TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Kylo Men on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 11:50 pm

And the other thing is that it was supposedly going to be paired with Rey's training from Luke as a counterpoint. But now it looks heavily unlikely that Rey will have training from Luke until late in the film, if at all. So doesn't that blast apart that idea?

I mean, I almost feel sorry wasting logic on this, the idea is so dumb and unlikely. But obviously, the two of them are going to fight the guards.

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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 12:44 am

@Kylo Men wrote:And the other thing is that it was supposedly going to be paired with Rey's training from Luke as a counterpoint. But now it looks heavily unlikely that Rey will have training from Luke until late in the film, if at all. So doesn't that blast apart that idea?

I mean, I almost feel sorry wasting logic on this, the idea is so dumb and unlikely. But obviously, the two of them are going to fight the guards.
@Kylo Men

I agree with you. Pre-trailer, I kind of went along with the assumption that something would change Luke's mind, and he'd reluctantly train Rey. Pre-trailer, we also had no confirmation outside of a Lego box that Kylo was at all involved in the space battle over D'Qar.

But I'm sorry--after seeing that trailer, I am VERY doubtful that Luke trains Rey at all in TLJ after he figures out her "raw strength" in the Force. And we also have confirmation that Kylo participates in the battle of D'Qar...when we know that's super early in the movie (and when any sort of a training sequence for him might take place.)

They fight the guards.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by snufkin on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 12:54 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Kylo Men wrote:And the other thing is that it was supposedly going to be paired with Rey's training from Luke as a counterpoint. But now it looks heavily unlikely that Rey will have training from Luke until late in the film, if at all. So doesn't that blast apart that idea?

I mean, I almost feel sorry wasting logic on this, the idea is so dumb and unlikely. But obviously, the two of them are going to fight the guards.
@Kylo Men

I agree with you. Pre-trailer, I kind of went along with the assumption that something would change Luke's mind, and he'd reluctantly train Rey. Pre-trailer, we also had no confirmation outside of a Lego box that Kylo was at all involved in the space battle over D'Qar.

But I'm sorry--after seeing that trailer, I am VERY doubtful that Luke trains Rey at all in TLJ after he figures out her "raw strength" in the Force. And we also have confirmation that Kylo participates in the battle of D'Qar...when we know that's super early in the movie (and when any sort of a training sequence for him might take place.)

They fight the guards.
@ISeeAnIsland

With the Biblical themes discussion that was back in the early days of this forum, Luke could be the angry Old Testament God who tries to keep the Fruit of Knowledge out of her hands. Does he go to Ache-to in good faith hoping he can find the well of knowledge (RotLA parallels) about what type of Force user/power Ben wields and then what he learns completely freaks him out into staying put. And how does that tie into what he was doing before with gathering lore and having ties to figures like LST?
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 12:58 am

@snufkin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Kylo Men wrote:And the other thing is that it was supposedly going to be paired with Rey's training from Luke as a counterpoint. But now it looks heavily unlikely that Rey will have training from Luke until late in the film, if at all. So doesn't that blast apart that idea?

I mean, I almost feel sorry wasting logic on this, the idea is so dumb and unlikely. But obviously, the two of them are going to fight the guards.
@Kylo Men

I agree with you. Pre-trailer, I kind of went along with the assumption that something would change Luke's mind, and he'd reluctantly train Rey. Pre-trailer, we also had no confirmation outside of a Lego box that Kylo was at all involved in the space battle over D'Qar.

But I'm sorry--after seeing that trailer, I am VERY doubtful that Luke trains Rey at all in TLJ after he figures out her "raw strength" in the Force. And we also have confirmation that Kylo participates in the battle of D'Qar...when we know that's super early in the movie (and when any sort of a training sequence for him might take place.)

They fight the guards.
@ISeeAnIsland

With the Biblical themes discussion that was back in the early days of this forum, Luke could be the angry Old Testament God who tries to keep the Fruit of Knowledge out of her hands. Does he go to Ache-to in good faith hoping he can find the well of knowledge (RotLA parallels) about what type of Force user/power Ben wields and then what he learns completely freaks him out into staying put. And how does that tie into what he was doing before with gathering lore and having ties to figures like LST?
@snufkin

I definitely see that as one possibility. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Luke is the one to burn the tree, so as to keep that knowledge away from Rey and/or Kylo.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 4:01 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Kylo Men wrote:And the other thing is that it was supposedly going to be paired with Rey's training from Luke as a counterpoint. But now it looks heavily unlikely that Rey will have training from Luke until late in the film, if at all. So doesn't that blast apart that idea?

I mean, I almost feel sorry wasting logic on this, the idea is so dumb and unlikely. But obviously, the two of them are going to fight the guards.
@Kylo Men

I agree with you. Pre-trailer, I kind of went along with the assumption that something would change Luke's mind, and he'd reluctantly train Rey. Pre-trailer, we also had no confirmation outside of a Lego box that Kylo was at all involved in the space battle over D'Qar.

But I'm sorry--after seeing that trailer, I am VERY doubtful that Luke trains Rey at all in TLJ after he figures out her "raw strength" in the Force. And we also have confirmation that Kylo participates in the battle of D'Qar...when we know that's super early in the movie (and when any sort of a training sequence for him might take place.)

They fight the guards.
@ISeeAnIsland

With the Biblical themes discussion that was back in the early days of this forum, Luke could be the angry Old Testament God who tries to keep the Fruit of Knowledge out of her hands. Does he go to Ache-to in good faith hoping he can find the well of knowledge (RotLA parallels) about what type of Force user/power Ben wields and then what he learns completely freaks him out into staying put. And how does that tie into what he was doing before with gathering lore and having ties to figures like LST?
@snufkin

I definitely see that as one possibility. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Luke is the one to burn the tree, so as to keep that knowledge away from Rey and/or Kylo.
@ISeeAnIsland

I've been thinking about this too. And it's intriguing to ponder how closely they'd apply the metaphor, if this is the way it goes.

Another way I could see it applying is that Kylo's Eve was the first to fall, urged by Snoke's serpent, and then Rey's Adam gets her share of this forbidden knowledge as well. And from Luke's point of view, the Power Puff Duo must be prevented from having access to something (tree of life) because that would make them even more dangerous.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 4:06 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Kylo Men wrote:And the other thing is that it was supposedly going to be paired with Rey's training from Luke as a counterpoint. But now it looks heavily unlikely that Rey will have training from Luke until late in the film, if at all. So doesn't that blast apart that idea?

I mean, I almost feel sorry wasting logic on this, the idea is so dumb and unlikely. But obviously, the two of them are going to fight the guards.
@Kylo Men

I agree with you. Pre-trailer, I kind of went along with the assumption that something would change Luke's mind, and he'd reluctantly train Rey. Pre-trailer, we also had no confirmation outside of a Lego box that Kylo was at all involved in the space battle over D'Qar.

But I'm sorry--after seeing that trailer, I am VERY doubtful that Luke trains Rey at all in TLJ after he figures out her "raw strength" in the Force. And we also have confirmation that Kylo participates in the battle of D'Qar...when we know that's super early in the movie (and when any sort of a training sequence for him might take place.)

They fight the guards.
@ISeeAnIsland

With the Biblical themes discussion that was back in the early days of this forum, Luke could be the angry Old Testament God who tries to keep the Fruit of Knowledge out of her hands. Does he go to Ache-to in good faith hoping he can find the well of knowledge (RotLA parallels) about what type of Force user/power Ben wields and then what he learns completely freaks him out into staying put. And how does that tie into what he was doing before with gathering lore and having ties to figures like LST?
@snufkin

I definitely see that as one possibility. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Luke is the one to burn the tree, so as to keep that knowledge away from Rey and/or Kylo.
@ISeeAnIsland

I've been thinking about this too. And it's intriguing to ponder how closely they'd apply the metaphor, if this is the way it goes.

Another way I could see it applying is that Kylo's Eve was the first to fall, urged by Snoke's serpent, and then Rey's Adam gets her share of this forbidden knowledge as well. And from Luke's point of view, the Power Puff Duo must be prevented from having access to something (tree of life) because that would make them even more dangerous.
@Darth Dingbat

I definitely can see Luke burning down the tree.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by creepi0 on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 10:44 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Kylo Men wrote:And the other thing is that it was supposedly going to be paired with Rey's training from Luke as a counterpoint. But now it looks heavily unlikely that Rey will have training from Luke until late in the film, if at all. So doesn't that blast apart that idea?

I mean, I almost feel sorry wasting logic on this, the idea is so dumb and unlikely. But obviously, the two of them are going to fight the guards.
@Kylo Men

I agree with you. Pre-trailer, I kind of went along with the assumption that something would change Luke's mind, and he'd reluctantly train Rey. Pre-trailer, we also had no confirmation outside of a Lego box that Kylo was at all involved in the space battle over D'Qar.

But I'm sorry--after seeing that trailer, I am VERY doubtful that Luke trains Rey at all in TLJ after he figures out her "raw strength" in the Force. And we also have confirmation that Kylo participates in the battle of D'Qar...when we know that's super early in the movie (and when any sort of a training sequence for him might take place.)

They fight the guards.
@ISeeAnIsland

With the Biblical themes discussion that was back in the early days of this forum, Luke could be the angry Old Testament God who tries to keep the Fruit of Knowledge out of her hands. Does he go to Ache-to in good faith hoping he can find the well of knowledge (RotLA parallels) about what type of Force user/power Ben wields and then what he learns completely freaks him out into staying put. And how does that tie into what he was doing before with gathering lore and having ties to figures like LST?
@snufkin

I definitely see that as one possibility. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Luke is the one to burn the tree, so as to keep that knowledge away from Rey and/or Kylo.
@ISeeAnIsland

I've been thinking about this too. And it's intriguing to ponder how closely they'd apply the metaphor, if this is the way it goes.

Another way I could see it applying is that Kylo's Eve was the first to fall, urged by Snoke's serpent, and then Rey's Adam gets her share of this forbidden knowledge as well. And from Luke's point of view, the Power Puff Duo must be prevented from having access to something (tree of life) because that would make them even more dangerous.
@Darth Dingbat

I definitely can see Luke burning down the tree.
@Darth_Awakened

I don't think Luke is the one who burned the tree to be honest. From this shot of the trailer


Even though from the trailer it look like Kylo Ren is in crait with snowtrooper, what if that scene actually happen in ach-to and that not snowtrooper but first order flametrooper we see in the force awakens

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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by vaderito on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 10:58 am

Ok, I'm getting convinced that Kylo offers his hand to Rey after the Hut Explosion:


See orange-y/red-ish light on Rey? See the dust?


See the dust swirling behind Kylo? And some fire-like source of light?

It also makes sense narratively. Rey and Kylo are having a conversation - likely "Let the past die". Luke doesn't like it. gets angry. Hut explodes - likely Rey does it as we now know that she and Kylo can do it but Luke can't. Luke won't be full of understanding when that happens. But Kylo will. So his offering Rey his hand here makes sense.

What do you think?
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 11:39 am

“Please note:  For house keeping purposes, making the same post to multiple threads is prohibited. Let’s keep the discussion to a single thread.  
The discussion is already taking place here: http://reylo.skyforum.net/t597p700-the-last-jedi-trailers feel free to join it's interesting!
Thanks everyone!”
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Anakin Skywalker on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 2:28 pm

more I think about Snoke-Rey scene and as we think Kylo is there too, more I can't understand how they would escape, one thing is fight with PG but how can we imagine Snoke just standing there, watching all this and do nothing, especially after(if) they defeat PG.
and I don't believe there will be Snoke vs Kylo-Rey in ep 8. it's too soon for that
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by DarthRen on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 2:43 pm

@Anakin Skywalker wrote:more I think about Snoke-Rey scene and as we think Kylo is there too, more I can't understand how they would escape, one thing is fight with PG but how can we imagine Snoke just standing there, watching all this and do nothing, especially after(if) they defeat PG.
and I don't believe there will be Snoke vs Kylo-Rey in ep 8. it's too soon for that
@Anakin Skywalker

Snoke will be starstruck by the sheer raw power when Kylo and Rey will presumably slice up his elite praetorian guards. Tbh, I can imagine him cheering on them. Very Happy
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Guest on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 3:28 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@Anakin Skywalker wrote:more I think about Snoke-Rey scene and as we think Kylo is there too, more I can't understand how they would escape, one thing is fight with PG but how can we imagine Snoke just standing there, watching all this and do nothing, especially after(if) they defeat PG.
and I don't believe there will be Snoke vs Kylo-Rey in ep 8. it's too soon for that
@Anakin Skywalker

Snoke will be starstruck by the sheer raw power when Kylo and Rey will presumably slice up his elite praetorian guards. Tbh, I can imagine him cheering on them. Very Happy
@DarthRen

I’m not so sure about that. I did consider Snoke might be excited to have both Rey and Kylo under his thrall, but if they’re powerful enough together to take him down, I doubt he’d risk making Palpatine’s mistake. It’s got to be one or the other for him, unless there’s some way he can control them both.

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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by DarthRen on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 3:34 pm

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Anakin Skywalker wrote:more I think about Snoke-Rey scene and as we think Kylo is there too, more I can't understand how they would escape, one thing is fight with PG but how can we imagine Snoke just standing there, watching all this and do nothing, especially after(if) they defeat PG.
and I don't believe there will be Snoke vs Kylo-Rey in ep 8. it's too soon for that
@Anakin Skywalker

Snoke will be starstruck by the sheer raw power when Kylo and Rey will presumably slice up his elite praetorian guards. Tbh, I can imagine him cheering on them. Very Happy
@DarthRen

I’m not so sure about that. I did consider Snoke might be excited to have both Rey and Kylo under his thrall, but if they’re powerful enough together to take him down, I doubt he’d risk making Palpatine’s mistake. It’s got to be one or the other for him, unless there’s some way he can control them both.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I was joking, Wink

Snoke is far too smart for this but really wonder what he'll do if/when Kylo turns on him. Just standing there and watch, unless hes an illusion. Snoke seems to be powerful at least by torturing Rey like this. Reminds me a bit of what Kylo can do to people, freeze them but this seems even bigger deal. Palpatine had numerous contigency plans for Vader, his suit was designed to be weak against lightning. I wonder what he has in store if Kylo turns, because he already sensed his compassion for Rey. He seems like Palpatine, sinister character who has plans for any situation.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Anakin Skywalker on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 4:23 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
Mrs Ben Solo wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Anakin Skywalker wrote:more I think about Snoke-Rey scene and as we think Kylo is there too, more I can't understand how they would escape, one thing is fight with PG but how can we imagine Snoke just standing there, watching all this and do nothing, especially after(if) they defeat PG.
and I don't believe there will be Snoke vs Kylo-Rey in ep 8. it's too soon for that
@Anakin Skywalker

Snoke will be starstruck by the sheer raw power when Kylo and Rey will presumably slice up his elite praetorian guards. Tbh, I can imagine him cheering on them. Very Happy
@DarthRen

I’m not so sure about that. I did consider Snoke might be excited to have both Rey and Kylo under his thrall, but if they’re powerful enough together to take him down, I doubt he’d risk making Palpatine’s mistake. It’s got to be one or the other for him, unless there’s some way he can control them both.
@Mrs Ben Solo

I was joking, Wink

Snoke is far too smart for this but really wonder what he'll do if/when Kylo turns on him. Just standing there and watch, unless hes an illusion. Snoke seems to be powerful at least by torturing Rey like this. Reminds me a bit of what Kylo can do to people, freeze them but this seems even bigger deal. Palpatine had numerous contigency plans for Vader, his suit was designed to be weak against lightning. I wonder what he has in store if Kylo turns, because he already sensed his compassion for Rey. He seems like Palpatine, sinister character who has plans for any situation.
@DarthRen

at list I doubt he will stand and wait while Kylo and Rey are fighting his guards and trying to escape. if they really do escape (with or withought fight) I only can imagine if there isn't Snoke anymore, he will go somewhere, or something happens (explosion or resistance invasion on ship) and he would leave... otherwise I can't imagine Snoke fighting Kylo or/and Rey in that episode
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by special_cases on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 4:43 pm

Hi guys, my first post here - sorry for my English! Have been reading you for a long time, thank you for a lot of amazing stuff!

I enhanced Phasma's costume a few times, because you can see some things there (from BTS video it is hard to make it really brighter and there weren't bright colors). But you can see Kylo's red lightsaber from her costume in this trailer. It's better to look at it in slo-mo, enhanced gif, there you can see Kylo doing something with his lightsaber. It's clearly a red colour - not orange from fire.

I tried to take a pic, here it is:



What do you think? I guess it's possible and goes along with bothan-spy leak that Finn will be the one taking Phasma's arm and Kylo is the one killing her.

But I don't understand how timeline works for Act III at all if Kylo is on Crait with stormtroopers. I even thought that moment from Crait can be from early Act II - maybe he is looking for something there or he thinks that he will find Rey and Luke already on Crait (unlikely).

Considering he is limping in that scene, I don't know where he can get such injury. From Rey or Luke? Snoke? Anyway, it's poetic that he is limping in his last moments being Big Bad aka trying to be granpa Anakin.

Sorry for any mistakes!
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by PalmettoBlue on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 5:17 pm

@special_cases wrote:Hi guys, my first post here - sorry for my English! Have been reading you for a long time, thank you for a lot of amazing stuff!

I enhanced Phasma's costume a few times, because you can see some things there (from BTS video it is hard to make it really brighter and there weren't bright colors). But you can see Kylo's red lightsaber from her costume in this trailer. It's better to look at it in slo-mo, enhanced gif, there you can see Kylo doing something with his lightsaber. It's clearly a red colour - not orange from fire.

I tried to take a pic, here it is:



What do you think? I guess it's possible and goes along with bothan-spy leak that Finn will be the one taking Phasma's arm and Kylo is the one killing her.

But I don't understand how timeline works for Act III at all if Kylo is on Crait with stormtroopers. I even thought that moment from Crait can be from early Act II - maybe he is looking for something there or he thinks that he will find Rey and Luke already on Crait (unlikely).

Considering he is limping in that scene, I don't know where he can get such injury. From Rey or Luke? Snoke? Anyway, it's poetic that he is limping in his last moments being Big Bad aka trying to be granpa Anakin.

Sorry for any mistakes!
@special_cases

Wow! Thanks for posting. I need to find an enhanced gif in slow motion! This is a fascinating take on this.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Acritiqua on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 5:43 pm

It appears that Kylo going to Crait happens at the end, and I think that might lead to his confrontation with Leia at the end of the movie.

Maybe if Kylo is reaching out to Rey, it may be before then on the Supremacy. He is not leaving with Rey, he hasn't changed sides, but he doesn't want Snoke killing her. He knows that she won't leave without Finn so if he has to help with that he will. Basically he's giving them a free pass off his ship.

But after she is off the Supremacy, he goes back to his plan to invade the Rebels and put an end to them because he believes that is the right thing to do.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 5:48 pm

@Acritiqua wrote:It appears that Kylo going to Crait happens at the end, and I think that might lead to his confrontation with Leia at the end of the movie.

Maybe if Kylo is reaching out to Rey, it may be before then on the Supremacy. He is not leaving with Rey, he hasn't changed sides, but he doesn't want Snoke killing her. He knows that she won't leave without Finn so if he has to help with that he will. Basically he's giving them a free pass off his ship.

But after she is off the Supremacy, he goes back to his plan to invade the Rebels and put an end to them because he believes that is the right thing to do.
@Acritiqua

Seems realistic. Until now, that's the analysis that makes the most sense given how problematic this shot is for the timeline.

The only thing that bother me here is: why would Snoke let Kylo lead the troops on Crait after he:
1) Refused to crush Mama during the D'Qar space battle
2) Helped the girl to escape after the torture scene on Supremacy
scratch

And where is Snoke supposed to be after the explosion of Supremacy ? And if he's not there anymore, then who becomes the main villain leading the FO to victory?
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Acritiqua on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 6:06 pm

I was wondering if Snoke is momentarily incapacitated or if he is dead. Granted my idea is leaning towards Kylo becoming main villain.

My problems are the Crait scene with Kylo seems to be at the end. Snoke's torture of Rey seems to be earlier. I agree that the smoke and falling flame in the Kylo shot looks more like that in the Phasma shot.

I also noticed that Kylo's hair is more curled or wet looking in the shot where he has his lightsaber out from the teaser. I know hair analysis is a bad idea, but the flatter hair in the shot in which he's reaching out his hand seems to be from later? Maybe not on Ahch-to?
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by DarthRen on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 6:15 pm

Really doubt Snoke will be killed, it'a bit too soon. Unless Kylo is being made into a main villain, I know antis throw around a lot JJ's quotes about Kylo not being a fully formed villain. If Crait happens at the very end,then Kylo must have a damn good reason to be with FO. As @reylo1992 why would Snoke allow him to lead his forces, when he just bertrayed him.

I have to say, the idea that First Order in some form will have co-exists with the Resistance at the end seems intriguing. No strictly Light and Dark, not just Empire or New Republic which would be formed probably if the Resistance wins. If Kylo and Rey represent Dark and Light, maybe for the sake of Galaxy both has to be in power at the end. To have the full lasting effect on the Galaxy. Just throwing an idea.


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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 7:21 pm

@Acritiqua wrote:I was wondering if Snoke is momentarily incapacitated or if he is dead. Granted my idea is leaning towards Kylo becoming main villain.

My problems are the Crait scene with Kylo seems to be at the end. Snoke's torture of Rey seems to be earlier. I agree that the smoke and falling flame in the Kylo shot looks more like that in the Phasma shot.

I also noticed that Kylo's hair is more curled or wet looking in the shot where he has his lightsaber out from the teaser. I know hair analysis is a bad idea, but the flatter hair in the shot in which he's reaching out his hand seems to be from later? Maybe not on Ahch-to?
@Acritiqua

I tend to agree that the scenes with Kylo on Crait are toward the end. No way it happens at the beginning of the movie. He is leading troops there and we know that Crait is a Resistance base.

Kylo becoming the main villain pleases me but it depends on the circumstances. Then, I dont see the point of having him as "the person who show me my place in all of this" for Rey. The GA wouldn't accept it: it seems already pretty hard to convince people that Kylo is worth of her giben the many reactions to his hand offer.

Plus, it was completely unexpected to have the trailer revealing Snoke as the real villain and I am happy about this because it clarifies for the GA who is a real villain and who is an antagonist. I.e. showing Snoke torturing Rey the way he does sets a good comparison with the interrogation scene in TFA.

Plus, I bet that Snoke ain't stupid. Kylo already failed him in TFA and will  fail him in TLJ. Hard for me to think that Snoke would let Kylo lead the troops on Crait after he refused to kill both his mother and the girl. And Snoke incapacitated/dead...wouldn't make him a terrific villain although he is shown as a terrific villain in the trailer.  

And let's consider the option that Kylo would become the main villain in TLJ. It is possible because as Rian said "he is not Vader yet" so he could become. But we already know that he will be deeply conflicted and it won't be possible for him to kill Mama and the girl. Let's keep in mind that the Kylo from TFA didn't want to kill innocent people with SKB and didn't attend Hux's speech. Making Kylo becoming the main villain by the end of TLJ, it means that he must become a terrific villain ready to blow up systems with billions of innocent people to build his empire and rule the weaker beings.

So really I don't know what to think about this shot and this is what I imagine  in my attempt to reconcile these contradictions:

There is a confrontation between Snoke and Kylo after the explosion of Supremacy. Kylo makes it clear that he will never let Snoke again misdirect his life and would rather die from his hand. Snoke freeze Kylo, tells him that he had great plans for both of them and uses their long-time deep connection to become one with him. Thus, Snoke indeed uses Ben's power, gets what he wants and crush him at the same time like Han had foreseen. Then, Snylo would lead the troops on Crait, making Kylo the main villain of the ST against his own will. And therefore, Rey and Kylo would remain on opposite sides for the next movie. But both the heroine and the GA would be shaken by Ben's fate.

I don't know if I am right but let's keep in mind this. This ST is much about Darth Vader's legacy. I don't think this is pure coincidence that Snoke tried to corrupt Kylo by using Vader. Everybody seems to think that Kylo is the Vader's fanboy but...what if it appears that Snoke is the Vader's fanboy ?  Let's keep in mind that Anakin planed to kill Sidious and build his own Empire: had he succeeded, the galaxy would have been ruled by an extremely powerful, young and handsome emperor (which by the way provides another image in term of communication than a wounded, ugly and old Emperor like Sidious).

So what if this was actually the meaning behind this line "I will finish what you started". What did Vader begun? Vader had started to build an Empire by using the power of the darkness. The next step would have been to kill Sidious and take his place to become the Emperor. And he considered to have brought "peace, freedom and justice to his new empire". What if this was Snoke's plan from the very beginning?  Building the Empire that Vader intended to build by becoming the fearsome, young and handsome ruler of the galaxy? And who would make a better candidate to achieve this goal...than using Vader's spawn himself?

EDIT:

And since TLJ seems to have a lot of callbacks to ROTS, why not having a callback to this dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and then a fight between Snylo and Rey reminiscent of Anakin and Obi-Wn (since there was indeed callbacks to this fight in TFA) but this time Rey loses because Snylo is ready to kill her but Rey can't bring herself to kill Ben.

And this leads me to the following supposition. So Kylo apparently enters in a cave with the troops on lava. Some of us asked ourselves if the shot wouldn't take place on Mustafar. But what if the ground is actually meant to look like Mustafar...precisely because the final fight...is meant parallel the Mustafar fight?

And here one last small detail:
1) Kylo is coming into a cave with troops and he has his cape there

2) The troops could be the flametroopers of the FO as creepi0 suggested

3) And let's pay attention to that shot of Kylo:

It's just me or Kylo is wearing the f****ing cape in this shot?  Shocked    

Because providing that this is the case, that could change everything since it doesn't seem like he is wearing the cape in most of the scene of the movie. But we know that he will wear it for sure on Crait and he is entering the cave with troops who have weapons to set fire! So could it be possible that there is something to burn inside (maybe another Force tree) and that Kylo is facing Rey as everything is burning around them (since there is indeed the reflection of a blue lightsaber in his eyes)?

And Kylo...looks the hell like he is in a dangerous rawpowah mood there with his "I am gonna kill you" look, very reminiscent of this one by the way:



Yeah, it looks to me like a cape in that Kylo's pic.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by ReyofLightSide on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 8:23 pm

@special_cases wrote:Hi guys, my first post here - sorry for my English! Have been reading you for a long time, thank you for a lot of amazing stuff!

I enhanced Phasma's costume a few times, because you can see some things there (from BTS video it is hard to make it really brighter and there weren't bright colors). But you can see Kylo's red lightsaber from her costume in this trailer. It's better to look at it in slo-mo, enhanced gif, there you can see Kylo doing something with his lightsaber. It's clearly a red colour - not orange from fire.

I tried to take a pic, here it is:



What do you think? I guess it's possible and goes along with bothan-spy leak that Finn will be the one taking Phasma's arm and Kylo is the one killing her.

But I don't understand how timeline works for Act III at all if Kylo is on Crait with stormtroopers. I even thought that moment from Crait can be from early Act II - maybe he is looking for something there or he thinks that he will find Rey and Luke already on Crait (unlikely).

Considering he is limping in that scene, I don't know where he can get such injury. From Rey or Luke? Snoke? Anyway, it's poetic that he is limping in his last moments being Big Bad aka trying to be granpa Anakin.

Sorry for any mistakes!
@special_cases

Very interesting!
Where is Kylo limping? On Crait with the stormtroopers?
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by DarthRen on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 8:43 pm

@reylo1992 wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:I was wondering if Snoke is momentarily incapacitated or if he is dead. Granted my idea is leaning towards Kylo becoming main villain.

My problems are the Crait scene with Kylo seems to be at the end. Snoke's torture of Rey seems to be earlier. I agree that the smoke and falling flame in the Kylo shot looks more like that in the Phasma shot.

I also noticed that Kylo's hair is more curled or wet looking in the shot where he has his lightsaber out from the teaser. I know hair analysis is a bad idea, but the flatter hair in the shot in which he's reaching out his hand seems to be from later? Maybe not on Ahch-to?
@Acritiqua

I tend to agree that the scenes with Kylo on Crait are toward the end. No way it happens at the beginning of the movie. He is leading troops there and we know that Crait is a Resistance base.

Kylo becoming the main villain pleases me but it depends on the circumstances. Then, I dont see the point of having him as "the person who show me my place in all of this" for Rey. The GA wouldn't accept it: it seems already pretty hard to convince people that Kylo is worth of her giben the many reactions to his hand offer.

Plus, it was completely unexpected to have the trailer revealing Snoke as the real villain and I am happy about this because it clarifies for the GA who is a real villain and who is an antagonist. I.e. showing Snoke torturing Rey the way he does sets a good comparison with the interrogation scene in TFA.

Plus, I bet that Snoke ain't stupid. Kylo already failed him in TFA and will  fail him in TLJ. Hard for me to think that Snoke would let Kylo lead the troops on Crait after he refused to kill both his mother and the girl. And Snoke incapacitated/dead...wouldn't make him a terrific villain although he is shown as a terrific villain in the trailer.  

And let's consider the option that Kylo would become the main villain in TLJ. It is possible because as Rian said "he is not Vader yet" so he could become. But we already know that he will be deeply conflicted and it won't be possible for him to kill Mama and the girl. Let's keep in mind that the Kylo from TFA didn't want to kill innocent people with SKB and didn't attend Hux's speech. Making Kylo becoming the main villain by the end of TLJ, it means that he must become a terrific villain ready to blow up systems with billions of innocent people to build his empire and rule the weaker beings.

So really I don't know what to think about this shot and this is what I imagine  in my attempt to reconcile these contradictions:

There is a confrontation between Snoke and Kylo after the explosion of Supremacy. Kylo makes it clear that he will never let Snoke again misdirect his life and would rather die from his hand. Snoke freeze Kylo, tells him that he had great plans for both of them and uses their long-time deep connection to become one with him. Thus, Snoke indeed uses Ben's power, gets what he wants and crush him at the same time like Han had foreseen. Then, Snylo would lead the troops on Crait, making Kylo the main villain of the ST against his own will. And therefore, Rey and Kylo would remain on opposite sides for the next movie. But both the heroine and the GA would be shaken by Ben's fate.

I don't know if I am right but let's keep in mind this. This ST is much about Darth Vader's legacy. I don't think this is pure coincidence that Snoke tried to corrupt Kylo by using Vader. Everybody seems to think that Kylo is the Vader's fanboy but...what if it appears that Snoke is the Vader's fanboy ?  Let's keep in mind that Anakin planed to kill Sidious and build his own Empire: had he succeeded, the galaxy would have been ruled by an extremely powerful, young and handsome emperor (which by the way provides another image in term of communication than a wounded, ugly and old Emperor like Sidious).

So what if this was actually the meaning behind this line "I will finish what you started". What did Vader begun? Vader had started to build an Empire by using the power of the darkness. The next step would have been to kill Sidious and take his place to become the Emperor. And he considered to have brought "peace, freedom and justice to his new empire". What if this was Snoke's plan from the very beginning?  Building the Empire that Vader intended to build by becoming the fearsome, young and handsome ruler of the galaxy? And who would make a better candidate to achieve this goal...than using Vader's spawn himself?

EDIT:

And since TLJ seems to have a lot of callbacks to ROTS, why not having a callback to this dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and then a fight between Snylo and Rey reminiscent of Anakin and Obi-Wn (since there was indeed callbacks to this fight in TFA) but this time Rey loses because Snylo is ready to kill her but Rey can't bring herself to kill Ben.

And this leads me to the following supposition. So Kylo apparently enters in a cave with the troops on lava. Some of us asked ourselves if the shot wouldn't take place on Mustafar. But what if the ground is actually meant to look like Mustafar...precisely because the final fight...is meant parallel the Mustafar fight?

And here one last small detail:
1) Kylo is coming into a cave with troops and he has his cape there

2) The troops could be the flametroopers of the FO as creepi0 suggested

3) And let's pay attention to that shot of Kylo:

It's just me or Kylo is wearing the f****ing cape in this shot?  Shocked    

Because providing that this is the case, that could change everything since it doesn't seem like he is wearing the cape in most of the scene of the movie. But we know that he will wear it for sure on Crait and he is entering the cave with troops who have weapons to set fire! So could it be possible that there is something to burn inside (maybe another Force tree) and that Kylo is facing Rey as everything is burning around them (since there is indeed the reflection of a blue lightsaber in his eyes)?

And Kylo...looks the hell like he is in a dangerous rawpowah mood there with his "I am gonna kill you" look, very reminiscent of this one by the way:

@reylo1992

Not that fan of Kylo becoming the main villain, I must say this. Then the whole thing about connection, being a teacher and progression is outdone. I'm sucker for a compelling redemption arc and if Kylo gets only more evil. This rather depressing because Han's death was for nothing and Leia again gets nothing.

If that picture of Kylo being angry is from Crait, I officially have no idea what is going on there. Clearly against him is Rey with a blue lightsaber. You can see a reflection in his eyes.


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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 8:54 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:I was wondering if Snoke is momentarily incapacitated or if he is dead. Granted my idea is leaning towards Kylo becoming main villain.

My problems are the Crait scene with Kylo seems to be at the end. Snoke's torture of Rey seems to be earlier. I agree that the smoke and falling flame in the Kylo shot looks more like that in the Phasma shot.

I also noticed that Kylo's hair is more curled or wet looking in the shot where he has his lightsaber out from the teaser. I know hair analysis is a bad idea, but the flatter hair in the shot in which he's reaching out his hand seems to be from later? Maybe not on Ahch-to?
@Acritiqua

I tend to agree that the scenes with Kylo on Crait are toward the end. No way it happens at the beginning of the movie. He is leading troops there and we know that Crait is a Resistance base.

Kylo becoming the main villain pleases me but it depends on the circumstances. Then, I dont see the point of having him as "the person who show me my place in all of this" for Rey. The GA wouldn't accept it: it seems already pretty hard to convince people that Kylo is worth of her giben the many reactions to his hand offer.

Plus, it was completely unexpected to have the trailer revealing Snoke as the real villain and I am happy about this because it clarifies for the GA who is a real villain and who is an antagonist. I.e. showing Snoke torturing Rey the way he does sets a good comparison with the interrogation scene in TFA.

Plus, I bet that Snoke ain't stupid. Kylo already failed him in TFA and will  fail him in TLJ. Hard for me to think that Snoke would let Kylo lead the troops on Crait after he refused to kill both his mother and the girl. And Snoke incapacitated/dead...wouldn't make him a terrific villain although he is shown as a terrific villain in the trailer.  

And let's consider the option that Kylo would become the main villain in TLJ. It is possible because as Rian said "he is not Vader yet" so he could become. But we already know that he will be deeply conflicted and it won't be possible for him to kill Mama and the girl. Let's keep in mind that the Kylo from TFA didn't want to kill innocent people with SKB and didn't attend Hux's speech. Making Kylo becoming the main villain by the end of TLJ, it means that he must become a terrific villain ready to blow up systems with billions of innocent people to build his empire and rule the weaker beings.

So really I don't know what to think about this shot and this is what I imagine  in my attempt to reconcile these contradictions:

There is a confrontation between Snoke and Kylo after the explosion of Supremacy. Kylo makes it clear that he will never let Snoke again misdirect his life and would rather die from his hand. Snoke freeze Kylo, tells him that he had great plans for both of them and uses their long-time deep connection to become one with him. Thus, Snoke indeed uses Ben's power, gets what he wants and crush him at the same time like Han had foreseen. Then, Snylo would lead the troops on Crait, making Kylo the main villain of the ST against his own will. And therefore, Rey and Kylo would remain on opposite sides for the next movie. But both the heroine and the GA would be shaken by Ben's fate.

I don't know if I am right but let's keep in mind this. This ST is much about Darth Vader's legacy. I don't think this is pure coincidence that Snoke tried to corrupt Kylo by using Vader. Everybody seems to think that Kylo is the Vader's fanboy but...what if it appears that Snoke is the Vader's fanboy ?  Let's keep in mind that Anakin planed to kill Sidious and build his own Empire: had he succeeded, the galaxy would have been ruled by an extremely powerful, young and handsome emperor (which by the way provides another image in term of communication than a wounded, ugly and old Emperor like Sidious).

So what if this was actually the meaning behind this line "I will finish what you started". What did Vader begun? Vader had started to build an Empire by using the power of the darkness. The next step would have been to kill Sidious and take his place to become the Emperor. And he considered to have brought "peace, freedom and justice to his new empire". What if this was Snoke's plan from the very beginning?  Building the Empire that Vader intended to build by becoming the fearsome, young and handsome ruler of the galaxy? And who would make a better candidate to achieve this goal...than using Vader's spawn himself?

EDIT:

And since TLJ seems to have a lot of callbacks to ROTS, why not having a callback to this dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and then a fight between Snylo and Rey reminiscent of Anakin and Obi-Wn (since there was indeed callbacks to this fight in TFA) but this time Rey loses because Snylo is ready to kill her but Rey can't bring herself to kill Ben.

And this leads me to the following supposition. So Kylo apparently enters in a cave with the troops on lava. Some of us asked ourselves if the shot wouldn't take place on Mustafar. But what if the ground is actually meant to look like Mustafar...precisely because the final fight...is meant parallel the Mustafar fight?

And here one last small detail:
1) Kylo is coming into a cave with troops and he has his cape there

2) The troops could be the flametroopers of the FO as creepi0 suggested

3) And let's pay attention to that shot of Kylo:

It's just me or Kylo is wearing the f****ing cape in this shot?  Shocked    

Because providing that this is the case, that could change everything since it doesn't seem like he is wearing the cape in most of the scene of the movie. But we know that he will wear it for sure on Crait and he is entering the cave with troops who have weapons to set fire! So could it be possible that there is something to burn inside (maybe another Force tree) and that Kylo is facing Rey as everything is burning around them (since there is indeed the reflection of a blue lightsaber in his eyes)?

And Kylo...looks the hell like he is in a dangerous rawpowah mood there with his "I am gonna kill you" look, very reminiscent of this one by the way:

@reylo1992

Not that fan of Kylo becoming the main villain, I must say this. Then the whole thing about connection, being a teacher and progression is outdone. I'm sucker for a compelling redemption arc and if Kylo gets only more evil. This rather depressing because Han's death was for nothing and Leia again gets nothing.

If that picture of Kylo being angry is from Crait, I officially have no idea what is going on there. Clearly against him is Rey with a blue lightsaber. You can see a reflection in his eyes.


@DarthRen

I am not sure at all if that pic is from Crait with that form behind that looks like a tree. But still, that's intriguing enough to see Kylo entering in a cave on lava ground with troops that have material to set fire. If this is the case, then there is definitely something big happening that would stop unexpectedly his redemption path although he was on the right path.

And that makes the thing more tragic because it would be as if Kylo is meant to be Anakin in reverse but actually the tragedy repeats itself because Snoke wanted it so. And thus the Skywwalker family is once again at the lowest point...and maybe would need a Kenobi to help them.
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Re: TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

Post by Acritiqua on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 9:25 pm

I really dislike the idea of Snoke sucking Kylo's power or merging with him in any way and entirely robbing his character of agency and free will. I think that's a waste of Kylo's character. I would rather he kill Snoke (or Rey and he do it). If Kylo becomes main villain it doesn't necessarily mean he can't turn around and/or have an interesting relationship with Rey. It just wouldn't be an ending in which Rey and Kylo live happily ever after, and if I'm realistic with myself I don't think that ending is likely anyway.

I assume that Kylo is leading the invasion of Crait, or at least his part of it and doing so of his own free will. And it's at the end of the movie unless something about scene order can prove otherwise. So to me, it's a fact that I have to contend with in trying to figure out what is happening. It's not really a matter of what I want or like regarding Kylo but what his character seems to be doing near the end of the movie.

I'm also not convinced that Rey goes to Kylo for guidance. But it seems Kylo extends a peace offering or at least temporary truce and I see that as fitting with how I imagine his character. I never really believed he would just hate Rey forever and want to kill her. He feels compassion for her early in their association, he offers to teach her at the end of TFA without pushing the Dark Side even, and it make total sense that he will still be trying to reach out to her in some way.

The problem is working in how/why with this strange timeline.

Kylo is on Ahch-to and then leaves... I can't figure out if he and Rey leave together or separately. The easiest for me to imagine is that she leaves in his ship and he actually introduces her to Snoke and they had a plan about this. Luke warns it's not going to go the way Rey thinks.

Perhaps Chewie and his porg buddy leave on the Falcon for Crait later?

Somehow Rey gets out of the Snoke hold (there's an explosion due to Finn and Rose's work?) and reunites with Finn and they go to Crait.

Perhaps Rey and Chewie leave Crait near the end (when it's clear the Resistance has lost and needs to evacuate) but Leia stays there still coordinating things and so she meets with Kylo once he makes his way into the base.

In any case for Kylo it seems this may begin and end with Leia.

I personally didn't think anything new of Snoke from the trailer. I imagined him as being like he is one the trailer.
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