TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 11:36 am

@PalmettoBlue wrote:@darth dingbat:
I tend to agree - this trailer has thrown all I thought I knew about the timeline of the movie into question. But what it has done is make me look again at the Topp's Trading Cards. I know they've said it doesn't mean anything, but...history says something different in that the trading card lists have been telling with movies past. What do y'all think?
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@PalmettoBlue

Welcome and thank you for refreshing our memory by posting this!
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Post by DarthRen on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 11:45 am

@PalmettoBlue wrote:@darth dingbat:
I tend to agree - this trailer has thrown all I thought I knew about the timeline of the movie into question. But what it has done is make me look again at the Topp's Trading Cards. I know they've said it doesn't mean anything, but...history says something different in that the trading card lists have been telling with movies past. What do y'all think?
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 Screen10
@PalmettoBlue

The fury of Kylo Ren? Confus

Millenium Falcon flees, they did in the caves on Crait, it looked like it.

Heroes United aka manly tears.
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Post by bashfulblueeyes3 on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 11:49 am

I wonder if the Millenium Falcon flees, is everyone on the Falcon fleeing Crait? If it is correctly placed in a timeline. It would a wonderful callback to the other movies, as little as it is. I would love to see everyone flying together in the MF. It reminds me when Han, Leia, Luke, Chewie and the droids were altogether Sad

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Post by PalmettoBlue on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 11:51 am

I've got the feeling that the movie has quite a few things happening concurrently. I think that Rey is still on Ahcht-To while Finn and Rose head to Canto Bight (perhaps that segment is shorter than I previously thought), so the two primary locales are Ahcht-To and Crait with the [i]Supremacy[i] interspersed?
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Post by Moonjump05 on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 1:15 pm

So, uh, kinda spitballing here but Kylo being in Forces of Destiny had me thinking that perhaps the offered hand we saw in the trailer was closer to the middle of the movie and not the end and that Rey accepts and goes with Kylo for a time before the Crait battle. This would let a side story be told in FoD with the two during act 2 of TLJ, presumably while FinnRose are off at Canto Bight.

Thoughts?
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Post by IoJovi on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 1:19 pm

@Moonjump05 wrote:So, uh, kinda spitballing here but Kylo being in Forces of Destiny had me thinking that perhaps the offered hand we saw in the trailer was closer to the middle of the movie and not the end and that Rey accepts and goes with Kylo for a time before the Crait battle. This would let a side story be told in FoD with the two during act 2 of TLJ, presumably while FinnRose are off at Canto Bight.

Thoughts?
@Moonjump05

Count me in on this too. No way are they going to show the money shot from the end of the film in the trailer. Me thinks Rey and Kylo’s relationship actually goes beyond an outstretched hand, and I’m still not ruling out a kiss (or even an almost kiss). If we do get one, THAT’S going to be what’s waiting for us at the end.

Mark Hamill’s tweet where he says that the trailer is just a hint of things to come supports this.
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Post by DarthRen on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 1:44 pm

@Moonjump05 wrote:So, uh, kinda spitballing here but Kylo being in Forces of Destiny had me thinking that perhaps the offered hand we saw in the trailer was closer to the middle of the movie and not the end and that Rey accepts and goes with Kylo for a time before the Crait battle.  This would let a side story be told in FoD with the two during act 2 of TLJ, presumably while FinnRose are off at Canto Bight.

Thoughts?
@Moonjump05

Yeah, it must be from earlier parts of the movie Ach-To or somewhere else before Crait/SSD = Supremacy. Rey and presumably Kylo ends up with Snoke at the end of Act II or somewhere in Act III there. Still don't like the idea of Kylo leading Rey to Snoke, knowing what he'll do to her. Unless First Order captures them somehow. They have to progress into a trustworthy relationship.

@IoJovi

Someone is optimistic with the kiss. I'd rather save it for Episode IX (there'll be a lot of stuff in TLJ) but not like I'm gonna be throwing popcorn at the screen or be salty. Speaking of salt, hello to Anne of Saltville.

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Post by Lily Snape on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 1:55 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:So, uh, kinda spitballing here but Kylo being in Forces of Destiny had me thinking that perhaps the offered hand we saw in the trailer was closer to the middle of the movie and not the end and that Rey accepts and goes with Kylo for a time before the Crait battle.  This would let a side story be told in FoD with the two during act 2 of TLJ, presumably while FinnRose are off at Canto Bight.

Thoughts?
@Moonjump05

Count me in on this too.  No way are they going to show the money shot from the end of the film in the trailer.  Me thinks Rey and Kylo’s relationship actually goes beyond an outstretched hand, and I’m still not ruling out a kiss (or even an almost kiss).  If we do get one, THAT’S going to be what’s waiting for us at the end.

Mark Hamill’s tweet where he says that the trailer is just a hint of things to come supports this.
@IoJovi

My guess is something like this for Kylo's plot line:

--Recovery, humiliated by Snoke for his failure
--Heads off to D'Qar battle to prove himself 
--Can't bring himself to shoot down his mother -- either he hesitates and gets knocked off course and the decision is taken away from him, or he just can't.
--Angry at himself, heads off to Ahch-To with or without the KOR to find Luke and confront Rey (angry, pointing lightsaber scene?)
--Things don't go as planned on Ahch-To, because he starts out to fight Rey but ends up connecting with her.  
--But he doesn't defect from the FO at this point.  This is Zuko with Katara in the Crystal Cave, basically, if you've seen Avatar-- it's the strong temptation to the Light that he rejects before finally turning st some point in the future.  He's gone too far, etc.  Who knows, Rey might be angry or, depending on how she's dealing with her Force powers, she might understand it.
--Regardless, he goes back to the FO in time for the battle of Crait.
--When Rey is under threat from Snoke, he breaks and joins her.  Battle against the Praetorian Guard.
--And who knows what happens after that.

The scenes he's in with fire in them are interesting:  there's the one from the teaser with him angrily pointing his lightsaber at someone, and there's him calmly offering someone his trembling hand.  Are these the same scene?  Maybe one might be a flashback -- maybe the lightsaber scene is him at the destruction of the Jedi academy, angrily confronting Luke.  His scar isn't visible to help with placing that scene in the timeline.  Random thoughts, anyway.
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Post by vaderito on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 2:12 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:@darth dingbat:
I tend to agree - this trailer has thrown all I thought I knew about the timeline of the movie into question. But what it has done is make me look again at the Topp's Trading Cards. I know they've said it doesn't mean anything, but...history says something different in that the trading card lists have been telling with movies past. What do y'all think?
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 Screen10
@PalmettoBlue

Welcome and thank you for refreshing our memory by posting this!
@Darth_Awakened

Trading cards are still not reflecting the order of scenes. Crait is not at the beginning. Finn's recovery is definitely before Crait, long before Crait.
It seems a good order from 102 to 110 though Heroes Unite is something that happens when Crait battle begins. Unless there's extra union at the end, that's not the last scene. or...which heroes? There are heroes and there are heroes.

Also, lets not forget that Oscar hints that he may have scenes with Mark near the end and we haven't seen a peep of Mark/Luke outside of Ahch-to. Yet MSW also reported that Luke goes for Snoke and Rey for Kylo near the end of the movie. So...
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Post by DarthRen on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 2:19 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:@darth dingbat:
I tend to agree - this trailer has thrown all I thought I knew about the timeline of the movie into question. But what it has done is make me look again at the Topp's Trading Cards. I know they've said it doesn't mean anything, but...history says something different in that the trading card lists have been telling with movies past. What do y'all think?
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 Screen10
@PalmettoBlue

Welcome and thank you for refreshing our memory by posting this!
@Darth_Awakened

Trading cards are still not reflecting the order of scenes. Crait is not at the beginning. Finn's recovery is definitely before Crait, long before Crait.
It seems a good order from 102 to 110 though Heroes Unite is something that happens when Crait battle begins. Unless there's extra union at the end, that's not the last scene. or...which heroes? There are heroes and there are heroes.

Also, lets not forget that Oscar hints that he may have scenes with Mark near the end and we haven't seen a peep of Mark/Luke outside of Ahch-to. Yet MSW also reported that Luke goes for Snoke and Rey for Kylo near the end of the movie. So...
@vaderito

MSW has been recently in some instances widely off the mark or unsure. Going after someone implies to catch or engage them in a fight. Certainly Luke going after Snoke would tell you that. Doubt, Rey would go after Kylo with Praetorian guards fighting scene in mind. Unless, Kylo bertrays them and that is simply highly unlikely or we're missing something very key here.
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Post by vaderito on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 2:34 pm

@DarthRen I think that people are thrown off by Rey/Snoke scene because of her missing bruise and that has created doubts about the timeline. But focusing on stuff like bruise is losing a big picture cause those are the easiest details to goof and they are often goofed. So it really doesn't matter whether she has a bruise or not, what matters is whether having such a scene makes sense in Act 2 or in Act 3 (we know it's not happening in Act 1).

IMO, the biggest reason why timeline is hard to pinpoint is that we don't know how, why and what combination of Ahch-to set leaves Ahch-to. We have an excellent timeline on Finn and Rose, for example. We don't know how they get off Supremacy and return to Crait but we know that they do. OTOH, we know that Rey, Chewie, MF and a Porg get off Ahch-to, and obviously Kylo does too since he's on Crait as well, but we don't know whether first set leaves with Kylo or they leave separately and where is Luke? We know that there will be Rey, Luke, Kylo on Ahch-to and then Rey on crait with the Resistance and Kylo on Crait with FO and no trace of Luke even though oscar said "near the end" so Luke definitely won't stay on Ahch-to. So it's really Ahch-to that messes all up.


Last edited by vaderito on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 2:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by reylo1992 on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 2:34 pm

@Lily Snape wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:So, uh, kinda spitballing here but Kylo being in Forces of Destiny had me thinking that perhaps the offered hand we saw in the trailer was closer to the middle of the movie and not the end and that Rey accepts and goes with Kylo for a time before the Crait battle.  This would let a side story be told in FoD with the two during act 2 of TLJ, presumably while FinnRose are off at Canto Bight.

Thoughts?
@Moonjump05

Count me in on this too.  No way are they going to show the money shot from the end of the film in the trailer.  Me thinks Rey and Kylo’s relationship actually goes beyond an outstretched hand, and I’m still not ruling out a kiss (or even an almost kiss).  If we do get one, THAT’S going to be what’s waiting for us at the end.

Mark Hamill’s tweet where he says that the trailer is just a hint of things to come supports this.
@IoJovi

My guess is something like this for Kylo's plot line:

--Recovery, humiliated by Snoke for his failure
--Heads off to D'Qar battle to prove himself 
--Can't bring himself to shoot down his mother -- either he hesitates and gets knocked off course and the decision is taken away from him, or he just can't.
--Angry at himself, heads off to Ahch-To with or without the KOR to find Luke and confront Rey (angry, pointing lightsaber scene?)
--Things don't go as planned on Ahch-To, because he starts out to fight Rey but ends up connecting with her.  
--But he doesn't defect from the FO at this point.  This is Zuko with Katara in the Crystal Cave, basically, if you've seen Avatar-- it's the strong temptation to the Light that he rejects before finally turning st some point in the future.  He's gone too far, etc.  Who knows, Rey might be angry or, depending on how she's dealing with her Force powers, she might understand it.
--Regardless, he goes back to the FO in time for the battle of Crait.
--When Rey is under threat from Snoke, he breaks and joins her.  Battle against the Praetorian Guard.
--And who knows what happens after that.

The scenes he's in with fire in them are interesting:  there's the one from the teaser with him angrily pointing his lightsaber at someone, and there's him calmly offering someone his trembling hand.  Are these the same scene?  Maybe one might be a flashback -- maybe the lightsaber scene is him at the destruction of the Jedi academy, angrily confronting Luke.  His scar isn't visible to help with placing that scene in the timeline.  Random thoughts, anyway.
@Lily Snape

Hard to draw conclusion from that shot but we can tell that:
- 1) He has a scar in this shot so unless he got one while fighting the students, I would bet that this happens for real.Or maybe Rey has a vision of him pointing the saber like that
- 2) It doesn't seem like he is wearing his black plaster here although it is hard to tell
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 Captur75
- 3) I am not sure about it but I think that there is a black form behind him  and I don't think it's smoke. It doesn't look like the building of the academy so judging by the form I would put my money on the Force tree
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 Captur77

That he would put the saber angrily at Luke would be anything but surprising. And at Rey wouldn't surprising either given how their previous interaction ended. In any case, it seems that he is in "rawpowah" mood there and that looks like a big explosion behind him.
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Post by PalmettoBlue on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 2:39 pm

I'm giving the trading cards slightly more credence than before because of the trailer scenes. When Kylo is leading those stormtroopers, it seems like it could be on Crait, and I guess because I REALLY want him to change sides, I want that to be at the beginning of the movie. I fully acknowledge the depth of my fangirl wishful thinking here. No need to remind me. lol!

However, I stand by a previous post I made: I think that this movie is set primarily on two planets (Ahch-To and Crait) and to a lesser extent the Supremacy. To expand on that thought: I think some events are happening concurrently - Rey on Ahch-To, Leia and company on Crait, Finn sent to Canto Bight with Rose, then onto either the Finalizer or the Supremacy. They all end on Crait (at least who is left.)
My other hope: that this does not end like Empire with all the threads dangling for two years.
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Post by vaderito on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 2:48 pm

@reylo1992 You are a genius!

Look! That structure behind him is not moving so it isn't flames:

TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 Giphy

I bet it's the Force Tree too cause, as you pointed out, it looks like the Force Tree and not like Angkor Vat. And Jason saw the tree in flames.

Also, this is the best blow-up of that image I could fine to determine whether he has the stitches or not:

TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 87

I would say no. I watched the teaser on Full Screen and I don't think he has them but it's very hard to see.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 3:02 pm

That one continues to be such a puzzling shot. To me it looks like there's both fire and water (rain), if that's possible. And then that bright light, like the sun, behind him - I can't guess what that might be.

Btw I looked at the high-res screenshot of that shot again, and on my screen the reflection in his eye actually looks green, not blue. I suppose the tone should be easy enough to check but unfortunately I don't have photoshop or a similar program.
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Post by vaderito on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 3:07 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:That one continues to be such a puzzling shot. To me it looks like there's both fire and water (rain), if that's possible. And then that bright light, like the sun, behind him - I can't guess what that might be.

Btw I looked at the high-res screenshot of that shot again, and on my screen the reflection in his eye actually looks green, not blue. I suppose the tone should be easy enough to check but unfortunately I don't have photoshop or a similar program.
@Darth Dingbat

keep in mind that we don't know what exactly reflects in his eye. Could be green screen, cameras, etc. Unless they digitally added a lightsaber. It's hard to know there days. Like, I bet that Finn's reflection on Phasma helmet was added cause they wanted such a shot. But I'm not sure if they want reflection in Kylo's eyes this time around (they definitely wanted crossed sabers reflected in his and Rey's eyes in TFA).

That's why I'm not putting too much stock on rey's bruise or lack thereof. It could be added digitally or it could be removed digitally. They do that with blood (remove from the trailer).
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Post by Irina de France on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 5:01 pm

So instead of studying for my exams, I did a tentative outline for TLJ. I hate myself. It's pretty detailed, but I've added some speculation based on what we already know.

Act 1
- Film opens with FO attempting to reassemble the troops after SKB getting destroyed.
- Snoke has Kylo, Hux and Phasma in an audience: he is of course NOT happy, and he chews out Kylo in particular for extra humiliation points. There’s talk of course about the GURRRL, and an attack is to be launched on the D’Qar base. In order to prove himself once again, since killing Han clearly wasn’t enough, Snoke strongly implies to Kylo that he’ll have to kill his mother as well. Queue Kylo breaking down in the elevator afterwards and slamming his helmet against the wall.
- Kylo leads the attack on D’Qar, does cool sith with his TIE fighter, but when he comes to a point where all he’ll have to do is pull the trigger to end Leia’s life, he finds himself unable to (add in Leia speaking telepathically with her son for extra sob points). He flees from the battle, blames everything that’s going wrong on Rey, and goes to Ahch-To to settle it once and for all.
- Nevertheless, the Resistance is not doing well. Finn is abruptly awake from his coma because of the attack (maybe he meets Rose at that moment?). Since Poe gets demoted, it’s possible that either Poe makes a mistake and is demoted because of it, and the Resistance got out of a disaster mainly because of Admiral Holdo’s intervention.
- Poe, however, smells something fishy about Holdo (maybe something along the lines of “No way the FO could have had us so easily, someone betrayed us, and her intervention was just too perfect), and convinces Finn and Rose to go on a mission (perhaps one that was initially going to Poe and Paige?): go to Canto Bight, and break out DJ out of prison since he has information about the FO that may be vital to the Resistance.
- Meanwhile, Rey is on Ahch-To with Luke. He is not happy of seeing her there, and he refuses to go back to the Resistance. Rey notices there’s something “off” with him, but keeps sticking around. She tries to get Luke’s attention otherwise, while trying to make sense of the Force sensitivity that has manifested in her.
- Rey goes around the island, finds the Force tree, and Luke finally starts answering some of her questions. He reluctantly accepts to help her meditate, and they do so near a cliff. However, he is frightened by Rey’s raw power, and she accidentally breaks the cliff off. They fall in the water.
- So… considering Daisy had to go and experience lucid dreams… there could be a Force vision at that moment Rey is under the water. Probably Ben’s past? What went down with Luke? Long story short, her perspective about him is shaken, and as she breaks free of the vision, she realizes she’s drowning. She panics, since she doesn’t know how to swim, cut to Kylo in his TIE fighter heading to Ahch-To, he senses her distress via her connection, then speaks in her mind about how to get out of the water. Kylo is angry at himself for having, once again, compassion for the girl, and when Rey comes out of the water and sees Luke who has managed to get out and has made a fire, she gets angry at him. Luke just stares at her and asks her what she has seen.
- Rey confronts him. Luke outright tells her Kylo is a freak of nature, and that if he comes to Ahch-To, she will have to kill him. Rey refuses, and begs Luke to help her. He replies to her that she frightens him too much, and that to get his trust at the very least, she’ll have to deal with Kylo. (And make sure to leave the audience very uncomfortable with the fact that if Luke thinks Kylo is a freak, and seems to believe Rey is too, if he thinks killing off Kylo is a good idea, imagine what could happen to Rey…)

Act 2
- Kylo arrives on Ahch-To, and is all vengeful. Rey rushes to fight him, but similarly to the fight on SKB, she is now the one who doesn’t want to kill him. At the moment where he seems about to win, she drops the bomb about what she’s seen in the Force vision.
- Kylo is shaken, and Rey leads him to one of the huts, not wanting Luke to see them together and not looking so hostile with each other. She explains to Kylo everything she has seen, and what Luke has said about him. He suggests helping Rey to meditate. She does… but once again, she has an accident by blowing up the hut. She looks like she’s about to cry, thinking that Kylo might reject her like Luke did… but he extends a hand to her.
- Luke, meanwhile, has sensed them together, and has set fire to the Force tree to make sure Rey and Kylo don’t get their hands on the books. Kylo is about to attack Luke, but Rey begs him to just let him be. He agrees, but both of them decide to stick together in case Luke would come to want to harm one of them out of fear. If they stay together, Luke will be too afraid of their combined power to attack them directly.
- [So the time gap here between Rey and Kylo teaming up and the departure from Ahch-To could easily be a future FoD episode with those two with the Porgs co-starring. And I’m sure me and @“snufkin” would have a blast making jokes about those two discovering they have interests in common and Kylo coaxing Rey into a potential date at the Imperial Archives]
- Meanwhile, Finn and Rose go to Canto Bight, put some comedy here and there, they break DJ out of prison, he gives them the information they need but sells them out to the Canto Bight police, and they escape in extremis, and go back to the Resistance, since they know a lot of info about Holdo that might be useful for Poe to reveal her true intentions.

Act 3
- The First Order has managed to track down Kylo on Ahch-To (Note that from now on, I’m putting a question mark on Luke). Rey, Kylo, Chewie and a Porg escape. The FO manages to catch up with them. In order to give everyone their best chance, Kylo asks Rey: “Do you trust me?”
- The MF seemingly surrenders and boards a Star Destroyer. Kylo comes out, claims to have made prisoners of Rey and Chewie. But before they’re taken away, he comes close to Rey and put here the infamous “I’ll come back for you, sweetheart, I promise”. As Rey is dragged away, they can’t take off their eyes from each other: queue the shippers and the antis screaming in unison (albeit not for the same reasons).
- Holdo has brought Leia and the Resistance on Crait, but it’s a trap: Finn and Rose inform Poe of it. He informs Leia, shows her proof, but it’s already too late to escape the FO.
- Kylo is about to seemingly join the attack on Crait, but he intends to use the confusion of the battle to break Rey and Chewie out of prison, and escape with the two of them. He is interrupted by Snoke announcing his arrival (which is exceptional, considering that Snoke doesn’t usually go to battle locations), and demanding to see him. And of course, he has Rey come as well.
- Meanwhile, the Resistance and the FO are fighting each other on Crait, and the situation is quickly becoming desperate. Finn and Rose infiltrate the FO and disguise themselves as officers, in order to blow up some of the FO’s resources to give the Resistance a chance. They plant explosives in a hangar, but get caught by Phasma and a bunch of stormtroopers. Rose is made a prisoner, while Finn is taken to reconditioning (basically be brainwashed and reveal some Resistance secrets), but since the thermal detonators were timed, they explode, which starts out a panic among the FO.
- In the throne room, Snoke gives Kylo an ultimatum: either he watches Rey getting a slow and painful death, either he kills her and proves himself. Rey gets tortured, and after hesitating for a few seconds, Kylo grabs his lightsaber from the ground, ignites it… and attacks the Praetorian guards. Snoke, being now vulnerable, flees, and Rey manages to regain enough of her senses to fight the guards with Kylo.
- Finn and Phasma duel. Rose intervenes and manages to harm Phasma, but the latter wounds her. Finn cuts off her arm in a fit of rage, grabs Rose and tries to find a way out.
- Rey and Kylo defeat the guards, manage to find Chewie, and fall across Finn and Rose. They manage to get back to the Resistance.
- The diversion provided by Finn and Rose wasn’t enough to have the Resistance win the battle, but it did give them an opportunity to retreat, albeit with very heavy losses. Rey comes to Leia, but instead of bringing back Luke, as she asked of her, she brings back her son.
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Post by DarthRen on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 5:48 pm

@Irina de France wrote:So instead of studying for my exams, I did a tentative outline for TLJ. I hate myself. It's pretty detailed, but I've added some speculation based on what we already know.

Act 1
- Film opens with FO attempting to reassemble the troops after SKB getting destroyed.
- Snoke has Kylo, Hux and Phasma in an audience: he is of course NOT happy, and he chews out Kylo in particular for extra humiliation points. There’s talk of course about the GURRRL, and an attack is to be launched on the D’Qar base. In order to prove himself once again, since killing Han clearly wasn’t enough, Snoke strongly implies to Kylo that he’ll have to kill his mother as well. Queue Kylo breaking down in the elevator afterwards and slamming his helmet against the wall.
- Kylo leads the attack on D’Qar, does cool sith with his TIE fighter, but when he comes to a point where all he’ll have to do is pull the trigger to end Leia’s life, he finds himself unable to (add in Leia speaking telepathically with her son for extra sob points). He flees from the battle, blames everything that’s going wrong on Rey, and goes to Ahch-To to settle it once and for all.
- Nevertheless, the Resistance is not doing well. Finn is abruptly awake from his coma because of the attack (maybe he meets Rose at that moment?). Since Poe gets demoted, it’s possible that either Poe makes a mistake and is demoted because of it, and the Resistance got out of a disaster mainly because of Admiral Holdo’s intervention.
- Poe, however, smells something fishy about Holdo (maybe something along the lines of “No way the FO could have had us so easily, someone betrayed us, and her intervention was just too perfect), and convinces Finn and Rose to go on a mission (perhaps one that was initially going to Poe and Paige?): go to Canto Bight, and break out DJ out of prison since he has information about the FO that may be vital to the Resistance.
- Meanwhile, Rey is on Ahch-To with Luke. He is not happy of seeing her there, and he refuses to go back to the Resistance. Rey notices there’s something “off” with him, but keeps sticking around. She tries to get Luke’s attention otherwise, while trying to make sense of the Force sensitivity that has manifested in her.
- Rey goes around the island, finds the Force tree, and Luke finally starts answering some of her questions. He reluctantly accepts to help her meditate, and they do so near a cliff. However, he is frightened by Rey’s raw power, and she accidentally breaks the cliff off. They fall in the water.
- So… considering Daisy had to go and experience lucid dreams… there could be a Force vision at that moment Rey is under the water. Probably Ben’s past? What went down with Luke? Long story short, her perspective about him is shaken, and as she breaks free of the vision, she realizes she’s drowning. She panics, since she doesn’t know how to swim, cut to Kylo in his TIE fighter heading to Ahch-To, he senses her distress via her connection, then speaks in her mind about how to get out of the water. Kylo is angry at himself for having, once again, compassion for the girl, and when Rey comes out of the water and sees Luke who has managed to get out and has made a fire, she gets angry at him. Luke just stares at her and asks her what she has seen.
- Rey confronts him. Luke outright tells her Kylo is a freak of nature, and that if he comes to Ahch-To, she will have to kill him. Rey refuses, and begs Luke to help her. He replies to her that she frightens him too much, and that to get his trust at the very least, she’ll have to deal with Kylo. (And make sure to leave the audience very uncomfortable with the fact that if Luke thinks Kylo is a freak, and seems to believe Rey is too, if he thinks killing off Kylo is a good idea, imagine what could happen to Rey…)

Act 2
- Kylo arrives on Ahch-To, and is all vengeful. Rey rushes to fight him, but similarly to the fight on SKB, she is now the one who doesn’t want to kill him. At the moment where he seems about to win, she drops the bomb about what she’s seen in the Force vision.
- Kylo is shaken, and Rey leads him to one of the huts, not wanting Luke to see them together and not looking so hostile with each other. She explains to Kylo everything she has seen, and what Luke has said about him. He suggests helping Rey to meditate. She does… but once again, she has an accident by blowing up the hut. She looks like she’s about to cry, thinking that Kylo might reject her like Luke did… but he extends a hand to her.
- Luke, meanwhile, has sensed them together, and has set fire to the Force tree to make sure Rey and Kylo don’t get their hands on the books. Kylo is about to attack Luke, but Rey begs him to just let him be. He agrees, but both of them decide to stick together in case Luke would come to want to harm one of them out of fear. If they stay together, Luke will be too afraid of their combined power to attack them directly.
- [So the time gap here between Rey and Kylo teaming up and the departure from Ahch-To could easily be a future FoD episode with those two with the Porgs co-starring. And I’m sure me and @“snufkin” would have a blast making jokes about those two discovering they have interests in common and Kylo coaxing Rey into a potential date at the Imperial Archives]
- Meanwhile, Finn and Rose go to Canto Bight, put some comedy here and there, they break DJ out of prison, he gives them the information they need but sells them out to the Canto Bight police, and they escape in extremis, and go back to the Resistance, since they know a lot of info about Holdo that might be useful for Poe to reveal her true intentions.

Act 3
- The First Order has managed to track down Kylo on Ahch-To (Note that from now on, I’m putting a question mark on Luke). Rey, Kylo, Chewie and a Porg escape. The FO manages to catch up with them. In order to give everyone their best chance, Kylo asks Rey: “Do you trust me?”
- The MF seemingly surrenders and boards a Star Destroyer. Kylo comes out, claims to have made prisoners of Rey and Chewie. But before they’re taken away, he comes close to Rey and put here the infamous “I’ll come back for you, sweetheart, I promise”. As Rey is dragged away, they can’t take off their eyes from each other: queue the shippers and the antis screaming in unison (albeit not for the same reasons).
- Holdo has brought Leia and the Resistance on Crait, but it’s a trap: Finn and Rose inform Poe of it. He informs Leia, shows her proof, but it’s already too late to escape the FO.
- Kylo is about to seemingly join the attack on Crait, but he intends to use the confusion of the battle to break Rey and Chewie out of prison, and escape with the two of them. He is interrupted by Snoke announcing his arrival (which is exceptional, considering that Snoke doesn’t usually go to battle locations), and demanding to see him. And of course, he has Rey come as well.
- Meanwhile, the Resistance and the FO are fighting each other on Crait, and the situation is quickly becoming desperate. Finn and Rose infiltrate the FO and disguise themselves as officers, in order to blow up some of the FO’s resources to give the Resistance a chance. They plant explosives in a hangar, but get caught by Phasma and a bunch of stormtroopers. Rose is made a prisoner, while Finn is taken to reconditioning (basically be brainwashed and reveal some Resistance secrets), but since the thermal detonators were timed, they explode, which starts out a panic among the FO.
- In the throne room, Snoke gives Kylo an ultimatum: either he watches Rey getting a slow and painful death, either he kills her and proves himself. Rey gets tortured, and after hesitating for a few seconds, Kylo grabs his lightsaber from the ground, ignites it… and attacks the Praetorian guards. Snoke, being now vulnerable, flees, and Rey manages to regain enough of her senses to fight the guards with Kylo.
- Finn and Phasma duel. Rose intervenes and manages to harm Phasma, but the latter wounds her. Finn cuts off her arm in a fit of rage, grabs Rose and tries to find a way out.
- Rey and Kylo defeat the guards, manage to find Chewie, and fall across Finn and Rose. They manage to get back to the Resistance.
- The diversion provided by Finn and Rose wasn’t enough to have the Resistance win the battle, but it did give them an opportunity to retreat, albeit with very heavy losses. Rey comes to Leia, but instead of bringing back Luke, as she asked of her, she brings back her son.
@Irina de France

Snoke showed how he can freeze peopel with ease. Fleeing doesn't sound like him but maybe illusion?

Also Oscar hinted at maybe having scenes with Mark. I think Luke must rejoin the Resistance and i've heard his X-Wing plays a key role at some point.

Anyway, nice job. Put a lot of effort into this.
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Post by Irina de France on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 5:58 pm

@DarthRen The thing with Snoke is that he's implied to be a lot more vulnerable than he wants others to believe. And considering Rey and Kylo are probably the most powerful Force sensitive of their time, I think Snoke has a good reason to be afraid of them teaming up (and Rey could be a good ressource, but that team up makesher too dangerous to be left alive).
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Post by snufkin on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 6:07 pm

@Irina de France - ha! Funny thing, I'm also eyeballs deep in studying (4 hour credentialling exam the Monday before TLJ's release, eek) and trying to not think about all my theories. Aaaand I'm also about to start working on a project which will include spending time in an archives. So if Kylo drops by, I'll ask him to confirm our theories ; ).

Your outline is where my brain has gone. I'm curious how they'll handle Ben's fall and the backstory. If we get it via a Force vision to Rey or if there will be flashbacks intercut with the present. I wouldn't put it past Johnson to edit the story in a non-linear, parallel narratives style the same way Christopher Nolan did with Dunkirk where you don't get the full picture until the Second Act. The other big question is how much of the "what Luke was doing since RotJ?" will get covered. Newsflash - not impregnating Rey's mum and then ditching them. Will that be included in the movie or saved for tie-in novels? I'm not too worried about the specifics because I have a good feeling and part of the pleasure for me is the journey/surprise. But I totally get why some people want to nail things down so that they don't have a huge shock in the theater.
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Post by Anakin Skywalker on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 7:38 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
ACT I
2 storylines
1. D Qar Batttle (Resistnace + First order)
2. Anch To (Luke and Rey)
Towards the end of the Act I
Kylo meets Snoke
Finn and Rose leave for Canto Baight.
Rey is left alone to discover Anch To

I think Kylo/Snoke scene in throne room is before D Qar Batttle.
1. Snoke orders Kylo something (maybe killing her mother/attack resistance,
2. Kylo in elevator, upset about order
3. Kylo in his tie silencer (from trailer) in  D Qar Batttle.


And do we think that this 2 scenes are from one?
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 KgCB5Tj
behind him is flame, right?

and here are flames too, but it's already extinguished:
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 Tumblr_oxl4mm3gOz1utyv0ho1_1280


And one thing, I already posted it, but then saw that tread.
what if Snoke/Rey scene on Supremacy is during Crait battle? that battle should last minimum 1 day, maybe Kylo started leading FO but then they captured Rey, she was taken to Snoke, was tortured, recieved bruises (after trailer scene) and maybe Snoke wanted Kylo to fulfil his destiny by finishing her or something like that, and that became last reason for Kylo to turn off from Snoke/FO. He fights pretorians, escapes with Rey and that's how she ends up with resistance on Crait.
Kylo/Rey could have moments on Ach-to and it could influence Kylo, but I don't wait that he will change/turn from everything in one day, with one conversation...
and after everything maybe Kylo left everyone (he couldn't just return in resistance, he even wouldn't want) and is in very bad please emotionally, after everything he did for Snoke, for dark side, and now he lost that part of his life, can you imagine how lost he could be, like Adam said "depends on what your idea of living is"... so "last jedi" could end with Kylo gone and maybe Rey after him ...
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Post by reylo1992 on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 7:53 pm

@Anakin Skywalker wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
ACT I
2 storylines
1. D Qar Batttle (Resistnace + First order)
2. Anch To (Luke and Rey)
Towards the end of the Act I
Kylo meets Snoke
Finn and Rose leave for Canto Baight.
Rey is left alone to discover Anch To

I think Kylo/Snoke scene in throne room is before D Qar Batttle.
1. Snoke orders Kylo something (maybe killing her mother/attack resistance,
2. Kylo in elevator, upset about order
3. Kylo in his tie silencer (from trailer) in  D Qar Batttle.


And do we think that this 2 scenes are from one?
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 KgCB5Tj
behind him is flame, right?

and here are flames too, but it's already extinguished:
TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS) - Page 3 Tumblr_oxl4mm3gOz1utyv0ho1_1280


And one thing, I already posted it, but then saw that tread.
what if Snoke/Rey scene on Supremacy is during Crait battle? that battle should last minimum 1 day, maybe Kylo started leading FO but then they captured Rey, she was taken to Snoke, was tortured, recieved bruises (after trailer scene) and maybe Snoke wanted Kylo to fulfil his destiny by finishing her or something like that, and that became last reason for Kylo to turn off from Snoke/FO. He fights pretorians, escapes with Rey and that's how she ends up with resistance on Crait.
Kylo/Rey could have moments on Ach-to and it could influence Kylo, but I don't wait that he will change/turn from everything in one day, with one conversation...
and after everything maybe Kylo left everyone (he couldn't just return in resistance, he even wouldn't want) and is in very bad please emotionally, after everything he did for Snoke, for dark side, and now he lost that part of his life, can you imagine how lost he could be, like Adam said "depends on what your idea of living is"... so "last jedi" could end with Kylo gone and maybe Rey after him ...
@Anakin Skywalker

Agree with you about the two shots. I don't think it is the same scene. But it doesn't that they ain't meant to set a parallel. If I am right about the first shot, the black form behind Kylo is the Force tree. So Kylo would point his lightsaber agressively on Ahch-To, probably at Rey since they would meet again there, so still quite early in the movie. And if I come back to that tumblr post suggesting that the hand offer (https://ceallaigheirinn.tumblr.com/post/166392001848/what-if-the-hand-is-a-goodbye-no-hear-me-out) could maybe happen on Supremacy as the ship is exploding, this shot set the parallel and contrast with the first one on Ahch-To.
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Post by Kylo Men on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 11:27 pm

This is a little off topic, although it's mentioned in at least one of the videos here. Is there ANY reason/evidence to believe that Kylo is training with Snoke's guards in the BTS footage?

Or is it just anti-Reylo rationalization and denial? We know that Rey and Ren would never team up, so therefore he must be training with the guards.

Like, did MSW say it, or something?

Or is it just grasped out of thin air?

Because I keep running into it. And I highly doubt it.

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Post by snufkin on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 11:37 pm

@Kylo Men - Are people claiming it's instead the fantasized 1980s Eye of the Tiger training sequence now that he earned the next level of Darkside training by icing his dad? The topic came up earlier, and @Piper Maru deadpanned, "Yeah, because it makes total sense to train with the bodyguards of your boss. The guards are there to protect Snoke, not to teach Kylo how to fight." Or @ISeeanIsland's response, "you certainly don't let your employees train with your bodyguards when you harbor even a small doubt about the loyalty of said employee." We're all Sopranos fans, so that may be clouding our judgement.

Other factor is that doesn't make sense that in the middle of what looks like a packed schedule of events for the story, there'd be time for the characters to go break for a gym session.
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