The Last Jedi: General Discussion

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 02 Oct 2017, 9:12 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:There is an interesting discussion happening on Reddit about how Luke might be a Moses figure, something we have discussed here and in podcasts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/73tu5a/lukes_story_will_mirror_that_of_moses/#bottom-comments

I found this part to be particularly interesting.

–]DrAphra 2 points 9 hours ago

Wiki quote: According to the Book of Exodus in the Bible, the staff used by Moses (Hebrew: מַטֶּה‎‎ matteh, translated "rod" in the King James Bible) was by his side throughout important milestones in the narrative. Among these milestone events or "miracles of the exodus" the Bible describes that the staff was used to produce water from a rock, was transformed into a snake and back, and was used at the parting of the Red Sea.[1] Whether or not Moses' staff was the same as that used by his brother Aaron (known as Aaron's rod) has been debated by rabbinical scholars.

Luke's staff has a snake head like Moses and Aaron's had! So who is this brother? Luke never had a brother... unless the staff is tied to someone else who is tied to Luke. A clone perhaps? Then again, the snakehead may be connected to Snake/Snoke/Smoke, who has a past with Luke. Did Luke obtain Snoke's staff and keep it?

Also of note, the staff can be turned into a snake and back into a staff. Maybe this is a metaphor for Luke and Snoke, for Snoke is a red herring (snoak) or smokescreen akin to Wizard of Oz as many speculated.

Guess it will be a lot simpler in the end, but the many hints are intriguing and as paralells, even if not spelled out or coming to fruition are there.

permalinkembedparentreport

[–]deekaydubya 5 points 7 hours ago

omg if Crait is the red sea I'll freak out


Like Moses, Luke in a way "freed the slaves" of the Empire.

But Moses also was never allowed to enter the Promised Land because he disobeyed God and kind of "played God" by acting like he produced a miracle of water in the desert when the gift really came from God.

https://carm.org/why-couldnt-moses-enter-promised-land

https://www.gotquestions.org/Moses-promised-land.html

So will there be a situation where pride/power goes to Luke's head and he thinks that he is somehow above the will of the force, and as such, is denied something in the end?
@SoloSideCousin

It wasn't that discussion (unless the point pops up again there), but I saw another online discussion talking about Luke's snakehead staff and it's possible symbolism...and pointing out how close "Snoke" is to "snake"...and also pointing out that "Crait" is close to "Krait"--a type of venomous snakes.

I seriously doubt that all of the snake imagery is a coincidence...especially if you throw in the Rey-and-Kylo as Adam-and-Eve theory.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 02 Oct 2017, 9:36 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:There is an interesting discussion happening on Reddit about how Luke might be a Moses figure, something we have discussed here and in podcasts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/73tu5a/lukes_story_will_mirror_that_of_moses/#bottom-comments

I found this part to be particularly interesting.

–]DrAphra 2 points 9 hours ago

Wiki quote: According to the Book of Exodus in the Bible, the staff used by Moses (Hebrew: מַטֶּה‎‎ matteh, translated "rod" in the King James Bible) was by his side throughout important milestones in the narrative. Among these milestone events or "miracles of the exodus" the Bible describes that the staff was used to produce water from a rock, was transformed into a snake and back, and was used at the parting of the Red Sea.[1] Whether or not Moses' staff was the same as that used by his brother Aaron (known as Aaron's rod) has been debated by rabbinical scholars.

Luke's staff has a snake head like Moses and Aaron's had! So who is this brother? Luke never had a brother... unless the staff is tied to someone else who is tied to Luke. A clone perhaps? Then again, the snakehead may be connected to Snake/Snoke/Smoke, who has a past with Luke. Did Luke obtain Snoke's staff and keep it?

Also of note, the staff can be turned into a snake and back into a staff. Maybe this is a metaphor for Luke and Snoke, for Snoke is a red herring (snoak) or smokescreen akin to Wizard of Oz as many speculated.

Guess it will be a lot simpler in the end, but the many hints are intriguing and as paralells, even if not spelled out or coming to fruition are there.

permalinkembedparentreport

[–]deekaydubya 5 points 7 hours ago

omg if Crait is the red sea I'll freak out


Like Moses, Luke in a way "freed the slaves" of the Empire.

But Moses also was never allowed to enter the Promised Land because he disobeyed God and kind of "played God" by acting like he produced a miracle of water in the desert when the gift really came from God.

https://carm.org/why-couldnt-moses-enter-promised-land

https://www.gotquestions.org/Moses-promised-land.html

So will there be a situation where pride/power goes to Luke's head and he thinks that he is somehow above the will of the force, and as such, is denied something in the end?
@SoloSideCousin

It wasn't that discussion (unless the point pops up again there), but I saw another online discussion talking about Luke's snakehead staff and it's possible symbolism...and pointing out how close "Snoke" is to "snake"...and also pointing out that "Crait" is close to "Krait"--a type of venomous snakes.

I seriously doubt that all of the snake imagery is a coincidence...especially if you throw in the Rey-and-Kylo as Adam-and-Eve theory.
@ISeeAnIsland

Whoa! I did not know about Krait being a venomous snake! So we have Snoke(Snake), the staff (which didn't someone say had a snakes head?), Crait meaning a poison snake, snake symbolizing corruption (Snoke is literally like a rotting figure but covered in riches, like a fallen Lucifer), the Adam and Eve symbolism with Rey and Kylo, and Ben being corrupted by the snake (remember the Serpent plant in Life Debt) as an unborn baby, an innocent.

Then we have both Luke and Snoke wearing kyber stones.

Then to get back to the Moses parallel, the Force may have given him all kinds of signs and instructions for years. Ben himself may have been a sign from the Force. But Luke thought he knew better, and willfully ignored such signs out of anger, confusion and/or just the plain old arrogance of the Jedi. I think Ben and Rey could both be "messages from the Force." Luke "defied" the force with Ben because he thought he knew everything. This puts him in an "acting like God" position and this leads to disaster.

Moses was a great figure who did great things, but he messed up. Rian was raised Christian. I wouldn't be surprised if he joined the Moses angle to the Snake angle. He won't totally copy the Bible. Instead it will be a fusion, perhaps where Luke and Snake have some kind if meeting point or connection.
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Post by Moonlight13 on Mon 02 Oct 2017, 10:48 pm

Could it be that Snoke represents Kylo's temptation towards the "extreme Dark side" and Luke represents Rey's temptation towards the "extreme Light side" and that's why they need to work together to find a balance? Confus
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Post by Moonlight13 on Mon 02 Oct 2017, 10:48 pm

Edit: Sorry for the double post, it was an accident. Neutral
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Post by Kylo Men on Mon 02 Oct 2017, 11:27 pm

Moses, Hamlet, and Joan of Arc land on an island ....

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Post by MrsWindu on Tue 03 Oct 2017, 5:39 am

Andy Serkis had an interview in this months Empire talking about his new film and career in general. TEEENY sentence about Snoke though.

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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 03 Oct 2017, 6:36 am

I don't think there is any parallel with Moses & Luke ..

1. Moses staff was did not have a head of a snake, it was just a staff
2. Moses & Luke's origin stories are completely different.
3. Not all snakes are bad in the Moses story nor do they represent temptation in the Moses story

King James Bible
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.


4. God punishes Moses for not speaking to the rock to bring forth water because speaking to the rock would have been a higher spiritual principle, than hitting the rock with a rock again.

I Exodus, God commands Moses to strike a rock, and promises to make water flow in the desert for the people.

Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock at Horeb, and you shall strike the rock, and water shall come out of it, and the people will drink.” And Moses did so, in the sight of the elders of Israel. (Exodus 17:6 ESV)
Later on, God tells Moses to speak to a rock, promising to make water flow in the desert again. However, Moses strikes the rock again instead of speaking to it. Because of just this one thing, God tells Moses that he will no longer be permitted bring the people into the Promised Land
.


Yet there are religious motifs that you can already see in TLJ, lost/hidden manuscripts of the OG jedi, hidden temples, nun like caretakers, Luke at this point is more of a hermit ascetic, which is nothing like Moses.  Snoke does sound like snake, and he may more than likely represent temptation for Ben.  Luke does have a staff with a snake at the top how that relates to everything else I think we will have to wait and see. Obi wan does say to Rey in her vision "you will be tempted"

in the PT, satan is represented by Palpatine, he whispers in Padme's ear this is a direct reference to Genesis, and Padme calls for a vote of no confidence

The Last Jedi: General Discussion - Page 3 Z

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There is a huge snake in the mural when Palpatine reveals himself to Anakin and tempts him to the darkside

The Last Jedi: General Discussion - Page 3 Sith%2018

Which is an exact mirror of the snakes on Dagobah when Luke enters the cave

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Post by Man Without A Star on Tue 03 Oct 2017, 8:43 am

Some new info about the beginning of TLJ is out. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/10/fun-details-evacuation-dqar-star-wars-last-jedi/

After Poe Dameron’s squadrons destroyed Starkiller Base, the First Order sought out the Resistance headquarters on the planet of D’Qar to enact their revenge. A-wings flew guard around the Resistance fleet and the transports fleeing the base. When three First Order warships emerged from hyperspace to attack, a squadron of A-wings, commanded by Tallie Lintra, assisted Poe Dameron and the Resistance’s assault bombers in taking on an enemy dreadnought.

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 03 Oct 2017, 8:52 pm

I am seeing reports in other online communities that advanced tickets for TLJ will go on sale on October 9th (the alleged date for the trailer to drop) here in the US. Several people are reporting on reddit that Regal and AMC will both offer options to view TFA and TLJ as a double feature.
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Post by krissy01 on Wed 04 Oct 2017, 12:29 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I am seeing reports in other online communities that advanced tickets for TLJ will go on sale on October 9th (the alleged date for the trailer to drop) here in the US. Several people are reporting on reddit that Regal and AMC will both offer options to view TFA and TLJ as a double feature.
@ISeeAnIsland

I think that's partly how news leaked of the final TFA trailer? Theatre chains started readying themselves for pre-ticket sales and word leaked by Wednesday, several days before the trailer dropped. The official SW sites kept quiet about it anyway (I think?) till Sunday, a day before the trailer debut.  

There are so many fake leakers and awful click bait sites who just link to each other without verifying or fact checking, I hope LF announce it earlier. But we'll probably have to wait till Sunday to know for sure (that is if they do things the same and give us an announcement and official poster a day prior to the trailer's debut!)

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Post by EchoBase on Thu 05 Oct 2017, 3:45 am

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Thu 05 Oct 2017, 3:00 pm

Via Reddit:

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 10:45 am

Off topic but I read this interview with Harrison http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/ive-lifted-people-out-forest-11294959 and I can t help but think he and Adam sound eerily similar when interviewed.
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Post by Guest on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 11:43 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Off topic but I read this interview with Harrison http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/ive-lifted-people-out-forest-11294959 and I can t help but think he and Adam sound eerily similar when interviewed.
@motherofpearl1

They do! Not only are their temperaments the same, but they are physically similar. You can easily believe Adam playing Harrison's son. They have the same facial shape and stoic mannerisms. Though Han was more of a goofball than Harrison. But they do interview very similarly!

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 12:13 pm

Both unassuming, both a bit shy, both amazingly unpretentious - please make another movie together guys!!
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Post by tukicarreno on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 1:31 pm

RandomObserver wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Off topic but I read this interview with Harrison http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/ive-lifted-people-out-forest-11294959 and I can t help but think he and Adam sound eerily similar when interviewed.
@motherofpearl1

They do! Not only are their temperaments the same, but they are physically similar. You can easily believe Adam playing Harrison's son. They have the same facial shape and stoic mannerisms. Though Han was more of a goofball than Harrison. But they do interview very similarly!
@RandomObserver

I know! I agree! The casting of Adam as Han´s son was perfect!
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Post by vaderito on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 1:32 pm

RandomObserver wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Off topic but I read this interview with Harrison http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/ive-lifted-people-out-forest-11294959 and I can t help but think he and Adam sound eerily similar when interviewed.
@motherofpearl1

They do! Not only are their temperaments the same, but they are physically similar. You can easily believe Adam playing Harrison's son. They have the same facial shape and stoic mannerisms. Though Han was more of a goofball than Harrison. But they do interview very similarly!
@RandomObserver

KK didn't hand-pick Adam for nothing. She's friends with Ford for decades, so she knew what to look for in an actor that would play Han's son.
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Post by Anakin Skywalker on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 1:38 pm


1:31 - kylo's mentions about rey in Battlefront 2 H-beating
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 1:41 pm

@tukicarreno wrote:
RandomObserver wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Off topic but I read this interview with Harrison http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/ive-lifted-people-out-forest-11294959 and I can t help but think he and Adam sound eerily similar when interviewed.
@motherofpearl1

They do! Not only are their temperaments the same, but they are physically similar. You can easily believe Adam playing Harrison's son. They have the same facial shape and stoic mannerisms. Though Han was more of a goofball than Harrison. But they do interview very similarly!
@RandomObserver

I know! I agree! The casting of Adam as Han´s son was perfect!
@tukicarreno

For all the fanboy complaining,  KK really *does* know what she's doing. :-)

Speaking of which, I saw some of the prequels last night. I'm not trying to bash because I know some people here grew up with the prequels (and frankly, I would apply a lot of this to ROTJ as well), but those movies were terribly executed and directed. Forget about clunky dialogue and bad acting direction for a minute, with the exception of the last hour of ROTS and the Obi-Wan fight with Darth Maul, the action sequences are staged terribly. They're stiff and slow and awkward. TFA and RO are a million times better executed. It's like night and day, and a lot of that quality is due to KK's choices of people and her standards.
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Post by IoJovi on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 1:47 pm

@Anakin Skywalker wrote:
1:31 - kylo's mentions about rey in Battlefront 2 H-beating
@Anakin Skywalker

Discussion for Kylo Ren's voiceover for Battlefront 2 can be found here:


http://reylo.skyforum.net/t509p775-rey-and-kylo-beauty-and-the-beast-scavenger-and-the-monstah-their-bond-his-love-her-confused-feelings

Thanks!
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Post by Irina de France on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 2:38 pm

The action scenes are terrible mostly because it was all green screens and actors had a hard time with that. You can actually see them looking in the wrong direction at times, lol.

There are some scenes (mostly scenes with Anakin and Padmé) however that when you put the movie on mute (lol), they're actually very nicely done? Nah, seriously, it works.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 3:04 pm

I think the main reaction I had after seeing the PT after being an OT fan was that it obviously wasn't meant to please fans like me, who'd already had their childhood experience. I also had a moment of thinking that was the first time I'd probably seen Ewan McGregor keep his clothes on for an entire movie. Which is kind of a mark against the PT in my book.  

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 3:11 pm

@Irina de France wrote:The action scenes are terrible mostly because it was all green screens and actors had a hard time with that. You can actually see them looking in the wrong direction at times, lol.

There are some scenes (mostly scenes with Anakin and Padmé) however that when you put the movie on mute (lol), they're actually very nicely done? Nah, seriously, it works.
@Irina de France

Yeah, most of those movies are green screen, when they really don't need to be. Also, they look fake a lot, whereas ANH, for being as old as it is, didn't look half as fake. The prequels come off very video game at times. GL was way too enamored with the CGI, and it really messes up performances.  I think even AD complained about it (though he did great with what little green screen he did have) because on the Snoke scenes he said he had trouble knowing what direction to look towards.  If he doesn't like it, with all the internal character building he does and all the theatre experience he's had (I mean they sit at a table and do Greek tragedy at AITAF performances), forget about an actor with less training and/or experience.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 3:13 pm

@snufkin wrote:I think the main reaction I had after seeing the PT after being an OT fan was that it obviously wasn't meant to please fans like me, who'd already had their childhood experience. I also had a moment of thinking that was the first time I'd probably seen Ewan McGregor keep his clothes on for an entire movie. Which is kind of a mark against the PT in my book.  

@snufkin

That's the thing though. They are not even well made for 12 year olds. Being a person who saw a lot of action movies with my Dad as a kid, I would have thought as a 12 year old that those action sequences were bad.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 3:20 pm

It's really interesting seeing the PT through the eyes of my daughter. (She's seen all of them, although we distract/skip ahead through the Anakin-lava part of RotS, which I'm not comfortable with her viewing.)

She's 5, and she totally gets that the trilogy is about Anakin turning into Darth Vader, although we never laid it out for her that concretely. She also LOVES Padme--she gets it that the character was a queen and then a senator as a teenager. (Her crowd of friends is very into the "strong princess" thing right now.) And she definitely sees Anakin/Padme as a fairy tale with a sad ending.
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