J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by MyOnlyHope on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:03 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:So you think the issue is he couldn't figure out a way to have Leia gone at the very start of IX and asked Rian to just give her a death scene in TLJ? I don't know, it doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to have some kind of off-screen explanation for her death in a movie about war. It might not be the most satisfying thing in the world but I think the general audience would understand why it had to be that way. I could understand if the prospect of having to rewrite his whole script to not include Leia led to massive frustration and friction that took him off the project, but the conflict being about a change he wanted Rian to make raises a lot more questions. Not so sure it was about Leia.
@ZioRen

Not necessarily that he couldn't figure out how to have Leia gone, but maybe his arc for Ben/Kylo was too dependent on Leia's presence in some way?
@ISeeAnIsland

Then wouldn't he be an advocate for CGI/recast Leia? In which case, the way TLJ ended her arc would be perfect because she lived. So what was he trying to change about TLJ in regards to her? Or maybe the change he wanted was about Luke?

This whole thing is so confusing! Laughing It's not even certain that journalist is correct. Maybe one day we'll know the story.
@ZioRen
I could be wrong, but I don't get the impression that Kathleen Kennedy is an advocate for CGI/recast Leia. Maybe Colin started offering some kind of storytelling ultimatum that KK couldn't approve of; something like either change TLJ so Leia dies or allow her likeness to be recreated using creepy CGI. If a creative can't deliver what she wants, KK's the type of leader who will just move on and hire someone else who can.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by snufkin on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:44 pm

Who knows, but between reading this and seeing JJ on Colbert the other night, I feel way more excited for IX now than I did this time a year ago.

Best solution in the first place would've been if they'd gone for somebody else to start with. My guess will always be that JJ lobbied for Ava because of her involvement with the editing/staging of Snow Fight (which funny to see more fans freak over Throne Room, because it's Snow Fight x100) and their business relationship b/c he's still the executive producer. Or Carey Mulligan's statement that given the work she'd done on Mudbound, somebody like Dee Rees can more than handle a SW film but that the old boy's club still prevails.

With Trevorrow, you get the sense that with a lot of the cast, especially as they're getting work with higher level caliber of filmmakers, there wasn't much overt enthusiasm for having him be in charge of IX. Versus how they clearly reacted to the JJ news like when you're in school and there's a change in staffing so you get your favorite teacher back. Also in terms of public perception if there are fans who are screaming for Rian's head, he's pretty unflappable and gracious about it. That wouldn't have been the case with IX, especially with fans who are already freaking out over how there's no Rey Solo/Skywalker.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 6:28 pm

Mark Hamill on Colin Trevorrow: "I had discussions with Colin and I was very excited because we were on the same page in terms of where we wanted to go and how we wanted to see Luke in a way we've never seen him even in this current version." Which tells me CT was going to go with a more traditional Luke. Contrast this with what Mark has said about RJ.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by IoJovi on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 7:08 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:Mark Hamill on Colin Trevorrow: "I had discussions with Colin and I was very excited because we were on the same page in terms of where we wanted to go and how we wanted to see Luke in a way we've never seen him even in this current version." Which tells me CT was going to go with a more traditional Luke. Contrast this with what Mark has said about RJ.
@Kylo Rey

While I’m fully expecting Luke to come back as a Force Ghost, I can’t imagine he’d have a ton of screen time, or enough to prompt a quote like this. I am assuming this quote was made before Colin was fired? Then again if that’s the case, after rereading it again, he COULD be talking specifically about FG Luke, because at this point the audience wasn’t aware Luke dies. So yeah in that context we have never seen Luke as a Force Ghost, have we!! Laughing
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 7:25 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:Mark Hamill on Colin Trevorrow: "I had discussions with Colin and I was very excited because we were on the same page in terms of where we wanted to go and how we wanted to see Luke in a way we've never seen him even in this current version." Which tells me CT was going to go with a more traditional Luke. Contrast this with what Mark has said about RJ.
@Kylo Rey

While I’m fully expecting Luke to come back as a Force Ghost, I can’t imagine he’d have a ton of screen time, or enough to prompt a quote like this.  I am assuming this quote was made before Colin was fired?  Then again if that’s the case, after rereading it again, he COULD be talking specifically about FG Luke, because at this point the audience wasn’t aware Luke dies.  So yeah in that context we have never seen Luke as a Force Ghost, have we!!  Laughing
@IoJovi

It was after CT was fired but before TLJ released

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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by special_cases on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 10:49 pm

If Colin really demanded to change something in TLJ, it would be Luke's arc.

Mark loved his ideas.
Mark asked RJ not to kill Luke in the end.

Colin: "I assure you, we are working diligently to make sure we present something fans will love with Episode IX."

"Being totally honest with you, because no one’s listening, and this’ll never be in print, I completely recognize that there are people who realize I’m entrusted with telling the third part of a story that’s more important to them than anything in the world."

"I’m out to tell real stories and challenge all of our expectations of what a movie should be.

I’m not saying I’m necessarily going to do that on the next one, ’cause we want to be careful and respectful with the things that we love, but I would hope, in the same way that I love Rian Johnson for being somebody who has a vision and takes risks, and
… I want to make it clear that I’m not doing this for the money."

Colin throwing a shade on Twitter about "not at the expanse of fandom" after TLJ release is quite a hint.

Colin is more open to fan service (like fan service to hardcore fans) than RJ. Colin talked about Luke's and Leia's roles in the movie more than about Rey and Kylo. I'm not sure he ever mentioned Kylo, but I can't be 100% about it.


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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Dar-ren19 on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 11:03 pm

So is that the best reason he was let go?
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Birdwoman on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 11:09 pm

Did Colin tweet that after TLJ?  Wow!  Well, I am sure there are lots of reasons he got....laid off....but we will never know because Lucas film is not allowed to talk about it.  But I am happy that Kathy Kennedy will not tolerate people who cannot work cooperatively in the huge machine that is Lucas film.  My understanding from gossip and comments (read between the lines) that Lucas film is huge, with lots of departments that need coordination to make the films we enjoy.  It seems that some people have a hard time working in that environment easily or their visions are so different from what Lucas film wants that it becomes incompatible for them to continue being a director of a Star Wars film. Rian, seemed to be able to work in that environment, even though he didn't have experience with huge film franchises before TLJ.

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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by nickandnora on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 11:10 pm

Honestly, that reads to me a bit like they were planning more deconstruction of the original trio (Han, Leia, Luke), and Colin wasn't on board with it. I've said it before somewhere, but the way they had Luke make such a tragic mistake in TLJ tells me that we're going to get some tidbit about each of Han and Leia in regards to the mistakes they made when raising Ben that's really going to put them in an ambiguous light.

I mean, that's fine with me, but sounds like he had a problem with it.

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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by special_cases on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 11:35 pm

@Dar-ren19 Who knows... I think there were several reasons: script didn't work, Colin's ego and "Book of Genry." Colin got this job because Spielberg recommended him.

Pure nepotism because Colin actually does not have such impressive CV as a writer as Johnson has. Colin did not write Safety Not Guaranteed - his most successful critically acclaimed movie.

His only advantage was that he worked on big budget project but Jurassic World's production was far from perfect. Actually there were reports exactly about Colin's style of work but this is just wild rumors, of course.

In 2014-2015 Colin wrote Intelligent Life and wanted to direct. Then they gave this movie to Ava. And Ava dropped this project fast, she was there only for 3 months.

LF hired Thorne to help Colin with script in July-August. And they asked him out in September, just one month after. It seems that script help was really last hope and after one month they understood that they can't wait anymore.

I'm sorry that this is so offtopic.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by ZioRen on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 11:43 pm

I think the Luke thing may have caused more internal strife than we realized and Mark gave us a tiny taste of it. I can't imagine it was an easy decision to make, knowing how a good chunk of the fans would no doubt react (and lo and behold, they did what I imagine was expected of them), but I'm glad Lucasfilm let Rian stick to his guns.

I get the feeling they made an early decision to allow the OT trio to be "expendable" in the ST. Rian might think he had free reign but I think he may have run into a few roadblocks if he'd tried to do something outlandish with Rey or Kylo, who I gather they've had a basic outline for from the start. He probably never had to deal with that, because from what we know Rian was following J.J.'s ideas perfectly in regards to those two.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by special_cases on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 11:52 pm

@Birdwoman Colin tweeted this, out of the blue. I mean, this about another franchise, but...



@nickandnora I agree with everything you said.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by IoJovi on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 12:21 am

@special_cases wrote:@Birdwoman Colin tweeted this, out of the blue. I mean, this about another franchise, but...



@nickandnora I agree with everything you said.
@special_cases

Yeah that’s some major salt from Colin. Sure it may be about another trilogy, but one doesn’t need to make huge leaps to see he’s throwing shade at Lucasfilm. When he talks about protecting the fandom, all I can think about is fanboys and Luke superfans. All I can say is thank goodness for J.J.!!! I know it’ll never happen, but what I wouldn’t give down the road to be able to read his rough drafts after the trilogy is said and done.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by ZioRen on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 1:00 am

Yeah it might well just be coincidental but that sounds like straight shade to me, especially with the '...' at the end.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Kessel on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 1:12 am

Wow, interesting stuff about Treverrow. Yeah, we don’t know exactly what went down, but the speculation here sounds like it might not be too far off from what may have gone down based on what Treverrow has said.

@IoJovi - I agree, if Treverrow was all about “protecting the fandom” and Mark liked his idea for Luke (I love Mark, but some of his ideas for Luke weren’t the best) then I can imagine Treverrow likely wanted to play it safe with the OT characters, keep Luke alive and make him a significant character. I remember his comment about making the answer to Rey’s parentage  “profoundly satisfying” and now I’m very curiously wondering ( and reassessing) Just what his idea of “satisfying” might have been (could it have possibly been Reywalker?). I hope we find out at some point. At any rate, I’m grateful for Rian and JJ.

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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 1:40 am

After reading all of this - it makes some sense.

It seems that Colin did deliver the first draft of the script just before Carrie died. I'll go that far and guess that at the point Colin knew he could not use Leia (because KK & co. were clear about it) - he went to LF with the idea of changes to Luke's arc in TLJ.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Dar-ren19 on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 1:54 am

@special_cases thanks so much for the explanation. I get it....

@nickandnora - I keep thinking of how JJ "undid" the prime universe for the alternate timeline in ST2009 and how upset the "fans" were (I wasn't... I enjoyed the heck out of that movie. I may be an old Trekkie, but I know which side Paramount/CBS's bread is buttered). This strikes me as pretty much the same. Honestly, the straightforward villain crap is boring as anything, and I'm glad KK/JJ/RJ/LF realized this in time and took a gander at something new and improved.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Saracene on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 2:38 am

Jurassic World was on TV the other night, and ehhhh I'm glad that Trevorrow is off the Episode IX Twisted Evil JJ with all his faults is still a far better option.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 2:40 am

@special_cases wrote:If Colin really demanded to change something in TLJ, it would be Luke's arc.

Mark loved his ideas.
Mark asked RJ not to kill Luke in the end.

Colin: "I assure you, we are working diligently to make sure we present something fans will love with Episode IX."

"Being totally honest with you, because no one’s listening, and this’ll never be in print, I completely recognize that there are people who realize I’m entrusted with telling the third part of a story that’s more important to them than anything in the world."

"I’m out to tell real stories and challenge all of our expectations of what a movie should be.

I’m not saying I’m necessarily going to do that on the next one, ’cause we want to be careful and respectful with the things that we love, but I would hope, in the same way that I love Rian Johnson for being somebody who has a vision and takes risks, and
… I want to make it clear that I’m not doing this for the money."

Colin throwing a shade on Twitter about "not at the expanse of fandom" after TLJ release is quite a hint.

Colin is more open to fan service (like fan service to hardcore fans) than RJ. Colin talked about Luke's and Leia's roles in the movie more than about Rey and Kylo. I'm not sure he ever mentioned Kylo, but I can't be 100% about it.
@special_cases

Wait, where did these Colin quotes come from? And he actually threw shade at TLJ after TLJ's release???? Does anybody have that quote?

Edit: I see it now.

Also, wow. I never believed the stories that Colin was a ego maniac, because, come on, who the hell is he compared to KK and Disney? But geez, talk about an entitled fanboy! Episode IX would have been utter crap with him. No wonder Daisy cried when she knew JJ was coming back.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by special_cases on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 3:12 am

@SoloSideCousin No-no, these quotes are from pre-TLJ period, they just have additional meaning after TLJ because we know about "risks" in the story and what Colin's "I’m not saying I’m necessarily going to do that on the next one, ’cause we want to be careful and respectful with the things that we love" could have meant.

Original Interview was here http://pressaware.com/2017/06/18/colin-trevorrow-interview-for-the-book-of-henry/ (He was asked about Jurassic World and Book of Henry and he somehow ended talking about Rian Johnson and "next one." It was strange interview even then.)

Link doesn't exist anymore but I saved it on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/6i2bzb/colin_trevorrow_i_completely_recognize_that_there/

People think CT threw shade because he mentioned "the new trilogy is built for a new generation, but not at the expense of the fandom. Without them we're nothing..." in his tweet about JP. This topic came out of the blue. Well, maybe not out of the blue, because haters were tweeting him their opinions about TLJ. I personally didn't read most of it, it's just pathetic to be so crybabies.
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by ZioRen on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 3:13 am

@Saracene wrote:Jurassic World was on TV the other night, and ehhhh I'm glad that Trevorrow is off the Episode IX Twisted Evil JJ with all his faults is still a far better option.
@Saracene

I question a lot about J.J.'s style and choices too but this story and these characters (especially Kylo) are his babies. I think he'll make IX satisfying in the end for that reason alone. It might be a bit clunky and questionable at points, but still satisfying. Well, for us anyways. Laughing
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 3:34 am

@ZioRen wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Jurassic World was on TV the other night, and ehhhh I'm glad that Trevorrow is off the Episode IX Twisted Evil JJ with all his faults is still a far better option.
@Saracene

I question a lot about J.J.'s style and choices too but this story and these characters (especially Kylo) are his babies. I think he'll make IX satisfying in the end for that reason alone. It might be a bit clunky and questionable at points, but still satisfying. Well, for us anyways. Laughing
@ZioRen

Yeah, JJ is not the best director in the world, but JJ knows and respects something crucial, and that is that Lawrence Kasdan, Leigh Brackett and Irvin Kershner turned a popcorn series into a masterpiece mythical drama in 1980.  People, including me, waited for 35 years for a SW movie that even came close to delivering the artistic promise of ESB. (I don't include ROTJ because GL decided to chuck mythos in favor of toys and easy endings by blowing off LK's superior ideas).

JJ and LK actually touched that ESB masterpiece place with Kylo, Reylo and the Kylo/Han relationship, and had they had more than six weeks to write the script, it would have been better. And JJ, for all his lens flare and mystery box faults, knows that LK is the writing king of this series. He knows that its most profound moments came from LK, as RJ probably did too. JJ knows that if he gets lost, he knows who he can talk to.


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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by special_cases on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:07 am

I posted additional quotes about Colin\from Colin in his thread - in case someone is interested http://reylo.skyforum.net/t205p450-colin-trevorrow-out-for-episode-ix#185475
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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:14 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Jurassic World was on TV the other night, and ehhhh I'm glad that Trevorrow is off the Episode IX Twisted Evil JJ with all his faults is still a far better option.
@Saracene

I question a lot about J.J.'s style and choices too but this story and these characters (especially Kylo) are his babies. I think he'll make IX satisfying in the end for that reason alone. It might be a bit clunky and questionable at points, but still satisfying. Well, for us anyways. Laughing
@ZioRen

Yeah, JJ is not the best director in the world, but JJ knows and respects something crucial, and that is that Lawrence Kasdan, Leigh Brackett and Irvin Kershner turned a popcorn series into a masterpiece mythical drama in 1980. People, including me, waited for 35 years for a SW movie that even came close to delivering the artistic promise of ESB. (I don't include ROTJ because GL decided to chuck mythos in favor of toys and easy endings by blowing off LK's superior ideas).

JJ and LK actually touched that ESB masterpiece place with Kylo, Reylo and the Kylo/Han relationship, and had they had more than six weeks to write the script, it would have been better. And JJ, for all his lens flare and mystery box faults, knows that LK writing king of this series. He knows that its most profound moments came from LK, as
RJ probably did too. JJ knows that if he gets lost, he knows who he can talk to.
@SoloSideCousin

My main complaint about TLJ in general (the initial reaction was the overall "coldness" of the movie and I needed time to come up what was it exactly) is the "distant" characters. I didn't feel them the way I felt the characters in TFA ( and the OT for that part). I'am not a big expert for the matter but I think it depends on a director for the most part.
JJ made me care for the characters. The biggest example for it is Finn. His arc in TFA wasn't anything special and it had flaws but I did care for him. And thought the character had an immense potential going forward (in a sense of B plot to Kylo/Rey A plot).
Not only Finn looked passive in TLJ, but Rian didn't make me care for him at all. Even worse happened to Poe.

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Re: J.J. Abrams To Direct Episode IX - It's official!!!!

Post by Saracene on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:29 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:My main complaint about TLJ in general (the initial reaction was the overall "coldness" of the movie and I needed time to come up what was it exactly) is the "distant" characters. I didn't feel them the way I felt the characters in TFA ( and the OT for that part). I'am not a big expert for the matter but I think it depends on a director for the most part.
JJ made me care for the characters. The biggest example for it is Finn. His arc in TFA wasn't anything special and it had flaws but I did care for him. And thought the character had an immense potential going forward (in a sense of B plot to Kylo/Rey A plot).
Not only Finn looked passive in TLJ, but Rian didn't make me care for him at all. Even worse happened to Poe.

@Darth_Awakened

I think the big difference is that in TFA, John's charm and exuberance papered over the (huge massive) flaws in Finn's characterisation. In TLJ he's more serious and subdued, so there's no real charm or energy and no strong characterisation either.

To be fair though, charm and energy can only carry you so far and at some point substance has to kick in. It worked in TFA, I'm not sure if it would have worked again second time around and negated the lack of a real interesting arc for Finn. Like, the acting in Star Trek: Into Darkness and the interactions between Kirk and Spock were no worse than in the original JJ film, but because they couldn't come up with compelling character material and basically recycled the same beats, the characters still fell flat.
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