The Last Jedi Trailer(s): NO SPOILERS

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Post by Geralt_Riv on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 5:29 pm

@SkyStar wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't know how much you can trust the foreign language translations or subtitles at this point. We were mislead to believe that 'Jedi' in 'The Last Jedi' was plural, because that was how the translated versions interpreted it, when in fact it was supposed to be singular.
@Mana

Right. In the Russian trailer Luke doesn't even say - "this is not going to go the way you think", but "understand, the consequences will be unchangeable."
@SkyStar

In the Polish trailer Luke is saying: "The end will be different than what you expect". And the Rey's lines from the ending: "I lost my way. You need to help me finding the way." Smile

If you understand Polish the full trailer is here:
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 5:34 pm

@SkyStar wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't know how much you can trust the foreign language translations or subtitles at this point. We were mislead to believe that 'Jedi' in 'The Last Jedi' was plural, because that was how the translated versions interpreted it, when in fact it was supposed to be singular.
@Mana

Right. In the Russian trailer Luke doesn't even say - "this is not going to go the way you think", but "understand, the consequences will be unchangeable."
@SkyStar

Interesting...  As that could mean something quite different than the English line.

As a side note, I completely geek out over translation/localization stuff. Much of what I write for my job gets translated into other languages, so I have to write in English in a way to make things easier for translation, which means keeping a lot of additional things in mind on top of getting your point across and correct grammar.

@MrsWindu wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't know how much you can trust the foreign language translations or subtitles at this point. We were mislead to believe that 'Jedi' in 'The Last Jedi' was plural, because that was how the translated versions interpreted it, when in fact it was supposed to be singular.
@Mana

Right. In the Russian trailer Luke doesn't even say - "this is not going to go the way you think", but "understand, the consequences will be unchangeable."
@SkyStar
That’s a most intriguing translation - what consequences would he be referring to?  

@MrsWindu

Perhaps it ties into whatever it was that Rey and Kylo were talking about that Luke "doesn't like and tries to stop them" right before the hut explodes? Maybe they were discussing something involving an artifact or trying to open a holocron together or something?
@ISeeAnIsland

Honestly, that phrase is puzzling me. Is it possible that they couldn't think of a fitting translation and just put something different there? Can translators do that? Been thinking about that for days now, haha.
@SkyStar

The way this would work at my company is that we usually work with the same translation vendors on each project so that the vendors/translators have some familiarity with the project and thus some context when we send them the next batch of content to be translated. If they have a question about context, they're supposed to ask us, so that we can get an accurate translation.

Now, when we have a native speaker QA the translations, sometimes we do catch errors where they probably should have asked for context but didn't. We correct that when we catch it.

I will say that because of my own experience with localization, I'm hesitant to write off "The Last Jedi" plural translations as errors. It's possible, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if the translators have some additional context that swayed them towards that usage. That said, I don't think that Rian is trying to misdirect when he says that the "last Jedi" is singular and that it's Luke...but he does say that the context changes as the movie goes on, so perhaps that's something that the translators tried to capture. Obviously, they had to make a judgement call on singular/plural at some point, so they might have had a legitimate reason to go with the plural.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 5:58 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't know how much you can trust the foreign language translations or subtitles at this point. We were mislead to believe that 'Jedi' in 'The Last Jedi' was plural, because that was how the translated versions interpreted it, when in fact it was supposed to be singular.
@Mana

Right. In the Russian trailer Luke doesn't even say - "this is not going to go the way you think", but "understand, the consequences will be unchangeable."
@SkyStar

Interesting...  As that could mean something quite different than the English line.

As a side note, I completely geek out over translation/localization stuff. Much of what I write for my job gets translated into other languages, so I have to write in English in a way to make things easier for translation, which means keeping a lot of additional things in mind on top of getting your point across and correct grammar.

@MrsWindu wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't know how much you can trust the foreign language translations or subtitles at this point. We were mislead to believe that 'Jedi' in 'The Last Jedi' was plural, because that was how the translated versions interpreted it, when in fact it was supposed to be singular.
@Mana

Right. In the Russian trailer Luke doesn't even say - "this is not going to go the way you think", but "understand, the consequences will be unchangeable."
@SkyStar
That’s a most intriguing translation - what consequences would he be referring to?  

@MrsWindu

Perhaps it ties into whatever it was that Rey and Kylo were talking about that Luke "doesn't like and tries to stop them" right before the hut explodes? Maybe they were discussing something involving an artifact or trying to open a holocron together or something?
@ISeeAnIsland

Honestly, that phrase is puzzling me. Is it possible that they couldn't think of a fitting translation and just put something different there? Can translators do that? Been thinking about that for days now, haha.
@SkyStar

The way this would work at my company is that we usually work with the same translation vendors on each project so that the vendors/translators have some familiarity with the project and thus some context when we send them the next batch of content to be translated. If they have a question about context, they're supposed to ask us, so that we can get an accurate translation.

Now, when we have a native speaker QA the translations, sometimes we do catch errors where they probably should have asked for context but didn't. We correct that when we catch it.

I will say that because of my own experience with localization, I'm hesitant to write off "The Last Jedi" plural translations as errors. It's possible, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if the translators have some additional context that swayed them towards that usage. That said, I don't think that Rian is trying to misdirect when he says that the "last Jedi" is singular and that it's Luke...but he does say that the context changes as the movie goes on, so perhaps that's something that the translators tried to capture. Obviously, they had to make a judgement call on singular/plural at some point, so they might have had a legitimate reason to go with the plural.
@ISeeAnIsland

Fascinating stuff. I love seeing how things get translated. My husband freelance translates from home and asks me for help all the time (does this imply this? how do you pronounce this name?) It can get tricky, and meaning can get lost or added in the process.
I think the plural jedi was to leave things ambiguous since translators weren't sure. Maybe it makes it sound like "The Last of the Jedi," in some cases which could imply one or more people, but ultimately, that the Jedi will end.
Japanese trailer "If you make the wrong choice, everything will end" = "This is not going to go the way you think."
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 6:32 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't know how much you can trust the foreign language translations or subtitles at this point. We were mislead to believe that 'Jedi' in 'The Last Jedi' was plural, because that was how the translated versions interpreted it, when in fact it was supposed to be singular.
@Mana

Right. In the Russian trailer Luke doesn't even say - "this is not going to go the way you think", but "understand, the consequences will be unchangeable."
@SkyStar

Interesting...  As that could mean something quite different than the English line.

As a side note, I completely geek out over translation/localization stuff. Much of what I write for my job gets translated into other languages, so I have to write in English in a way to make things easier for translation, which means keeping a lot of additional things in mind on top of getting your point across and correct grammar.

@MrsWindu wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't know how much you can trust the foreign language translations or subtitles at this point. We were mislead to believe that 'Jedi' in 'The Last Jedi' was plural, because that was how the translated versions interpreted it, when in fact it was supposed to be singular.
@Mana

Right. In the Russian trailer Luke doesn't even say - "this is not going to go the way you think", but "understand, the consequences will be unchangeable."
@SkyStar
That’s a most intriguing translation - what consequences would he be referring to?  

@MrsWindu

Perhaps it ties into whatever it was that Rey and Kylo were talking about that Luke "doesn't like and tries to stop them" right before the hut explodes? Maybe they were discussing something involving an artifact or trying to open a holocron together or something?
@ISeeAnIsland

Honestly, that phrase is puzzling me. Is it possible that they couldn't think of a fitting translation and just put something different there? Can translators do that? Been thinking about that for days now, haha.
@SkyStar

The way this would work at my company is that we usually work with the same translation vendors on each project so that the vendors/translators have some familiarity with the project and thus some context when we send them the next batch of content to be translated. If they have a question about context, they're supposed to ask us, so that we can get an accurate translation.

Now, when we have a native speaker QA the translations, sometimes we do catch errors where they probably should have asked for context but didn't. We correct that when we catch it.

I will say that because of my own experience with localization, I'm hesitant to write off "The Last Jedi" plural translations as errors. It's possible, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if the translators have some additional context that swayed them towards that usage. That said, I don't think that Rian is trying to misdirect when he says that the "last Jedi" is singular and that it's Luke...but he does say that the context changes as the movie goes on, so perhaps that's something that the translators tried to capture. Obviously, they had to make a judgement call on singular/plural at some point, so they might have had a legitimate reason to go with the plural.
@ISeeAnIsland

Fascinating stuff. I love seeing how things get translated. My husband freelance translates from home and asks me for help all the time (does this imply this? how do you pronounce this name?) It can get tricky, and meaning can get lost or added in the process.
I think the plural jedi was to leave things ambiguous since translators weren't sure. Maybe it makes it sound like "The Last of the Jedi," in some cases which could imply one or more people, but ultimately, that the Jedi will end.

Japanese trailer "If you make the wrong choice, everything will end" = "This is not going to go the way you think."
@Cowgirlsamurai

Exactly. If I didn't have context, I would have gone with the plural as well for the exact grammatical reason. "The Last Jedi (singular)" means exactly the same thing as "The Last of the Jedi (plural)". If you don't know for sure, go with the plural because it will cover both possibilities.

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Post by Atenais on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 6:56 pm

@Forsythia wrote:
@Atenais wrote:Anyway, I want to ask if people already talked about how the title is being translated, in my country "the last Jedi" is in plural form.
It's been translated like that in many countries:
France: Les Derniers Jedi
Germany: Die letzten Jedi
Italy: Gli ultimi Jedi
Spain: Los últimos Jedi

It seems too big of a coincidence that all of them chose the plural form, when the first film already defined Luke as "the last Jedi" in the opening scrawl and the singular form would have been the obvious choice. Maybe the film title was meant to be ambiguous and they decided the plural made more sense for the film or maybe they were told the title was meant to be plural. If we get a flashback to Luke's Jedi Academy and Luke doesn't consider himself a Jedi anymore in the present time, his students could have been the last Jedi. Or maybe Rey becomes a Jedi and the title refers to her and Luke, because Luke then decides they will be the last Jedi.

There is a similar title problem with Return of the Jedi or Revenge of the Sith, because both are ambiguous. In Germany, both titles are in plural.
@Forsythia

I like how you pointed about the ambiguity. Sometimes things get lost in translation and they have to make choices. But these choices cause misinterpretations too. My friends think that the last Jedi (in plural) are Luke and Rey and that they are connected somehow.

But, as said @vaderito, "Foreign language translations are dead end. Nothing to see there. They are not clues or anything." I will not care for them anymore.
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Post by Night Huntress on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 1:14 am

that's why I prefer to read books and see movies in the original language. English and German aren't that much different and still... I read a few books in both language and the original is always better. They're are often some undertone you can't translate properly.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 3:01 am

@Geralt_Riv wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't know how much you can trust the foreign language translations or subtitles at this point. We were mislead to believe that 'Jedi' in 'The Last Jedi' was plural, because that was how the translated versions interpreted it, when in fact it was supposed to be singular.
@Mana

Right. In the Russian trailer Luke doesn't even say - "this is not going to go the way you think", but "understand, the consequences will be unchangeable."
@SkyStar

In the Polish trailer Luke is saying: "The end will be different than what you expect". And the Rey's lines from the ending: "I lost my way. You need to help me finding the way." Smile

@Geralt_Riv

Though our languages are quite different but I did recognize the word "konec" aka "the end" and something like "zgubila" which is "lost" Very Happy

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Post by Xylo Ren on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:51 am

Guys we read the trailer wrong.

The Last Jedi Trailer(s): NO SPOILERS - Page 5 22554865_2017373245171047_567148653780651399_n
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Post by Xylo Ren on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:36 am

I showed my mom the trailer for the first time last night and her jaw dropped at the end scene.

She was just like "WOW...WHAT? SHE TAKES HIS HAND?"

Her reaction was exactly the same as my sister, who said "SHE TAKES HIS HAND I SHIP IT"

Funny thing is, she doesn't. At least they don't show Rey taking his hand. But both of them came to the same conclusion after seeing it one time. It's like they didn't have to see Rey taking his hand to know that she will.

And my mom said I was right, that Kylo and Rey are going to start a new generation of Force Users that are not jedi. A type that will "be able to marry" as she says.

I love it Twisted Evil
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Post by Rimfaxe96 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 12:29 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:Guys we read the trailer wrong.

The Last Jedi Trailer(s): NO SPOILERS - Page 5 22554865_2017373245171047_567148653780651399_n
@Xylo Ren

Truth be told I totally expected Kylo vs wall(s). Laughing
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Post by DarthRen on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 12:43 pm

With all the talk about who is Snoke or Luke are talking to in the trailer based on subtitles and translations from other languages.

When Luke said "This is not going to go the way you think it's gonna go." If it's truly a male character and most likely Kylo. He was somehow able to throw off Luke to the ground, this will not go well with OT fans who acccepts only Luke whopping his a**. Kylo is weak dark side user, I hope he kicks some a** in the next movie beyond Praetorian Guards. Sick and tired of hearing how he's weak, emo, spoiled. We need bad***, sympathethic and strong Kylo.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 4:54 pm

Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi Trailer. Nice evolution of color in the background:
http://these-are-the-first-steps.tumblr.com/post/166684573408/hridi-kylo-ren-in-the-last-jedi
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 5:00 pm

Saw TFA 7 times. Beat me.

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Post by Atenais on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 5:49 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:Guys we read the trailer wrong.

The Last Jedi Trailer(s): NO SPOILERS - Page 5 22554865_2017373245171047_567148653780651399_n
@Xylo Ren

Now the trailer makes sense. Thanks for sharing! lol!
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Post by Kyla Ren on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 6:13 pm

I went to see Blade Runner 2049 last night and they showed the old TLJ teaser as one of the previews.  I was disappointed that they didn't show the new trailer. Sad  I mean, don't get me wrong.  It was cool to see the teaser, but I would much rather have seen the new trailer with all the Kylo scenes on the big screen. Smile  It also kind of puzzled me as to why they would show the old trailer as opposed to the new one.  Has anyone seen the new trailer at the movies yet?  I'm just curious.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 6:21 pm

Here is a seriously clueless and frankly dumba** article from a pretty well-trafficked fanboy site. Again somebody who has not been keeping up with what Rian, JJ, Larry and Adam have said, yet thinks he's a proper pop culture writer. And again with the total misreading of facial expressions and narrative cues from the trailer. It's breathtaking how bad this article is. That's the only reason I'm posting it. I mean the guy actually says that Kylo needs to "spill more blood" and kill his mother to make up for the mess of the character JJ made of him???????? Heads are going to truly explode come December.

http://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-kylo-ren-villain/
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Post by Moonjump05 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 6:27 pm

Yeah, the way some fans (of many different media) are totally unable to read facial expressions/tone of voice or whether a character is lying astounds me.

And that is just the blatant surface level stuff- no mention of music or frame composition or lighting.

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Post by ZioRen on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 6:34 pm

I've found that there's a huge section of fanboys that have very, very powerful blinders on about these particular things, bizarrely all at once in almost all cases: Kylo Ren MUST get eviller, Kylo Ren is a weakling who shouldn't have lost to Rey and now he's ruined as a villain and character forever, Rey is a Mary Sue and must be the daughter of Luke Skywalker because it's the only way to explain her Mary Sue-ness, Luke MUST wield his lightsaber or heads will roll, Luke must do various bad*** things and in no way in any respect should Kylo or Rey or anybody be shown to be stronger than him, Snoke must be Plagueis, the Knights of Ren must feature or the movie will be a failure.

I can't even begin to count how many fans I've run into who all spout these exact same things the exact same way. And the thing is, most either aren't paying attention or are willfully ignoring the evidence that nearly everything they want and expect very likely isn't happening. It's funny because with antis in places like Tumblr, you can see them starting to understand that they were wrong, thus the increased fit-throwing. But with these fans, they still aren't acknowledging or even trying to grasp that they were wrong. Many are still shouting all of these points like nothing ever happened, just as strong as they were back in 2015.

It's a strange phenomenon, really.
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Post by Moonjump05 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 6:49 pm

Yeah, the couple of real life conversations I have had about the trailer went eerily similar. Like exact same phrasing. And they were both talking points that had been resolved months ago at the latest. I understand not everyone follows along as closely as I do, but these are self proclaimed fans who are very sure of their views.

Neither man really wanted to debate with me, but the woman was much more open to what I was saying.
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Post by DarthRen on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 6:59 pm

My sister and mother who are fans [not like my brother and other sister] kinda sees it. My friends mostly believe Rey is Luke's daughter. Not mention that trailer proved Kylo is on the path to be a Sith [ even that Sith are not part of this trilogy and trailer showed confused Kylo] and that Kylo is trying to seduce Rey to the Dark Side of the Force [even if he told he wants to teach her the was of the Force, not just Dark Side].

It's like plain to see, unless people tend to ignore it or just are missing clues.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 7:08 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:Here is a seriously clueless and frankly dumba** article from a pretty well-trafficked fanboy site. Again somebody who has not been keeping up with what Rian, JJ, Larry and Adam have said, yet thinks he's a proper pop culture writer. And again with the total misreading of facial expressions and narrative cues from the trailer. It's breathtaking how bad this article is. That's the only reason I'm posting it. I mean the guy actually says that Kylo needs to "spill more blood" and kill his mother to make up for the mess of the character JJ made of him???????? Heads are going to truly explode come December.

http://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-kylo-ren-villain/
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Oh my! I laughed out loud  Laughing Some people are indeed going to hate The Last Jedi.
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Post by IoJovi on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 7:11 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:Here is a seriously clueless and frankly dumba** article from a pretty well-trafficked fanboy site. Again somebody who has not been keeping up with what Rian, JJ, Larry and Adam have said, yet thinks he's a proper pop culture writer. And again with the total misreading of facial expressions and narrative cues from the trailer. It's breathtaking how bad this article is. That's the only reason I'm posting it. I mean the guy actually says that Kylo needs to "spill more blood" and kill his mother to make up for the mess of the character JJ made of him???????? Heads are going to truly explode come December.

http://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-kylo-ren-villain/
@SoloSideCousin

I read the article and I can't stop laughing. JJ Abrams rushed his backstory? What backstory? There is none in TFA!!!! We know who's kid he is, and that's it. We have no idea why he is the way he is, or what trauma or tragedy caused it. Holy sith, I can't with this dude. Are people really that obtuse? I do have a fanboy friend who, like this guy, was UTTERLY CONVINCED Kylo's character was solely designed to fulfill the "Vader 2.0 requirement" for this trilogy. The day after the trailer I received a message from him conceding and congratulating me on calling everything we had discussed over the last two years. So this is proof that some people who had previous view like this dude can get it. Some just choose not to.

@Xylo Ren Rey and Kylo are definitely going to produce a new generation of Force users. You see, when a man loves a woman very much... (okay just kidding - not really though).. lol!

IoJovi
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Post by Birdwoman on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 7:14 pm

I believe the hard core traditional fans are going to hate this movie and will complain about it loudly for two years until the next movie. Which they will then hate also.

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Post by Birdwoman on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 7:21 pm

The puzzling thing I have run across with my IRL fanboy friends and online fanyboys....is this complete blind spot regarding Luke. Now, none of us know truly what is going on with him besides he is scared of Rey's power. But so many of them think that Luke is the same guy from the OT, who is going to go kick Snoke's a** and watch as his nephew get killed by Rey. They don't seem to be able to absorb that something is off with Luke and he is no longer the shining hero of the OT. I mean, the Luke in the OT would never disappear if his friends and family were in trouble. He would be in the fight already....not having people look all over the galaxy for him. So he is different and the serious blinders on some fans...it is going to be a shock to them.

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Post by Moonjump05 on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 7:25 pm

I still get variations of "the prequels suck" whenever I am involved in a Star Wars conversation. Seriously, it has been over 15 years, man. Let it go.

I think some fans enjoy complaining about Star Wars more than they like it. And will continue to complain about the ST while being completely oblivious to what is actually going on in the movies.
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