The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by Casper on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:43 pm

@snufkin wrote:Dude, any fanboys (Gen-X or Millennial) who are salty about it, it ain't cause we're a bunch of crazy cat ladies. It's because the entire premise of the ST centers the female perspective and female storytelling in a way that doesn't allow them to be the default. It also doesn't allow it be a situation where how new fans, be they female or in the case of this board-not American and not Western, get to come in to the institutional culture of fandom and be part of the Boy's Club. Part of what freaks these people out isn't just OMG she can't have a love interest because she's a strong female character or he killed Han Solo, that bastard! It's the loss of hegemony or people coming in having their own communities and fan experiences which aren't centered around what those fans are interested in. Or to put it more bluntly in the words of a forum member from here, you have dudes who got off to Slave Leia as part of their SW experience growing up who now want to bond with their daughters over it. And that brings in a whole new set of expectations about what Rey "should" be doing - talk about the literal patriarchy. Not to mention the whole theme of the ST for Ben/Kylo being parent expectations about how a kid should experience something or figure it out versus what the kid actually wants to do. Both OT and PT fans need to chill the eff out IMO over what "should" happen in the ST because pro-tip - this isn't your trilogy. Let those kids (and new fans, be they female or non-Western, non-English speaking countries) have their own experiences and relationships to the stories.

As for Reddit, LF really does need to do a publishing project which riffs on this old classic given how desperate some fans are to make Luke be somebody's dad.
@snufkin

Oh, no, I was kidding about us being cat ladies (although I am actually a cat lady), and I get much of what you’re saying.  To me, as a female SW fan, I never felt like the movies didn’t belong to me, if that makes sense.  I mean, it was cool to like SW no matter who you were, and I didn’t really understand that Leia was so unusual as a female protagonist in a SciFi franchise, but also specifically in SW, until I was much older.  She’s pretty much the only one from the OT, but she was so cool and smart and bad***, that to me, at least, it didn’t feel that there was a lack of powerful female characters.  A lot of that is to CF’s credit, but also to the women who wrote much of SW.        

Funny story, my older sister and I apparently both loved SW so much that every night we would each separately fantasize about being in the movie/s and go to sleep imagining what are character would be and so on.  For some reason, neither of us told each other that until much later.  But that’s the power of SW, it made that much of an impression on both of us, and millions of other little girls, I’m sure.  And I was just thinking again yesterday how amazing it must be for girls to have Rey to fantasize themselves as, or even to create completely new female characters inspired by her.  SW is still igniting the imaginations of girls everywhere, so the fanboys better realize we’re not going anywhere any time soon.

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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by ZioRen on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:23 pm

Here's another person on Reddit claiming to have the scoop. https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7hlccg/not_long_now_let_me_help_you_guys_out/

I will give them some credit for coming up with a backstory for the Knights of Ren that I haven't heard before: 
Kylo Ren has taken over Vader's castle on Mustafar. He has some acolytes/assistants in robes just like Vader had in Rogue One. It's sort of his personal base but also the base of the Knights of Ren.

It's revealed that the Knights of Ren are basically Stormtroopers that were discarded as defective by the First Order. It's implied that this is usually due to a resistance to indoctrination or other dysfunction that makes them unfit to serve. They are augmented with cybernetic parts in Vader's Castle (we see more of a lab area, and even a weird mad scientist type cultist) to be more effective in combat or to fix their "flaws."

That may disappoint some. That's all they are. But there is significance we learn behind why Kylo has his own base and why his group is called the Knights of Ren. He has a lot going on.

The Knights of Ren are discarded troopers that Kylo took under his wing.
The Knights of Ren are not force sensitive. They are discarded Stormtroopers that Kylo saved from being sold into slavery or killed. His personal guard.

On why he was hesitant to shoot Finn at the start of TFA:
Yeah, Kylo seems to have a soft spot for troopers. He doesn't openly speak out about it but it's implied he doesn't agree with the practice of raising child soldiers basically. Maybe there was more to that little jab at Hux in TFA about using a clone army. Not sure if Kylo thinks that was more ethical.


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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by Birdwoman on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:28 pm

Yeah, I am finding some of it dubious. It sounds like there is some love triangle between Rose/Finn/Rey.  Rey and Kylo are fascinated by each other...


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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:32 pm

Kylo's discarded stormtrooper orphanage made me laugh!
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by ZioRen on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:37 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Kylo's discarded stormtrooper orphanage made me laugh!
@FrolickingFizzgig
It doesn't really make sense why Snoke would call Kylo "Master of the Knights of Ren" like that matters at all if the KoR are just some "useless" Stormtroopers Kylo has collected and augmented as a side hobby.
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by Birdwoman on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:42 pm

Kylo, he picks up stray animals and stormtroopers. LOL!

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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by snufkin on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:49 pm

@Casper wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Dude, any fanboys (Gen-X or Millennial) who are salty about it, it ain't cause we're a bunch of crazy cat ladies. It's because the entire premise of the ST centers the female perspective and female storytelling in a way that doesn't allow them to be the default. It also doesn't allow it be a situation where how new fans, be they female or in the case of this board-not American and not Western, get to come in to the institutional culture of fandom and be part of the Boy's Club. Part of what freaks these people out isn't just OMG she can't have a love interest because she's a strong female character or he killed Han Solo, that bastard! It's the loss of hegemony or people coming in having their own communities and fan experiences which aren't centered around what those fans are interested in. Or to put it more bluntly in the words of a forum member from here, you have dudes who got off to Slave Leia as part of their SW experience growing up who now want to bond with their daughters over it. And that brings in a whole new set of expectations about what Rey "should" be doing - talk about the literal patriarchy. Not to mention the whole theme of the ST for Ben/Kylo being parent expectations about how a kid should experience something or figure it out versus what the kid actually wants to do. Both OT and PT fans need to chill the eff out IMO over what "should" happen in the ST because pro-tip - this isn't your trilogy. Let those kids (and new fans, be they female or non-Western, non-English speaking countries) have their own experiences and relationships to the stories.

As for Reddit, LF really does need to do a publishing project which riffs on this old classic given how desperate some fans are to make Luke be somebody's dad.
@snufkin

Oh, no, I was kidding about us being cat ladies (although I am actually a cat lady), and I get much of what you’re saying.  To me, as a female SW fan, I never felt like the movies didn’t belong to me, if that makes sense.  I mean, it was cool to like SW no matter who you were, and I didn’t really understand that Leia was so unusual as a female protagonist in a SciFi franchise, but also specifically in SW, until I was much older.  She’s pretty much the only one from the OT, but she was so cool and smart and bad***, that to me, at least, it didn’t feel that there was a lack of powerful female characters.  A lot of that is to CF’s credit, but also to the women who wrote much of SW.        

Funny story, my older sister and I apparently both loved SW so much that every night we would each separately fantasize about being in the movie/s and go to sleep imagining what are character would be and so on.  For some reason, neither of us told each other that until much later.  But that’s the power of SW, it made that much of an impression on both of us, and millions of other little girls, I’m sure.  And I was just thinking again yesterday how amazing it must be for girls to have Rey to fantasize themselves as, or even to create completely new female characters inspired by her.  SW is still igniting the imaginations of girls everywhere, so the fanboys better realize we’re not going anywhere any time soon.
@Casper

All of this is awesome! One of the great things about this group is the perspectives from different nationalities/cultures and hearing what it means for representation and seeing heroines like Rey, Jyn, Rose, Paige, Leia, et cetera be at the center of the story versus being in the service (or under the control of) the mae characters. Also this seems appropriate given the more snide dismissals of the discussion/analysis that's happened here and elsewhere - reduced to misogyny, condescension and mockery. Especially because part of the analysis is that the heroine's coming-of-age story includes exploring her sexuality and that the villain presents himself to her (and the parts of the audience who aren't straight men) in a manner that is about being the object of the female gaze/for her pleasure

To the extent that this phenomenon gets noted outside of the safe spaces of Tumblr and BuzzFeed, it tends to get treated with condescension — a time-honored way to play down the destabilizing power of female crushes since at least the era of Elvis. As a demographic, teenage girls are routinely sexualized, but when they sexualize someone right on back, they get mocked for their attraction. The disdain heaped on grown women, meanwhile, is a bit more implicit, the idea that they’re reaching beyond what they actually deserve.
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by Lily Snape on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 12:42 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Casper wrote:@IoJovi

44 and counting, bruh!  

ESB is the first one I remember, too.  Vader was scary!  I wonder what kids thought of Kylo Ren when they first saw him.  It’s not quite the same because Kylo isn’t physically broken (which, of course, you didn’t know until he took off the mask), just emotionally and psychologically; the scariest thing about him is he might go off on you.  Vader was more ‘cool’ than that, but he had that added element of scariness attached to the idea that we thought he must be really hideous under the mask.  But even Cylons scared me as a kid.  It’s the unknown that’s powerful.  

Anyway, back OT, I don’t know if the purported kiss is going to happen, but I won’t be too shocked if it does.  Because I’ll be too busy laughing and crying at the same time.
@Casper


+ 1 (I mean +45 one) LOL (which is a "code" for "laughing out loud")

Anyone freaked out at the cave scene in TESB like I did?
@Darth_Awakened

Yep, I freaked out at the cave scene-- I was eight years old, and symbolism was not yet a Thing to me.  Smile I remember being like "WHAT HAPPENED???!!!"  And I know I've written about this ad nauseum here, but the "No, I am your father" scene-- aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggghhhh!!!!  My best friend and I were grabbing each other's arms and hissing, "No, Luke!  Don't believe him!  That's the Dark side talking!!!"  By the end of that summer, though, I had mulled it over enough that, like Luke, I knew it to be true.  When ROTJ came around, I was a tween and that part of your brain that does abstract thinking had matured, so the redemption of Darth Vader hit me hard-- in a good way.  

Not knowing what would happen to all these characters back when the OT was incomplete was kind of like where we all are right now-- days away from seeing TLJ, and two years away from the conclusion of the trilogy.  I am so excited to see where it goes, but the suspense and making up the many possibilities in your own head has a certain magic to it, just like it did back then. Smile
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by DarthRen on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 2:12 am

So we have humanitarian Kylo leak and screw raw powah - kiss of life leak with Kylo and Rey.

The way these people described it, I hope that this is not true or at lest not even entire truth. I'd love to see Kylo's compassion or them kissing but not like this. I have to say, it's hilarious to read it all and imagining some of it.

Although, kissing in the spur-of-the-moment before death. It's kinda cliche in the movies, but it can in theory work, if done properly.
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by Casper on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 4:18 am

@snufkin wrote:
@Casper

All of this is awesome! One of the great things about this group is the perspectives from different nationalities/cultures and hearing what it means for representation and seeing heroines like Rey, Jyn, Rose, Paige, Leia, et cetera be at the center of the story versus being in the service (or under the control of) the mae characters. Also this seems appropriate given the more snide dismissals of the discussion/analysis that's happened here and elsewhere - reduced to misogyny, condescension and mockery. Especially because part of the analysis is that the heroine's coming-of-age story includes exploring her sexuality and that the villain presents himself to her (and the parts of the audience who aren't straight men) in a manner that is about being the object of the female gaze/for her pleasure

To the extent that this phenomenon gets noted outside of the safe spaces of Tumblr and BuzzFeed, it tends to get treated with condescension — a time-honored way to play down the destabilizing power of female crushes since at least the era of Elvis. As a demographic, teenage girls are routinely sexualized, but when they sexualize someone right on back, they get mocked for their attraction. The disdain heaped on grown women, meanwhile, is a bit more implicit, the idea that they’re reaching beyond what they actually deserve.
@snufkin

Ugh, that's so true, isn't it?  When you're a young girl and you're attracted to somebody, it's 'silly.'  When you're older, it's 'sad.'  

Also, lol at this part:

"Also, whose day isn’t immediately improved by this picture?"

I'm not familiar with the gif, so my answer is, 'It would depend on whose a** that is.'  But I digress.

I just can't believe that we're finally talking about the "heroine's coming-of-age story."  When I was a kid, the hero's journey was always just that, it was about the hero, the male.  The only female equivalent I heard over the years was the maiden/mother/crone thing, which practically dictates that a girl has to become a mother before she can mature, and then gets rewarded for that tough job by ultimately become a crone.  Apart from being mysterious and kind of magical, who wants to be a crone?  I'm not going to pretend to fully comprehend what the heroine's coming-of-age story is, but it's cool now that it's actually sewn into the narrative of a massively distributed piece of pop culture, the next installment of which will imminently reach millions and millions of young minds, both male and female.  And even though it may take some time for them to scratch below the surface of that narrative, it's there.  

And it's almost here.  Oh my God!  I’m just getting really excited now.  Oh, and I just realized that my post about “igniting the imaginations of girls everywhere” would have totally been approved by Poe Dameron.  Approves

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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by ReyofLightSide on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:47 am

@vaderito wrote:This is totally legit! And big cheer for the new ship, Sleia:



cheers cheers cheers lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!
@vaderito

Sneia for the win! I love that they couched it with "before he got ugly". Laughing
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by vaderito on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:58 am

@ZioRen That new leak is one of those that start off good and you think maybe this time it's real, but the more he talks the more FAF is revealed. Like this dumb reveal that KoR are discarded Storm Troopers, lmao! And the whole "Finn doesn't have much to do" spiel. All his comments are basically "Only Luke matters, eevryone else is just there threading the waters." FAF!
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by LesCousinsDangereux on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 2:28 pm

@vaderito wrote:@ZioRen That new leak is one of those that start off good and you think maybe this time it's real, but the more he talks the more FAF is revealed. Like this dumb reveal that KoR are discarded Storm Troopers, lmao! And the whole "Finn doesn't have much to do" spiel. All his comments are basically "Only Luke matters, eevryone else is just there threading the waters." FAF!
@vaderito

I think you are a bit too absolute in your criticism. You discredit it based on Finn and Luke, but those parts were quite plausible (and he did not say or imply anywhere that only Luke matters and the rest are treading water). I personally thought this may be legit in the beginning, (and thought maybe I should stop reading! Smile ), a bit later I was not sure, and now I think it is not. (Also it seems this guy did not know that the first words are “We’re not” and claimed the first line was ‘We’re approaching the surpremacy”. He had missed the news about the ‘not’. If one is to make a credible fake leak, one needs to keep up with all the recent news/developments Smile )

But what he says is credible (as in "not incredible"), and there is nothing too outlandish. Much of what he says we know/ can guess ourselves, and other stuff seems plausible.

As for Finn he says he is important to the resistance plot, but for him that storyline was overshadowed by the mystical/force stuff. Which makes sense. I also think Finn’s role and adventures with Rose & DJ are not that important in the overall story, compared to Rey and Kylo, and Luke and Snoke. Now Finn fans (and/or Poe fans) may find the resistance plot more interesting and it can be more important to them. Which is fair enough. Different people have different preferences and priorities.

I do not find the KoR = ex-stromtroopers completely unbelievable. At least it is different and unexpected and he came up with something original. I cannot rule it out 100%, as some other fake leaks, like Rey is Snoke's child. One can consider both unlikely, but they are not unlikely to the same degree.

What makes me think it is likely not true (apart from the wrong opening line which I only read later) is the 3 force ghosts, the 4 colors of lightsabers, Kylo ending up in in Mustafar. I feel these are the wishes of fanboys (they want the force ghosts – please no Hayden – they want lots of lightsabers, they want kyber crystals, they want Mustafar – and generally anything Vader/Annakin related). So if many items from the wish lists are included, I tend to think it is more what the author wishes would happen, ie fake. (But RJ is also male and SW fan, so who knows? : ) Also, Rose likes Finn who likes Rey who is intrigued by Kylo and vice versa, does not seem true to me. Where is the romantic drama then? But who knows, maybe RJ considers being mutually intrigued is romantic drama …  

On the whole I think this is likely fake, but not entirely sure. All the other leaks I have read I was sure they were fake. I guess we shall know soon … Smile Anyway, I hope it is fake, because I hope for something even better (more Reylo for starters Smile )


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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by vaderito on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 2:30 pm

Yeah, too much fan service. FAF!
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 2:55 pm

That new, long as heck, "crack" spoiler comes the closest to what the movie could actually be like in my mind. Like, I felt like I could be reading the real thing or something like it. HOW on Earth would someone remember that much detail about the movie after one viewing though? Ugh! Nine days!
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by snufkin on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 12:25 am

@Casper wrote:I just can't believe that we're finally talking about the "heroine's coming-of-age story."  When I was a kid, the hero's journey was always just that, it was about the hero, the male.  The only female equivalent I heard over the years was the maiden/mother/crone thing, which practically dictates that a girl has to become a mother before she can mature, and then gets rewarded for that tough job by ultimately become a crone.  Apart from being mysterious and kind of magical, who wants to be a crone?  I'm not going to pretend to fully comprehend what the heroine's coming-of-age story is, but it's cool now that it's actually sewn into the narrative of a massively distributed piece of pop culture, the next installment of which will imminently reach millions and millions of young minds, both male and female.  And even though it may take some time for them to scratch below the surface of that narrative, it's there.  

@Casper

I suspect some of this would've been covered if Carrie Fisher hadn't passed away suddenly and was able to talk about her role in shaping the story and working w/Rian Johnson on the script. Because she had opinions on how women are treated in by Hollywood given her mother's career and her own. And Leia gets a full arc to go from a young woman to an old woman with actual wrinkles/grey hair/position of authority and respect besides being a wife and mother (and despite what happened, there was a romance between her and Han in TFA which was a different one that what you'd typically see).

Guys instead of reading this stuff and getting stressed out, why not write your own and post to Reddit. We all know that we've come up with better jokes and plausible storylines that whatever gets trotted out over there.

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Post by Piper Maru on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 6:07 am

>Snoke is Emperor, Vader and other Sith lords living in one body.

Obviously it's crack, but that would be actually pretty cool and merge well with the lore they began to build in Aftermath.
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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by Kessel on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 6:24 am

Anything that says Rey turns evil is fake.

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Re: The "Crack" Spoiler Discussion Thread

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 06 Dec 2017, 6:29 am

@Kessel wrote:Anything that says Rey turns evil is fake.
@Kessel

Agree. Daisy herself seemed to imply that Rey becoming the villain while Kylo would become the hero won't happen. "Rey turn to the DS" theory is pretty dead now, along with Rey Solo and Reywalker.
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