") pretty much eliminates the creepiness factor. He's seeing a kindred spirit, not just a pretty girl.
@ISeeAnIsland
This is the interpretation I've always loved so as soon as I heard Luke say "I've only seen this strength once before", I got so giddy! Think I squealed and clapped a hand to my mouth, LOL! The connection is there, it's what scares Luke and what drives Rey to seek answers. This is the foundation of their dynamic, the piece we've been unsure about that is going to set the tone of their arc. It's not just a crush or romance, it's a primal, untamed and otherworldly power that they'll have to learn to control together. Great stuff, Rian. Seriously.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:49 pm

WhatGirl wrote:

Sad that they filmed a scene for it and then deleted it. Maybe because they're not going in that direction after all.
@WhatGirl

Nah, it's because the logical conclusion is



and that doesn't fit with their Is Rey Luke's mystery.

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:52 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene
I think Rey and Kylo sharing the same overwhelming, destructive "raw power" explains pretty clearly why Kylo was so interested in her. The "raw power" is the "Force Bond", the thing that connects them that fascinated Kylo from the get-go. He wasn't simply attracted to her, he saw himself in her (and based on his request to train her, genuinely wanted to help). He has also experienced fighting with that power. "Crush" just seems like such a juvenile, simplistic term at this point--it's clearly much bigger than that, and I'm really happy with the two of them sharing something so confusing and mysterious. Very Star Wars-y.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yup. And to the people concerned about Kylo's interest being "creepy", I think this explanation (seeing himself/intrigued by her "raw powah") pretty much eliminates the creepiness factor. He's seeing a kindred spirit, not just a pretty girl.
@ISeeAnIsland
This is the interpretation I've always loved so as soon as I heard Luke say "I've only seen this strength once before", I got so giddy! Think I squealed and clapped a hand to my mouth, LOL! The connection is there, it's what scares Luke and what drives Rey to seek answers. This is the foundation of their dynamic, the piece we've been unsure about that is going to set the tone of their arc. It's not just a crush or romance, it's a primal, untamed and otherworldly power that they'll have to learn to control together. Great stuff, Rian. Seriously.
@FrolickingFizzgig

And it fits in perfectly with Kylo's TFA line, which was somewhat ambiguous at the time: "She's just beginning to test her powers. The longer it takes to find her... the more dangerous she becomes."

IMO, he means that literally. Not just that she's an "enemy of the First Order", but that her raw, untrained power is dangerous.
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Post by SkyStar on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:55 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene
I think Rey and Kylo sharing the same overwhelming, destructive "raw power" explains pretty clearly why Kylo was so interested in her. The "raw power" is the "Force Bond", the thing that connects them that fascinated Kylo from the get-go. He wasn't simply attracted to her, he saw himself in her (and based on his request to train her, genuinely wanted to help). He has also experienced fighting with that power. "Crush" just seems like such a juvenile, simplistic term at this point--it's clearly much bigger than that, and I'm really happy with the two of them sharing something so confusing and mysterious. Very Star Wars-y.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yup. And to the people concerned about Kylo's interest being "creepy", I think this explanation (seeing himself/intrigued by her "raw powah") pretty much eliminates the creepiness factor. He's seeing a kindred spirit, not just a pretty girl.
@ISeeAnIsland
This is the interpretation I've always loved so as soon as I heard Luke say "I've only seen this strength once before", I got so giddy! Think I squealed and clapped a hand to my mouth, LOL! The connection is there, it's what scares Luke and what drives Rey to seek answers. This is the foundation of their dynamic, the piece we've been unsure about that is going to set the tone of their arc. It's not just a crush or romance, it's a primal, untamed and otherworldly power that they'll have to learn to control together. Great stuff, Rian. Seriously.
@FrolickingFizzgig

And it fits in perfectly with Kylo's TFA line, which was somewhat ambiguous at the time:  "She's just beginning to test her powers. The longer it takes to find her... the more dangerous she becomes."

IMO, he means that literally. Not just that she's an "enemy of the First Order", but that her raw, untrained power is dangerous.
@ISeeAnIsland

Reading all your thoughts just makes me so happy! It feels like the picture is getting so clear now.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:56 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene
I think Rey and Kylo sharing the same overwhelming, destructive "raw power" explains pretty clearly why Kylo was so interested in her. The "raw power" is the "Force Bond", the thing that connects them that fascinated Kylo from the get-go. He wasn't simply attracted to her, he saw himself in her (and based on his request to train her, genuinely wanted to help). He has also experienced fighting with that power. "Crush" just seems like such a juvenile, simplistic term at this point--it's clearly much bigger than that, and I'm really happy with the two of them sharing something so confusing and mysterious. Very Star Wars-y.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yup. And to the people concerned about Kylo's interest being "creepy", I think this explanation (seeing himself/intrigued by her "raw powah") pretty much eliminates the creepiness factor. He's seeing a kindred spirit, not just a pretty girl.
@ISeeAnIsland
This is the interpretation I've always loved so as soon as I heard Luke say "I've only seen this strength once before", I got so giddy! Think I squealed and clapped a hand to my mouth, LOL! The connection is there, it's what scares Luke and what drives Rey to seek answers. This is the foundation of their dynamic, the piece we've been unsure about that is going to set the tone of their arc. It's not just a crush or romance, it's a primal, untamed and otherworldly power that they'll have to learn to control together. Great stuff, Rian. Seriously.
@FrolickingFizzgig

And it fits in perfectly with Kylo's TFA line, which was somewhat ambiguous at the time: "She's just beginning to test her powers. The longer it takes to find her... the more dangerous she becomes."

IMO, he means that literally. Not just that she's an "enemy of the First Order", but that her raw, untrained power is dangerous.
@ISeeAnIsland

And Kylo was absolutely, 100% right about "you need a teacher", too Smile
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 3:58 pm

I feel very confident that we've got some major pieces figured out now--both the "strange connection"/Kylo's motivation with Rey AND some idea of what went down at Luke's temple. Ugh. Why do I have to work for 3 more hours???
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Post by Saracene on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 4:27 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene

Book info is as canon as movie is.
@DarthRen

But if it wasn't shown in the film, it's probably not crucial to the story. Movies are the primary source and be-all end-all.

@FrolickingFizzgig I agree, a relationship between two force-powerful people has to be about the force and how it sets them apart from everyone else. Otherwise they could just be two ordinary people.
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Post by snufkin on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 4:32 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I feel very confident that we've got some major pieces figured out now--both the "strange connection"/Kylo's motivation with Rey AND some idea of what went down at Luke's temple. Ugh. Why do I have to work for 3 more hours???
@ISeeAnIsland

Agreed! And to think we're supposedly writing fan fiction and have no idea how this stuff works versus the fandom hivemind. It will be peers/equals as a contrast to the obvious bad mentor-student relationships he's had with both Snoke and Luke. And with how bad things are for Rey with Luke.

You guys have me almost believing that he does flee with Rey from Ache-to and has the reunion with Leia before returning to the FO with the Romeo and Juliet version of her theme playing in the theater. As for romance, the OT had the Howard Hawks/African Queen type romance which worked for those characters and really put the screws on Han being a marked man with a bounty over his head. The PT had, well in Roger Ebert's words, " To say that George Lucas cannot write a love scene is an understatement; greeting cards have expressed more passion." The romance served a functional purpose because you have two characters in the OT who are the product of it and as a pretext for a fall/DS corruption. But otherwise, it's exposition. Speaking of Ebert, his RotJ review mused on how the next trilogy should be about the origins and larger metaphysical implications of the Force. So fingers crossed that's what we're getting. Not that we don't enjoy making jokes about the villainous crush and Kylo's sweet attempts to smooth talk Rey. Just that it's hopefully meant to be part of something larger and transcendent while also like you guys said, something primal and raw which they'll have to learn to control together.
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Post by rey09 on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 4:46 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
RandomObserver wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:So it looks to me from the trailer that Kylo and Rey might end up having something that resembles a teacher-student relationship. Which leaves me wondering what sort of things Kylo will show her in terms of what her place is.

If Luke essentially refuses to accept her as his pupil and Kylo turns away from Snoke, that would naturally lead these two to finding one another, overcoming their differences and forming an alliance. It's only their respective factions that currently force them to be enemies, imo.

My guess is that Kylo will mentor Rey in the ways of the Force but her training won't be complete by the end of TLJ - I doubt that journey will be over until the trilogy itself is concluded. I'm puzzled though as to why she'd go to Snoke, and how? Does Kylo take her to him?
@WhatGirl

I don't know... I see her asking him for help or potentially bringing him food on Ahch-To (if he's ousted) in exchange for lessons or something, but given the whole vibe of how he looked at her at the end of the trailer, part of me thinks it's going to be less teacher-student and more equal footing when he trains her. I can see an alliance between them, for sure. Though I do think he is already taken with her. If it stays non-romantic in Episode 8, I think it's equally going to be pretty clear by the end that he does have feelings for her that aren't strictly platonic.
@RandomObserver

I have no worries about Kylo having a romantic feelings for Rey but the question if Rey will.
@DarthRen Their mutual longing for belonging I'd say is the biggest pull toward each other. And that is connected with the "force bond" thing. He will know she wants the belonging, and she will know he wants it. I just can't see a nonromantic route with that. Their lives are spent trying to be molded into something by other people without giving them a chance to understand themselves- Luke trying to make Ben into a new chosen one, snoke into his new evil pawn and Rey will probably be pulled like that as well. That's why they need each other more than ever- so they can finally just figure out who they are. And with the belonging, they both specifically have wanted family so it only makes sense they come together and have one of their own =)
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Post by Tex on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 4:53 pm

This is the interpretation I've always loved so as soon as I heard Luke say "I've only seen this strength once before", I got so giddy! Think I squealed and clapped a hand to my mouth, LOL! The connection is there, it's what scares Luke and what drives Rey to seek answers. This is the foundation of their dynamic, the piece we've been unsure about that is going to set the tone of their arc. It's not just a crush or romance, it's a primal, untamed and otherworldly power that they'll have to learn to control together. Great stuff, Rian. Seriously.

@FrolickingFizzgig

This just brought tears to my eyes. Perfectly said, just wow, yes, exactly. Claps
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Post by DarthRen on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 4:57 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene

Book info is as canon as movie is.
@DarthRen

But if it wasn't shown in the film, it's probably not crucial to the story. Movies are the primary source and be-all end-all.

@FrolickingFizzgig I agree, a relationship between two force-powerful people has to be about the force and how it sets them apart from everyone else. Otherwise they could just be two ordinary people.
@Saracene

That's what Pablo Hidalgo said. I basically agreee with this, it happened and the movie all the same conveyed the same feeling ... that Kylo had a compassion and interest in Rey beyond just getting that map. JJ's commentary is pretty clear.
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Post by Tex on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 5:00 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
WhatGirl wrote:I'm not sure if they're still going with Kylo having a crush on Rey. In TFA yes I'd say that was the case. Snoke in the novelization even straight-up calls out Kylo on it. "I perceive the problem. Her strength isn't what is making you fail, it's your weakness." It wasn't about who was stronger in the Force; it was about Kylo's compassion for Rey. But in the new trailer for TLJ it looks like they've decided to just make Rey extremely powerful and have that be the explanation for everything, sigh.
@WhatGirl

Compassion was a book-only thing though and was never shown in the film. The whole interrogation scene is quite different in the film. But Kylo's interest in Rey, even before he finds out about the power, is all there.
@Saracene
I think Rey and Kylo sharing the same overwhelming, destructive "raw power" explains pretty clearly why Kylo was so interested in her. The "raw power" is the "Force Bond", the thing that connects them that fascinated Kylo from the get-go. He wasn't simply attracted to her, he saw himself in her (and based on his request to train her, genuinely wanted to help). He has also experienced fighting with that power. "Crush" just seems like such a juvenile, simplistic term at this point--it's clearly much bigger than that, and I'm really happy with the two of them sharing something so confusing and mysterious. Very Star Wars-y.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yup. And to the people concerned about Kylo's interest being "creepy", I think this explanation (seeing himself/intrigued by her "raw powah") pretty much eliminates the creepiness factor. He's seeing a kindred spirit, not just a pretty girl.
@ISeeAnIsland
This is the interpretation I've always loved so as soon as I heard Luke say "I've only seen this strength once before", I got so giddy! Think I squealed and clapped a hand to my mouth, LOL! The connection is there, it's what scares Luke and what drives Rey to seek answers. This is the foundation of their dynamic, the piece we've been unsure about that is going to set the tone of their arc. It's not just a crush or romance, it's a primal, untamed and otherworldly power that they'll have to learn to control together. Great stuff, Rian. Seriously.
@FrolickingFizzgig

And it fits in perfectly with Kylo's TFA line, which was somewhat ambiguous at the time:  "She's just beginning to test her powers. The longer it takes to find her... the more dangerous she becomes."

IMO, he means that literally. Not just that she's an "enemy of the First Order", but that her raw, untrained power is dangerous.
@ISeeAnIsland

And Kylo was absolutely, 100% right about "you need a teacher", too Smile
@Darth Dingbat

From what we've all talked about it's becoming obvious that TLJ is going to completely change our interpretation of TFA, especially Kylo Ren's actions/motivations. Exciting stuff guys! Very exciting indeed!
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Post by Kessel on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 5:13 pm

All this sounds much more profound and intense than an "ordinary love story." Now I'm even more excited to see what Rian does with Rey and Kylo's connection!
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Post by snufkin on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 5:40 pm

@Kessel wrote:more profound and intense than an "ordinary love story."

Which is part of why having an old-school fanboy from Vanity Fair write the glorified PR puff piece cover story was such a bad move. Not that they could spoil anything, just that it's a completely different paradigm than what somebody with that mindset would expect. Audience is either going to flip out over it the way we have or they're going to be confused. Which hopefully the screwball/fun romance will be with Finn and Rose to satisfy the traditionalists.

Seriously though, this is like one of the books I immediately started to flash on when thinking about it, they're Lyra and Will from Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials. Which despite being marketed as YA, is both a profoundly spiritual/transcendent relationship with a shared cosmic destiny, but with a strong sexual subtext.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 5:46 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@Kessel wrote:more profound and intense than an "ordinary love story."

Which is part of why having an old-school fanboy from Vanity Fair write the glorified PR puff piece cover story was such a bad move. Not that they could spoil anything, just that it's a completely different paradigm than what somebody with that mindset would expect. Audience is either going to flip out over it the way we have or they're going to be confused. Which hopefully the screwball/fun romance will be with Finn and Rose to satisfy the traditionalists.

Seriously though, this is like one of the books I immediately started to flash on when thinking about it, they're Lyra and Will from Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials. Which despite being marketed as YA, is both a profoundly spiritual/transcendent relationship with a shared cosmic destiny, but with a strong sexual subtext.
@snufkin

Yeah, Will/Lyra were always one of my templates for Rey/Kylo. Also Jen/Kyra (Dark Crystal).
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 5:55 pm

Gotta say, I'm honestly so thankful right now to Rian/LF for giving us what I think is going to be the best "shape" Reylo could have taken. It's just so narratively satisfying, and I think it'll actually be fully embraced by all but anybody who wants to hate the movie. I haven't read my meta in a long time but I remember writing a paragraph about how Rey and Kylo are going to be both the beauty and the beast archetype, and Rian definitely went there! There's no monster and the maiden, it's monster and the monster! It's the glorious kind of dynamic you don't see that often in Western storytelling--but it's 2017 so it's about time writers make use of it. Sharing a deep power that is neither dark nor light was so high up there on my list of possibilities between Rey and Kylo, and hearing Snoke and Luke make reference to it in the trailer has had been high for two days! It's not romance, that's for sure, but revealing them to possess something dangerous and confusing that separates them from everybody else in the story is the exact development we needed in order for any kind of romance to unfold in IX. Also, it fits so well with TFA. I was worried a little about the continuity, but I'm not anymore. Not at all. Rian and JJ obviously worked very closely together.
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Post by snufkin on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 5:55 pm

@vaderito - and Will/Lyra have their Adam and Eve moment of their eyes being opened and becoming aware of each other and the world around them. Just like how Rey and Kylo entered each other's minds to see their deepest dreams and fears.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 6:02 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Gotta say, I'm honestly so thankful right now to Rian/LF for giving us what I think is going to be the best "shape" Reylo could have taken. It's just so narratively satisfying, and I think it'll actually be fully embraced by all but anybody who wants to hate the movie. I haven't read my meta in a long time but I remember writing a paragraph about how Rey and Kylo are going to be both the beauty and the beast archetype, and Rian definitely went there! There's no monster and the maiden, it's monster and the monster! It's the glorious kind of dynamic you don't see that often in Western storytelling--but it's 2017 so it's about time writers make use of it. Sharing a deep power that is neither dark nor light was so high up there on my list of possibilities between Rey and Kylo, and hearing Snoke and Luke make reference to it in the trailer has had been high for two days! It's not romance, that's for sure, but revealing them to possess something dangerous and confusing that separates them from everybody else in the story is the exact development we needed in order for any kind of romance to unfold in IX. Also, it fits so well with TFA. I was worried a little about the continuity, but I'm not anymore. Not at all. Rian and JJ obviously worked very closely together.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes. It all makes so much sense. And it's absolutely the best kind of "Reylo" any proponent of the theory could have hoped for.

For one thing, this is the only way to make it utterly and completely a dynamic of equals.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 6:03 pm

@snufkin wrote:@vaderito - and Will/Lyra have their Adam and Eve moment of their eyes being opened and becoming aware of each other and the world around them. Just like how Rey and Kylo entered each other's minds to see their deepest dreams and fears.
@snufkin

Rey and Kylo touched each other's daemons. Twisted Evil
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 6:04 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Gotta say, I'm honestly so thankful right now to Rian/LF for giving us what I think is going to be the best "shape" Reylo could have taken. It's just so narratively satisfying, and I think it'll actually be fully embraced by all but anybody who wants to hate the movie. I haven't read my meta in a long time but I remember writing a paragraph about how Rey and Kylo are going to be both the beauty and the beast archetype, and Rian definitely went there! There's no monster and the maiden, it's monster and the monster! It's the glorious kind of dynamic you don't see that often in Western storytelling--but it's 2017 so it's about time writers make use of it. Sharing a deep power that is neither dark nor light was so high up there on my list of possibilities between Rey and Kylo, and hearing Snoke and Luke make reference to it in the trailer has had been high for two days! It's not romance, that's for sure, but revealing them to possess something dangerous and confusing that separates them from everybody else in the story is the exact development we needed in order for any kind of romance to unfold in IX. Also, it fits so well with TFA. I was worried a little about the continuity, but I'm not anymore. Not at all. Rian and JJ obviously worked very closely together.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes. It all makes so much sense. And it's absolutely the best kind of "Reylo" any proponent of the theory could have hoped for.

For one thing, this is the only way to make it utterly and completely a dynamic of equals.
@Darth Dingbat
And a dynamic of equals is what's going to win most people over, IMO.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 6:10 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Gotta say, I'm honestly so thankful right now to Rian/LF for giving us what I think is going to be the best "shape" Reylo could have taken. It's just so narratively satisfying, and I think it'll actually be fully embraced by all but anybody who wants to hate the movie. I haven't read my meta in a long time but I remember writing a paragraph about how Rey and Kylo are going to be both the beauty and the beast archetype, and Rian definitely went there! There's no monster and the maiden, it's monster and the monster! It's the glorious kind of dynamic you don't see that often in Western storytelling--but it's 2017 so it's about time writers make use of it. Sharing a deep power that is neither dark nor light was so high up there on my list of possibilities between Rey and Kylo, and hearing Snoke and Luke make reference to it in the trailer has had been high for two days! It's not romance, that's for sure, but revealing them to possess something dangerous and confusing that separates them from everybody else in the story is the exact development we needed in order for any kind of romance to unfold in IX. Also, it fits so well with TFA. I was worried a little about the continuity, but I'm not anymore. Not at all. Rian and JJ obviously worked very closely together.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes. It all makes so much sense. And it's absolutely the best kind of "Reylo" any proponent of the theory could have hoped for.

For one thing, this is the only way to make it utterly and completely a dynamic of equals.
@Darth Dingbat
And a dynamic of equals is what's going to win most people over, IMO.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Exactly, EXACTLY!

And it's also a very literal and exciting take on the shadow. His monstrosity is also her monstrosity. He recognised himself in her, and no doubt she'll recognise herself in him.

I can't wait to see how far that sameness actually goes, and I've never been one for Dark!Rey theories. Because it's not about "ooohhh is she or isn't she going to fall" type of titillation, not at all. It's a lot deeper than that. Monstrosity rather than sin.
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Post by snufkin on Wed 11 Oct 2017, 6:20 pm

Raw power would be Han's "too much Vader in him" because he'd be thinking of this moment. Something happened with Ben which reminded them of this show of power (Leia's only been shown so far using the Force for telepathy and low-key intuition), so Leia sent him off to Luke to see about getting it under control. And he inherited his general abilities from her, but this is something completely beyond the scope of either of their powers.

The Potentially Non-Romantic Connection Between Kylo Ren and Rey - Page 17 Performance-Management-Human-Resources-Cognito-HRM-Fistful-of-Talent

No it makes total sense. Like if it were possible to figure this out earlier, those of you who met Rian Johnson would be high fiving him and asking him about this whole topic. It's also insane now to think of the comments elsewhere about how Rey can have a relationship with him but it'd better be platonic and he can do his redemption stuff on his own time. The fandom hivemind is not thinking about this sort of thing at all. Because in Lawrence Kasdan's words, "it's weird." But that's what it has to be, both for the trilogy, characters,  and their relationship. It's not the dumb typical movie romance most fans are thinking about (or that Rey will get turned into Padme or Leia to be subservient to the dude's story). It's something completely different, which JJ hinted at in that one early days interview. It's f**king brilliant.


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