Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 3:04 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:
@panki wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:I am at 28%, chapter 15. Too much leisure stuff at the same time so I had to set priorities and Phasma had to wait Smile Now I can focus on it. So far I like it. I especially like that Phasma's story is told not from her perspective but through someone who told someone who is telling someone else. It gives the whole story a touch of myth and one might wonder if it's all true. I also like the tug of war between Cardinal and Vi. The greyness of it all reminds me of Inferno Squad. Seems to become a trademark of SW books. It really feels like war. Although in terms of greyness, I'd say that

Spoiler:
Phasma does not seem to move herself in the greyness zone, but is standing rather firmly in the black zone.

Brendol Hux reminds me of some managers in my company. So depending on what he does, he gets the face of manager A, B or C in my head.
@SanghaRen

I agree.  Most of the characters seem to be pretty firmly "grey".

Another thing that I forgot to bring up that I thought was interesting:

spoiler:

Vi offers Cardinal a full pardon to leave the First Order and come to the Resistance. (If I remember correctly, she makes this offer more than once.)

Given that Cardinal is fairly high-ranking within the FO, I wonder if this might be a hint of how a redeemed Ben Solo might be offered a pardon, if he ends up helping the Resistance.
@ISeeAnIsland

I noticed that as well and immediately thought it might foreshadow Kylo defecting to the resistance by episode 9...but on second thought, it could also mean Phasma tries to change sides when she thinks the FO is losing. (I hope that isn't the case though)  Suspect
@panki

Yes, I was thinking about Kylo too for that, but

Spoiler:
are we sure Vi is telling the truth? A full pardon sounds like a big thing, unless they put him under witness protection with only a few people knowing about it. The main crowd will never accept that - cf the Vader reveal in Bloodline - and I could imagine that even within the Resistance some will never accept it. But yeah, that alleged scene of Leia slapping Poe could be him not being happy about Kylo getting a bargain for his help in bringing down the FO.

Phasma leaving when it gets too troublesome to her taste would not surprise me, but I can't imagine Leia falling for that.
@SanghaRen

I felt like

spoiler:

I thought that Vi was sincere in her offer. She made it clear that she thought that Cardinal was a good person who had been duped into doing bad things.

Phasma always being out for herself, no matter who got hurt or killed in the process, was largely foreshadowing how quickly she disabled the shields for Finn when she thought that her own life was in danger.

Dawson very clearly painted a picture of a Phasma, I thought, who really had no loyalty to the First Order, beyond the fact that it served her ambition. I could see Phasma wanting to flip sides if she thought that the Resistance was winning--she had a history of wanting to be on the "winning team", but I also don't think we'll see a scenario where the Resistance is winning the war until the end of IX.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by SanghaRen on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 3:21 pm

@IoJovi wrote: I'm at exactly the 50% mark, and I'm absolutely loving it.  It really is a page turner.  I saw it described as Mad Max meets Star Wars and that's about as accurate as it gets.  

Oh yes, the characters are pretty grey.  Even Phasma I think starts out that way, but she gets progressively darker as the story goes on. 

Spoiler:
I can't imagine living that way among her people.  Grey or black, she and the rest of her tribe are tough cookies!  Although both dark characters, I really like the contrast between her and Brendol Hux.  It's clear the two are worlds apart.  I really do hope she is the one who ultimately killed him.  He's a coward in the worst possible way.  
@IoJovi

Funny about Mad Max. Were you in the writer panel at the SWC where Delilah Dawson mentioned listening to the Fury Road soundtrack (and Star Wars soundtrack) while writing the book? I wanted to give her a hug.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by SanghaRen on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 11:50 am

I am 80% in the book. I don't know if I'll make it to read the last 20% today. Siv has really grown on me. She's the opposite of Phasma. She reminds me of the female protagonist of Avatar with her attachment to the cycle of life and honesty and general empathy towards all living beins. Seeing the story through her eyes, it sometimes reminded me of everything I despise in our society. This part for instance is for me a perfect description of the corporate environment and what is wrong with it.

Spoiler:

Replace the droids by people in suits Very Happy and  Crying or Very sad



I liked that she still wanted to save them.

And this part resonates with me too, because indeed who else than humans can cause such destruction.

Spoiler:



For a SW book, it is dark. My, the female authors are worse than their male counterparts  Shocked Already, Inferno Squad was violent with acts of terror and torture but going down the road of

Spoiler:

Cannibalism... Holy Sith! It made me think of a sort of female Mad Max movie called Doomsday which in its uncut version has a cannibalism scene which I cannot watch in spite of watching zombie movies sometimes.

I nearly screamed when Rae Sloane was mentioned and I don't know if she'll be mentioned again in the last 20%, but

Spoiler:

Where is she? Why is she not here? I hope they do say in the last 20% because it's freaky cruel to drop her being absent matter-of-factly and not explain.

It's tiring to put everything under spoiler tags  Smile Last one on the difference between Armitage and Phasma

Spoiler:


So Hux is worse than Phasma who's worse than Cardinal. I wonder, does that mean Phasma still has a heart somewhere. Doubtful if you see all the corpses she left behind, but I find it funny that she finds Armitage too harsh. And I also wonder where Kylo fits in all of this. Does he ever have contact with the kids? I doubt the movies will give us an answer.


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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by IoJovi on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 12:58 pm

So I just finished the book. What a ride!!! Wow. I have so much to say right now which has the potential to go off in so many different directions. I'll try to keep it concise.

Spoiler:
@Panki I couldn't agree more about how unlikely it would be for Finn to kill Phasma. Love her or hate her, her skill level, both mentally and physically is beyond almost everyone in the GFFA. Even the way she's able to remain one step ahead of all those oppose her suggests maybe even a low level of Force sensitivity. Even without that aspect, she's formidable. I would never want to cross her. The one scene that made me verbally cry out was when she jumped up from the arena below and beheaded the Arrutu. I was not expecting that and was just as entertained by it as the crowd!

THAT being said, ever since the rumor surfaced that Phasma dies in TLJ, my head canon tells me it's Kylo Ren who does the job. Now that would be a fight to behold. Unlike his fight with Rey where he was clearly holding back, imagine his full force and rage against Phasma. Anyone who dares say he's weak will eat their words.

@SanghaRen I whole heartedly agree about Siv. I loved her. It goes to show that while it's hinted Phasma is the way she is because she's a product of the environment that produced her, that isn't the only factor. Siv has a love for all living things, the cycle of life and finds it sacreligious when things go to waste, even partially rotten meat. Some might find it morbid, but I thought the ceremony involving the detraxors and taking the nutrients from the dead and passing them into the living was beautiful. I wanted to smack Brendol for turning his nose up at it. He was such a coward in general and by the end of the book, I was truly hating him.

I also love the continuation of good and bad characters being shown on both sides. Cardinal is clearly a good person, refusing to kill unless it's necessary. Even Phasma, for all her coldness, has a few soft spots. She was right, Siv is soft, but it was also soft of her to direct her to a medical facility when she was clearly a person who knew Phasma's past and where she comes from. It was funny to me that she didn't mention Siv at all when reminiscing at the end about the number of folks still living who knew who she actually was. And unlike Brendol, I don't hate Phasma or despise her. Even when contrasted to Siv, it's easy to see how a harsh environment would produce a person like her, and I can't bring myself to hate her for it.

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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by SanghaRen on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 3:11 pm

I finished the book too.

Regarding the First Order leader, @ISeeAnIsland

Spoiler:

I did not read your spoiler tags until now. That part about the first set of leaders also stroke me and my first reaction was that Snoke wiped them out. I wonder if that will be mentioned somewhere in TLJ or some more mainstream media because it's intriguing.



Also the unmasking after the "monster" accusation was really a nice callback.

I felt for Iris. Amazing how some droids get so human in SW. It made me think of Del and his pet droid. I thought that part was funny.

Spoiler:



And I felt sad when she died. Damn Phasma!

I am not sure I share your view on Phasma, @IoJovi. You know whom she reminds me of in a way? Walt from Breaking Bad and

Spoiler:

As much as I could sometimes understand how he got there, I wanted him dead. Same for Phasma. To me she's too far gone and one could say she has never been anything else than what she is. I could have gone for feeling some compassion, but with what she did to her brother and family at a young age, I'd say that even in a nurturing environment chances are high she would have one day or the other just decided she wanted more and worked on removing the obstacles. She belongs with Armitage in the category non redeemable imo. They do deserve each other and it would be fun if these 2 decided to go after the other's head. I don't hate any of the 2 because they both had their obstacles but I think there was already something quite dark in them - a lack of empathy maybe - that just blossomed in their hostile childhood and teenagehood environments. Phasma might have soft spots but she's highly unpredictable and dangerous to everyone so I say "die Phasma!" Laughing That being said, she has Gwendoline Christie's features in the movie so that is my only conflict. GC seems like such a nice person.

And now we know why she wears a chrome armor Very Happy That is the prize for reading the book.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by IoJovi on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 3:28 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:I finished the book too.

Regarding the First Order leader, @ISeeAnIsland

Spoiler:

I did not read your spoiler tags until now. That part about the first set of leaders also stroke me and my first reaction was that Snoke wiped them out. I wonder if that will be mentioned somewhere in TLJ or some more mainstream media because it's intriguing.



Also the unmasking after the "monster" accusation was really a nice callback.

I felt for Iris. Amazing how some droids get so human in SW. It made me think of Del and his pet droid. I thought that part was funny.

Spoiler:



And I felt sad when she died. Damn Phasma!

I am not sure I share your view on Phasma, @IoJovi. You know whom she reminds me of in a way? Walt from Breaking Bad and

Spoiler:

As much as I could sometimes understand how he got there, I wanted him dead. Same for Phasma. To me she's too far gone and one could say she has never been anything else than what she is. I could have gone for feeling some compassion, but with what she did to her brother and family at a young age, I'd say that even in a nurturing environment chances are high she would have one day or the other just decided she wanted more and worked on removing the obstacles. She belongs with Armitage in the category non redeemable imo. They do deserve each other and it would be fun if these 2 decided to go after the other's head. I don't hate any of the 2 because they both had their obstacles but I think there was already something quite dark in them - a lack of empathy maybe - that just blossomed in their hostile childhood and teenagehood environments. Phasma might have soft spots but she's highly unpredictable and dangerous to everyone so I say "die Phasma!" Laughing That being said, she has Gwendoline Christie's features in the movie so that is my only conflict. GC seems like such a nice person.

And now we know why she wears a chrome armor Very Happy That is the prize for reading the book.
@SanghaRen

Spoiler:
When I said soft as to how it relates to Phasma, I meant just a smidgen of a hint that's she's still human. She is definitely beyond redemption, or being remotely capable of functioning in a normal society. She's a sociopath in the sense she has no feeling or empathy for anyone. I do still think growing up on Parnassos played a factor in molding her into the person we see now, but even had she grown up in a much more forgiving environment, we'd still see hints of that person. I do think that having Siv's character not only fills the role of having a likeable character in the lead, but also as a contrast to Phasma who did grow up in that environment alongside her.

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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by adamdrivershair on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 3:31 pm

Great thoughts @IoJovi and @SanghaRen! I just finished the book too.

Spoiler:
I think the thing that surprised me most was that Cardinal survived. I was completely expecting a death that glorifies just how deadly Phasma is. But in the end, Dawson went for a traditionally-SW ending of hope and reconciliation.

Because I'm Reylo trash, I kept finding parallels throughout the book. Like @ISeeAnIsland said, it's an unconventional interrogation, man vs. woman, with an unmasking from the man at the woman's prompting. Vi even finds him attractive. She tells him, "I still think you can be flipped" and "I think you're actually a good man under all that vicious red armor." She also takes the same position towards lying in the interrogation that Kylo does: it's to her advantage to lie, but she chooses not to. They both know each other's secrets. I don't know if "intimacy" is the right word, but in that claustrophobic room, there's something like that going on. Makes you wonder what happened between them after the book ends.

The other Reylo parallel I spotted: language use about "intertwined" paths:

"She felt that Phasma and Brendol had just reached an unspoken arrangement, that they had some prior understanding of how their paths would... well, not intersect. Probably not intertwine, either, as Phasma didn't seem to particularly like him. Align was probably the better word."

Huh - so apparently it takes some level of fond feeling to have intertwined paths, eh?  Wink
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by IoJovi on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 3:41 pm

@adamdrivershair wrote:Great thoughts @IoJovi and @SanghaRen! I just finished the book too.

Spoiler:
I think the thing that surprised me most was that Cardinal survived. I was completely expecting a death that glorifies just how deadly Phasma is. But in the end, Dawson went for a traditionally-SW ending of hope and reconciliation.

Because I'm Reylo trash, I kept finding parallels throughout the book. Like @ISeeAnIsland said, it's an unconventional interrogation, man vs. woman, with an unmasking from the man at the woman's prompting. Vi even finds him attractive. She tells him, "I still think you can be flipped" and "I think you're actually a good man under all that vicious red armor." She also takes the same position towards lying in the interrogation that Kylo does: it's to her advantage to lie, but she chooses not to. They both know each other's secrets. I don't know if "intimacy" is the right word, but in that claustrophobic room, there's something like that going on. Makes you wonder what happened between them after the book ends.

The other Reylo parallel I spotted: language use about "intertwined" paths:

"She felt that Phasma and Brendol had just reached an unspoken arrangement, that they had some prior understanding of how their paths would... well, not intersect. Probably not intertwine, either, as Phasma didn't seem to particularly like him. Align was probably the better word."

Huh - so apparently it takes some level of fond feeling to have intertwined paths, eh?  Wink
@adamdrivershair

Spoiler:
You and I are of the same mind!!! I'm like....I wonder if I'm the only one seeing a hint of *something* between Vi and Cardinal... Laughing Especially since they end up leaving together in the end. There was also a line in there stating he had never been with a woman, and not only that, but it hit you over the head with how much he basically missed out on in life due to his loyalty to the FO. Even if we never know, I love the continued message of hope.

And oh yes I caught the line about about intertwined paths too....

The author is an admitted Kylux shipper so it's hard to know if it was on purpose, a coincidence, or something LF told her to put in. And yes, the hint at Kylux had me shaking my head because it's not subtle at all, even if it would go over the remainder of the GA's head who have never heard of shipping...

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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by adamdrivershair on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 7:01 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@adamdrivershair wrote:Great thoughts @IoJovi and @SanghaRen! I just finished the book too.

Spoiler:
I think the thing that surprised me most was that Cardinal survived. I was completely expecting a death that glorifies just how deadly Phasma is. But in the end, Dawson went for a traditionally-SW ending of hope and reconciliation.

Because I'm Reylo trash, I kept finding parallels throughout the book. Like @ISeeAnIsland said, it's an unconventional interrogation, man vs. woman, with an unmasking from the man at the woman's prompting. Vi even finds him attractive. She tells him, "I still think you can be flipped" and "I think you're actually a good man under all that vicious red armor." She also takes the same position towards lying in the interrogation that Kylo does: it's to her advantage to lie, but she chooses not to. They both know each other's secrets. I don't know if "intimacy" is the right word, but in that claustrophobic room, there's something like that going on. Makes you wonder what happened between them after the book ends.

The other Reylo parallel I spotted: language use about "intertwined" paths:

"She felt that Phasma and Brendol had just reached an unspoken arrangement, that they had some prior understanding of how their paths would... well, not intersect. Probably not intertwine, either, as Phasma didn't seem to particularly like him. Align was probably the better word."

Huh - so apparently it takes some level of fond feeling to have intertwined paths, eh?  Wink
@adamdrivershair

Spoiler:
You and I are of the same mind!!! I'm like....I wonder if I'm the only one seeing a hint of *something* between Vi and Cardinal... Laughing Especially since they end up leaving together in the end. There was also a line in there stating he had never been with a woman, and not only that, but it hit you over the head with how much he basically missed out on in life due to his loyalty to the FO. Even if we never know, I love the continued message of hope.

And oh yes I caught the line about about intertwined paths too....

The author is an admitted Kylux shipper so it's hard to know if it was on purpose, a coincidence, or something LF told her to put in. And yes, the hint at Kylux had me shaking my head because it's not subtle at all, even if it would go over the remainder of the GA's head who have never heard of shipping...

@IoJovi

What reference to Kylux are you referring to?
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by IoJovi on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 7:06 pm

@adamdrivershair wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@adamdrivershair wrote:Great thoughts @IoJovi and @SanghaRen! I just finished the book too.

Spoiler:
I think the thing that surprised me most was that Cardinal survived. I was completely expecting a death that glorifies just how deadly Phasma is. But in the end, Dawson went for a traditionally-SW ending of hope and reconciliation.

Because I'm Reylo trash, I kept finding parallels throughout the book. Like @ISeeAnIsland said, it's an unconventional interrogation, man vs. woman, with an unmasking from the man at the woman's prompting. Vi even finds him attractive. She tells him, "I still think you can be flipped" and "I think you're actually a good man under all that vicious red armor." She also takes the same position towards lying in the interrogation that Kylo does: it's to her advantage to lie, but she chooses not to. They both know each other's secrets. I don't know if "intimacy" is the right word, but in that claustrophobic room, there's something like that going on. Makes you wonder what happened between them after the book ends.

The other Reylo parallel I spotted: language use about "intertwined" paths:

"She felt that Phasma and Brendol had just reached an unspoken arrangement, that they had some prior understanding of how their paths would... well, not intersect. Probably not intertwine, either, as Phasma didn't seem to particularly like him. Align was probably the better word."

Huh - so apparently it takes some level of fond feeling to have intertwined paths, eh?  Wink
@adamdrivershair

Spoiler:
You and I are of the same mind!!!  I'm like....I wonder if I'm the only one seeing a hint of *something* between Vi and Cardinal...  Laughing  Especially since they end up leaving together in the end.  There was also a line in there stating he had never been with a woman, and not only that, but it hit you over the head with how much he basically missed out on in life due to his loyalty to the FO.  Even if we never know, I love the continued message of hope.

And oh yes I caught the line about about intertwined paths too....

The author is an admitted Kylux shipper so it's hard to know if it was on purpose, a coincidence, or something LF told her to put in.  And yes, the hint at Kylux had me shaking my head because it's not subtle at all, even if it would go over the remainder of the GA's head who have never heard of shipping...

@IoJovi

What reference to Kylux are you referring to?
@adamdrivershair

Spoiler:
It's the part where Cardinal visits Hux in his room, and he answers the door, wearing a bathrobe.  They have a conversation about Phasma and Hux reveals he had planned his father's death with Phasma.  Cardinal leaves, disappointed.  The last line in that chapter says that Hux is about to meet with Kylo, and that Kylo Ren doesn't like to be kept waiting... Laughing

There's also a paragraph in between there about Hux and Kylo having very similar taste in decor...
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by adamdrivershair on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 7:11 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@adamdrivershair wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@adamdrivershair wrote:Great thoughts @IoJovi and @SanghaRen! I just finished the book too.

Spoiler:
I think the thing that surprised me most was that Cardinal survived. I was completely expecting a death that glorifies just how deadly Phasma is. But in the end, Dawson went for a traditionally-SW ending of hope and reconciliation.

Because I'm Reylo trash, I kept finding parallels throughout the book. Like @ISeeAnIsland said, it's an unconventional interrogation, man vs. woman, with an unmasking from the man at the woman's prompting. Vi even finds him attractive. She tells him, "I still think you can be flipped" and "I think you're actually a good man under all that vicious red armor." She also takes the same position towards lying in the interrogation that Kylo does: it's to her advantage to lie, but she chooses not to. They both know each other's secrets. I don't know if "intimacy" is the right word, but in that claustrophobic room, there's something like that going on. Makes you wonder what happened between them after the book ends.

The other Reylo parallel I spotted: language use about "intertwined" paths:

"She felt that Phasma and Brendol had just reached an unspoken arrangement, that they had some prior understanding of how their paths would... well, not intersect. Probably not intertwine, either, as Phasma didn't seem to particularly like him. Align was probably the better word."

Huh - so apparently it takes some level of fond feeling to have intertwined paths, eh?  Wink
@adamdrivershair

Spoiler:
You and I are of the same mind!!!  I'm like....I wonder if I'm the only one seeing a hint of *something* between Vi and Cardinal...  Laughing  Especially since they end up leaving together in the end.  There was also a line in there stating he had never been with a woman, and not only that, but it hit you over the head with how much he basically missed out on in life due to his loyalty to the FO.  Even if we never know, I love the continued message of hope.

And oh yes I caught the line about about intertwined paths too....

The author is an admitted Kylux shipper so it's hard to know if it was on purpose, a coincidence, or something LF told her to put in.  And yes, the hint at Kylux had me shaking my head because it's not subtle at all, even if it would go over the remainder of the GA's head who have never heard of shipping...

@IoJovi

What reference to Kylux are you referring to?
@adamdrivershair

Spoiler:
It's the part where Cardinal visits Hux in his room, and he answers the door, wearing a bathrobe.  They have a conversation about Phasma and Hux reveals he had planned his father's death with Phasma.  Cardinal leaves, disappointed.  The last line in that chapter says that Hux is about to meet with Kylo, and that Kylo Ren doesn't like to be kept waiting... Laughing

There's also a paragraph in between there about Hux and Kylo having very similar taste in decor...
@IoJovi

It seems like Dawson likes to slip little things in like that - Kylux, the sand meme, the names of her kids. Why not, I guess!
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 9:05 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@adamdrivershair wrote:Great thoughts @IoJovi and @SanghaRen! I just finished the book too.

Spoiler:
I think the thing that surprised me most was that Cardinal survived. I was completely expecting a death that glorifies just how deadly Phasma is. But in the end, Dawson went for a traditionally-SW ending of hope and reconciliation.

Because I'm Reylo trash, I kept finding parallels throughout the book. Like @ISeeAnIsland said, it's an unconventional interrogation, man vs. woman, with an unmasking from the man at the woman's prompting. Vi even finds him attractive. She tells him, "I still think you can be flipped" and "I think you're actually a good man under all that vicious red armor." She also takes the same position towards lying in the interrogation that Kylo does: it's to her advantage to lie, but she chooses not to. They both know each other's secrets. I don't know if "intimacy" is the right word, but in that claustrophobic room, there's something like that going on. Makes you wonder what happened between them after the book ends.

The other Reylo parallel I spotted: language use about "intertwined" paths:

"She felt that Phasma and Brendol had just reached an unspoken arrangement, that they had some prior understanding of how their paths would... well, not intersect. Probably not intertwine, either, as Phasma didn't seem to particularly like him. Align was probably the better word."

Huh - so apparently it takes some level of fond feeling to have intertwined paths, eh?  Wink
@adamdrivershair

Spoiler:
You and I are of the same mind!!! I'm like....I wonder if I'm the only one seeing a hint of *something* between Vi and Cardinal... Laughing Especially since they end up leaving together in the end. There was also a line in there stating he had never been with a woman, and not only that, but it hit you over the head with how much he basically missed out on in life due to his loyalty to the FO. Even if we never know, I love the continued message of hope.

And oh yes I caught the line about about intertwined paths too....

The author is an admitted Kylux shipper so it's hard to know if it was on purpose, a coincidence, or something LF told her to put in. And yes, the hint at Kylux had me shaking my head because it's not subtle at all, even if it would go over the remainder of the GA's head who have never heard of shipping...

@IoJovi

Right!

spoiler:

I wouldn't say that I shipped Cardinal and Vi...yet. But I did definitely get a feeling of mutual respect and perhaps a little affection there.

I was also expecting Cardinal to die at Phasma's hand at the end, so I was ecstatic that he escaped with Vi. I really hope that they were able to get to Siv and her daughter and for Vi to help the three of them start new lives after the end of the novel.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by Man Without A Star on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 11:26 am

I finally finished the audiobook today. I really enjoyed it! Also, it was one of the few novels that remained almost completely spoiler-free for me, which was a nice change after reading the several past books Very Happy

I count myself among those who were really dissapointed with Phasma in TFA. Nice looks but thats about it. After reading this novel however, Phasma became one of those villains that I love to hate. Her character and decisions were really ruthless and I did not expect her to be that cold. My hats of to Delilah S. Dawson, for writing a really compelling story that takes one of the few, but really underwhelming aspects of TFA and managing to turn her into an unexpectedly merciless and selfish character, that I am really excited to see in TLJ.

Even though the story on Pharnassos got a bit boring sometimes, I wanted to know more and kept going.
Spoiler:
All the sudden droids, stations, cities felt a little too convenient at first, but revelation about the nuclear disaster made sense in the end.
The cannibalism parts were unsettling, but felt natural because of how the story was set.
The beetles though? Yay! Nasty flashback to Cloverfield.

Another thing that I did not expect at all from the book was the interrogation part. That is something I have not yet seen in SW and the execution was amazing imo. I liked Vi instantly, and Cardinal really grew on my by the end. The insights into First Order were also really interesting. They added a new layer to Finn's defection and I think that they opened up interesting opportunities for other stormtroopers.

Overall, great book! Great characters, tension, pacing, but most importantly - Phasma herself. Although the desert part felt too repetive sometimes, I kept listening because I wanted more. It provided a new layer of backstory for the ST and it has made me appreciate TFA more. Also, just like Catalyst for Rogue One, I am certain, that it will enjoy my first viewing of TLJ that much more.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:50 pm

@Man Without A Star

Cool, someone else read the book! I mean, listened to it Smile I really have to watch Cloverfield one day. The little nasty beasts had me think about The Mummy.

Yes, I look forward to Phasma getting her a** kicked in TLJ after reading the book.

The desert parts really felt like Mad Max. But then in the arena I kept picturing Joaquim Phoenix even if the description did not fit. He was so convincingly creepy in Gladiator.

One thing that still bugs me is:

Spoiler:

What happened to Elli? I mean I can imagine, but the fact that they leave her there fatally wounded but still alive, made me really sick. How cruel of Delilah Dawson. Sure she knew what she was doing. It's worse when it's left unexplained.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by IoJovi on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:54 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:@Man Without A Star

Cool, someone else read the book! I mean, listened to it Smile I really have to watch Cloverfield one day. The little nasty beasts had me think about The Mummy.

Yes, I look forward to Phasma getting her a** kicked in TLJ after reading the book.

The desert parts really felt like Mad Max. But then in the arena I kept picturing Joaquim Phoenix even if the description did not fit. He was so convincingly creepy in Gladiator.

One thing that still bugs me is:

Spoiler:

What happened to Elli? I mean I can imagine, but the fact that they leave her there fatally wounded but still alive, made me really sick. How cruel of Delilah Dawson. Sure she knew what she was doing. It's worse when it's left unexplained.
@SanghaRen

Spoiler:
Elli was eaten alive by their cell mates who were starving.  Disturbing, I know.  I was actually more disturbed by the graphic detail in which Carr died, and later, Brendol Hux.  That would be a truly horrible way to go!  

@Man Without A Star I concur about the parallel to Cloverfield - that was truly awful!!  affraid


Last edited by IoJovi on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by Man Without A Star on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:57 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:@Man Without A Star

Cool, someone else read the book! I mean, listened to it Smile I really have to watch Cloverfield one day. The little nasty beasts had me think about The Mummy.

Yes, I look forward to Phasma getting her a** kicked in TLJ after reading the book.

The desert parts really felt like Mad Max. But then in the arena I kept picturing Joaquim Phoenix even if the description did not fit. He was so convincingly creepy in Gladiator.

One thing that still bugs me is:

Spoiler:

What happened to Elli? I mean I can imagine, but the fact that they leave her there fatally wounded but still alive, made me really sick. How cruel of Delilah Dawson. Sure she knew what she was doing. It's worse when it's left unexplained.
@SanghaRen

Spot on!

The book felt like a strange mix of Mad Max, Gladiator and Cloverfield, but it worked really well Very Happy
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:13 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:@Man Without A Star

Cool, someone else read the book! I mean, listened to it Smile I really have to watch Cloverfield one day. The little nasty beasts had me think about The Mummy.

Yes, I look forward to Phasma getting her a** kicked in TLJ after reading the book.

The desert parts really felt like Mad Max. But then in the arena I kept picturing Joaquim Phoenix even if the description did not fit. He was so convincingly creepy in Gladiator.

One thing that still bugs me is:

Spoiler:

What happened to Elli? I mean I can imagine, but the fact that they leave her there fatally wounded but still alive, made me really sick. How cruel of Delilah Dawson. Sure she knew what she was doing. It's worse when it's left unexplained.
@SanghaRen

spoiler:

I thought that it was strongly hinted at that the other inmates likely ate Elli...

There was a line about how some of them had distended bellies when the group returned.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by Man Without A Star on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:23 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:@Man Without A Star

Cool, someone else read the book! I mean, listened to it Smile I really have to watch Cloverfield one day. The little nasty beasts had me think about The Mummy.

Yes, I look forward to Phasma getting her a** kicked in TLJ after reading the book.

The desert parts really felt like Mad Max. But then in the arena I kept picturing Joaquim Phoenix even if the description did not fit. He was so convincingly creepy in Gladiator.

One thing that still bugs me is:

Spoiler:

What happened to Elli? I mean I can imagine, but the fact that they leave her there fatally wounded but still alive, made me really sick. How cruel of Delilah Dawson. Sure she knew what she was doing. It's worse when it's left unexplained.
@SanghaRen

spoiler:

I thought that it was strongly hinted at that the other inmates likely ate Elli...

There was a line about how some of them had distended bellies when the group returned.
@ISeeAnIsland

Spoiler:
Yup, they ate Elli. Not only they said they had distended bellies, the body was nowhere to be found.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:39 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:@Man Without A Star

Cool, someone else read the book! I mean, listened to it Smile I really have to watch Cloverfield one day. The little nasty beasts had me think about The Mummy.

Yes, I look forward to Phasma getting her a** kicked in TLJ after reading the book.

The desert parts really felt like Mad Max. But then in the arena I kept picturing Joaquim Phoenix even if the description did not fit. He was so convincingly creepy in Gladiator.

One thing that still bugs me is:

Spoiler:

What happened to Elli? I mean I can imagine, but the fact that they leave her there fatally wounded but still alive, made me really sick. How cruel of Delilah Dawson. Sure she knew what she was doing. It's worse when it's left unexplained.
@SanghaRen

spoiler:

I thought that it was strongly hinted at that the other inmates likely ate Elli...

There was a line about how some of them had distended bellies when the group returned.
@ISeeAnIsland

Spoiler:

Oh yes, I know, but my concern is whether she was alive and awake. I am probably the only one thinking about such gory detail, but I can't help it. I was hoping she would die just before they left or someone would finish her before leaving. They all know how to kill so I was surprised none of them just finished her in one clean move. I am thinking too much, but that part of the book made me highly uncomfortable. Post mortem cannibalism is one thing, zombie like cannibalism is another in my book. But let's say she was still unconscious and felt nothing.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by Man Without A Star on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:44 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:@Man Without A Star

Cool, someone else read the book! I mean, listened to it Smile I really have to watch Cloverfield one day. The little nasty beasts had me think about The Mummy.

Yes, I look forward to Phasma getting her a** kicked in TLJ after reading the book.

The desert parts really felt like Mad Max. But then in the arena I kept picturing Joaquim Phoenix even if the description did not fit. He was so convincingly creepy in Gladiator.

One thing that still bugs me is:

Spoiler:

What happened to Elli? I mean I can imagine, but the fact that they leave her there fatally wounded but still alive, made me really sick. How cruel of Delilah Dawson. Sure she knew what she was doing. It's worse when it's left unexplained.
@SanghaRen

spoiler:

I thought that it was strongly hinted at that the other inmates likely ate Elli...

There was a line about how some of them had distended bellies when the group returned.
@ISeeAnIsland

Spoiler:

Oh yes, I know, but my concern is whether she was alive and awake. I am probably the only one thinking about such gory detail, but I can't help it. I was hoping she would die just before they left or someone would finish her before leaving. They all know how to kill so I was surprised none of them just finished her in one clean move. I am thinking too much, but that part of the book made me highly uncomfortable. Post mortem cannibalism is one thing, zombie like cannibalism is another in my book. But let's say she was still unconscious and felt nothing.
@SanghaRen

Spoiler:
As disturbing as it is, I understood the scene such as that they most likely started to eat her when she was still breathing. Those people were in such a poor state that I doubt they would mercifully kill her before the thing that followed..
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by SanghaRen on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:59 pm

@Man Without A Star

I know. *shudders to get rid of the picture forming in her head*

If you had told me some weeks ago we would be discussing c... after reading a SW book, I would have not believed you. Delilah Dawson certainly left her mark Smile
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 3:21 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:@Man Without A Star

Cool, someone else read the book! I mean, listened to it Smile I really have to watch Cloverfield one day. The little nasty beasts had me think about The Mummy.

Yes, I look forward to Phasma getting her a** kicked in TLJ after reading the book.

The desert parts really felt like Mad Max. But then in the arena I kept picturing Joaquim Phoenix even if the description did not fit. He was so convincingly creepy in Gladiator.

One thing that still bugs me is:

Spoiler:

What happened to Elli? I mean I can imagine, but the fact that they leave her there fatally wounded but still alive, made me really sick. How cruel of Delilah Dawson. Sure she knew what she was doing. It's worse when it's left unexplained.
@SanghaRen

spoiler:

I thought that it was strongly hinted at that the other inmates likely ate Elli...

There was a line about how some of them had distended bellies when the group returned.
@ISeeAnIsland

Spoiler:

Oh yes, I know, but my concern is whether she was alive and awake. I am probably the only one thinking about such gory detail, but I can't help it. I was hoping she would die just before they left or someone would finish her before leaving. They all know how to kill so I was surprised none of them just finished her in one clean move. I am thinking too much, but that part of the book made me highly uncomfortable. Post mortem cannibalism is one thing, zombie like cannibalism is another in my book. But let's say she was still unconscious and felt nothing.
@SanghaRen

spoiler:
In my head, I like to think that she was dead before they started eating her. Whether she finally died on her own, or they killed her.

Granted, if it was the more gruesome option (eaten alive), she had a broken neck if I recall, and hopefully didn't feel much.
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 2:46 pm

Huh. Well, this little promo video from the official Star Wars twitter certainly seems to contradict some of what we learned about Phasma in the Phasma novel:

https://twitter.com/starwars/status/909492161971855360
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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by IoJovi on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 3:12 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:Huh. Well, this little promo video from the official Star Wars twitter certainly seems to contradict some of what we learned about Phasma in the Phasma novel:

https://twitter.com/starwars/status/909492161971855360
@ISeeAnIsland

That is extremely odd. You would think as hard of a grip the Story Group has on continuity, something this glaring of a contradiction wouldn't fall through the cracks. The whole point of the Phasma novel was to outline that she was loyal to no one but herself.

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Re: Phasma Novel Discussion (Speculation, Reviews, and Spoilers)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 3:48 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:Huh. Well, this little promo video from the official Star Wars twitter certainly seems to contradict some of what we learned about Phasma in the Phasma novel:

https://twitter.com/starwars/status/909492161971855360
@ISeeAnIsland

That is extremely odd. You would think as hard of a grip the Story Group has on continuity, something this glaring of a contradiction wouldn't fall through the cracks. The whole point of the Phasma novel was to outline that she was loyal to no one but herself.

@IoJovi

Right. I don't know how much the story group/continuity people have to do with promos like this, but I agree that's a glaring contradiction. I wonder if Comics Phasma is more similar to the promo. But if that's the case, I'm surprised that they allowed the Phasma novel to be published with the characterization that it paints.
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