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Post by Forsythia on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 12:00 pm

Two new Pablo tweets I found interesting:

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram (NO SPOILERS) - Page 6 Pablo_13

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram (NO SPOILERS) - Page 6 Pablo_14

About the first tweet: Could this mean we will see Mustafar again in 8 or 9?

About the second tweet: Didn't Daisy already confirm it will be more ambiguous? Pablo's tweet sounds like a denial, unless he is saying the film is not like a Star Wars film (he didn't give an indisputable "no, that won't happen"). Or is he only denying the good & evil part, like if the characters become more gray and will do good and bad things, the films will still make clear who is good and who is evil at the end? But that's not what the person who asked the question meant, it sounded like they wanted absolutely no ambiguity (like all antis) and Pablo could have just given his standard reply "You'll find out in December". I'm just worried a bit about Reylo now, because that would always be based on blurred lines between good and evil.
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Post by DarthRen on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 12:32 pm

@Forsythia wrote:Two new Pablo tweets I found interesting:

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram (NO SPOILERS) - Page 6 Pablo_13

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram (NO SPOILERS) - Page 6 Pablo_14

About the first tweet: Could this mean we will see Mustafar again in 8 or 9?

About the second tweet: Didn't Daisy already confirm it will be more ambiguous? Pablo's tweet sounds like a denial, unless he is saying the film is not like a Star Wars film (he didn't give an indisputable "no, that won't happen"). Or is he only denying the good & evil part, like if the characters become more gray and will do good and bad things, the films will still make clear who is good and who is evil at the end? But that's not what the person who asked the question meant, it sounded like they wanted absolutely no ambiguity (like all antis) and Pablo could have just given his standard reply "You'll find out in December". I'm just worried a bit about Reylo now, because that would always be based on blurred lines between good and evil.
@Forsythia

It could be a standard thing but everyone close to the production of the movie said how the lines between good and bad blurs. I don't think Pablo ruled out this particular thing like "some sort of a middle ground" but then he was not fan of Han's portrayl in TFA and other things. He has his own opinions. I don't think this means anything bad for Reylo.

EDIT:I was talking about Reylo+Luke in general. Not like Hux or Snoke will be good guys or Leia and the Resistance bad. It's a question of choices for some of them.


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Post by Saracene on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 12:38 pm

I'd take that to mean that, broadly speaking, SW movies will always have a pretty clear divide between good and evil sides. Good side can be *flawed* and massively so but I doubt that, at any point, TLJ will be like, hey maybe Snoke and FO really are good for the galaxy and maybe the Resistance does need to be destroyed.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 1:11 pm

@Forsythia wrote:Two new Pablo tweets I found interesting:

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram (NO SPOILERS) - Page 6 Pablo_13

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram (NO SPOILERS) - Page 6 Pablo_14

About the first tweet: Could this mean we will see Mustafar again in 8 or 9?

About the second tweet: Didn't Daisy already confirm it will be more ambiguous? Pablo's tweet sounds like a denial, unless he is saying the film is not like a Star Wars film (he didn't give an indisputable "no, that won't happen"). Or is he only denying the good & evil part, like if the characters become more gray and will do good and bad things, the films will still make clear who is good and who is evil at the end? But that's not what the person who asked the question meant, it sounded like they wanted absolutely no ambiguity (like all antis) and Pablo could have just given his standard reply "You'll find out in December". I'm just worried a bit about Reylo now, because that would always be based on blurred lines between good and evil.
@Forsythia

On the first, there is a guy on Reddit with some credibility to his name, that we call Gangsta Rap Guy (can't write his real screen name here), and he just recently said that there are a lot more planets in TLJ than we think.  I would think that Mustafar could be one of these.  That is really interesting about there being all kinds of layers under Vader's castle.  RJ has said that Raiders of the Lost Ark was an inspiration for him for this movie.  The Ahch-to setting with the force tree and the ancient books seemed like the perfect place for some archaelogical adventure to happen.  But maybe it's not just Ahch-to. Very Happy

On the second, over the past almost two years, Pablo has shown a pretty strong dislike for anything ambiguous when it comes to villains.  He has admitted to preferring straight up bad guys like the Emperor and Jabba.  He has said enough to make me think that he is not a fan of the Kylo character.  Also, he has said things that have almost made him sound ... disgruntled? ... by how certain things were handled in the ST and perhaps how they are going to go in the future.  I am not on Twitter, so I have no record of his tweets.  But in the past JJ and AD have made statements about Kylo and about Han and Leia's parenting and just the increasing ambiguity and nuance of the ST, and Pablo has responded with tweets indicating that JJ and AD didn't know what they were talking about, when you gotta think that they really do know what they are talking about, since JJ wrote the script and directed the movie and Adam created the character.  Pablo seems to have more respect for Rian, because I think Rian collaborated more with the Storygroup than JJ did, but when everybody and their brother is saying that there will be ambiguity and dissolving of the line between dark and light except him, I personally think that he could be letting his personal bias show.

His answer here I think can be interpreted in a couple of ways.  The first is that he is just being snippy and basically intimating that the new movie will not be particularly Star Warsy.  He's certainly been comfortable in the past in letting his irritations out on Twitter, particularly towards JJ.  However, the fact that JJ will be returning for IX has probably quieted him up.

The second way I think that it can be interpreted is probably the way he meant.  Rian said that we would know who to root for by the end of the movie.  This tweeter asked if everything was being turned into ambiguous mush.  If we know who to root for at the end, there won't be mush because there will be some clear answers/directions by the end.  However, I have a feeling that the journey to getting to that endpoint will be pretty winding *and* I think some of the people who we will be rooting for at the end will be a surprise.  I even think our definition of what is the "true" way of the force will be redefined in some way ... but there will be some definition/clarity to it ... hence no mush.

I may disagree with a lot of Pablo's opinions are certain things, but the guy is anything but dumb and is a master at taking advantage of weaknesses in a question to give a sharp answer.  The guy here didn't ask a narrow question that would be hard to get around or would require a direct answer.  He asked about grey mush.  It won't be mush.  There will be actual signposts, but they might be really surprising and the support for those directing signposts might be based on factors never considered before or may be based on reinterpretations of old factors based on new information, like the ancient books or the secrets under Vader's castle.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 1:57 pm

Typical fanboy: I don't like ambiguous storytelling : (
Me: star wars has always been ambiguous AF, Patricia
C'MON GUYS, ANAKIN KILLED BABIES WTF. IF THAT'S NOT AMBIGUOUS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 2:25 pm

@RosiePancake wrote:
@Maria Antonietta wrote:Typical fanboy: I don't like ambiguous storytelling : (
Me: star wars has always been ambiguous AF, Patricia
C'MON GUYS, ANAKIN KILLED BABIES WTF. IF THAT'S NOT AMBIGUOUS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK
@Maria Antonietta


Thank The Force that it didn't choose Pablo or his typical fanboy friend as "The Chosen One" to write and direct the sequel trilogy lol!
@RosiePancake

I mean, the prequels are there to show that jedi aren't so good. The ot has a guy who redeems his bad father. Wtf. I bet these people smoke crack while watching it.
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 3:14 pm

@Maria Antonietta wrote:Typical fanboy: I don't like ambiguous storytelling : (
Me: star wars has always been ambiguous AF, Patricia
C'MON GUYS, ANAKIN KILLED BABIES WTF. IF THAT'S NOT AMBIGUOUS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK
@Maria Antonietta

Exactly this.

It seems that the typical fanboy and me have completely different view on what ambiguous is.
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Post by CienaRee on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 4:13 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Maria Antonietta wrote:Typical fanboy: I don't like ambiguous storytelling : (
Me: star wars has always been ambiguous AF, Patricia
C'MON GUYS, ANAKIN KILLED BABIES WTF. IF THAT'S NOT AMBIGUOUS THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK
@Maria Antonietta

Exactly this.

It seems that the typical fanboy and me have completely different view on what ambiguous is.
@Darth_Awakened
IMO,I guess this fan and Pablo have conveniently ignored the new canon material which makes the characters much more ambiguous hell the whole PT was GL making Anakin and his fall to the DS a more complicated/nuanced character/story(whether he succeeded at that is another thing).
Sorry Pablo and other fanboys it's not the 80s anymore we live in an age were people want more ambiguity instead of the simple black and white view,just because SW is a fairy tale doesn't mean it's not capable of doing that besides children tend to be much more perceptive and accepting of certain characters/plot lines that older people don't.


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Post by BigDeal2187 on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 4:25 pm

To say "Not all that is light is good, and not all that is dark is evil," and to say that Star Wars isn't an ambiguous grey mush -- these are not mutually exclusive concepts.

The yin and yang symbol only makes sense if you can distinguish the white from the black.  Otherwise it's just a grey circle.


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Post by Night Huntress on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 4:31 pm

I respect Pablo as part of the Story-Team and his tweets are quite entertaining (as much as I see of them here- I'm not on twitter).
But he seems to be stuck in the "old-fashoned" storytelling... a pity in my opinion.

Having "grey" characters is more interesting - take GoT for example... among other things, its the way some characters aren't simply good or bad that makes the story so fascinating. They were characters we hate of course but also those who seemed "bad" at first and turned out to be so much more in the end. And even the "good" ones made bad choices and so on.

I understand Snoke and the FO are "the bad guys" and Leia and the Resistance are the "good guys" but within those factions they can be a lot of different layers. And with the force it's whole different matter. I believe the old way the dark and the light side were explained will be mixed up.
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Post by vaderito on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 4:39 pm

I think that Pablo's answer matched the question which wasn't asked in the best of ways. Pablo has his POV on Grey and that POV may not be our POV which is more Yin Yang than Black+White=Grey. There's a difference between Yin Yang and Grey. So if someone'd asked, for example, whether we'll see more Yin Yang instead of Grey, his answer may have been different.

he has a problem with Grey and Grey Jedi. he has no problem with Filoni concepts such as Bendu, Mortis, etc.
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Post by Acritiqua on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 1:09 am

I think that Rey is going to have to determine right from wrong in cases in which it isn't easy to tell the difference. Kylo thinks he's doing the right thing. So it's not going to be a mushy gray IMO in the sense that finding what is morally right is consistently a Star Wars theme. So it's like with "refined Jedi sight" the ST will find it again through Rey primarily. I really don't believe that the ST will end with Rey and Kylo both as anti-heroes and maybe that isn't a very Reylo opinion. It's just that Star Wars doesn't really do that in general.

A distinction I see is that what is right and wrong isn't always something that's cut and dry. And perhaps one will make mistakes along the way (perhaps Luke has) but through it all the hero character finds a way to stay on the good side and bring further good/light to the universe. Maybe there is sometimes more than one solution that will get there. The balance the hero has within where they don't let their darkness rule them is kind of how they keep "winning."
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 1:43 am

@Acritiqua wrote:I think that Rey is going to have to determine right from wrong in cases in which it isn't easy to tell the difference. Kylo thinks he's doing the right thing. So it's not going to be a mushy gray IMO in the sense that finding what is morally right is consistently a Star Wars theme. So it's like with "refined Jedi sight" the ST will find it again through Rey primarily. I really don't believe that the ST will end with Rey and Kylo both as anti-heroes and maybe that isn't a very Reylo opinion. It's just that Star Wars doesn't really do that in general.

A distinction I see is that what is right and wrong isn't always something that's cut and dry. And perhaps one will make mistakes along the way (perhaps Luke has) but through it all the hero character finds a way to stay on the good side and bring further good/light to the universe. Maybe there is sometimes more than one solution that will get there. The balance the hero has within where they don't let their darkness rule them is kind of how they keep "winning."
@Acritiqua

Rey will be a hero but will have to face some decisions, maybe making some bad ones but essentially being a heroic figure. And if her outfit later on in the movie is anything to go by, they refer to it as Jedi-esque. Kylo is the byronic hero or anti-hero of this story. The most conflicted character, who pushes the plot the most of them all. I think it should be this way because having more than one heroes like that wouldn't work that well.


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Post by Anakin Skywalker on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 10:08 am

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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 11:31 am

@Anakin Skywalker

I like the background with Kylo and Rey's silhouette's. I think @EchoBase posted another print in another thread. I dunno how official these are, though.
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Post by EchoBase on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 12:30 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Anakin Skywalker

I like the background with Kylo and Rey's silhouette's. I think @EchoBase posted another print in another thread. I dunno how official these are, though.
@Rei of Sunshine

Yes, I posted it in the TLJ general discussion thread. Don’t know if they are official, but they were also framed like those.

Edit: here it is

https://twitter.com/daisyrbrasil/status/927234534139146245

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Post by DarthRen on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 3:24 pm

@EchoBase wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Anakin Skywalker

I like the background with Kylo and Rey's silhouette's. I think @EchoBase posted another print in another thread. I dunno how official these are, though.
@Rei of Sunshine

Yes, I posted it in the TLJ general discussion thread. Don’t know if they are official, but they were also framed like those.

Edit: here it is

https://twitter.com/daisyrbrasil/status/927234534139146245

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@EchoBase

Here is the source. It was apparently from Hobby Lobby and it has Lucas Films logo at the back.

https://kylorenema.tumblr.com/post/167130798536/yo

https://kylorenema.tumblr.com/post/167145386306/where-did-you-find-that-framed-piece-of-licensed

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/7axes7/can_anyone_confirm_if_this_is_an_official_poster/

Someone in the comments said it was done by Lucas Film's licensed artist Brian Rood. I guess, we can classify it as official artwork for TLJ. It looks good.
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Post by Kessel on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 3:58 pm

I'd really like a copy of that one "busier" print, but with just Rey and Kylo's silhouettes and the cosmic background.

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Post by vaderito on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 4:05 pm

@Kessel wrote:I'd really like a copy of that one "busier" print, but with just Rey and Kylo's silhouettes and the cosmic background.
@Kessel

YES! I hope they release just their heads and the cosmic background cause it's stunning. Is it me or I see burning mebers on her side reminding me of this:

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram (NO SPOILERS) - Page 6 Star-wars-the-last-jedi-shf-1018494-640x320

It appears the scene is based on Kylo's Hand Reachout.
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Post by nite0wl29 on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 8:04 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Anakin Skywalker

I like the background with Kylo and Rey's silhouette's. I think @EchoBase posted another print in another thread. I dunno how official these are, though.
@Rei of Sunshine

Yes, I posted it in the TLJ general discussion thread. Don’t know if they are official, but they were also framed like those.

Edit: here it is

https://twitter.com/daisyrbrasil/status/927234534139146245

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@EchoBase

Here is the source. It was apparently from Hobby Lobby and it has Lucas Films logo at the back.

https://kylorenema.tumblr.com/post/167130798536/yo

https://kylorenema.tumblr.com/post/167145386306/where-did-you-find-that-framed-piece-of-licensed

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/7axes7/can_anyone_confirm_if_this_is_an_official_poster/

Someone in the comments said it was done by Lucas Film's licensed artist Brian Rood. I guess, we can classify it as official artwork for TLJ. It looks good.
@DarthRen

Just checked Hobby Lobby's site and there's nothing relevant to TLJ on it as far as prints go. If I would've known this I would've checked in store earlier today...I'd love to have it!
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Post by Anakin Skywalker on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 10:20 pm

@vaderito wrote:

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It appears the scene is based on Kylo's Hand Reachout.
@vaderito

I thought about that earlier and sorry if you discussed it already

in Kylo's reachout hand scene, what could be previous? I mean did they fight and then stop-talk-reach out hand?
my main question is: are they with their lightsabers or without them, or just Rey has it? can we imagine that Kylo is holding lightsaber with left hand? it would kind of unnatural, or maybe he drops it (like sign of peace) and then reaches his hand?
whats are your thoughts?
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Post by vaderito on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 10:23 pm

@Anakin Skywalker wrote:
I thought about that earlier and sorry if you discussed it already

in Kylo's reachout hand scene, what could be previous? I mean did they fight and then stop-talk-reach out hand?
my main question is: are they with their lightsabers or without them, or just Rey has it? can we imagine that Kylo is holding lightsaber with left hand? it would kind of unnatural, or maybe he drops it (like sign of peace) and then reaches his hand?
whats are your thoughts?
@Anakin Skywalker

I'm going by smoke/fire/embers background more than their lightsabers. cause toys are always going to give them lightsabers. But the scene doesn't have to play out like that. or he pulls a Luke and throws his lightsaber. It's more dramatic and resolving.

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Post by DarthRen on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 10:32 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@Anakin Skywalker wrote:
I thought about that earlier and sorry if you discussed it already

in Kylo's reachout hand scene, what could be previous? I mean did they fight and then stop-talk-reach out hand?
my main question is: are they with their lightsabers or without them, or just Rey has it? can we imagine that Kylo is holding lightsaber with left hand? it would kind of unnatural, or maybe he drops it (like sign of peace) and then reaches his hand?
whats are your thoughts?
@Anakin Skywalker

I'm going by smoke/fire/embers background more than their lightsabers. cause toys are always going to give them lightsabers. But the scene doesn't have to play out like that. or he pulls a Luke and throws his lightsaber. It's more dramatic and resolving.

@vaderito

Originally I thought hand reaching scene will be earlier, but if this is based on the actually scene in some way, then Supremacy might be before Crait. Outfits, red background is mostly associated with FO, Kylo and Snoke in the trailer. Then, they either make some arrangement, pact or she refused him.
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