Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

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Post by Night Huntress on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 4:11 am

@Armadeus wrote:
@Night Huntress

RE: the bolded

This had always been my view of the Force. I mean, if it is part of the natural world, it doesn't make sense that it could have a 'good' and 'evil' side. Nature doesn't work that way. Trees, rocks, rivers, stars, comets, etc., don't have 'good' and 'evil' sides. They just are. They do what they do. Sometimes what they do involves destruction and death, but that's not because they're 'evil'.

Part of my excitement after watching TFA was that the SW movies might finally be moving towards 'the Force is one' viewpoint.
@Armadeus

Exactly! Back in the days when they made the OT it was common storytelling "good" vs. "evil" - it was simple, easy and in my opinion lazy.
But in reality things aren't just good/evil, black/white most of the time. I think today people like more complex stories and characters- they want to know the villains motivation and backstory.

Adam said in an interview about Kylo Ren "it's not about being evil- it's about being right"

“What distinguishes a flower from a weed is only this: the choice of the gardener.”

“Sith?  Jedi?  Are these the only choices?  Dark or light, good or evil?  Is there no more to the Force than this?  What is the screen on which light and dark cast their shapes and shadows?  Where is the ground on which stands good and evil?”
Quote: Vergere

I had my issues with the Jedi Order how GL portrayed them in the Prequels... drag away very jung children/infants from their family to train them into this "monk-like" warrior with many rules and few enjoyments? And the parents just gave away their children willingly (to never see them again) and take away their choices "because it's an honor"? Sounds very strange to me... It's a miracle so few left the Order (well, they didn't know any other life, so.. but anyway). No just no  Evil or Very Mad

I remember what my idea of a Jedi Knight was before the Prequels - and it was very different from what GL made of them.
I always thought them to be somewhat "normal" people but with special training and not that being a Jedi was all there was to their life.  Nope
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Post by SkyStar on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 5:21 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:
@Night Huntress

RE: the bolded

This had always been my view of the Force. I mean, if it is part of the natural world, it doesn't make sense that it could have a 'good' and 'evil' side. Nature doesn't work that way. Trees, rocks, rivers, stars, comets, etc., don't have 'good' and 'evil' sides. They just are. They do what they do. Sometimes what they do involves destruction and death, but that's not because they're 'evil'.

Part of my excitement after watching TFA was that the SW movies might finally be moving towards 'the Force is one' viewpoint.
@Armadeus

Exactly! Back in the days when they made the OT it was common storytelling "good" vs. "evil" - it was simple, easy and in my opinion lazy.
But in reality things aren't just good/evil, black/white most of the time. I think today people like more complex stories and characters- they want to know the villains motivation and backstory.

Adam said in an interview about Kylo Ren "it's not about being evil- it's about being right"

“What distinguishes a flower from a weed is only this: the choice of the gardener.”

“Sith?  Jedi?  Are these the only choices?  Dark or light, good or evil?  Is there no more to the Force than this?  What is the screen on which light and dark cast their shapes and shadows?  Where is the ground on which stands good and evil?”
Quote: Vergere

I had my issues with the Jedi Order how GL portrayed them in the Prequels... drag away very jung children/infants from their family to train them into this "monk-like" warrior with many rules and few enjoyments? And the parents just gave away their children willingly (to never see them again) and take away their choices "because it's an honor"? Sounds very strange to me... It's a miracle so few left the Order (well, they didn't know any other life, so.. but anyway). No just no  Evil or Very Mad

I remember what my idea of a Jedi Knight was before the Prequels - and it was very different from what GL made of them.
I always thought them to be somewhat "normal" people but with special training and not that being a Jedi was all there was to their life.  Nope
@Night Huntress

I find it fascinating and ironic that Jedi's philosophy about taking infants away inspired Brendol Hux to create his Stormtrooper program.
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Post by Night Huntress on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 5:47 am

@SkyStar wrote:
@Night Huntress

I find it fascinating and ironic that Jedi's philosophy about taking infants away inspired Brendol Hux to create his Stormtrooper program.
@SkyStar

yes, indeed. And we all agree that's bad... nevertheless the Jedi Order did the same thing for their own cause- and nobody thought it's wrong? WTH

Becoming a Jedi should be a free choice from an adult - not a child being forced into it.

To get back to topic: I don't think Ben wanted to be a Jedi... we don't know how old he was, when Leia sent him away- but he clearly had no choice either. His parents meant well, but in the end maybe it was the Jedi-Training with all those "you have to control your feelings, don't feel anger, don't be afraid.. blah blah" that pushed him over the edge (among other things of course).
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Post by snufkin on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 6:55 am

The question of what somebody might dislike reminds me of a quote making it's way around the Internet of late which gets attributed to Tarentino, there are two kinds of movie lovers, people who love the movies or people who love their movies. The OT was an homage to different genres and directors from the Golden Age. Which the franchise itself is now part of that larger pop culture fabric. Some of us love it because of that because we love movies. The list of influences RJ has mentioned from classic and foreign films, he loves the movies and Star Wars is part of that. But the fandom itself is about loving those movies and its fictional universe. So the person quoted about their having issue with it not being Star Warsy enough, it may be pushing boundaries into other genres and movie references outside of the established world. Which I thought was one of the main points GL made about the PT - he wanted to show new worlds and places instead of sticking to the familiar.

Otherwise my guess for why some fans will dislike will be the magical thinking a lot of diehard fans have about it being Luke's story, that he'll be the hero and have big lightsaber fights, Rey is his daughter or at least manic pixie sidekick against his awful space brat nephew. Betting none of that happens, he's a d*ck to Rey, we learn via flashback he made some bad decisions which led to everything going wrong, he refuses to return with Rey to his sister, his behavior hurts her deeply because of how she values/idealizes family, Kylo ends up being the more sympathetic person/guide to her and she realizes she has to work with him because of the bigger picture etc etc. Maybe they make out, though I wouldn't bet on that because otherwise it means a nasty cliffhanger and 2 more years of waiting.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 7:56 am

I think if Mark Hamill says that TLJ will be shocking to fans, I will go with what he says and it may not be as simplistic as Luke won't fight with his sister and the resistance or train Rey. I don't think fans will find it "shocking" that Rey is not Luke's daughter since most fans have already figured that out. Also, I remember MH saying that he would find it hard to believe that Luke could not through the force feel the distress of Leia & Han during the events of TFA.

Yoda and Obi Wan were actively working with the lightside of the force in their isolation on Tatooine & Dagobah to further their understanding of the force and how to become one with the force in the afterlife. The question is what is Luke doing in his isolation? Is he blocking out the force? Or is he working with the darkside of the force to further his understanding? Luke tells Rey it's bigger than light side or darkside or the balance, so maybe that is what fans will find divisive.

I heard a recent quote from Filoni where he says that it might be better NOT to explain more about the force than has already been explained. So maybe this is his preemptive disagreement with TLJ. "Maybe"
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 10:03 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Night Huntress

I find it fascinating and ironic that Jedi's philosophy about taking infants away inspired Brendol Hux to create his Stormtrooper program.
@SkyStar

yes, indeed. And we all agree that's bad... nevertheless the Jedi Order did the same thing for their own cause- and nobody thought it's wrong? WTH

Becoming a Jedi should be a free choice from an adult - not a child being forced into it.

To get back to topic: I don't think Ben wanted to be a Jedi... we don't know how old he was, when Leia sent him away- but he clearly had no choice either. His parents meant well, but in the end maybe it was the Jedi-Training with all those "you have to control your feelings, don't feel anger, don't be afraid.. blah blah" that pushed him over the edge (among other things of course).
@Night Huntress

Reminds me of Elsa. "Conceal, don't feel," eventually blows up in your face. I wonder if Ben will also discover that love is the key to controlling his powers Laughing
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:44 am

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Post by panki on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 2:40 am

@Darth_Awakened

I wonder if this means Lor San Tekka was present at the burning jedi temple in the scene where Luke is putting his hand on R2.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 2:46 am

@panki wrote:
@Darth_Awakened

I wonder if this means Lor San Tekka was present at the burning jedi temple in the scene where Luke is putting his hand on R2.
@panki

Or Luke made a visit to Lor at Jakku afterwords...
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 3:40 am

@panki wrote:
@Darth_Awakened

I wonder if this means Lor San Tekka was present at the burning jedi temple in the scene where Luke is putting his hand on R2.
@panki

If LST was present at the temple burning *and* that situation was more complicated than Anakin 2.0, that could play into why Kylo no love in his heart for LST.
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Post by EchoBase on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 3:43 am

The opening crawl says that LST discovered a clue about Luke's whereabouts. So how can he discover it, when Luke himself gave him the map?
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 3:54 am

@EchoBase wrote:The opening crawl says that LST discovered a clue about Luke's whereabouts. So how can he discover it, when Luke himself gave him the map?
@EchoBase

Another bit in the opening crawl JJ didn't inform PH about. lol!
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Post by EchoBase on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 3:58 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:The opening crawl says that LST discovered a clue about Luke's whereabouts. So how can he discover it, when Luke himself gave him the map?
@EchoBase

Another bit in the opening crawl JJ didn't inform PH about. lol!
@Darth_Awakened

Lol. I fear this could be the case. Which book is this by the way?

Somehow discontinuities bother me, I can't help.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 4:02 am

@EchoBase wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:The opening crawl says that LST discovered a clue about Luke's whereabouts. So how can he discover it, when Luke himself gave him the map?
@EchoBase

Another bit in the opening crawl JJ didn't inform PH about. lol!
@Darth_Awakened

Lol. I fear this could be the case. Which book is this by the way?

Somehow discontinuities bother me, I can't help.
@EchoBase

I don't know.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 6:09 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:The opening crawl says that LST discovered a clue about Luke's whereabouts. So how can he discover it, when Luke himself gave him the map?
@EchoBase

Another bit in the opening crawl JJ didn't inform PH about. lol!
@Darth_Awakened

Lol. I fear this could be the case. Which book is this by the way?

Somehow discontinuities bother me, I can't help.
@EchoBase

I don't know.
@Darth_Awakened

When I followed it up on Reddit, some of the posters were saying that it came from the 2017 Visual Dictionary.  I know that I remember seeing stuff in the 2016 Visual Dictionary that didn't seem to line up with movie canon.  I get the feeling that not all the non-movie content gets sufficient attention.  The original novels seem to get a lot of attention, but other things seem more sloppily done.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 6:40 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:The opening crawl says that LST discovered a clue about Luke's whereabouts. So how can he discover it, when Luke himself gave him the map?
@EchoBase

Another bit in the opening crawl JJ didn't inform PH about. lol!
@Darth_Awakened

Lol. I fear this could be the case. Which book is this by the way?

Somehow discontinuities bother me, I can't help.
@EchoBase

I don't know.
@Darth_Awakened

When I followed it up on Reddit, some of the posters were saying that it came from the 2017 Visual Dictionary.  I know that I remember seeing stuff in the 2016 Visual Dictionary that didn't seem to line up with movie canon.  I get the feeling that not all the non-movie content gets sufficient attention.  The original novels seem to get a lot of attention, but other things seem more sloppily done.
@SoloSideCousin

You'd expect the Visual Dictionaries to be accurate, though, as they're written by Mr Hidalgo himself... Razz

I'm bothered by continuity problems, too, especially ones that could have been avoided with better planning. You've got all the resources in the world. You've even got a highly touted committee dedicated to keeping the canon coherent. You've got the efficient machinery to make tons of money with all this. It's like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create a rich, consistent universe across different media... so I'm much less inclined to give potential continuity problems and lazy content a pass. I'm also quite disappointed if it turns out that the different media don't really mesh together, because what's the point of a consistent universe if they don't?

As you all know, I'm not worried about Reylo or Kylo's redemption in the least, but I've often wondered how many details in TFA are going to be irrelevant or "huh?? what was that all about, then?" when this trilogy is through.

Not that I'm going to lose sleep over it Laughing Just a minor annoyance to a detail-oriented person, that's all.
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Post by rey09 on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 7:51 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:The opening crawl says that LST discovered a clue about Luke's whereabouts. So how can he discover it, when Luke himself gave him the map?
@EchoBase

Another bit in the opening crawl JJ didn't inform PH about. lol!
@Darth_Awakened

Lol. I fear this could be the case. Which book is this by the way?

Somehow discontinuities bother me, I can't help.
@EchoBase

I don't know.
@Darth_Awakened

When I followed it up on Reddit, some of the posters were saying that it came from the 2017 Visual Dictionary.  I know that I remember seeing stuff in the 2016 Visual Dictionary that didn't seem to line up with movie canon.  I get the feeling that not all the non-movie content gets sufficient attention.  The original novels seem to get a lot of attention, but other things seem more sloppily done.
@SoloSideCousin

You'd expect the Visual Dictionaries to be accurate, though, as they're written by Mr Hidalgo himself... Razz

I'm bothered by continuity problems, too, especially ones that could have been avoided with better planning. You've got all the resources in the world. You've even got a highly touted committee dedicated to keeping the canon coherent. You've got the efficient machinery to make tons of money with all this. It's like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create a rich, consistent universe across different media... so I'm much less inclined to give potential continuity problems and lazy content a pass. I'm also quite disappointed if it turns out that the different media don't really mesh together, because what's the point of a consistent universe if they don't?

As you all know, I'm not worried about Reylo or Kylo's redemption in the least, but I've often wondered how many details in TFA are going to be irrelevant or "huh?? what was that all about, then?" when this trilogy is through.

Not that I'm going to lose sleep over it Laughing Just a minor annoyance to a detail-oriented person, that's all.
@Darth Dingbat Yeah I wish SW had its own JRR Tolkien or GRRM type, but sadly George Lucas lost himself that role. Otherwise, at least we could have depended on one sole author who knows how everything will unfold. Now we rely on multiple people to make these stories up. That's a big reason why I'm glad JJ is back for 9, because it will go along his and Rian's version, it's one/two persons idea (I have high hopes in Rian and it seems like he studied JJ's work very closely). Stand alones are one thing, but a trilogy is another, they just have to connect. I prefer one director at the helm for any future sequels.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 4:58 am

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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 10:52 am

@Darth_Awakened

It's that the same thing he wears in the VF pics? But only the colors are different.

Man, Jedi fashion is pretty consistent and boring.
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Post by IoJovi on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 11:04 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Darth_Awakened

It's that the same thing he wears in the VF pics? But only the colors are different.

Man, Jedi fashion is pretty consistent and boring.
@Rei of Sunshine

At least Palpatine knew how to dress in the PT, with all that burgundy velvet... Laughing

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 11:43 am

@Darth_Awakened

I remember MSW saying a while back that they knew about another costume change for Luke (it always sounded like this was a different costume than his than his TFA look or brown "patchwork" costume), but that they couldn't talk about the reason for the costume change yet. I wonder if this is that costume.
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Post by Guest on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:02 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Darth_Awakened

It's that the same thing he wears in the VF pics? But only the colors are different.

Man, Jedi fashion is pretty consistent and boring.
@Rei of Sunshine

At least Palpatine knew how to dress in the PT, with all that burgundy velvet... Laughing

@IoJovi

Skywalkers and Palpatines; rocking fashion icons since before you were born, even though it looks like the future.

I do love what a media ham MH is.

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Post by snufkin on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:10 pm

Maybe it's from growing up in California and all the school field trips to Missions, but that outfit looks like the type of robes Dominican priests wore during the Spanish and Mexican eras (like 15th to 19th century).
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Post by tukicarreno on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:15 pm

Anyone knows if that Mike Zeroh spoiler of a battle in the third act with Kylo attempting to kill Rey until Luke comes? What?
Really hope this is fake as usually most of his videos are. How can their battle take place in the third act? Rolling Eyes
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:26 pm

@tukicarreno wrote:Anyone knows if that Mike Zeroh spoiler of a battle in the third act with Kylo attempting to kill Rey until Luke comes? What?
Really hope this is fake as usually most of his videos are. How can their battle take place in the third act? Rolling Eyes
@tukicarreno


You should put it into the crack spoiler thread. That's where Zeroh's stuff belong and I'm being generous with Mike Zeroh informations.


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